STAB STABmons

This is a cool semi room team thats feels p good when I use it (i made it in 5 minutes tho).
:glastrier: :slowbro: :shedinja: :heatran: :rotom-mow: :clawitzer:
The idea is heatran + shed beat a lot a stuff as tran blankets a a lot of special attackers that threaten shed specifically fire moves while shed beats most chomps, drills, bulu, pert, koko, a bunch of other stuff and is a great momentum reverse with slow u turn and immune to all pivoting moves. Heatran also helps with ferro which shed cant hit. (Tran is annoying but almost always u turn against tran and it chips it out tho u can't use shed for a bit unless u fast u turn on a free switch.)Then I added claw cause thats was a mon taht I wanted to use and benefits from shed beating bulu nicely. Claw is slow so I added Tr support which also helps with gyara and zapdos. I still felt weak to those so I added rotom which is a soft check and it completes vulture with shed and is a nice seismitoad switch in. Finnaly I added glast which abuses TR and synergies amazingly with claw cause they share checks and sd glast just blows thru seis and like wise with claw busting bro. (Those are also like there only core that takes these on reliably which fail to beat rotom and non toxic seis)

Threats:
:tyranitar: annoying asf when paired with bulu cause it breaks thru my best CT but against u have to play aggressively and only 1 mon really lets it in(tran), but taunt means it can't heal and u can beat it quickly. For bulu glast is best bet but u just really gotta be aggresive.
:Nidoking:
Annoying 2 but ur breakers force it out u relaly just got to beat it before it beats u.

And thats all, hope u enjoy my team.
 
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drampa's grandpa

#BlackLivesMatter
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The current metagame is super centralized around a few powerful offensive threats, and anything that doesn't check or counter these Pokemon is probably trash.

The first three Pokemon I'd like to discuss are all Island Guardians, or Tapus. While they each have their own individual attributes that make them strong, there is one thing they have in common that deserves mentioning before I dive into each one, and that is the Surge abilities. They all summon terrain on switchin, and they all rely on this terrain for their power. Since at least one of these Tapus appear on almost every team due to how good they are what this effectively means is that matches frequently turn into Tapus revenging each other over and over again, with say Lele coming in on a Bulu, which switches out to a pivot/sack, which pivots Bulu back in, and then Lele switches to a pivot/sack, and gets pivoted back in. Anyone who watches any number of STABmons matches has seen scenarios like this crop up frequently, and the fact that all of Tapu Koko, Lele, and Bulu are incredibly difficult to switch into, especially mid-late game, turns this into a test to see whose team can bear the brunt of this one attackers hits longer.

Fini and all other terrain summoners (besides maybe Rillaboom) are obviously not broken and as such I'm ignoring them.

:tapu_bulu:
Tapu Bulu is the first of the three Island Guardians I will mention here. It's been a controversial figure in the metagame for quite awhile, and recently it has become, in my view, even more problematic than it was before recently. The rise of Garchomp has led to Bulu getting many opportunities to come in, while its wide coverage makes actual counters near nonexistent.

Bulu's easy access to priority and general ease setting up makes it a nightmare for almost any STABmons team. It has the old Extreme Speed issue: it's a strong-ass mon already, wants to maximize its power because it doesn't need to worry about outspeeding stuff much, and its main power attack is the same as its main sweeping/priority attack. Basically Grassy Glide is too spammable and condenses the set too much.

:tapu_lele:
Tapu Lele nukes everything in this metagame. Even AV Slowking isn't safe.

252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowking in Psychic Terrain: 191-225 (48.4 - 57.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO

Lele forces extreme measures in the builder if you don't wish to be vulnerable to it. You either need something like Slowking + a Dark type, Magearna + never getting chipped, or perhaps most practically: offensive pressure. Tapu Lele isn't that fast, so if there's no slow Pokemon it can come in on it won't do much

I've been focusing on the Specs set because that what terrifies me most, but let me be clear, it has other excellent sets including CM + 3A, Choice Scarf, and the rare double dance.

:tapu_koko:
Koko is probably the most common of any of these, however it is the one I least want banned. It has some very good and reliable counterplay that would absolutely be used whether it was in the metagame or not, most notably Excadrill, which has recently become probably the best offensive utility mon in the metagame. Its speed and power are excellent, but it cannot smash through walls in the same way Bulu and Lele can.

I can see the argument for Koko being centralizing. It does practically mandate an electric immunity (or resist if you're cocky) that isn't weak to Fairy. But those exist, and are good. Marowak-A, Amoongus(s?), and Nidoking are all good. Tapu Bulu can check Koko well and abuse its presence to knock stuff around, while SpD Bulu takes... a lot admittedly but isn't 2HKO'd by Fleur Cannon from full.

252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Fleur Cannon over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tapu Bulu: 288-340 (83.7 - 98.8%) -- not a KO

I'm not sold on Koko being the problem here, although I think if nothing else goes it may have to. I think right now it feeds on the unhealthiness of the metagame. My ideal way forward would be to look at other stuff and keep Koko in the back of our heads.

:weavile:
Weavile, and by extension Glacial Lance, has come up recently among the council. Personally I'm not sold on it being broken yet. Checks and counters such as Buzzwole, Tapu Fini, Magearna, and Tyranitar exist, and are absolutely not used solely for Weavile. Weavile struggles to get in and set up due to frailty, which it needs to do in order to reach its full potential with its best sets.

I want to see more arguments about Weavile and more replays of Weavile being broken from the pro-ban side.

IF we decide Weavile is broken I am on board with the train of thought that Glacial Lance is what should go. We already banned Mamoswine, and nothing except Glacial Lance is keeping it banned now. I could be swayed; it's always tricky to find the spot where you say a move is broken rather than the abusers.
 

Chazm

The "Subpar MnM Main"
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Hiya, I'm back to respond to council posts yet again. I've been playing STAB fairly sporadically since the last time a council post was made and after building for a good while I've mostly come to the conclusion that the metagame is not in a terrible spot, but it could use with some power decreeping. I am, however, opposed to suspecting anything during OMPL, so quickbans are preferred here.

Some discussion in the STABmons channel in the Other Metagames discord prompted me to be a little more methodical with how I view these mons however, so these will have more clearly defined points instead of being in a relatively relaxed ramble.

:sm/tapu koko:
Tapu Koko
Is it unhealthy?
: Yes - Tapu Koko does not really give a lot of people room to move in the builder, and significantly punishes any Ground-type that cannot answer it. Its blistering 130 Speed and ability to abuse common pivots like Corviknight, Toxapex and the Slowtwins makes it hard to offensively pressure Tapu Koko, and access to Rising Voltage makes it exceptionally hard to answer without a hard immunity. This would be fine in some cases if it weren't for Tapu Koko's ability to U-turn out of all of its bad matchups to bring in a deadly wallbreaker, i.e Weavile, Terrakion, Cinderace, Aerodactyl, Starmie, Keldeo... the list could very well go on and on, but that's just how easy it is to bring pivot Koko + an uncommon wallbreaker and just mess with defensive cores on a consistent basis. The power level of STABmons effectively means that trying to eliminate all of the wallbreakers that Tapu Koko pairs well with is a pointless process - therefore I believe Tapu Koko to be the culprit in this situation rather than a partner like Weavile.

Is it centralizing, and what range of counterplay does it have?: Yes; and honestly, not a whole lot. SpDef Seismitoad and Excadrill are capable of taking two Specs Fleur Cannons, but this does not really stop Boots Koko variants from just forcing them in and clicking U-turn. On the other hand, U-turn punishers like Garchomp and Ferrothorn are unsafe and either fail to stop Specs from just clicking STABs or fail to adequately stop Boots Koko from pivoting around. Whilst you can fit Rocky Helmet onto certain Grass types like Tangrowth and Amoonguss, this only really makes you safe vs Boots variants - Specs variants can very easily break past these down to the sheer power of Rising Voltage. If this wasn't enough for you, Tapu Koko's access to Roost allows it to recover damage from Rocky Helmet + Iron Barbs / Rough Skin, making the punish even more inconsequential for Tapu Koko.

Some sidenotes: Even in the case of a well prepared team, Tapu Koko is an absolute brute in the endgame. When the opposing Ground types are worn down or outright KOd, Tapu Koko simply becomes an unstoppable force that even Grass-types have to be scared of, something the likes of Regieleki can't really claim. An example of Tapu Koko cleaning up like crazy can already be found in the first week of OMPL - once LBDC's Amoonguss goes down, Tapu Koko simply starts spamming its STABs, taking out 3 mons in the process and allowing Shiba to win the game.

My conclusion: Quickban Tapu Koko. Tapu Koko absolutely needs to be removed - its range of counterplay is simply too thin and it simply supports too much of the offensive metagame to really be a healthy presence at the moment.


:sm/tapu bulu:
Tapu Bulu
Is it unhealthy?
: No, except for Sleep Powder variants - Tapu Bulu is exceptionally strong, and is probably the most overpowered on this list, but it doesn't actually have any aspects that make it poor to play around, it may simply just be a case that Bulu is too good at abusing the metagame. Tapu Bulu's issue is that its counterplay is pretty much entirely decided around the last slot - this can mean some unexpected options such as Megahorn could very easily mess up someone's gameplan vs Tapu Bulu and put them on the backfoot. Aside from this, Bulu is fairly straightforward to answer, and just mandates good Grass resists rather than specific Pokemon in the same way that Tapu Koko does.

Is it centralizing, and what range of counterplay does it have?: Yes - it is actually somewhat expansive in terms of checks, but the broken part about Tapu Bulu is that final slot - no matter which check you choose, you are always forfeiting a matchup against a different Tapu Bulu, and this is what makes Tapu Bulu banworthy for me.

