Hi all,
I have been playing Gen 1 on and off since 2018. Recently I moved countries and have lots of free time on my hands and so am seeking to take improvement seriously. I am seeking feedback on my ladder team, which I have played for the last two weeks (263 wins, 181 losses).
General Strategy
The goal of the team is to outlast others (hence lots of Rest and instant recovery), wear them down and then finish them off with Tauros and/or Jolteon. Its working well enough but there are specific move choices I would love input on (in addition to any other feedback of course). The team does well against more aggressive builds (for example, teams with Persian) and teams with the legendary birds. With a Starmie opener, there can be some disadvantage which facing specific opposing Leads and Exeggutor in particular is a huge hurdle for the team.
The Team
Starmie
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Recover
Played in the Lead role. Surf for solid damage versus Gengar, Jynx, Alakazam and Normals. Thunderbolt for other Starmie. The issue with this set is it is walled by Exeggutor which, as you will see, is presently a problem mon for this team. I previously played Psychic plus Thunderbolt, which hits Gengar harder (including a chance for a turn 1 crit kill) but makes you worse versus Alakazam and still does not help with Exeggutor. I have been most comfortable with Surf after testing as its solid damage in the mid to late game when everything is worn down somewhat. Still, this is the mon I am most interested in feedback on - a good start to a battle makes a difference!
Cloyster
- Blizzard
- Clamp
- Rest
- Explosion
I find Cloyster to be essential for this team structure because my Chansey is often paralysed (and therefore cannot switch into Snorlax) and my other flex pick, Jolteon, offers little bulk. Cloyster is mostly played for pivots against Snorlax and Tauros in the middlegame and can soak up stray Ice-type moves too. Rest offers some longevity which is much appreciated as Cloyster can only switch into Body Slam so many times before its crippled and would otherwise only function as a sacrifice. I do not believe any changes are necessary to this mon.
Jolteon
- Thunderbolt
- Double Kick
- Thunder Wave
- Rest
The final flex pick offers a strong STAB-Thunderbolt, keeping waters and legendary birds in check. Our general strategy is to wear down the health on opposing teams over time and this often means Jolten is able to sweep in the lategame. The choice of Rest allows Jolteon to outlast some Chansey and all Zapdos but does leave me with another mon weak to Exeggutor. Pin Missile would be something to consider although I have found Rest to be excellent in the current Gen 1 OU ladder metagame. Interestingly, I have not found Rhydon to be particularly problematic, probably as a consequence of Surf Starmie and Cloyster.
Chansey
- Sing
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled
A standard Sing Chansey, acting as the team's special wall (Cloyster is the physical wall). No Counter as the team fares well enough on the physical front (Cloyster plus Snorlax with Reflect) so the additional paralysis support from Thunder Wave really helps enable Starmie, Tauros and Jolteon later. I'm still getting a feel for playing with Sing Chansey, as its a new set up for me, but it functions well as the core of the team. The threat of an Ice Freeze would seem to outweigh any potential upside of switching to Thunderbolt.
Snorlax
- Body Slam
- Reflect
- Rest
- Earthquake
A physical Snorlax. Reflect is for other Snorlax and Earthquake scouts Chansey for Counter and hits Gengar hard. This slot is normally Ice Beam however and its absence means my Snorlax will not win the Snorlax-mirror. I would therefore rather have Ice Beam here but it means my team is very weak to Gengar so it may be necessary to play Earthquake. In either case, playing a coverage move seems better to me than more damage from Hyper Beam - I have rarely been wanting for more normal damage in my games and am much more concerned with breaking through a Gengar or Rhydon without losing the initiative. This is the other mon I am most interested in feedback on.
Tauros (M)
- Body Slam
- Hyper Beam
- Earthquake
- Blizzard
A standard Tauros. The presence of Jolteon means I can bring Tauros in to apply pressure much more aggressively in the middlegame, where it can deal hefty damage to the opposing team, allowing Starmie and/or Jolteon to later sweep. No Lightning Bolt here as Starmie already has it, so Blizzard covers Exeggutor and Earthquake covers Gengar which would otherwise be huge problems for my team.
