Ladder STABmons (the old one)

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canno

formerly The Reptile
>"weak as hell to priority"

>only guaranteed OHKO without rocks is 252 adamant Scizor's Bullet Punch

Yeah okay
Remember that Sylveon is going to be at -1 Defense because of Smash. If it doesn't smash, you don't even need to use priority - Sylveon is slow as shit, sitting at base 60. Only Aegislash might be outsped, but even if it is, it can OHKO with Bullet Punch after SR at -1, and Sylveon only 2HKO's with Earth Plate Judgement, while Aegislash KO's back with a strong Steel STAB. So yes, Smash Sylveon is weak to Bullet Punch. I wouldn't say priority in general (although ESpeed is going to do a number from any reasonably strong ESPeeder), but definitely weak to Bullet Punch and Steel-types in general.

As for whether Sylveon is broken or not, I don't feel like I've played enough STABmons in X and Y to say for certain, although I'm leaning towards not broken.
 
Please bear in mind that I have no experience (aside from lurking) with the STABmons tier and nothing I say has much substance behind it.
w/ Infiltrator
Timid, 252HP/4SA/252SP, @ Leftovers
-Venom Drench
-Oblivion Wing
-Sludge Wave
-U-turn
Why not Sludge Bomb over Sludge Wave? Venom Drench only works when the opponent is poisoned and Sludge Bomb has a better chance to poison. Moreover, there's no real reason to use Sludge Wave on anything without Sheer Force. Also consider Toxic Spikes if you don't have another candidate for them.

w/ Soundproof
Careful, 252HP/180A/76SD, @ Leftovers
-Horn Leech
-Leech Seed
-Ice Shard
-Spiky Shield

What does Abomasnow attempt to wall and how?
Boomburst. Why else have Soundproof? Also, Spiky Shield is for (ab)users of priority like ESpeed and Bullet Punch (and physical attacks in general).


Also, I haven't seen any mention of Pyroar in this thread. It seems like a capable Shell Smasher.

- Life Orb/Pixie Plate/whatever item
Hasty/Timid nature, Rivalry
- Shell Smash
- Boomburst
- Blue Flare
- Extreme Speed/Judgement
EVs: 4 Atk/HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe

As a Shell Smasher, Pyroar can take flying Ghosts and physical walls unlike Diggersby and can hit Steels better than Heliolisk. Boomburst is the most reliable and powerful Normal move in existence, while Blue Flare is its secondary STAB. Extreme Speed is for priority and Judgement is for coverage.


Other things I want to mention:
  • Mega Aerodactyl is a potent attacker with Tough Claws Brave Bird and Head Smash.
  • Mega Medicham appreciates Agility. (Also, M-Mawile gets Autotomize.)
  • Priority Moonlight Klefki. Yep. It gets recovery now.
 
Rivalry is not very reliable, i would rather use Moxie for boosting your attack and having stronger Extreme Speeds every turn.(Moxie happens even when you kill with special attacks).
 

Monte Cristo

Banned deucer.
>"weak as hell to priority">only guaranteed OHKO without rocks is 252 adamant Scizor's Bullet PunchYeah okayWhen something has all of one mon that can OHKO it at -1 defense univested without having to take a hit, and after a boost only one pokemon can tank a hit and OHKO back, I see that as banworthy.
aegis and exca always run a boosting item, adamant nature or both so those calcs are invalid. And tbh skarm, chansey and zong are great mons and wall it well
 
Sorry if it is blatantly obvious or I just skipped it, but what about MegaMon? Does Gyarados now get Water, Flying, and Dark moves? If so, this set wrecks:

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 188 Spd / 236 Atk / 84 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch / Knock Off

2strong

and now this is a thing:
Dedenne @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pickup
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Moonblast
- Volt Switch
- Grass Knot

Never doubt Dedenne.
Also, Homework!