So, given this narrative, the checks I am compiling are for different variants, in a list format. Pivots that don't actually beat Tapu Bulu, but can take hits to the point where Tapu Koko can go into a revenge killer, are seperated by a |. This also goes for Pokemon that are good pivots into Tapu Bulu but aren't actual counters given Tapu Bulu has the correct sequence. Here goes:
SD +...
Tapu Bulu @ Life Orb
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 56 Spe
- Grassy Glide
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- [Listed Move]

Strength Sap: :zapdos-galar: / :thundurus-therian: (PhysDef) / :aegislash: / :rotom-heat: / :tornadus-therian: (Pivot) / :tangrowth: / :victini: / :amoonguss: / :dragonite: / :slowking-galar: / :zapdos: | :corviknight: / :celesteela: / :buzzwole:
Play Rough: :aegislash: / :rotom-heat: / :victini: / :amoonguss: / :tangrowth: / :dragonite: / :slowking-galar: / | :corviknight: / :celesteela: / :tornadus-therian: (Pivot)
Stone Edge: :zapdos-galar: / :aegislash: / :tangrowth: / :amoonguss: / :dragonite: / :slowking-galar: (Needs 100 Def bare minimum) / :buzzwole: | :corviknight: / :celesteela:

Of these that check 3 variants:
:aegislash: / :tangrowth: / :amoonguss: / :dragonite: / :slowking-galar: (With defense investment) | :corviknight: / :celesteela:
(Niche options listed for completeness)
Sleep Powder: Simply imagine Strength Sap but the opponent has a chance to just completely lose their answer if you get a 2+ turn sleep
Megahorn: :zapdos-galar: / :thundurus-therian: (PhysDef) / :aegislash: / :rotom-heat: / :tornadus-therian: (Pivot) / :victini: / :amoonguss: / :dragonite: / :zapdos: | :corviknight: / :celesteela: / :buzzwole:

Choice Band [using Play Rough + Power Whip]: :rotom-heat: / :victini: / :amoonguss: / :tangrowth: / :dragonite: / :corviknight: / :celesteela: / :tornadus-therian: (Pivot)
Revenge Killers: :heatran: / :thundurus-therian: / :tapu lele: / :kyurem: / :melmetal:

The two things that stand out to me are the sets that check all 3 variants in one slot and Sleep Powder's ability to completely incapacitate those builds. This to me is something that might warrant a look into Sleep Powder itself, but Sleep Powder has not yet seen tournament usage from what I know, and therefore I will exclude it from this analysis. As for the Pokemon that check all 3 variants, the list is very limited, with two of these checks being very easy to push past (Aegislash, Dragonite) and two of them that are effectively incapable of properly answering Tapu Bulu (Corviknight, Celesteela). This leaves three Pokemon that can do it in one slot - this is pretty bad for a Pokemon with limited revenge killers, especially given that these Pokemon are not massively viable theirselves. However, the sets of Pokemon that check all 3 variants without suffering heavy chip are a bit larger, and not only that, they don't really end up overlapping that poorly.

My conclusion: Surprisingly, given the evidence above, you might think I hold a DNB position on Tapu Bulu, but I still lean towards quickbanning Tapu Bulu even after reviewing the evidence. A lot of these checks are not really answers in the long term, and given the correct partners, like Tapu Koko, Cinderace or Doom Desire Heatran, these Pokemon can very easily be overridden. Strength Sap is also slightly misrepresented in this case, where it is easily capable of staying alive and checking a multitude of threats throughout the game. The Sap set I think would actually be a really nice addition to the metagame if it weren't for its set variance, but alas, it adds up to Tapu Bulu being over the line for me.

:sm/weavile: :ss/calyrex-ice:
Glacial Lance / Weavile
Is it unhealthy?:
No - Weavile has not really had a lot of time to settle in the metagame at the moment. Whilst its answers are fairly limited, Weavile also doesn't have a whole lot of leeway to get in outside of certain pivot support, at which point Weavile still has to make a prediction. Weavile can often require quite a bit of support to get it operating at its maximum power - which whilst it is exceptionally powerful and is what I consider to currently be STABmons' best wallbreaker, it is not at the point where it is outright uncounterable. As for Glacial Lance, a case can be made for its unhealthiness in past abusers, which I have mentioned more reasoning down below.
Is it centralizing, and what range of counterplay does it have?: I don't really think Weavile is centralizing, but it does force the builder to go out of their way to try and find answers to it, so I would have to say Yes to this question. Most Weavile answers aside from PhysDef Pex (which is pressurable by Spikes, a wincon I've gotten multiple times with CB Weavile in roomtours) tend to be a little difficult to fit onto teams, but they are still reliable answers none-the-less. Checks like Magearna, PhysDef Scizor, Tapu Fini (I've been experimenting with Scarf recently, it's actually a pretty cool pivot), Heatran, Buzzwole - and of course, physdef Rotoms exist and do pretty well, but none of these are either long lasting or easily splashable onto a team. Tough one for me, I think Weavile needs more time.

My final verdict on Glacial Lance / Weavile is a little tough to decide honestly. I think that as a standalone element, Glacial Lance is not broken, but I would also like to mention that Mamoswine was a Pokemon we lost due to Glacial Lance. This ends up being a weird conundrum, where there have been Pokemon banned in the past due to the existence of a move and possibly new Pokemon becoming broken due to it too. I personally think the decision should be to wait for a few weeks after a Tapu Koko ban to properly evaluate Weavile or Glacial Lance in the current metagame, and then determine whether Glacial Lance or Weavile is the broken aspect. My vote goes to Glacial Lance - but is this truly worth it just to nerf one Pokemon?

:sm/tapu lele:
Tapu Lele
Is it unhealthy?
: No, honestly. Tapu Lele is to me the same way most wallbreakers are in STABmons; they're all very brutal Pokemon that can in theory 2HKO most Pokemon in the metagame, it just so happens that Tapu Lele is very consistent at doing this. Tapu Lele's rather mediocre base Speed also means it doesn't have very many openings that it can make by itself, which can make it rather inconsistent at being the breaker its often made out to be.
Is it centralizing, and what range of counterplay does it have?: Tough question. I would not say that Tapu Lele is centralizing enough, but it could indeed be centralizing once the power level of this metagame decreases a little. Whilst drampa's grandpa does mention that AV Slowking is not good enough of a resist, Boots Slowking can work fine. The major problem with it as a resist is that Specs Fleur Cannon can actually threaten to 2HKO Slowking if it opts in for the Defense investment, but thanks to how Regenerator works, it doesn't have to worry about this short term. Corviknight and Celesteela are both excellent answers if they opt in for more Special Defense investment too, and the likes of Magearna and Aegislash are both excellent short term answers. Not only this, but if Tapu Lele wants to get past other answers like Heatran and Ferrothorn, it needs to be nearly perfect on the prediction game. Whilst this is a pretty small list of checks, most of them are also counters, and it's not like there aren't other breakers in STABmons we are perfectly fine with being in the metagame with a small list of answers, like Thundurus-Therian, Aerodactyl and Zapdos-Galar.

My conclusion: Yeah I think this is a pretty obvious Do Not Ban from me. I don't think Tapu Lele performs nearly well enough in either matchups to be considered broken on either side of the spectrum - it is just a hilariously strong wallbreaker.

However, after addressing these concerns, I believe I have one more problem Pokemon not listed that could very easily get tipped over the edge if we aren't careful with how we go about this.

:sm/toxapex:
Toxapex
Is it unhealthy?
: Yes - this one is as simple as it being extremely frustrating to chip whilst also being a very intuitive pivot that just has general goodstuff moves on it. Ways of approaching Toxapex in STABmons are extremely limited; whilst Seismitoad is capable of trapping Toxapex, it is not actually capable of outdamaging Recover, often making it an unsuitable momentum sink. Other methods of counterplay like Rocky Helmet to punish Flip Turn often don't work due to Toxapex's access to Knock Off, effectively rendering these tactics inconsistent at best.
Is it centralizing, and what range of counterplay does it have?: No - Toxapex is likely to define the mold for defensive teams, and therefore wallbreakers will be attempting to find some way of exploiting it. Unfortunately, if Tapu Koko is removed, we may lose a good pivot to most (see: Skypex) variants, which may make approaching it very difficult, as it can simply just dodge most attempts to get momentum on it with Flip Turn.

My final verdict on Toxapex is likewise with Glacial Lance but with the same reasoning as Tapu Koko - Toxapex could very easily be too good of an enabler, but only time will tell if this actually ends up being true. If Tapu Koko stays however, I'd probably vote Do Not Ban if this was ever a test.

Onto miscellaneous mons I've been playing with;

:ss/starmie:
Starmie @ Choice Specs
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Spout
- Steam Eruption
- Psystrike
- Ice Beam / Thunder

Starmie! This cute starfish surprisingly takes its middling 100 SpA very far in STABmons, having very few true resists in the current metagame. Most Pokemon simply get blown away by an Analytic boosted Water Spout, and the few that don't tend to lose to coverage or lose to mid-term pressure. Some water resists like Toxapex and Seismitoad can attempt to pivot into Starmie, but Psystrike will put them in their place. Given its ability to pressure common Water resists, it happily pairs well with Strength Sap Tapu Bulu, who not only appreciates Grass-types being worn down or outright eviscerated, but also appreciates the amount of free switchins Starmie gives it.

:sm/scizor:
Scizor @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Protective Pads
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Gear Grind
- U-turn / Knock Off
- Roost
- Defog / Swords Dance / Sticky Web


Ever wanted to have your Corviknight actually beat Weavile as well as actually beat the things its supposed to check like Tapu Bulu? Well you might not have the same bulk that Corviknight does, but you sure as hell have a mon that can beat both Weavile and Tapu Bulu! Enter defensive Scizor, a Steel-type that I'm a little ashamed has gone under the radar. Defensive Scizor is excellent at dealing with some of the metagames biggest nuisances whilst also being a powerful attacker in its own right. It's also a pretty powerful blanket check, being able to 1v1 even things like Dragonite, Zapdos-Galar and other rising stars like Kyurem and Glastrier.
:ss/cinderace:
Cinderace @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Libero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fire Lash
- High Jump Kick
- Zen Headbutt
- U-turn / Gunk Shot

dumb HO variant (Cinderace) @ Life Orb
Ability: Libero
EVs: 152 Atk / 104 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Pyro Ball
- High Jump Kick
- Electro Ball
- Work Up


I am honestly surprised Cinderace has not picked up that much usage. Despite a weakness to Rocky Helmet Garchomp, Cinderace still manages to crack open most teams, especially those that tend to pick Seismitoad as their Ground-type, something that is quite easy to exploit by using Tapu Koko or Play Rough Zeraora. Between teams scrambling for Tapu Bulu resists and teams generally not packing good resists to Cinderace's coverage, Cinderace tends to get a few good switchins and is capable of burning through the opponent's team midgame. If burning through midgame is not your cup of tea however, try building a HO with this stupid set I picked up from Galar OU. It's dumb, but it works, trust me.

