STABmons Viability Rankings Thread v3 ✿

wishes

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STABmons Viability
Rankings
approved by Eevee General | taken over from The Reptile

Welcome to the STABmons Viability Ranking! Viability is ranked into six categories from best to worst: S, A, B, C, D, and E.​

In this thread you can discuss a Pokemon's ranking and if you think it should move up or drop down. If a Pokemon is not on the list, you can recommend it be added. Either way, please substantiate your claims when posting in this thread. Only well-thought arguments will be considered, so be prepared to back them up if questioned further.

Let's get to the ranks!

S Rank
Keldeo
Landorus-Therian
Sylveon

A Rank
A+

Aerodactyl
Charizard-Mega-X
Charizard-Mega-Y
Heatran
Lopunny-Mega
Pidgeot-Mega
Scizor-Mega
Serperior

A

Azumarill
Diancie-Mega
Ferrothorn
Garchomp
Gengar
Latios
Porygon2
Rotom-Wash
Slowbro-Mega
Terrakion
Tornadus-Therian
Tyranitar
Ursaring
Venusaur-Mega

A-

Blastoise-Mega
Braviary
Chansey
Klefki
Latias-Mega
Magnezone
Manaphy
Rotom-Heat
Sableye-Mega
Scizor
Slowbro
Slowking
Volcanion
Weavile

B Rank
B+

Celebi
Excadrill
Gyarados
Gyarados-Mega
Jirachi
Jolteon
Meloetta
Sableye
Skarmory
Snorlax
Starmie
Talonflame
Thundurus-Therian
Zapdos

B

Amoonguss
Bisharp
Dragonite
Hippowdon
Krookodile
Latias
Lucario
Mamoswine
Manectric-Mega
Mew
Raikou
Sceptile-Mega
Stoutland
Suicune
Swampert-Mega
Togekiss
Tyranitar-Mega
Vaporeon
Volcarona
Whimsicott
Yanmega

B-

Alomomola
Beedrill-Mega
Chandelure
Clefable
Cloyster
Cobalion
Crawdaunt
Dugtrio
Empoleon
Espeon
Forretress
Gardevoir-Mega
Heliolisk
Hydreigon
Infernape
Pinsir-Mega
Quagsire
Rhyperior
Tangrowth

C Rank
Alakazam
Alakazam-Mega
Aggron-Mega
Azelf
Bibarel
Breloom
Gastrodon
Gliscor
Heracross-Mega
Kabutops
Medicham-Mega
Metagross
Reuniclus
Scolipede
Sharpedo-Mega
Shedinja

D Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that have just enough potency to function in the STABmons metagame thanks to a small niche they hold. These Pokemon can't really threaten or check parts of the metagame outside their niche, or are so hindered in their role that another Pokemon almost always can do it better. Because of their flaws they may expose your team to unnecessary risk. These Pokemon rarely adapt with the metagame.

E Rank

Everything else.


「-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-」

Under debate:

Blacklisted:

Rules:
  • Post intelligently. Posts like "I think pokemon X should be in this tier" with no explanation will not be tolerated.
  • No flaming and be respectful.
  • Usage statistics may be used to support an argument or a claim, but don't base your ENTIRE argument around them. For example, you can't just say "Pokemon X shouldn't be this tier because they aren't used that often!"
 