Timid, 4HP/252SA/252SP, @ Icicle Plate
-Electrify
-Thunderbolt
-Judgment
-Volt Switch

Jolteon with Electrify is very powerful! Instant recovery in Volt Absorb and Electrify, coupled with Jolteon's high speed makes it difficult to beat, however it is possible. It has 24 PP, so watch out for it stalling you! I'd recommend to add on Toxic instead of Volt Switch, as it will be infinite Toxic-Stalling, with Toxic weathering the opponent and Jolteon being immune to whatever they throw at it! Thunderbolt is pretty mandatory, but I feel like it could be replaced with something else, but I don't know what. Icicle Plate should be Flame / Fist / Earth Plate in my opinion, as with Toxic Stalling, you can't hit Steel-types. I feel like of those Earth is the best, as it hits everything besides Skarmory, who is swiftly taken care of with Thunderbolt. Jolteon will be a huge threat in this Metagame, I have a feeling that Electrify might even be banned, but I don't really know yet. Overall, here are the changes that I think should be made:




    • Icicle Plate -> Earth Plate
    • Volt Switch -> Toxic

Timid, 252HP/4SA/252SP, @ Leftovers
-Venom Drench
-Oblivion Wing
-Sludge Wave
-U-turn

This set is...odd. Venom Drench only works with Poisoned Pokemon, so you should have some form of Poisoning on this set. I've been thinking about it, and I think that Venom Drench / Oblivion Wing / Venoshock / Toxic or Toxic Spikes is going to be very powerful. Not every single Pokemon has to have U-Turn / Volt Switch just because they have access to it, so. Oblivion Wing is obviously a mandatory STAB to have reliable recovery. Venoshock hits the poisoned Pokemon super hard, best used after you Venom Drench. The last slot is up to you, Toxic provides immediate Poison, but Toxic Spikes provides it in Two-Turns, but can be washed away. Crobat seems to be a very good Pokemon in this Meta, just need to be careful.
Changes:

  • Sludge Wave -> Toxic / Toxic Spikes
  • U-Turn -> Venoshock

Careful, 252HP/180A/76SD, @ Leftovers
-Horn Leech
-Leech Seed
-Ice Shard
-Spiky Shield

This set looks good, as it counters the various Boomburst users and also makes it immune to one of it's weaknesses: Bug Buzz. Leech Seed & Spiky Shield make a somewhat reliable form of passive damage to the opponent. Horn Leech is really good on Abomasnow, but I don't get why Ice Shard is even there. It hits Flying-types, yes, but it isn't bulky enough to take any of their hits and isn't strong enough to dish out much. I mean, this set is ok, but it isn't really the best. I see it outclassed by so much else, such as Venusaur who has Thick Fat from Mega Evolving and has access to all of this as well. I'd say Spore is much more useful to cripple switch ins and handle things better.
Changes:

  • Ice Shard -> Spore


Calm, 252HP/192SD/64SP, @ Leftovers/Tanga Berry
-Ingrain
-Baton Pass
-Spore
-Substitute/Giga Drain/Dazzling Gleam (assuming it will be able to learn this)

No. This set is downright bad. It looks horrible, but gradually gets better. Ingrain is bad on anything, just no. Being forced to stay in is just really bad. Don't do it. Make it an actual move that's worth a slot, such as Nasty Plot, Agility, or even Swords Dance. Just, not Ingrain. Spore is fine, as is Baton Pass. The last slot should be Horn Leech or Giga Drain, it doesn't matter, whichever one you'd like. Just switch between Calm and Careful depending on what you pick. Either of these provide recovery and don't let you become complete Taunt Bait. Overall, I think Celebi has better things to do than Baton Pass, but whatever.
Changes:

  • Ingrain -> Boosting Move
  • Calm -> Calm / Careful
  • Final Slot -> Horn Leech / Giga Drain


Adamant, 252HP/252A/4SD, @ Kangaskhanite
-ExtremeSpeed
-Power-up Punch
-Earthquake
-Sucker Punch/Crunch

Oh boy... Get ready for this. Seriously going to be freaking broken. Between great bulk, +2, Pseudo Choice Band, and +2 Priority... This thing will be scary. Literally more broken than Bibarel lol. This thing will get banned imo, as it is too strong. Literally, too strong. Oh, you resist it? Earthquake. Oh, you're immune to it? GET BIT BITCH. Easily the strongest in this metagame. There are no changes to this, it is too good.
 