:sm/dragonite:
Dragonite @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Dragon Darts / Roost
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance


Dragonite is highly overlooked now that Rotoms have mostly faded away from STABmons, and it is unlikely that they will return any time soon. Even if they were to come back, Dragonite's excellent defensive utility even with a set like this is still there to stare teams down the sights. Between being an excellent blanket check for sweepers, to being a great Fire / Water / Grass check, this mon has tended to find more spots on my teams than ever before, and I think due to the current state of the metagame it establishes a great niche over other Flying-type competition like Corviknight and Gyarados.
 

drampa's grandpa

#BlackLivesMatter
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
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Fellow Stab-ers and Mon-ers,

It has been a fun ride leading this metagame, but my time doing so has come to an end. As time has gone by I unfortunately have not been able to dedicate as much time as I should to this position due primarily to real-world conflicts.

My fellow council member and one of our new room owners in the hills will be assuming the position. He has proven himself over and over, as a community member, other metagame leader, and STABmons council member. He has been the primary moving force on the council for months and I am extremely confident in his ability to help make STABmons the best it can be.

I will be remaining on the council for the time being. We will likely look for a replacement soon.
Thank you so much for all the support and all the amazing experiences you've given me leading this awesome tier.
:drampa:
 

in the hills

is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
Moderator
Thanks for all of the hard work drampa, I hope that I'll be able to continue helping STABmons grow and guide it in the right direction. First order of business, I made a new banner for the thread this morning, here it is:
1624239009493.png
I hope to get the Viability Rankings update out within the next few days, so I'll be back soon with updates soon!
 

in the hills

is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
Moderator
The STABmons VR has been updated and Sample Sets have been added for each Pokemon! This is a rather large update, so I'll highlight some of the more important and larger changes (rise of more than 3 subranks). Hope you enjoy the new changes!
Rises
Seismitoad: A to A+
Tapu Koko: A- to S
Corviknight: A- to A
Heatran: A- to A
Tapu Lele: B+ to A-
Tornadus-T: B+ to A-
Kyurem: B to B+
Slowking-Galar: B to A-
Weavile: B to A+
Blissey: B- to B
Buzzwole: B- to B
Cinderace: B- to B
Slowking: B- to B+
Terrakion: B- to B
Clefable: C to B
Porygon2: C to B-
Scizor: C to B+
Swampert: C to B
Volcarona: C to B-
Skarmory: UR to B
Nidoqueen: UR to B
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: UR to B-
Reuniclus: UR to B-
Gastrodon: UR to C
Bisharp: UR to C
Crawdaunt: UR to C
Salamence: UR to C

Drops
Tyranitar: S to A+
Ferrothorn: A+ to A
Garchomp: A+ to A
Latios: A- to B
Slowbro: A- to B+
Sylveon: A- to B+
Gengar: B+ to B-
Gyarados: B+ to B
Rotom-Heat: B+ to B
Tangrowth: B+ to B
Victini: B+ to B-
Amoonguss: B to B-
Blacephalon: B to B-
Dracozolt: B to B-
Mandibuzz: B to B-
Obstagoon: B to B-
Rillaboom: B to B-
Zapdos: B to B-
Diggersby: B- to C
Kommo-O: B- to UR
Pelipper: B- to C
Barraskewda: C to UR
:jirachi: Jirachi: C to UR
Latias: C to UR
Galarian Form
Moltres-Galar: C to UR
Shedinja: C to UR
Suicune: C to UR
Zarude: C to UR

Notable Changes:
Tapu Koko: A- to S
Tapu Koko sees a huge rise since the last update as it cements itself as the top Pokemon in the metagame due to its splashability, ability to fill the speed control slot, and raw power. Heavy-Duty Boots sets are phenomenal at generating momentum, and almost necessitate Ground-types on teams. While it is the sole S Pokemon, we do want to note that the difference between it and A+ is rather small, it just hedges out the rest of the metagame due to the aforementioned qualities.

Weavile: B to A+
The biggest rise on the VR, Weavile has launched itself to the forefront of the metagame due to its insane offensive capabilities. While this rise is massive, I don't think anyone would disagree that Weavile's Swords Dance and Choice Band sets are one of if not the most threatening thing in the current metagame.

Garchomp: A+ to A
This drop may come as a shock to some, but Garchomp has fallen off a little bit recently due to its weakness to offensive mons, namely Tapu Koko, Weavile, and Tapu Bulu. While it is still potent, it is difficult to fit on teams without another Ground-type to cover its weaknesses, which leads to somewhat constricted builds.

Heatran: A- to A
This isn't a huge change or anything, but I do want to highlight how potent Heatran is right now against common entry hazard removal. It makes it very difficult for almost every Defogger to remove hazards and makes progress against so many teams right now. I think Heatran will continue to rise in coming months.

Scizor: C to B+
Scizor was largely unexplored at the time of our last VR update, and has shown just how good it is as a Defogger in the current metagame. Additionally, it's one of the best checks to Weavile and Tapu Bulu in the current metagame, as it has the bulk and power to deal with them.

Skarmory: UR to B
Skarmory is a great alternative to Ground-type Spikers, which allows teams to take on more offensive roles with their Ground-types or free up moveslots. Steel/Flying is also just an insanely good typing right now and while it does face some competition from Corviknight's pivoting, its Spikes sets set it apart from the crowd.

Nidoqueen: UR to B
Nidoqueen is a phenomenal Ground-type and is arguably the best Tapu Koko check in the metagame right now, while being a really strong offensive presence with great coverage and Sheer Force boosted Shell Side Arm limiting its switchins. While it does have a strong offensive presence, it struggles to fit hazards on its sets without foregoing coverage, which is why it is only B rank right now.

Other Announcements
First off, Plas has joined our council! Plas is a long time player of STABmons and we're happy to have him on our team!

Quick announcement that the council has begun discussing Glacial Lance and will be voting on whether to restrict it or not in the next few days. This is an update from our previous watchlist a few months back, and is largely due to Weavile's increased presence raising our concerns like we somewhat expected it to. While Weavile is mostly the only current abuser, Kyurem is also potent with the move and Mamoswine is also currently banned solely due to the move. If we decide to restrict Glacial Lance, Mamoswine will be unbanned along with it. We'll post an announcement on our decision in the next few days. Thanks!
 

in the hills

is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
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:ss/calyrex-ice::ss/mamoswine:
Glacial Lance has been restricted from STABmons! Mamoswine is now unbanned!
As mentioned in my last post, the council has decided to restrict Glacial Lance via quickban and unban Mamoswine. After discussing it, the council unanimously agreed that the presence of Glacial Lance in the metagame was unhealthy on the metagame and constricted counterplay for physical Ice-types, particularly Weavile, too much. Glacial Lance's ban has allowed us to unban Mamoswine, who originally was banned due to spammable STAB moves in Precipice Blades and Glacial Lance and we feel that without these moves it will be a welcome re-addition to the metagame.

Tagging Kris to implement Glacial Lance's restriction and Mamoswine's unban.

Moving forward, we've heard complaints for Tapu Bulu and Tapu Koko to be banned, and will continue to assess their presence in the metagame but as of right now we do not have any plans to take action on them. I would love to run a suspect in the near future to get people more interested in the ladder, but nothing has been set in stone yet. Really love all of the activity with OMPL back again, hopefully that will continue, thanks for playing!
 

drampa's grandpa

#BlackLivesMatter
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:ss/azelf:
Click me for some sets :)

Azelf is far from the #1 Pokémon in this metagame; the vast majority of teams not built around it won't really want it. However despite not making the VR (yes this is a passive-aggressive post hyping my favorite... lake spirit thing cuz SOMEONE voted UR :puff::smogthink: love u tho) it can put in work on STAB teams due to its higher than base 110 Speed, good coverage, and adequate mixed offenses.

Azelf has nearly no walls. Not reliable ones that are actually run anyway*. Unfortunately you can't actually run 3-4 sets at once. Drain Punch allows you to break past Tyranitar and other Dark types along with certain Steels, mostly Heatran, and those two pink blobby things with too much SpD.

*Nobody is going to run something specifically for everyone's favorite embodiment of willpower. It's just not anywhere near common enough to be worth it.
:slowbro:
252 Atk Life Orb Azelf Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 182-216 (46.1 - 54.8%) -- 58.2% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Azelf Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 208-246 (52.7 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Azelf Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 140-166 (35.5 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Azelf Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 247-291 (62.6 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

:tyranitar:
252 Atk Life Orb Azelf Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 380-452 (94 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Azelf Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Chople Berry Tyranitar: 190-226 (47 - 55.9%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO
4 Atk Life Orb Azelf Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 317-374 (78.4 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

:heatran:
252 Atk Life Orb Azelf Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 198-234 (51.2 - 60.6%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Watch out for King's Shield!

:excadrill:
252 SpA Life Orb Azelf Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 432-510 (119.6 - 141.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Azelf Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 312-369 (86.4 - 102.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

:tapu_koko:
252 SpA Life Orb Azelf Photon Geyser vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Koko: 261-308 (92.8 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO


It also makes for an ok dedicated suicide lead. It's fast, gets Taunt, and can kill itself hard.

Here's a team which has Azelf on it and loses really hard to Specs Psystrike Tapu Lele + like any pivot! Maybe the Slowking should be PDef AV.
 
Last edited:
Love using Fell Stinger Scizor. Racking up kills with it feels so good.