Threats
1) Exeggutor. This name came up a few times while writing the above and in my view, its the single biggest problem the team presently faces. In good news, Exeggutor is less popular than before although still somewhat common on ladder. The main problem is usually a lack of good switch in - Starmie in usually my sleep-sacrifice, so can switch in and try to wake up if Exeggutor is paralyzed. If not, Exeggutor usually applies enough pressure to force Starmie out so my only other real option is Chansey, however, the risk here is they will simply Explode and leave me in a 5vs4 situation (we are both down 1 mon but I have Starmie asleep). Even when this situation is avoided, I don't have a lot of moves which hit Exeggutor for serious damage, so it can usually spread status or damage quite a bit before going down.
One could make the case for Blizzard or Ice Beam on Starmie, Ice Beam on Snorlax or Pin Missile on Jolteon. These may be the best options. I am most open to putting back Ice Beam on Snorlax as this helps versus other Reflex Snorlax and Reflect Chansey too, although it weakens me further versus Gengar. Exeggutor is the biggest problem as I see it, so if you can suggest any tweaks to address this problem it would be most definitely appreciated!
2) Gengar. A much smaller issue but one still worth commenting on. Against Lead Gengar, I click Surf with Starmie and then go to Chansey when Hypnosis hits. Chansey can usually take 1 Night Shade + Explosion, usually surviving on very little health (1-2%), which allows for Thunder Wave plus Softboiled and the gain of some initiative. Once Gengar swaps out however, I don't have a lot of great damage for it, though it could be a consequence of not playing aggressively enough by switching in Jolteon or Tauros who do deal good damage. If I can get chip damage on Gengar its usually not a threat in the late-game. My main concession for Gengar is Earthquake on Snorlax (which does have some minor other upsides). I previously played Psychic on Starmie to address Gengar, but it left me doing too little against Alakazam.
In Conclusion
I am confident in saying that overall, this is a very solid and reliable team, albeit with some minor issues. With your input, these issues may be resolved and so I welcome any and all input you are able to offer. If I can answer any questions you have, please do not hesitate to ask.
Best,
Zem
I have been playing Gen 1 on and off since 2018. Recently I moved countries and have lots of free time on my hands and so am seeking to take improvement seriously. I am seeking feedback on my ladder team, which I have played for the last two weeks (263 wins, 181 losses).
General Strategy
The goal of the team is to outlast others (hence lots of Rest and instant recovery), wear them down and then finish them off with Tauros and/or Jolteon. Its working well enough but there are specific move choices I would love input on (in addition to any other feedback of course). The team does well against more aggressive builds (for example, teams with Persian) and teams with the legendary birds. With a Starmie opener, there can be some disadvantage which facing specific opposing Leads and Exeggutor in particular is a huge hurdle for the team.
The Team
Starmie
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Recover
Played in the Lead role. Surf for solid damage versus Gengar, Jynx, Alakazam and Normals. Thunderbolt for other Starmie. The issue with this set is it is walled by Exeggutor which, as you will see, is presently a problem mon for this team. I previously played Psychic plus Thunderbolt, which hits Gengar harder (including a chance for a turn 1 crit kill) but makes you worse versus Alakazam and still does not help with Exeggutor. I have been most comfortable with Surf after testing as its solid damage in the mid to late game when everything is worn down somewhat. Still, this is the mon I am most interested in feedback on - a good start to a battle makes a difference!
Cloyster
- Blizzard
- Clamp
- Rest
- Explosion
I find Cloyster to be essential for this team structure because my Chansey is often paralysed (and therefore cannot switch into Snorlax) and my other flex pick, Jolteon, offers little bulk. Cloyster is mostly played for pivots against Snorlax and Tauros in the middlegame and can soak up stray Ice-type moves too. Rest offers some longevity which is much appreciated as Cloyster can only switch into Body Slam so many times before its crippled and would otherwise only function as a sacrifice. I do not believe any changes are necessary to this mon.