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canno

formerly The Reptile
w/ Volt Absorb
Timid, 4HP/252SA/252SP, @ Icicle Plate
-Electrify
-Thunderbolt
-Judgment
-Volt Switch
This Jolteon set is pretty neat. The main problem this set has is with priority users, as it is frail, especially in the physical side, which is a problem considering Extreme Speed is pretty common. However, anything without priority is gong to have to play some nasty mind games with Jolteon. I wonder if Substitute could use a slash next to Volt Switch. Lovely Kiss always has a slot on anything that can use it, and it fits nicely with Jolteons set. BoltBeam coverage is really good, although the Fire Plate is also an option for shit like Ferrothorn who doesn't really care for Thunderbolt and can just set-up hazards. A Shell Smash set can be used over an Electrify set, but I think Heliolisk does it better. The only pokemon that I can think of that gives it competition is Thundy-T. While it is slower and doesn't have access to Judgement, it does have more bulk and is stronger, not to mention has a good secondary STAB to use. Not only that, but it has a usable physical attack for Superpower shenanigans if it needs to use that. However, Jolteon is faster and has that magnificent Normal-type to use. It's also not weak to SR which is a big bonus. Overall though, this set is pretty neat, although very reliant on predictions. As a leaving note, maybe it could run a SubPass like it could in Standard? It has Electrify to help with the SubPassing.

w/ Infiltrator
Timid, 252HP/4SA/252SP, @ Leftovers
-Venom Drench
-Oblivion Wing
-Sludge Wave
-U-turn
I'm not entirely sure what this set is trying to do to be honest. First of all, Sludge Bomb definitely deserves a slot over Sludge Wave due to the 30% chance of Poison. Secondly, outside of Sludge Bomb's poison chance, why are we running a special set when Crobat has pitiful Special Attack? I would definitely redo the set to have Gunk Shot (which not has 80 accuracy in Gen 6 and has 30% poison chance) and Brave Bird over Oblivion Wing. Yes, the 75% recovery is neat and everything, but a set abusing that is better off using Nasty Plot with Life Orb. Also, max speed / max attack is better imo. The extra bulk isn't worth losing the advantage of Crobat's amazing speed - the main reason to use it. Honestly though, I'm not digging Venom Drench in general. Yes, the -1 in defenses and speed is nice and everything, but I feel that it is a bit situational, and that Crobat can run something better in that slot like Defog or Toxic Spikes. A Coil set could be interesting as well.

w/ Soundproof
Careful, 252HP/180A/76SD, @ Leftovers
-Horn Leech
-Leech Seed
-Ice Shard
-Spiky Shield
At first I was deeply confused by this set. Why is Abomasnow not running Snow Warning? Then I realized that Soundproof blocked Boomburst, the go-to STAB for Normal-types and Sylveon. The main contender to block is Sylveon, as it also resists Earth Power Judgement, a common coverage move. The EVs look pretty specific, so I won't comment on them. Horn Leech and Leech Seed let Abomasnow get a lot of recovery. Ice Shard is for priority. I'm thinking that Protect is probably better than Spiky Shield, as it blocks status. The damage that it provides isn't that great anyways iirc, so I think that Protect is much better. Substitute or EQ is also an option over Spiky Shield / Protect - one gives you coverage while the other one protects vs status, and you can heal most of the health lost from sub via Leech Seed / Horn Leech. Soundproof also goes well with Sub, as it blocks Sound moves that bypass Sub and Roar.