:ss/scizor:

Scythar (Scizor) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Technician
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fell Stinger
- Dual Wingbeat
- Gear Grind
- U-turn

It does need team support but it's really fun to use
 
Hello guys, I come to present my team which reaches TOP 4
1625264927301.png


1625264057581.png
1625264080053.png

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 88 HP / 248 Atk / 4 Def / 168 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Surging Strikes
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
If you are not prepared with it, or at least you have a RH pokemon ... gg


Tenshi Hinanai (Nidoqueen) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Shell Side Arm
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock
I'm a bit weak to Tapu Koko, so it was necessary.

Yukari Yakumo (Thundurus-Therian) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Oblivion Wing
- Thunderbolt
- Taunt
- Nasty Plot
The best pokemon on my team. Under screens, leftovers and Oblivion Wing you become unstoppable. Has Taunt for Blissey transform. If you want to stop it, use a faster rock pokemon with enough power (like Terrakion or Aerodactile)


Grimmsnarl (M) @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Misty Explosion
- Taunt
He puts up screens and commits suicide. Nothing more to say.

1625263989958.png

Magearna @ Leftovers
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Aura Sphere
- Calm Mind
- Shift Gear
Sometimes I change his sets, but generally it serves to enter Weavile instead of sweeper.


Kingdra @ Leftovers
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 144 HP / 160 Atk / 40 SpD / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Darts
- Surging Strikes
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
Surging Strikes Sinper is very strong, it also abuses those Ferro that do not have plant attacks (Anchor Shot) or Toxapex Flip Turn.
Enjoy it...
 

in the hills

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Moderator
Heyo, I'm just gonna give you an update on stuff the council has discussed recently and my current thoughts on each. At the moment, we feel that the metagame is in a pretty good place, so I wouldn't expect any of these to be voted on any time soon (most likely not until after OMPL) unless community opinion shifts dramatically. On that note, expect another community survey sometime soon, we love hearing from you all!

Sleep Powder
Sleep Powder hasn't been discussed much at all (for some reason) but after bringing it up I think it's pretty universally agreed that sleep moves are uncompetitive in some capacity. While I personally would rather just full ban sleep, I haven't done enough research yet on the policy threads regarding this and I'm unsure if the community would agree with this sentiment. Targeting Sleep Powder in particular is another option, as its passable accuracy and rise in abusers lately (especially Tapu Bulu and Rillaboom) make it a far more tangible issue that can be addressed. I think if there's anything I'd personally want looked at in the metagame soon, it would be sleep as a whole.

Future Tiering
Outside of sleep, I think that it is important moving forward to be very careful in how we conduct our bans for a few reasons. The metagame is fairly stable and well developed right now, and any further potential bans on Pokemon may throw that stability completely out of wack. With BDSP coming in just 4 months, it's unknown how this will effect the gen 8 metagame, if at all, and I'd prefer to be prepared with a stable metagame ready to take on any new changes. While I will highlight specific Pokemon's importance or lack thereof in the metagame further down in this post, this isn't part of my reasoning for whether to ban them or not. I merely want to highlight why I think it is important moving forward to carefully examine the future of the metagame while we consider bans and not jumping the gun on things moving forward.

Tapu Koko
Tapu Koko is still a hot button issue here, and I think that there's definitely a difference of opinion between the community and council here. The council is pretty strongly in agreement that Tapu Koko is a healthy presence in the metagame, and while it can be difficult to check, especially without a Ground-type, counterplay for it most definitely exists and isn't difficult to fit on teams by any means. While most people choose to go with Seismitoad as their Tapu Koko counterplay, this is largely because of how splashable Seismitoad is and not because it's the only viable counterplay. Other Ground-types like Excadrill, both of the Nidos, Swampert, Gastrodon can make it very difficult for Tapu Koko to click its Electric moves, while Garchomp and Ferrothorn punish U-turn heavily. Choice Specs and Life Orb sets are the most borderline broken to me and I think if anything ever pushes it over the edge for me it'd be one of these two sets, though they aren't fool proof by any means. Choice Specs is particularly risky as it's very prediction reliant, while Life Orb is very easy to wear down, and both lose out on most of Tapu Koko's support potential (Life Orb especially as taking chip is devastating for Koko most of the time). I think that my opinion is more likely to change on this as time goes on than the rest of the council, but I do not speak for them here.

Tapu Koko's presence in the metagame has probably the largest impact of any Pokemon, as it nearly necessitates the use of a Ground-type and is one of the only things that remotely holds back offensive Flying-types at the moment (the fact that it loses to most of them after any chip says a lot to my later points). Banning Tapu Koko would undoubtedly be the biggest shift we've seen probably since the Dragapult ban, and would likely lead to a lot more bans. If we go down this route (which at the moment seems unlikely), it would be quite interesting to say the least.

Tapu Bulu
Tapu Bulu has also been a popular topic for months, and I'm neutral on the issue. Ultimately, I do not think that Tapu Bulu is broken, but its healthiness is somewhat questionable. I think that the revenge killing roles it plays are very good for the tier, but its strong coverage and bulk make defensively checking it very difficult. Sleep Powder sets are another issue, but I won't focus on them too much considering potential tiering on sleep. I think that Tapu Bulu is borderline overwhelming and I could see it going either way moving forward. As I mentioned before I would love to suspect test it at some point, but after the ladder stats from last month, I can say for certain there won't be any suspects while OMPL is going on due to decreased ladder activity.

Tapu Bulu's presence in the metagame is one that rivals Tapu Koko's, but potential action on Tapu Bulu has less of an impact with Rillaboom in the back to replace Tapu Bulu's most healthy qualities without being too difficult to check defensively. I could see Garchomp in particular largely benefiting from a potential Tapu Bulu ban, as Rillaboom cannot switch into Garchomp reliably at all, while some defensive Steel-types would dislike this shift.

Tapu Lele
Tapu Lele hasn't been discussed too much outside of a few people who like to bug me ;) (hi Pujo <3) but it's something that I think should be seriously considered for tiering action. While I'm not on board with banning it at the moment due to lack of evidence that it's broken (largely due to not being used much) I can definitely agree that it still seems broken on paper. I think that right now Tapu Lele hasn't been a super popular breaker is because of its awkward speed tier, which largely limits its capabilities against offensive teams, and Choice Scarf sets are not an issue for most teams to check. I think that Tapu Lele could become banworthy in the future (especially if there are other bans) and arguably is right now, but for now we will continue to keep an eye on it.

Zapdos-Galar
Zapdos-Galar is another thing on my radar, as frankly it has like 2 checks lol. While you can offensively pressure it to prevent it from setting up, checking it after a No Retreat is incredibly difficult. Tapu Koko and Thundurus-Therian are very shaky offensive checks, and defensive checks are limited as well. Toxapex and Slowbro can somewhat check it, while Zapdos, Aegislash, and Doublade are more solid counterplay. While discussing, drampa did bring up No Retreat as a potential ban, and while I'd love the idea of keeping Zapdos-Galar, I do not think No Retreat is an issue in the metagame outside of Zapdos-Galar due to other users being much worse and even borderline unviable. Zapdos-Galar is probably the threat I'd want banned the most outside of sleep personally.

Oblivion Wing
Oblivion Wing is something I've been against for a long time, but it was actually stresh who brought this up originally. The rise in offensive Tornadus-Therian and continued presence of Thundurus-Therian has put this topic back on the front burner, as it's pretty clear that Oblivion Wing is the issue here. Oblivion Wing makes defensively these two insanely difficult, as there's very few checks that can outdamage Oblivion Wing's recovery, especially if they ever have to recover. Tornadus-Therian is especially difficult to wear down as it can recover even more HP with Regenerator to continuously put checks in difficult situations.

Oblivion Wing isn't something that's ever been discussed publicly as far as I can remember, so I'd love to hear what others think of it as a move. Also, I think that if Oblivion Wing is banned, it is worth discussing unbanning Thundurus-I along with it. At the moment I'd lean towards keeping it banned due to Choice Band sets and Nasty Plot being a threat still, but I think the discussion is worth having.

This slate of issues is not particularly urgent, and I may end up making another community survey if we don't get much input. Please feel free to share your thoughts on these threats while we take time to consider our options moving forward.

On another topic, I have a few VR noms that I'd like to touch on since the metagame has mostly settled after the Glacial Lance ban
Tornadus-Therian: A- to A+/A

Tornadus-Therian is insanely potent right now as both a defensive pivot and a Nasty Plot sweeper. I'm not 100% sure on its placement yet but I think that it definitely is in need of a rise.

Weavile: A+ to A-
Not much to it, Weavile has fallen off harder since the Glacial Lance ban than I expected, though I believe it's still quite strong. Triple Axel being unreliable is something I think turns most people off from using Weavile now, especially with Ferrothorn and Rocky Helmet being common in this meta, but I think that Future Sight support makes Weavile a very strong breaker still. I think A- is fitting for it at the moment, but we'll see how that changes in the future.

Tyranitar: A+ to A
Tyranitar being A+ or A is something we were split on last voting slate, and I think I'm still not completely sold on it being A. It is undeniable that Tyranitar has been declining in use since the Spectrier and Clangorous Soul ban and while it does offer a lot of utility still, it has begun to struggle more with popular trends. Specially defensive sets are great for checking offensive mons still, but struggle with defensive pivots, while offensive sets struggle to check offensive Flying-types. I think Tyranitar is still great, but A might be more fitting for its current presence in the meta.

Dragonite: B to A/A-

While this may be an overreaction from me for such a large rise, Dragonite has been the clear winner for the post-Glacial Lance metagame and I strongly believe it's deserving of a large rise. Multiscale is an insanely potent offensive tool when combined with Heavy-Duty Boots and allows you to check even the strongest breakers in a pinch. Offensive sets are so scary right now and offer a more bulky substitute to Zapdos-Galar. Dragonite is also a fantastic check to Tapu Bulu and uses it as setup bait. All of this can be confirmed by the insane rise in usage it has seen since the Glacial Lance ban and its performance in those battles.