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wishes

uwu
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Changes from the previous thread:
  • Hoopa-Unbound: A+ -> A
      • Hoopa-Unbound drops because its hype has fallen and people understand how to deal with it properly. While it is strong, its Speed and reliance on Sucker Punch leave it easy to take advantage of. Its coverage is great, but it's unable to deal with the threats it would like to. Plus, Sableye and Mega Sableye are rampant, making Hoopa-Unbound struggle in the current metagame.
  • Gyarados-Mega: A -> A-
      • Gyarados-Mega is still a threat; however, it's just currently not very good in the metagame. Thundurus beats it with ease, Azumarill is on the rise, it struggles to find set up opportunities with Serperior and Terrakion being on practically every team, and so on. The massive competition for a Mega forme is hard to justify.
  • Jirachi: A- -> A
  • Manaphy: A- -> A
  • Tornadus-Therian: A- -> A+
      • amazing pivot, powerful, never dies, etc
  • Latios: B+ -> A-
      • best defogger atm, keeps up offensive pressure, excellent pokemon
  • Klefki: B+ -> A+
      • okay this is kinda controversial but klefki is literally a godsend. provides spikes, a bulkier thunder wave than thundurus, has king's shield and moonlight to make it even better, it isn't a dead weight, can use fairy lock for antics, etc. it's one of the best pokemon in the entire metagame currently, and deserves a huge raise.
  • Braviary: B+ -> B
      • bad,
  • Goodra: B- -> C+
      • literally why would you use this ~_~
    • C+ Rank had the addition of:
    • Aggron-Mega
    • Azelf
    • Conkeldurr
    • Gothitelle
    • Hawlucha
    • Heracross-Mega
    • Hoopa
    • Hydreigon
    • Medicham-Mega
    • Moltres
    • Pangoro
    • Reuniclus
    • Scolipede
    • Victini
Changes up for discussion:
  • Weavile: A+ -> S
      • I believe Weavile has hit a point where the metagame is revolving around it. All of its counters can be slept with Dark Void, its coverage is impeccable, and it has priority to get around the usual Thundurus check if need be. It 2HKOes nearly everything, and what isn't 2HKOed is either a target for Parting Shot or put to sleep, as mentioned earlier. It needs dedicated checks, and it outspeed nearly everything. I feel that Weavile is more than worthy of S Rank, but still unsure.
  • Hippowdon: B+ -> A-
      • Tank, etc.
 
Changes from the previous thread:
  • Hoopa-Unbound: A+ -> A
      • Hoopa-Unbound drops because its hype has fallen and people understand how to deal with it properly. While it is strong, its Speed and reliance on Sucker Punch leave it easy to take advantage of. Its coverage is great, but it's unable to deal with the threats it would like to. Plus, Sableye and Mega Sableye are rampant, making Hoopa-Unbound struggle in the current metagame.
  • Gyarados-Mega: A -> A-
      • Gyarados-Mega is still a threat; however, it's just currently not very good in the metagame. Thundurus beats it with ease, Azumarill is on the rise, it struggles to find set up opportunities with Serperior and Terrakion being on practically every team, and so on. The massive competition for a Mega forme is hard to justify.
  • Jirachi: A- -> A
  • Manaphy: A- -> A
  • Tornadus-Therian: A- -> A+
      • amazing pivot, powerful, never dies, etc
  • Latios: B+ -> A-
      • best defogger atm, keeps up offensive pressure, excellent pokemon
  • Klefki: B+ -> A+
      • okay this is kinda controversial but klefki is literally a godsend. provides spikes, a bulkier thunder wave than thundurus, has king's shield and moonlight to make it even better, it isn't a dead weight, can use fairy lock for antics, etc. it's one of the best pokemon in the entire metagame currently, and deserves a huge raise.
  • Braviary: B+ -> B
      • bad,
  • Goodra: B- -> C+
      • literally why would you use this ~_~
    • C+ Rank had the addition of:
    • Aggron-Mega
    • Azelf
    • Conkeldurr
    • Gothitelle
    • Hawlucha
    • Heracross-Mega
    • Hoopa
    • Hydreigon
    • Medicham-Mega
    • Moltres
    • Pangoro
    • Reuniclus
    • Scolipede
    • Victini
Changes up for discussion:
  • Weavile: A+ -> S
      • I believe Weavile has hit a point where the metagame is revolving around it. All of its counters can be slept with Dark Void, its coverage is impeccable, and it has priority to get around the usual Thundurus check if need be. It 2HKOes nearly everything, and what isn't 2HKOed is either a target for Parting Shot or put to sleep, as mentioned earlier. It needs dedicated checks, and it outspeed nearly everything. I feel that Weavile is more than worthy of S Rank, but still unsure.
  • Hippowdon: B+ -> A-
      • Tank, etc.
I won't outright challenge the Klefki nom because I haven't had much experience with it directly, but I'm skeptical that the changes jump it up a full rank, seeing as how it's already very much strapped for moveslots. Its statline doesn't really seem suited for the kind of repeated walling that would warrant instant recovery, and ultimately, I don't see it doing anything new. I'd take A at a glance because IMO it's better as a supporter than people give it credit for, but A+ seems like a stretch.

I guess what I'm asking for is a sample set, and/or maybe a replay where it performs differently and better than it could in standard to the point that it would get A+.