PokemonMasterDebater's Set:
w/ Natural Cure
Calm, 252HP/192SD/64SP, @ Leftovers/Tanga Berry
-Ingrain
-Baton Pass
-Spore
-Substitute/Giga Drain/Dazzling Gleam (assuming it will be able to learn this)
I'm not really digging this set at all to be honest outside of a baton pass team. In a Baton Pass team it could work decently, but outside of it's not that great. Ingrain Pass is only good on Baton Pass teams because Baton Pass lets you bypass the whole "can't switch" part of Ingrain. Not much to comment on this - it works well on Baton Pass teams but not very good outside of them. A standard set could be something like Recover / Seed Flare / Psystrike or [insert support move here] / Baton Pass or U-Turn with similar EVs to standard / the set's EVs.

The Reptile's Set:
w/ Scrappy
Adamant, 252HP/252A/4SD, @ Kangaskhanite
-ExtremeSpeed
-Power-up Punch
-Earthquake
-Sucker Punch/Crunch
I'll just repeat what I said when I sent this to Eevee

This set is more or less theorymon, but it is literally a better version of its OU counterpart. It could run a Shell Smash set, but so can every other Normal-type. However, Kangaskhan is the only Pokemon that gets a Fighting-type Sword Dance that does damage. Add this with an ESPeed that breaks subs, and you get a huge threat. Sucker Punch is for Ghosts and even more priority, mainly against Ghosts. Crunch can be used if Sucker Punch is too unreliable for you (Shadow Claw can too, but Crunch has more BP). Earthquake rounds the coverage and helps against Aegislash and other Steel-types, as it doesn't trigger Kings Shield. Also, pre-mega form gives Scrappy ESPeed, which is neat.
The only thing I can say is that I'm not sure if max speed or max HP is better. ESpeed means that the extra speed isn't needed and Kanga has good bulk, but base 100 is nothing to scoff at.
 
I've never played STABmons before, but...

Talonflame@Focus Sash
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252+ Attack / 4 HP / 252 Speed
- Belly Drum
- Oblivion Wing
- Sacred Fire/V-Create/Flare Blitz
- Steel Wing/Extremespeed

Sash on a Drummer might sound crazy, but hear me out. The idea is to set up Belly Drum unscathed, then drop an Oblivion Wing on something to get full health. Then if an opponent brings in a priority user to counter, the Sash keeps you safe and you get health back when you kill them. Steel Wing for coverage, or ESpeed for opposing Talonflame or other priority users.

Whaddaya think?
 
Let me remind you all, Mega Evolutions are battle only form changes, so if a pokemon changes type through Mega Evolution (Gyarados or Ampharos), they don't get every move of their mega evolutions type (Dark or Dragon).

Arcticblast note: Mega Lati@s are as of yet mostly unconfirmed and completely unobtainable, so please do not bring them up.
 
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Looking through new Gen VI mons and finding a few more notables that haven't been discussed yet:

Meowstic
Holy crap Meowstic.
A rather underwhelming Prankster in standard metas, the addition of the Psychic type's massive support movepool is a huge boon for it. Priority Gravity, Guard Swap, Healing Wish, Heart Swap (with Psycho Boost at that!), Hypnosis, Power Swap, Psycho Shift... in addition to his previous access to Screens and Trick, he is serious contender for Prankster spots now. Unfortunately does not learn Baton Pass, so it can't abuse the plethora of priority boosting moves it gets.

Malamar
Mostly notable for the addition of Psycho Boost to his movepool, which combines with Contrary and Superpower to make for a potent mixed sweeper.

Carbink
Now has mostly reliable recovery in Moonlight, greatly assisting in both defensive and CM roles.

Klefki
Priority Charm (who needs Baby-Doll Eyes?) and Moonlight.

EDIT: Seriously though, Meowstic.
 