Other minor noms I'm less sold on/don't feel like explaining
B to B+
B to B-

B- to B
UR to B-/B
B to B+
B- to B
1626302353772.png
UR to C
:mew: UR to C
 

Pujo

Trip to heaven
is a Tiering Contributoris a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
Tapu Lele
Tapu Lele hasn't been discussed too much outside of a few people who like to bug me ;) (hi Pujo <3) but it's something that I think should be seriously considered for tiering action. While I'm not on board with banning it at the moment due to lack of evidence that it's broken (largely due to not being used much) I can definitely agree that it still seems broken on paper. I think that right now Tapu Lele hasn't been a super popular breaker is because of its awkward speed tier, which largely limits its capabilities against offensive teams, and Choice Scarf sets are not an issue for most teams to check. I think that Tapu Lele could become banworthy in the future (especially if there are other bans) and arguably is right now, but for now we will continue to keep an eye on it.
Funnily enough, even though I've been quite annoying in PMs about the absolute monster that Lele is, I really think Bulu and especially Koko at much bigger problems in this metagame. I see how Bulu is great at checking stuff like Koko and Garchomp, and overall a great addition to the metagame because of its ability to check Speed boosting sweepers with Grassy Glide, and act like a good offensive-defensive mon because of its great defensive capabilities.
However, I don't see how Koko is a good presence in this metagame. Its incredible offensive presence and access to one of the most stupid moves ever, being ETerrain boosted Rising Voltage, and great moves with important BP and giving it great coverage, with Fleur Cannon and Moonblast being able the most prominent ones, make it the worst Pokemon to switch into in this metagame, especially when it comes with U-turn, allowing it to switch out even in the face of its best checks, like the Nidos, for example. It is helpful because it can easily revenge kill a lot of big threats in this metagame, and also prevents some mons from being overall very difficult to deal with, so banning this would indeed cause very important changes in the metagame, but I really think it causes more harm than it helps the metagame be healthy.

Lele is still stupid as hell tho
 
Sleep Powder
Sleep Powder hasn't been discussed much at all (for some reason) but after bringing it up I think it's pretty universally agreed that sleep moves are uncompetitive in some capacity. While I personally would rather just full ban sleep, I haven't done enough research yet on the policy threads regarding this and I'm unsure if the community would agree with this sentiment. Targeting Sleep Powder in particular is another option, as its passable accuracy and rise in abusers lately (especially Tapu Bulu and Rillaboom) make it a far more tangible issue that can be addressed. I think if there's anything I'd personally want looked at in the metagame soon, it would be sleep as a whole.
I'd honestly love to yeet sleep. It's something we only did because OU did, and I think it's been pretty clear that that was the wrong choice across most OMs. I've been suggesting this for BH and MnM as well, for similar reasons. The fact that we have sleep clause and still needed to ban Lovely Kiss and Spore (and, before it got nerfed, dark void) on top of that should be all you need to know to realize the problems with this approach. In theory, we could keep slapping down the most viable sleep moves until eventually it stops being stupid because it's not viable enough to run, but at that point there's also not really anything being preserved by the clause either.
Tapu Koko is still a hot button issue here, and I think that there's definitely a difference of opinion between the community and council here. The council is pretty strongly in agreement that Tapu Koko is a healthy presence in the metagame, and while it can be difficult to check, especially without a Ground-type, counterplay for it most definitely exists and isn't difficult to fit on teams by any means. While most people choose to go with Seismitoad as their Tapu Koko counterplay, this is largely because of how splashable Seismitoad is and not because it's the only viable counterplay. Other Ground-types like Excadrill, both of the Nidos, Swampert, Gastrodon can make it very difficult for Tapu Koko to click its Electric moves, while Garchomp and Ferrothorn punish U-turn heavily. Choice Specs and Life Orb sets are the most borderline broken to me and I think if anything ever pushes it over the edge for me it'd be one of these two sets, though they aren't fool proof by any means. Choice Specs is particularly risky as it's very prediction reliant, while Life Orb is very easy to wear down, and both lose out on most of Tapu Koko's support potential (Life Orb especially as taking chip is devastating for Koko most of the time). I think that my opinion is more likely to change on this as time goes on than the rest of the council, but I do not speak for them here.
I think it's pretty clear that seismi, gastrodon, and swampert arent really effective koko counterplay, for one clear reason: Tapu Koko doesn't run grass knot. At any point, Tapu Koko could easily run a set to delete them, and the fact that it doesn't shows they aren't really the concern of Koko players. As far as ground type answers, Nidoking and Nidoqueen are more reliable, but they're really hard to fit onto most teams because they're not really that good atm, and Garchomp is far more threatened by Koko than Koko is by it. It also doesn't help that pokemon like Rotom-H are not very good in the current meta, and while Amoongus can answer, if Koko U-turns on it Amoongus gets forced out by a lot of pokemon you really don't want to give free turns to.

If I had to point to an actually limiting factor for Koko that discourages you from clicking Rising Voltage freely, it would be Bulu and Excadrill. Bulu effectively 5x resists the attack and can heal off part of the damage without ceding any momentum, and Excadrill has reliable recovery and doesn't really fear any of Koko's moves. Both are also instantly threatening and quite splashable, which is IMO pretty much the main thing in the way of Koko being completely broken in practice. Ferrothorn is also common enough to be a factor, but generally I find it mostly just slows down Koko's winning sequences enough that the rest of your team has a chance to win first rather that beating it in the long term.
Zapdos-Galar
Zapdos-Galar is another thing on my radar, as frankly it has like 2 checks lol. While you can offensively pressure it to prevent it from setting up, checking it after a No Retreat is incredibly difficult. Tapu Koko and Thundurus-Therian are very shaky offensive checks, and defensive checks are limited as well. Toxapex and Slowbro can somewhat check it, while Zapdos, Aegislash, and Doublade are more solid counterplay. While discussing, drampa did bring up No Retreat as a potential ban, and while I'd love the idea of keeping Zapdos-Galar, I do not think No Retreat is an issue in the metagame outside of Zapdos-Galar due to other users being much worse and even borderline unviable. Zapdos-Galar is probably the threat I'd want banned the most outside of sleep personally.
If I had to diagnose one threat outside of the Tapus as unhealthy, this would be it. We've all seen how in OMPL matches it can turn a game around from one side having a significant upper hand to the other side winning given just a bit of good positioning, and while it's movepool isn't *that* deep, stuff like Mach Punch and Stomping Tantrum are enough that it still makes painful guessing games. There's not a ton else to say here imo.
 
I'd honestly love to yeet sleep. It's something we only did because OU did, and I think it's been pretty clear that that was the wrong choice across most OMs. I've been suggesting this for BH and MnM as well, for similar reasons. The fact that we have sleep clause and still needed to ban Lovely Kiss and Spore (and, before it got nerfed, dark void) on top of that should be all you need to know to realize the problems with this approach. In theory, we could keep slapping down the most viable sleep moves until eventually it stops being stupid because it's not viable enough to run, but at that point there's also not really anything being preserved by the clause either.

I think it's pretty clear that seismi, gastrodon, and swampert arent really effective koko counterplay, for one clear reason: Tapu Koko doesn't run grass knot. At any point, Tapu Koko could easily run a set to delete them, and the fact that it doesn't shows they aren't really the concern of Koko players. As far as ground type answers, Nidoking and Nidoqueen are more reliable, but they're really hard to fit onto most teams because they're not really that good atm, and Garchomp is far more threatened by Koko than Koko is by it. It also doesn't help that pokemon like Rotom-H are not very good in the current meta, and while Amoongus can answer, if Koko U-turns on it Amoongus gets forced out by a lot of pokemon you really don't want to give free turns to.

If I had to point to an actually limiting factor for Koko that discourages you from clicking Rising Voltage freely, it would be Bulu and Excadrill. Bulu effectively 5x resists the attack and can heal off part of the damage without ceding any momentum, and Excadrill has reliable recovery and doesn't really fear any of Koko's moves. Both are also instantly threatening and quite splashable, which is IMO pretty much the main thing in the way of Koko being completely broken in practice. Ferrothorn is also common enough to be a factor, but generally I find it mostly just slows down Koko's winning sequences enough that the rest of your team has a chance to win first rather that beating it in the long term.

If I had to diagnose one threat outside of the Tapus as unhealthy, this would be it. We've all seen how in OMPL matches it can turn a game around from one side having a significant upper hand to the other side winning given just a bit of good positioning, and while it's movepool isn't *that* deep, stuff like Mach Punch and Stomping Tantrum are enough that it still makes painful guessing games. There's not a ton else to say here imo.
I feel like Tapu Koko restricts team building. Although no Tapu Koko has caused me problems, that is because I had equipment prepared for him, even today I still carry pokemon that can answer Tapu Koko.
About Zapdos Galar I share your opinion.
 

in the hills

is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
Moderator
Few announcements:

First off, we have decided to review the policy on type changes between generations. There are a few Pokemon and moves that change type throughout the generations, and in the past have not had this change taken into consideration for unknown reasons. After discussing it, the STABmons council and OM leadership is in agreement that since transfer from past generations is possible, past generation type changes should be in consideration for the STABmons mechanic. This falls under the same vein as out of battle forme changes, and we agreed the policy should extend to cover all bases that fall under this justification. This change will effect both current gen STABmons and previous gens.

To further explain how this change works, I'll use Clefable as example. Clefable was a Normal-type from Generation 1 to Generation 5, before changing to a Fairy-type in Generation 6. With this policy change, Clefable will be able to learn any Normal-type move from Generations 1-5 that is currently legal, along with any Fairy-type move.

Here's the full list of Pokemon and moves effected by this change:
Pokemon and relevant changes in type:
:cleffa::clefairy::clefable: Clefable's evolutionary line (Normal [Generation 5] -> Fairy [Generation 6])
:togepi::togetic::togekiss: Togekiss' evolutionary line (Normal [Generation 5] -> Fairy [Generation 6])
:snubbull::granbull: Granbull's evolutionary line* (Normal [Generation 5] -> Fairy [Generation 6])
*Note: Granbull is not currently in Generation 8, but this change will effect it in ORAS and USUM STABmons.