Unfortunately I've not had enough experience with Weavile or Hippowdon to make a solid judgment, but they seem pretty reasonable. I wouldn't nominate Weavile for S, but I wouldn't contest it either.

Oh, and the VRs list Conkeldurr, Gothitelle, and Hydreigon twice.
 

wishes

uwu
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Well R.I.P this list....
Why? It's not official it's being changed (although I do hope it is!) and even then, this thread can still be used considering there's hardly any posts.

I won't outright challenge the Klefki nom because I haven't had much experience with it directly, but I'm skeptical that the changes jump it up a full rank, seeing as how it's already very much strapped for moveslots. Its statline doesn't really seem suited for the kind of repeated walling that would warrant instant recovery, and ultimately, I don't see it doing anything new. I'd take A at a glance because IMO it's better as a supporter than people give it credit for, but A+ seems like a stretch.

I guess what I'm asking for is a sample set, and/or maybe a replay where it performs differently and better than it could in standard to the point that it would get A+.

Unfortunately I've not had enough experience with Weavile or Hippowdon to make a solid judgment, but they seem pretty reasonable. I wouldn't nominate Weavile for S, but I wouldn't contest it either.

Oh, and the VRs list Conkeldurr, Gothitelle, and Hydreigon twice.
I'll do you one better!

http://hastebin.com/raw/nituhofati

Here's a team utilizing double Prankster TWave + Klefki Spikes. Pretty cool offensive team, and a little twist on what you typically see.
 

Funbot28

Porque yo soy tu veneno
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Ok now that it has been changes, the list needs to be redone. Here is what I can maybe see for S:

S Rank:
S+
Mega Altaria
Mega Loppuny

S
Sylveon
Mega Aerodactyl
Diggersby

S-
Sableye
Mega Scizor
Thundurus-I

Too many threats to even consider tbh :s
 

LL

DEFENSIVE SASH LANDO
is a Pre-Contributor
JS Weavile really needs to go to S because of how it hits hard as fuck with its STABs, checking a ton of common mons in this meta as well as having the great utility of parting shot as well as dark void behind it to deal with most answers to it.
 

Funbot28

Porque yo soy tu veneno
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
JS Weavile really needs to go to S because of how it hits hard as fuck with its STABs, checking a ton of common mons in this meta as well as having the great utility of parting shot as well as dark void behind it to deal with most answers to it.
With all the Espeed spam going to happen now, I really can't see Weav being S
 

LL

DEFENSIVE SASH LANDO
is a Pre-Contributor
With all the Espeed spam going to happen now, I really can't see Weav being S
"espeed span" is literally an argument against every single frail, offensive offensive pokemon in the VR, and it is one of the few problems that plague weavile. If weavile had no problems, then it would be banned lol.
 

Josh

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Tuning in to say that Weavile 100% is not S worthy. Its a great mon, and definitely a solid a+, but its simply not an S level threat. It's biggest problem is that Malt is on as many teams as Pdon is in Ubers these days, and Malt shits on it. No, it can't switch in on an Icicle Crash, but something that beats you on nearly every team is never good. Scizor, which is probably Weavile's best counter, and Keldeo, which is probably Weavile's second best counter, are both extremely common. Mega Slowbro actually switches in on Weavile safely, 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 125-148 (31.7 - 37.5%) -- 78.6% chance to 3HKO, as does Klefki and Skarm. I understand every mon has checks/counters because otherwise they'd be broken (see: Maero, because even Malt has checks), but the thing is most of Weavile's answers are super common and happen to be on teams even without accounting for Weavile. Hell, if someone wants to use Stall in the current meta (not that I'd advise it) Quagsire switches in safely on any set (unveil HP grass Weavile). I'm not saying Weavile is bad, but these negatives prevent it from being S in my STRONG opinion.

Sorry I know the new VR isn't up yet, just wanted to post this.
 

wishes

uwu
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Tuning in to say that Weavile 100% is not S worthy. Its a great mon, and definitely a solid a+, but its simply not an S level threat. It's biggest problem is that Malt is on as many teams as Pdon is in Ubers these days, and Malt shits on it. No, it can't switch in on an Icicle Crash, but something that beats you on nearly every team is never good. Scizor, which is probably Weavile's best counter, and Keldeo, which is probably Weavile's second best counter, are both extremely common. Mega Slowbro actually switches in on Weavile safely, 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 125-148 (31.7 - 37.5%) -- 78.6% chance to 3HKO, as does Klefki and Skarm. I understand every mon has checks/counters because otherwise they'd be broken (see: Maero, because even Malt has checks), but the thing is most of Weavile's answers are super common and happen to be on teams even without accounting for Weavile. Hell, if someone wants to use Stall in the current meta (not that I'd advise it) Quagsire switches in safely on any set (unveil HP grass Weavile). I'm not saying Weavile is bad, but these negatives prevent it from being S in my STRONG opinion.