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I've never played STABmons before, but...

Talonflame@Focus Sash
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252+ Attack / 4 HP / 252 Speed
- Belly Drum
- Oblivion Wing
- Sacred Fire/V-Create/Flare Blitz
- Steel Wing/Extremespeed

Sash on a Drummer might sound crazy, but hear me out. The idea is to set up Belly Drum unscathed, then drop an Oblivion Wing on something to get full health. Then if an opponent brings in a priority user to counter, the Sash keeps you safe and you get health back when you kill them. Steel Wing for coverage, or ESpeed for opposing Talonflame or other priority users.

Whaddaya think?
I came up with one that would have a similar affect.
Talonflame @ Focus Sash
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Modest Nature
- Oblivion Wing
- Shell Smash
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power Fighting/Baton Pass
 
Potent, yes, but sylveon's boomburst hit's almost as hard (gets the same 1.33 boost as PZ), except with fairy type. which is insane.
 

canno

formerly The Reptile
Potent, yes, but sylveon's boomburst hit's almost as hard (gets the same 1.33 boost as PZ), except with fairy type. which is insane.
P-Z is faster than Sylveon though, which makes it much more suited for Shell Smashing imo.

Looking through new Gen VI mons and finding a few more notables that haven't been discussed yet:

Meowstic
Holy crap Meowstic.
A rather underwhelming Prankster in standard metas, the addition of the Psychic type's massive support movepool is a huge boon for it. Priority Gravity, Guard Swap, Healing Wish, Heart Swap (with Psycho Boost at that!), Hypnosis, Power Swap, Psycho Shift... in addition to his previous access to Screens and Trick, he is serious contender for Prankster spots now. Unfortunately does not learn Baton Pass, so it can't abuse the plethora of priority boosting moves it gets..
Meowstic is pretty neat, although it's best use is SpDef with Heart Swap to fuck with Sylveon. The other moves are pretty neat as well. Also, can we talk about Powder and how it's no longer safe to use Fire-type attacks on Pokemon? Unfortunately, most of the pokemon that have access to it don't really have room for it imo, but maybe someone like Escaviler can make use of a set that's U-Turn / Gyro Ball / Powder / Megahorn @ Insect Plate or something similar?
 

AWailOfATail

viva la darmz
Looking through new Gen VI mons and finding a few more notables that haven't been discussed yet:

Meowstic
Holy crap Meowstic.
A rather underwhelming Prankster in standard metas, the addition of the Psychic type's massive support movepool is a huge boon for it. Priority Gravity, Guard Swap, Healing Wish, Heart Swap (with Psycho Boost at that!), Hypnosis, Power Swap, Psycho Shift... in addition to his previous access to Screens and Trick, he is serious contender for Prankster spots now. Unfortunately does not learn Baton Pass, so it can't abuse the plethora of priority boosting moves it gets.
What about Trick Room for Meowstic? Since it now has 0 priority instead of -whatever (I think), it could see some use.

And I think I saw something about Eerie Impulse (lowers opponent's Sp. A by 2 stages, Electric). Maybe something like:

Rotom-W @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
-Eerie Impulse
-Thunder Wave
-Thunderbolt
-Hydro Pump

Also, Electrify + Volt Absorb/Motor Drive/Lightningrod is going to break the meta. Especially if they also get T-Wave (or Nuzzle). Which they do.
I mean, Lightningrod Zapdos (crap, according to Serebii it doesn't get it anymore) if any Lightningrod Poke can survive one hit, it'll use T-Wave and then just spam Electrify until its SpA is through the roof. *cough* Manetric *cough*
 
What about Trick Room for Meowstic? Since it now has 0 priority instead of -whatever (I think), it could see some use.