Moves and relevant changes in type:
Bite (Normal [Generation 1]-> Dark [Generation 2])
Gust (Normal [Generation 1]-> Flying [Generation 2])
Karate Chop (Normal [Generation 1]-> Fighting [Generation 2])
Sand Attack (Normal [Generation 1]-> Ground [Generation 2])
Charm (Normal [Generation 5]-> Fairy [Generation 6])
Moonlight (Normal [Generation 5]-> Fairy [Generation 6])
Sweet Kiss (Normal [Generation 5]-> Fairy [Generation 6])

Tagging Kris to implement this change

Our other announcement comes after my last post. The second STABmons Council Survey is available! Please fill out the form to share your thoughts on the current state of the metagame and previously laid out targets. Your input is highly valued here, so please share anything you'd like us to know! The survey will close after about a week or two, depending on when I find time to share the results. Thanks!
 
(EDIT: Note: This post was moved from the bug reports thread.)

Not sure if this is a real bug, but many users were discussing this in OM Room and Mashups chat today and the behaviour in question at least can be confirmed so posting to check...

Zamazenta (base) can learn Steel moves through STABmons Move Legality in [Gen 8] STABmons Mix and Mega:-

Screen Shot 2021-08-03 at 01.45.04.png


According to the STABmons FAQ, this shouldn't be possible (i.e. Zacian and Zamazenta cannot change to their Crowned formes outside of battle without hacking):-

:zacian::zacian-crowned::zamazenta::zamazenta-crowned: Steel moves are available to Zacian-Hero and Zamazenta-Hero, in addition to their corresponding type due to the Crowned Forme being available outside of battle. However all formes of each are banned for other reasons.
This was discovered to be incorrect. Zacian and Zamazenta do not get Steel-type moves, even if they use their Crowned Formes. However they remain banned for other reasons.
Either the above statement is incorrect, or there is a bug. IF this is a bug in Showdown, it seems less like a problem with the logic of STABmons Move Legality, but with the Pokedex data, in which Zacian-Crowned and Zamazenta-Crowned have "changesFrom" properties defined pointing to their base formes. The Formes.md documentation makes it seem as "changesFrom" should only be used in cases where a forme change can occur out of battle:-

Formes changeable out-of-battle
Some Pokémon can change forme out-of-battle. These include:
  • Rotom
  • Arceus
  • Genesect
  • Giratina
PS establishes one of their formes as the "original forme", and gives the others a changesFrom property pointing to the original forme.
STABmons Move Legality partly uses changesFrom to distinguish whether a type change can occur out of battle or not, preventing e.g. Groundon from gaining all Fire moves from Primal Groudon, as the latter has no changesFrom.

I tried searching the mechanics research thread and other sources but I couldn't find a clear answer about whether Crowned formes can exist outside of battle without hacking or are equivalent to Primal Groudon in this respect...

Thanks for any help with this.

EDIT: UPDATE: DaWoblefet provided the following clarification (thank-you!):-
You can hack in Crowned Zamazenta directly out of battle
And use hacked Crowned Zamazenta in local play as well
So the Crowned formes can exist out of battle, but only when the game has been hacked... If this is the basis for the FAQ quoted above, does that mean that STABmons Move Legality is currently bugged?

EDIT: UPDATE 2: Kris has provided a temporary fix for this that will become effective on Showdown soon. Thank-you, Kris!
 
Last edited:

DaWoblefet

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I tried searching the mechanics research thread and other sources but I couldn't find a clear answer about whether Crowned formes can exist outside of battle without hacking or are equivalent to Primal Groudon in this respect...
You can use hacked Crowned dogs in local play. That is, you can hack in a Zacian-Crowned and be in Crowned form without starting in base form. Hacked Zacian in this way would also display as Zacian-Crowned in Team Preview, rather than as regular Zacian. Zacian/Zamazenta aren't quite like Primal Groudon, because the transformation to Crowned form happens immediately at the start of the battle, rather than on switchin.
 

Kris

Dream Minecraft
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EDIT; UPDATE: DaWoblefet provided the following clarification (thank-you!):-


So the Crowned formes can exist out of battle, but only when the game has been hacked... If this is the basis for the FAQ quoted above, does that mean that STABmons Move Legality is currently bugged?
This still means they’re battle-only formes because they can’t be used legally out of battle without hacking and thus shouldn’t pass on steel moves to their base formes.
 

in the hills

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Tiering Update: Tapu Koko, Oblivion Wing, Zapdos-Galar, and Sleep Moves Clause
Good afternoon! Over the past few weeks, the council has read through the responses on the survey, and discussed amongst ourselves as well as community members. Given the lack of responses on the survey, I will not be posting the results. However, the council did take the responses and discussions with the community very well and they helped us to make the following tiering decisions.

After our discussions, the council has decided to ban Tapu Koko and Zapdos-Galar, restrict Oblivion Wing, and implement Sleep Moves Clause. I will not be repeating myself too much as I've highlighted the reasoning behind these decisions in a recent post. However, I will mention my change of heart on the Tapu Koko decision. At the time of my previous post, I was borderline on whether to ban it or not, and given the unprecedented community response towards banning it, I conceded that banning it will likely be a change for the better. The overcentralization of the metagame can almost entirely be attributed to Tapu Koko in my eyes, so I think this change will be very refreshing

Final Votes:
in the hillsPlasstreshRESULT:
Sleep Moves Clause​
IMPLEMENT​
DNI​
IMPLEMENT​
IMPLEMENT (2-1)
Tapu Koko​
BAN​
BAN​
DNB​
BAN (2-1)
Tapu Lele​
DNB​
DNB​
DNB​
DNB (0-3)
Tapu Bulu​
DNB​
DNB​
DNB​
DNB (0-3)
Zapdos-Galar​
BAN​
ABS​
BAN​
BAN (2-0-1)
Oblivion Wing​
BAN​
BAN​
BAN​
BAN (3-0)
If you noticed, drampa did not vote on this slate. Unfortunately, drampa's grandpa has officially decided to step down from the council. Drampa has done so much for this tier over the years and we greatly appreciate everything he's done, make sure to tell drampa's grandpa thank you for everything!

As STABmons Seasonal continues I'm sure we'll see a huge shift in the metagame following this trend. I can't say for certain what our next target is at the moment, but we'll continue to keep an eye out as always! Thanks for all the support!

Tagging Kris to implement the Tapu Koko and Zapdos-Galar bans, Oblivion Wing restriction, and implement Sleep Moves Clause (and unrestrict Spore and Lovely Kiss)
 
Yeah, it killed my Moltres-Galar + Oblivion Wing strategy...
Moltres-Galar @ Big Root
Ability: Berserk
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Oblivion Wing
- Night Daze
- Ancient Power
- Shadow Ball

Moltres-Galar @ Wise Glasses/Choice Specs
Ability: Berserk
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Aeroblast
- Night Daze
- Ancient Power
- Shadow Ball
 

in the hills

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STABmons Viability Rankings:
(last updated 6/23/2021)
S Rank:

S Rank


Tapu Bulu

S- Rank

Heatran
Toxapex

A Rank:

A+ Rank


Corviknight
Dragonite
Garchomp
Tornadus-Therian

A Rank

Excadrill
Ferrothorn
Seismitoad
Tapu Lele

A- Rank

Aerodactyl
Cinderace
Clefable
Magnezone
Skarmory
Slowking
Tyranitar
Volcarona
Weavile

B Rank:

B+ Rank

Aegislash
Blacephalon
Buzzwole
Gengar
Hippowdon
Kyurem
Slowking-Galar
Sylveon
Zapdos
Zeraora

B Rank

Blissey
Dracozolt
Grimmsnarl
Gyarados
Keldeo
Latios
Magearna
Rotom-Heat
Rotom-Wash
Slowbro
Starmie
Tangrowth
Tapu Fini
Terrakion


B- Rank

Alakazam
Arctozolt
Celesteela
Hawlucha
Mamoswine
Nidoking
Ninetales-Alola
Obstagoon
Salamence
Scizor
Thundurus-Therian
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
Victini


C Rank

C Rank


Azumarill
Blaziken
Crawdaunt
Darmanitan
Ditto
Gastrodon
Heracross
Hydreigon
Jirachi
Kommo-o
Marowak-Alola
Melmetal
Mew
Mimikyu
Pelipper
Porygon2
Reuniclus
Rillaboom
Steelix
Togekiss
Torkoal
Vaporeon
Venusaur
Galarian Form
Weezing-Galar
Hey everyone! We've updated our STABmons Viability Rankings to reflect the metagame after previous bans. I don't really have a changelog since this was pretty much a complete overhaul of our previous rankings, but definitely take note of the top ranked Pokemon! They've really cemented themselves in this new meta, but I think this new meta has a lot to offer and a lot more to discover! Really exciting since I think there's a lot more freedom than we've had any other time this gen.

That's not all! I'm also super excited to announce that we've added another council member to the team! Everyone give a warm welcome to Dr. Phd. BJ, who has been a massive help with the meta recently! Can't wait for more to come, we'll keep you updated!
 

in the hills

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Moderator
done with seasonal so here's a team dump and some thoughts on the current state of the metagame


This was the first team I built after the last ban slate and I think it explores some interesting ideas, but overall would be a better team with Glare Clefable and Defog Corviknight I believe.


This is another early team and I think it fails really hard in the Tapu Bulu counterplay area, Heatran is too slow and Tornadus-T isn't a solid offensive check, and Toxapex and Corviknight are mediocre defensive checks to it. I'd also say this struggles with opposing Garchomp if you don't Glare it with Clefable.


This team I remember wanting to build around Tangrowth, which I'd probably do again since I think it has a lot of potential now. I'm not a fan of the Urshifu here as Gambit doesn't really make sense on this team and probably would replace it with something like Tapu Lele instead.


This is the first team on this list that I actually like lol, I had a really fun time making this team and building around something very underused with Steelix. I'd definitely make Slowking Assault Vest if I had to change something about this team, but overall I really liked the feel of it.