Sorry I know the new VR isn't up yet, just wanted to post this.
Obviously not in the current metagame. It's not up for discussion of being S in the new metagame. It got nerfed massively.
 

Josh

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Diggersby to S
-extremely powerful priority
-0 safe switchins, knock off beats ghosts and fire punch/wild charge beats skarm. closest thing is lando-t
-incredibly threatening to prepare for

more importantly Diggers isn't even on here... uwot? was there a ban i missed? im guessing its just an oversight.


as a reply to below vvv yeah was gonna say a+ could also work, because its priority does have an immunity unlike malt, and it is kinda slow besides espeed (as well as not that bulky). an argument could be made for either.
 
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wishes

uwu
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Joshz, mostly an oversight lol..

But then, I don't know where to put it. On one hand, I want S, on another A+. Let's hear some thoughts before placing it imo.
 

Scyther NO Swiping

Washed up former great
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I agree with Diggersby to S. Incredibly powerful attacker, amazing movepool, very few safe switch ins.
I also don't see Porygon Z and Sylveon. I think Porygon Z for B+ rank and Sylveon for B- rank or something around there would suit them well. Sylveon could be lower, but I think they both definitely should be ranked.
Mega Venusaur for B rank - Its unranked right now, but it is an amazing mega altaria counter as well as something that is just able to function well in the metagame. It can run a variety of sets, and support its team in a variety of ways.
Mega Lopunny for B- rank - It is also unranked right now, but it still loses a lot with BD banned and is outclassed many times by other megas. However, it is able to hit extremely hard after a SD, now with Extreme Speed and good coverage moves.

Finally I would like to suggest Rotom-H for A or A- rank. It is able to counter many top tier threats such as Lando not carrying Stone Edge, Heatran, Altaria, Thundy, Ferro, Sab, Zard Y, Mega Scizor, Tornadus and others. It is also able to give support to its team with status in the form of lava plume burns or Nuzzle Paralysis as well as build momentum with volt switch.
 

EV

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There's absolutely no reason Diggersby and Thundurus should not be S. I actually think Kyurem can be A+ with how good Mega Alt is.

Also, please put "undecided" threats in a list so we know we need to rank them.
 

wishes

uwu
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Undecided:
  • Diggersby
  • Mega Lopunny
  • Porygon-Z
  • Sylveon
  • Mega Venusaur (per SnS)
I'll move Thund to S, but I coulda sworn we said to keep it A+ in our discussion q_q
 
Undecided:
  • Diggersby
  • Mega Lopunny
  • Porygon-Z
  • Sylveon
  • Mega Venusaur (per SnS)
I'll move Thund to S, but I coulda sworn we said to keep it A+ in our discussion q_q
How can you be undecided on Diggersby? Before the Shell Smash and Belly Drum ban, Diggersby and Mega Altaria turned Stabmons into Extreme Speed: The Metagame. Given that they both have access to Swords Dance and some incredible coverage moves, that hasn't changed all that much. I'm wholeheartedly supporting Diggersby to S.
 

wishes

uwu
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How can you be undecided on Diggersby? Before the Shell Smash and Belly Drum ban, Diggersby and Mega Altaria turned Stabmons into Extreme Speed: The Metagame. Given that they both have access to Swords Dance and some incredible coverage moves, that hasn't changed all that much. I'm wholeheartedly supporting Diggersby to S.
Oh it's very likely it'll be S Rank, and since there haven't been any objections, then I'll move it there. Speak now or forever hold your peace.
 
No. There are only five Pokemon, and I really don't see anything that is like screaming S+ rn. Diggersby is super amazing, but it's just not like PDon where it's above the rest. I'd be more inclined to have all of them S and Landorus-T in S- tbh.
I'm gonna sound like a naive idiot here but I haven't had any problems with Landorus-T. Is it S because of Roost and hazard stacking or physical Flying STAB or, most likely, a combination of the two?
 

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