And I think I saw something about Eerie Impulse (lowers opponent's Sp. A by 2 stages, Electric). Maybe something like:

Rotom-W @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
-Eerie Impulse
-Thunder Wave
-Thunderbolt
-Hydro Pump

Also, Electrify + Volt Absorb/Motor Drive/Lightningrod is going to break the meta. Especially if they also get T-Wave (or Nuzzle). Which they do.
I mean, Lightningrod Zapdos (crap, according to Serebii it doesn't get it anymore) if any Lightningrod Poke can survive one hit, it'll use T-Wave and then just spam Electrify until its SpA is through the roof. *cough* Manetric *cough*
Trick Room is still -7 priority.

Also oh god Electrify+Electric immunity. Jolteon is going to be especially fun since it gets Electrify and Shell Smash. But Electrify is weak to priority.

And...I don't really see any use for Eerie Impulse, especially on something as slow as Rotom-W that is probably taking a hit before using it anyways. There's a reason no one uses Charm on anything, and when you have Boomburst Sylveon running around with Shell Smash, and even with no boosts that is going to hurt. Badly.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
A bit about the homework. I listed Ice Judgment on the Jolteon set as an answer to Ground-types that laugh at Electrify. Others have recommended Ground, Fighting, and Fire, however.

Extra credit question: Which type makes the most sense? Ice to hit Ground, Ground to hit Electric (that might try to capitalize on Electrify,) or Ground/Fighting/Fire for Steel?
 

Pikachuun

the entire waruda machine
It depends on what you are trying to hit. Need to hit Ground types or Grass types which both resist Electric? Ice is your best bet. Need to hit Specially Defensive Heatran? Use Ground for some delicious damage on something that otherwise would wall and phaze you. Ground also hits all Steel types but Skarm (which you hit with Tbolt anyway) and Bronzong/Bronzor (Not used too often). Fire hits the last two, but you're walled by Specially Defensive Heatran (again). The choice is yours, but I would pick Ground solely because of Heatran, with something else for Ground types.
 
To answer the extra credit, I think Ice is better. Ground types are more threatening to Jolteon, so eliminating them is a better idea. And, if really needed, Jolteon could use a 120BP Synchronoise to handle opposing electric-types. Also, all ground types are immune to Electrify, but not all electric types, and Ice Judgement can strike grass types that resist electric, as well as ground, while ground only provides notable coverage on electric.
 

canno

formerly The Reptile
It depends on what you are trying to hit. Need to hit Ground types or Grass types which both resist Electric? Ice is your best bet. Need to hit Specially Defensive Heatran? Use Ground for some delicious damage on something that otherwise would wall and phaze you. Ground also hits all Steel types but Skarm (which you hit with Tbolt anyway) and Bronzong/Bronzor (Not used too often). Fire hits the last two, but you're walled by Specially Defensive Heatran (again). The choice is yours, but I would pick Ground solely because of Heatran, with something else for Ground types.
You're also forgetting Ferrothorn, who won't give a shit about a neutral unSTAB move and the Steel / Bugs, but they can be hit by TBolt neutrally I guess. Forretress and Ferrothorn are important to hit imo because they can just set-up hazards on your face. While I do think that generally Ground is probably better due to hitting Heatran and other Electric-type SE, I think Fire definitely hits a lot more than just Bronzong.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
Does anyone know if Electrify changes the effects of Spikes, T-Spikes, Stealth Rock, and other status moves? That would be interesting, turning hazard setup on its head.
 

Pikachuun

the entire waruda machine
You're also forgetting Ferrothorn, who won't give a shit about a neutral unSTAB move and the Steel / Bugs, but they can be hit by TBolt neutrally I guess. Forretress and Ferrothorn are important to hit imo because they can just set-up hazards on your face. While I do think that generally Ground is probably better due to hitting Heatran and other Electric-type SE, I think Fire definitely hits a lot more than just Bronzong.
Of course I forget about Ferro and Bug/Steel types like Scizor and Forry. My bad, that's what happens when you don't double-check your posts I guess :P
 
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