This team is when I finally gave in and built with Cinderace. It's a pretty neat Pokemon in the current meta and I do have to convince myself to try it out more after disliking it for so long. Rotom-Wash is on this team to hopefully take some pressure of Corviknight against opposing Dragonite and some Ground-types like Excadrill


Man....
I hate this team so much lol I tweaked it so many times throughout making it, it originally had CLAYDOL of all Pokemon as the Ground-type for this team and had Volcanion>Rotom-Mow originally. I'm unsure how to feel about Hail and know that I pilot teams like this poorly, but it's frustrating that I couldn't make this build work how I wanted despite tweaks. It felt as though my options were to choose whether I hard lose to Seismitoad, Ferrothorn, or Excadrill (especially on Sand) and I'm not sure how to fix that. Hail is funny and goes brrrrr though so there's potential there


DRAPION HO DRAPION HO LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO DRAPION UNDEFEATED TOO STRONG NO CHECKS HE COIL HE DANCE MAKE YALL TRIP THEN HE REST


No Retreat Buzzwole is a pretty fun set and I feel like Buzzwole offers a nice check to a lot of stuff in the metagame


This Mew set is pretty hilarious as long as you aren't facing a Toxapex or Toxic Ferrothorn you're probably going to be able to get it in a good spot


It's pretty funny since I think Nasty Plot Sharpedo is hilariously bad, but the 5 Pokemon that follow it are absolutely phenomenal together. Nasty Plot Sharpedo is there for the memes and funny breaking but honestly you could swap it for just about anything and have a good team.


This team isn't too bad, but it did make me realize that Ice Beam Blissey is very much not a Tornadus-Therian check. Would probably replace Blissey with something better suited for this team


Built this one today wanting to try out Leech Seed Ferrothorn as an alternative to Toxic that can chip Corviknight and others well while potentially supporting teammates with some passive healing. Slowbro has potential as a blanket check to physical attackers right now that can pivot but I think it's a little tough to fit. Haven't tried this team yet but I like the look of it on paper


Wanted a Togekiss squad so that I could check Garchomp in a more offensive fashion. Otherwise p cool team I think, loving Weavile builds rn and I like getting the opportunity to use Ferrothorn because I believe it's insanely good just a little difficult to justify over Corviknight and Skarmory right now


Last and very much least, this team. dunno what to say it kinda loses to most things, I'm honestly still not a huge fan of Zeraora bc I feel like it loses to everything like usual and can't find opportunities to get in or click any of its moves without getting chipped. I'm not sure exactly where this team fails so badly but it does so :blobshrug: i thought EQ AV Glowking would be nice and it probably is, I'll have to build with it more

Metagame Thoughts
Right now the metagame is mostly good, but I do think there's an issue with how much pressure is put on defensive Steel/Flying types to check a wide set of threats right now. Corviknight and Skarmory both are incredibly common right now for being pretty much the only Pokemon that can check 2-3 of Tapu Bulu, Garchomp, Dragonite, and somewhat Tapu Lele (only in Corviknight's case and again, somewhat) at once. These Pokemon are the 4 best offensive Pokemon in the metagame and tend to have pretty different counterplay outside of Steel/Flying types, which makes the role compression nearly necessary on a lot of teams. There's also a lot of other breakers like Excadrill and Weavile that Corviknight and Skarmory are vital in checking on teams. With Skarmory and Corviknight so popular as counterplay to our best breakers, we've seen a plethora of Magnezone teams pop up throughout Seasonal. These teams have been highly successful at enabling breakers and dismantle balances quickly. Running Shed Shell on your Steel/Flying types can help against this strategy, but Knock Off is incredibly common in the tier so you are still forced into a tough situation regardless and no longer have the chip of Rocky Helmet which is important when deterring attackers.

I think that this issue stems from the breakers themselves, but ultimately Magnet Pull is enabling far too much in the metagame right now and its nature is making games uncompetitive. I think that before we address anything else in the metagame, Magnet Pull should absolutely be removed from the meta so that we can accurately gauge which threats are causing issues. As it stands I think all 4 of the aforementioned top threats are broken when enabled by Magnet Pull (along with more potentially, but that's theorymon by that point), but I'd find it hard to believe they all are without abusing trapping. The council plans on voting on Magnet Pull soon, so I thought I'd share beforehand why it is our current target before anything else.
 

Dr. Phd. BJ

LuckE n BAD
After debating on whether or not I should post after seasonal, I decided on dropping a few teams and some thoughts on the metagame. I will only be posting my teams that I've used post koko/gapdos bans.



The first team is the first team I brought r2 vs Damflame, r5 vs xbossarux, and r7 vs The Dragon Master. The team was built just before the koko/gapdos bans, and I used this team to top the STABmons ladder (proof later in post). This is one of my favorite teams to play with because it utilizes a strong defensive backbone + two sand rush mons. At the time this team was built, Dracozolt was really nice because opposing Tapu Koko would set up terrain for zolt and all seismitoad were max spedef. This meant that Zolt 2hko'd most of the meta with a simple dd 3a set, since the main grounds were chomp and drill. Scarf Rotom-Heat was a cool partner with it since it helped lure ground types, and also gave the ability to pivot. The team is fairly matchup fishy, but it was effective before the meta evolved into what it is now (will explain later).

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1399109815 (Seasonal Round 2)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1411460467-hu481div8twqdoxe38faiw6wy1nb0w2pw (Seasonal Round 5)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1421230917-5cicj3we33apgoeik0eosqp7ozpanocpw (Seasonal Round 7)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1413052354 (Room Tour vs Chazm)

Hippowdon (F) @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Thousand Waves
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
- Shore Up

Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Shore Up

Rotom-Heat @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Leaf Storm
- Blue Flare
- Ice Beam

Slowking @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 22 Spe
- Flamethrower
- Future Sight
- Psystrike
- Flip Turn

dan bassoon (Dracozolt) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Darts
- Bolt Beak
- Fire Fang

Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Spikes
- Roost



This team was built around Fire Lash boots Cinderace. I think Cinderace is really underrated because the speed tier, coverage, and high attack stat are pretty good in the meta. Having Fire Lash makes it hard to pivot around, and it also makes U-Turn do a respectable amount of damage with the defense drop. Again, this was built pre koko/gapdos ban. However, I really like the way the team came out. I thought of Scarf Lele + DDance Garchomp. The idea behind it was to let Garchomp be more aggressive, then potentially heal it up with Lunar Dance late game once everything is chipped. I used this team r2 vs Damflame, and r6 vs The Number Man. The team is pretty solid, although I would probably make some tweaks to it now if it were up to me. However, the team has had success and has a good base for building.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1399115125 (Seasonal Round 2)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1419881068-tnvagqfnl6hhl03rebfweo4bnpmqgx7pw (Seasonal Round 6)

dan bassoon (Cinderace) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Libero
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Zen Headbutt
- Fire Lash
- U-turn

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Strength Sap
- Stealth Rock
- Anchor Shot
- Body Press

Garchomp @ Life Orb
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thousand Waves
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Darts
- Shore Up

Slowking @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 22 Spe
- Future Sight
- Dragon Tail
- Flip Turn
- Scald

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Expanding Force
- Lunar Dance
- Moonblast
- Trick

Zapdos @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aeroblast
- Toxic
- Defog
- Roost



My favorite team in gen 7 for stab was this Reuniclus Toxapex balance build with CB Aero as a breaker. The idea of this team was to essentially revamp that to fit in the current meta. Reuniclus is really nice at checking Tapu Lele, while also providing Knock + Teleport. I was under the impression that Aerodactyl was broken roughly 80% of the time when paired with Magnezone since that thing can kinda beat ferrothorn. The team came out pretty different than the one I built in gen 7, but nonetheless it's a team I enjoy using. I only used it r4 vs in the hills, and unfortunately Head Smash landed a little bit to the left of Tangrowth early on. I did pass this team to TNM and he won a game in Seasonal with it. The team is pretty fun when you get the right matchup and when Aero hits Head Smash.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1408953527 (Seasonal Round 4)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7stabmons-877290378 (Gen 7 team modeled after)

dan bassoon (Reuniclus) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Knock Off
- Psystrike
- Teleport

Seismitoad @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Thousand Waves
- Stealth Rock
- Shore Up
- Flip Turn

Magnezone @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Doom Desire
- Thunderbolt
- Body Press

Tapu Bulu @ Life Orb
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Grassy Glide
- Taunt

Zapdos @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Aeroblast
- Defog
- Roost

Aerodactyl @ Choice Band
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
- Accelerock
- Brave Bird



This was a standard sand team I put together, the only time I used it was r4 vs in the hills. The team looks good on paper, but it was pretty underwhelming when I played with it. I got lucky that Torn-T was Hasty, which allowed Bulu to break pretty well. I also dodged a Hurricane trying to make an aggressive read. The team has a couple of cool techs such as Taunt Bulu for Iron Defense birds, and Leaf Storm Rotom-Heat to lure Seismitoad for Excadrill +Tyranitar, also just nice getting rid of that mon since it's usually a hazard setter that pivots forever. Would not recommend this team per say, but it got a win in Seasonal which is enough to give it some shine.