Jolteon
- Thunderbolt
- Double Kick
- Thunder Wave
- Rest
The final flex pick offers a strong STAB-Thunderbolt, keeping waters and legendary birds in check. Our general strategy is to wear down the health on opposing teams over time and this often means Jolten is able to sweep in the lategame. The choice of Rest allows Jolteon to outlast some Chansey and all Zapdos but does leave me with another mon weak to Exeggutor. Pin Missile would be something to consider although I have found Rest to be excellent in the current Gen 1 OU ladder metagame. Interestingly, I have not found Rhydon to be particularly problematic, probably as a consequence of Surf Starmie and Cloyster.
Chansey
- Sing
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled
A standard Sing Chansey, acting as the team's special wall (Cloyster is the physical wall). No Counter as the team fares well enough on the physical front (Cloyster plus Snorlax with Reflect) so the additional paralysis support from Thunder Wave really helps enable Starmie, Tauros and Jolteon later. I'm still getting a feel for playing with Sing Chansey, as its a new set up for me, but it functions well as the core of the team. The threat of an Ice Freeze would seem to outweigh any potential upside of switching to Thunderbolt.
Snorlax
- Body Slam
- Reflect
- Rest
- Earthquake
A physical Snorlax. Reflect is for other Snorlax and Earthquake scouts Chansey for Counter and hits Gengar hard. This slot is normally Ice Beam however and its absence means my Snorlax will not win the Snorlax-mirror. I would therefore rather have Ice Beam here but it means my team is very weak to Gengar so it may be necessary to play Earthquake. In either case, playing a coverage move seems better to me than more damage from Hyper Beam - I have rarely been wanting for more normal damage in my games and am much more concerned with breaking through a Gengar or Rhydon without losing the initiative. This is the other mon I am most interested in feedback on.
Tauros (M)
- Body Slam
- Hyper Beam
- Earthquake
- Blizzard
A standard Tauros. The presence of Jolteon means I can bring Tauros in to apply pressure much more aggressively in the middlegame, where it can deal hefty damage to the opposing team, allowing Starmie and/or Jolteon to later sweep. No Lightning Bolt here as Starmie already has it, so Blizzard covers Exeggutor and Earthquake covers Gengar which would otherwise be huge problems for my team.
Threats
1) Exeggutor. This name came up a few times while writing the above and in my view, its the single biggest problem the team presently faces. In good news, Exeggutor is less popular than before although still somewhat common on ladder. The main problem is usually a lack of good switch in - Starmie in usually my sleep-sacrifice, so can switch in and try to wake up if Exeggutor is paralyzed. If not, Exeggutor usually applies enough pressure to force Starmie out so my only other real option is Chansey, however, the risk here is they will simply Explode and leave me in a 5vs4 situation (we are both down 1 mon but I have Starmie asleep). Even when this situation is avoided, I don't have a lot of moves which hit Exeggutor for serious damage, so it can usually spread status or damage quite a bit before going down.
One could make the case for Blizzard or Ice Beam on Starmie, Ice Beam on Snorlax or Pin Missile on Jolteon. These may be the best options. I am most open to putting back Ice Beam on Snorlax as this helps versus other Reflex Snorlax and Reflect Chansey too, although it weakens me further versus Gengar. Exeggutor is the biggest problem as I see it, so if you can suggest any tweaks to address this problem it would be most definitely appreciated!
2) Gengar. A much smaller issue but one still worth commenting on. Against Lead Gengar, I click Surf with Starmie and then go to Chansey when Hypnosis hits. Chansey can usually take 1 Night Shade + Explosion, usually surviving on very little health (1-2%), which allows for Thunder Wave plus Softboiled and the gain of some initiative. Once Gengar swaps out however, I don't have a lot of great damage for it, though it could be a consequence of not playing aggressively enough by switching in Jolteon or Tauros who do deal good damage. If I can get chip damage on Gengar its usually not a threat in the late-game. My main concession for Gengar is Earthquake on Snorlax (which does have some minor other upsides). I previously played Psychic on Starmie to address Gengar, but it left me doing too little against Alakazam.
In Conclusion
I am confident in saying that overall, this is a very solid and reliable team, albeit with some minor issues. With your input, these issues may be resolved and so I welcome any and all input you are able to offer. If I can answer any questions you have, please do not hesitate to ask.
Best,
Zem