Edit: Don't use this team for swiss. Don't. It's for your own good. I'll happily pass you better teams on ps if you pm me

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1408958634 (Seasonal Round 4)

Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thousand Waves
- Sunsteel Strike
- Rapid Spin
- Shore Up

Rotom-Heat @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Volt Switch
- Leaf Storm
- Roost

Tyranitar @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Accelerock
- Knock Off
- Shore Up

Slowking @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 22 Spe
- Flamethrower
- Grass Knot
- Psystrike
- Flip Turn

dan bassoon (Tapu Bulu) @ Life Orb
Ability: Grassy Surge
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Grassy Glide
- Taunt

Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Spikes
- Roost



This team is based around a core I thought of, Doom Desire Heatran + Whirlwind Tapu Bulu. It's a good enough core in itself, but adding RNG in the mix to get Doom Desire kills is really nice. I never found myself clicking Strength Sap with Tapu Bulu, which is why I started experimenting with the likes of Taunt/Whirlwind. I think Aromatherapy/Stun Spore/Play Rough also have good uses in the current meta, especially Play Rough for Dragonite, Buzzwole, and other Bulu. Although the core is one I thought of, this team belongs to The Number Man. I sent him the core, and he sent me a couple drafts with the previously aforementioned sets. The team is really cool, Toxic Zeraora makes progress in almost every game. Unfortunately, I happened to run into a Steelix in seasonal, which is arguably the best counter to Toxic Zeraora. The team is extremely solid, and has two of the more prominent cores in the meta (Seis + Steel bird, Bulu + Tran). Although this team lost, this team is better than the sand one I just posted.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1408966593 (Seasonal Round 4)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1419876072-9xtetxhq7cyul9lwobid82t41vr8fltpw (Seasonal Round 6)

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 92 HP / 252 SpA / 164 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Doom Desire
- Earth Power
- Blue Flare

Tapu Bulu @ Life Orb
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Grassy Glide
- Whirlwind

Zeraora @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Close Combat

Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Roost
- Body Press

Seismitoad @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Flip Turn
- Thousand Waves
- Shore Up
- Toxic

Sylveon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Boomburst
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Glare



I noticed a drop in Tyranitar usage, and I personally didn't find myself liking the defensive sets. I remembered that lure Tyranitar was a thing in past gens, and I decided that lure Tyranitar + Garchomp was gonna be a build I was gonna use at least once. The goal is pretty simple, you get up SR as the opponent goes into Corv, then you click Fire Blast as they defog and keep it low for as long as possible. This team is alright, it definitely feels like a team from previous gens which is kinda cool. There is a heavy reliance on Garchomp to break, which I don't like. I only brought this team r5 vs xbossarux, and it did get the job done. I feel like the team has more potential, I just don't know what to change. Also, please do not use 3a roost Rotom-H it is not good xd

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1411462267-vujlmpby202kfauv5cgqgnvojknhqf4pw (Seasonal Round 5)

dan bassoon (Clefable) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Recover
- Knock Off
- Moonblast
- Rapid Spin

Rotom-Heat @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Volt Switch
- Leaf Storm
- Roost

Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Fire Blast
- Shore Up

Slowking @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 22 Spe
- Flamethrower
- Grass Knot
- Psystrike
- Flip Turn

Garchomp @ Life Orb
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thousand Waves
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Darts
- Shore Up

Corviknight @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- King's Shield
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Roost



Volcarona is a mon I always try to build around, and I just never end up doing it. Luckily for me, I was paired up against TNM for seasonal. I passed TNM pretty much all of my teams post koko/gapdos ban. This gave me an excuse to build a completely different team with a different archetype, since I had a habit of using sand. Volcarona became significantly better with the drop in Tyranitar usage, and with Oblivion Wing getting banned. I also thought Scarf Lele synergized really well with volcarona offensively, and Future Sight Lele with the right support is sooo nice since it pretty much does double the damage in comparison to Slowking. Other benefits of Future Sight Lele are keeping Scarf (which is needed in some matchups), and having delayed momentum since Future Sight hits hard. I also threw on a Lucha because the speed is nice, and the coverage is underprepped for with gapdos gone. Dragon Ascent allows it to click a flying move if psychic seed isn't used, which is really clutch at times. Also s/o to in the hills for the Mew set, which is super fun to use. This team is one of my favorites because it uses some underutilized mons, has enough of a defensive backbone, and is very offensively oriented.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1419872054-r1pk3v4svez1wy85d9y08v9fov4xeaypw (Seasonal Round 6)

Mew @ Life Orb
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Photon Geyser
- Dragon Dance
- Close Combat
- Blaze Kick

Hawlucha @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Ascent
- Close Combat
- Taunt

Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Thousand Waves
- Stealth Rock
- Shore Up
- Flip Turn

Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain
- Blue Flare
- Psychic

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Expanding Force
- Future Sight
- Thunderbolt
- Moonblast

Corviknight @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 224 HP / 252 Def / 32 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Defog
- Roost



I remember playing drampa's grandpa in a Room Tour, and I lost half my team to Specs Gengar since I had no Ghost resist. With Tyranitar usage down, I pocketed the idea of Specs Blace / Gengar. The reason I chose to build around Blace instead of Gengar was due to the ability to threaten Steels with fire coverage, and the extra special attack which helps net some extra 2HKO's and OHKO's that Gengar normally does not get. The extra speed, "bulk", Poison typing, and Focus Blast that Gengar offers are definitely important in some matchups. There are not many mons that have a speed tier in between Blace and Gengar, and I figured if I'm fishing for no Ghost resist I might as well run Blace. I wanted to pair it with pivot spam to give it as many chances to break as possible, but the teams I did build with pivoting just didn't suit my liking. Counter Zam was an idea I had to nuke lead Torn-T, also gives general backup to the physical mons in the tier such as Bulu and Excadrill. I liked this version I built, and used it r6 vs TNM. Blace did net 3 kills, and Counter Zam worked, but ultimately it was not enough to get the win. The teams fighting resists are Zam and Blace, which is something I find funny. I definitely feel as if the Ghost types in the tier have untapped potential, and could easily move up next VR update if more teams with them surface.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1419876072-9xtetxhq7cyul9lwobid82t41vr8fltpw (Round 6)

Alakazam @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Def
- Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot
- Psystrike
- Counter

Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Shore Up

Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Thousand Waves
- Shore Up
- Flip Turn
- Toxic

Tyranitar @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Accelerock
- Knock Off
- Shore Up

Blacephalon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Searing Shot
- Blue Flare
- Trick

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Spikes
- Roost



I was grinding out the VR with ith and Plas. When it got to the lower ranks, one particular mon stood out to me: Rillaboom. I felt as if there was something this mon offered that Bulu didn't, and after some thinking it dawned on me. Rillaboom gets knock off, which allows it to remove Shed Shell from Steel birds. I immediately started building dragmag + Rilla, and I was extremely pleased with the way it turned out. The team is extremely weak against Rotom-Heat, but luckily I haven't played any. This team portrays the current meta really well, there's magpull + Dragon (Dnite in this case, Chomp variant didn't feel right), and a Knock Off lure on the off chance a Shed Shell bird shows up. The Magnezone set could probably be better, but it does enough. I made Rillaboom Boots since I didn't like taking Life Orb recoil from knock/u-turn, and I liked the idea of stacking hazards since the team wasn't really weak to hazards. I used this r7 vs The Dragon Master, and dnite had amazing mu with hazards up. I think this team is 3-0, and dnite has swept late game like every time lmao. Fun team, doubt it will be legal for long.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1421213822-cmftpdvgp0qmcfep0pw6s5ze64fglqtpw (Seasonal Round 7)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1425834963 (Seasonal Round 8)

Waste Away (cover) (Rillaboom) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Grassy Glide
- Knock Off
- U-turn

isohel (Clefable) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Milk Drink
- Glare

crash (Magnezone) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon
- Iron Defense
- Thunderbolt
- Body Press

Wake Up (Slowking) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 22 Spe
- Flamethrower
- Future Sight
- Psystrike
- Flip Turn

XO (Dragonite) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Darts
- Roost

rock + roll (Skarmory) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Spikes
- Roost



I didn't really have any Toxapex teams, and I also wanted to make a different Dracozolt sand team. I started with a base of Hippo/Pex/Zolt, and then threw on some fillers afterwards. I loaded this up r7 vs The Dragon Master, and they had no ground types and only Tapu Bulu as a resist. I had a Doom Desire up on turn 4, and Dracozolt was in on Tapu Bulu. I tried to predict a double since they would've lost the only elec resist turn 4, but they kinda just blindly clicked CC which tilted me. The worst part was that in the chat, my opponent said they were mad they lost Bulu which was literally happening if they didn't make the switch regardless of what I clicked. I guess I didn't need to risk it, and if I switched I probably would still be in Seasonal. The replay isn't saved fsr, which is why I'm trying to kinda describe the game. The team did well in testing, and is definitely solid in the current meta.

No Replays :[[

Hippowdon (F) @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Thousand Waves
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
- Shore Up

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Flip Turn
- Recover
- Toxic
- Haze

Dracozolt @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Darts
- Bolt Beak
- Fire Fang

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Expanding Force
- Lunar Dance
- Moonblast
- Trick

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Moongeist Beam
- Flash Cannon
- Doom Desire
- King's Shield

Corviknight @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Defog
- Roost

Current Thoughts:
For a brief period of time after the koko/gapdos ban, I think the meta was in an amazing place. People were still trying to figure out what was good, and what wasn't. I remember there were talks of Torn-T being borderline broken after Koko was gone, and now it might be the third best flying type in the tier? Practically every play style was viable. Webs? Sand? Screens? Balance? Pretty much everything had play, and that was not always the case. The biggest issue in the tier right now is Magnet Pull. There is a ton of pressure on the Steel Birds in the meta due to the amount of mons they check. A list of these mons include but are not limited to; Garchomp, Dragonite, Tapu Bulu, Tapu Lele, Excadrill, and Torn-T. These birds need Rocky Helmet/Leftovers to be able to deter the offensive threats in the tier. Obviously one mon can’t check everything, however prepping for all of these mons takes a ton of slots up. If you could check all of the mons listed above in one slot or three, what would you do? It isn't a surprise that Corv usage has only trended upwards post koko/oblivion wing ban. There's a lot of pressure on Corviknight in particular when handling all of these threats, all of which are ranked in at least A. While some may argue that the mons that abuse Magnet Pull are broken and not Magnet Pull, I tend to disagree. Magnet Pull pushes these mons over the top, and in order to figure out which mons should stay and which should go, Magnet Pull needs to be removed in order to assess that. The tier honestly has arguably less freedom now, with the vast majority of teams having Corviknight, at least one Tapu, Seismitoad/Garchomp as a ground, additional Bulu check, and maybe a free slot which is often Magnezone right now. This isn't a knock on anybody I have played with, but most of the teams I have played in the past 2-3 weeks for ssnl/testing have been very similar. Players are getting less creative, and team building is becoming arguably more constricted than it was pre bans. I’m not advocating for banning everything with an attack over 100, but something definitely needs to be done in order to make the meta less centralized.

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