Starmie (OU Revamp) Done

[Oldamar999]

[OVERVIEW]

With an amazing base 115 Speed, a good Water / Psychic typing, reliable recovery, and a great support movepool consisting of moves like Thunder Wave and the coveted Rapid Spin, Starmie is very much a solid Pokemon. Starmie's access to Rapid Spin is massively helpful for many teams, as it can prevent Starmie's team from being worn down over time, and Starmie is easily the most consistent Rapid Spin user in the tier due to its ability to threaten all Spikers and spinblockers. Additionally, Starmie's typing gives it useful resistances to Fighting-, Ice-, and Psychic-type moves. That, combined with its great Speed tier and access to Recover, allows it to counter critical offensive threats like Machamp and Charizard as well as letting it check many important Pokemon such as Steelix, Tyranitar, Rhydon, Marowak, and Nidoking. However, Starmie struggles to do any significant damage to the very common Raikou and Zapdos as well as the ubiquitous Snorlax, all of which pose a massive threat to it. Therefore, Starmie does not usually run offensive sets and tends to run a more defensive set with Rapid Spin and Thunder Wave utility. Unfortunately, this can prove to be problematic due to Starmie's below average bulk and constant need to use Recover or Rapid Spin, which can give free turns to extremely dangerous Pokemon such as Snorlax, Zapdos, and Exeggutor.

[SET]
name: Rapid Spin
move 1: Surf
move 2: Psychic / Thunder Wave
move 3: Rapid Spin
move 4: Recover
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Surf is Starmie's Water-type STAB attack that hits Pokemon like Steelix, Tyranitar, Rhydon, and Charizard super effectively. Psychic is another form of STAB that allows Starmie to take down Pokemon like Machamp and Tentacruel and makes it more risky for Gengar to try to block Starmie's Rapid Spin. Thunder Wave can be run over Psychic to support Starmie's team, particularly slow but powerful attackers like Belly Drum Snorlax, Marowak, and Machamp, by slowing down faster Pokemon like Raikou and Zapdos and forcing them to use Rest more often, making them much easier to handle. However, dropping Psychic reduces Starmie's ability to counter Machamp and hurt Cloyster. Rapid Spin removes Spikes from Starmie's side of the field, preventing it and its team from being gradually worn down as the match goes on. Recover allows Starmie to stay healthy throughout the match and consistently check what it needs to, prevent it from being worn down as easily by Spikes and Toxic, and make it much harder to Pursuit trap.

There are three main strategies that Spikers can use to keep Spikes up against Starmie. Toxic can be used to force Starmie to eventually use Recover, which gives the Spikers a window of opportunity to either use Explosion on Starmie or switch to an Electric-type. Ghost-types can switch into a predicted Rapid Spin from Starmie and either attempt to beat it with Hypnosis, Thunder, Thunderbolt, Mean Look + Perish Song, or Explosion or otherwise immediately switch out again to Zapdos or Raikou. This forces Starmie out and preserves both Spikes and the Ghost-type's HP even if Starmie chooses a STAB attack. Lastly, Forretress can use Hidden Power Bug as Starmie attempts to spin, which just barely does enough damage for Starmie to be unable to Recover it off safely in the long run.

Team Options
========

Slow but powerful attackers like Marowak, Belly Drum Snorlax, and Machamp greatly appreciate Starmie's Rapid Spin support, as it increases their longevity; all of these Pokemon also like Starmie's ability to support them with Thunder Wave to slow down faster threats. Since Starmie is heavily threatened by Snorlax, Skarmory makes for a great partner due to its ability to reliably check most non-mixed Snorlax sets, and it doubles as a reliable answer to Heracross. Skarmory appreciates Starmie's ability to remove Spikes against Cloyster, which tends to take advantage of Skarmory to set up Spikes. Starmie also detests Electric-types, so good answers to them like Raikou and Blissey are very helpful. Both of these Pokemon greatly appreciate Rapid Spin support, and Starmie appreciates Blissey's ability to cure it of status with Heal Bell. Another option for a cleric is Miltank, which can also check Curse and mixed Snorlax sets decently. Spinblockers like Gengar and Misdreavus can be very annoying for Starmie, as they prevent it from removing Spikes, so Pursuit trappers like Tyranitar and Umbreon are greatly appreciated; Tyranitar and Umbreon also double as decent checks to Snorlax.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Thunder can be used to hit Cloyster, Vaporeon, and Suicune super effectively, but using it over Psychic makes taking down Machamp and Gengar, two crucial Pokemon, much more challenging. Light Screen allows Starmie to become a near-perfect counter to Vaporeon and helps its teammates by doubling their Special Defense. Substitute can make it even harder for Cloyster to keep Spikes up by blocking Toxic or Explosion attempts while also wasting Thunder PP from the likes of Zapdos and Raikou, blocking Giga Drain from Exeggutor, and easing prediction against spinblockers. However, both Light Screen and Substitute remove crucial coverage, so they are less than ideal. Hydro Pump is more powerful than Surf and allows Starmie to land many KOs more easily, notably granting it a guaranteed 2HKO on Tyranitar, a good chance to OHKO Marowak, and a guaranteed OHKO on Steelix. However, Hydro Pump's unreliable accuracy and lower PP mean that Surf is often the better option. Toxic can force typical counters like Snorlax and Zapdos to eventually use Rest, but if it's used over Psychic, Gengar becomes a much greater threat, and Starmie becomes setup fodder for Tentacruel. Reflect can be used to help soften blows from Snorlax, which Starmie allows in almost for free, and can also be used on turns where Explosion is anticipated. It can also support setup sweepers like Belly Drum Snorlax and Swords Dance Marowak by putting them out of range of physical attacks, most notably Explosion, in specific situations. However, Reflect leaves Starmie more vulnerable to Gengar, does nothing against Electric-types, which are also common answers, and fails to reliably protect it from Snorlax, as it still risks paralysis from Body Slam or Thunder, sleep from Lovely Kiss, and an OHKO from a critical hit from Double-Edge. Ice Beam lets Starmie hit Zapdos and Exeggutor super effectively, but it results in poor coverage if Starmie is using Rapid Spin, so it is usually only run on Growth Pass recipient sets.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Snorlax**: Snorlax's absurd HP and Special Defense allow it to sponge Starmie's special attacks quite well. Snorlax can take advantage of this by using Starmie to set up Curse or Belly Drum and threaten to deal significant damage with STAB moves like Body Slam, Return, and Double-Edge; Body Slam also has a 30% chance to paralyze Starmie, which will significantly hinder its capabilities if it doesn't have Heal Bell support.

**Electric-types**: Electric-types such as Raikou and Zapdos can tank any of Starmie's moves and can take it down with their super effective STAB moves, and if they are running RestTalk, the threat of paralysis from Starmie is also less of a concern.

**Grass-types**: Grass-types like Exeggutor and Meganium resist one or both of Starmie's STAB attacks and force it out with their own STAB moves. Exeggutor can also either paralyze Starmie or put it to sleep, which massively hinders or even flat out removes Starmie's ability to remove Spikes and check powerful Pokemon. However, neither of them run Rest, so they should try to avoid switching into Starmie's Thunder Wave.

**Ghost-types**: Ghost-types like Gengar and Misdreavus are able to block Starmie's Rapid Spin. While the standard Psychic Starmie 2HKOes Gengar and 3HKOes Misdreavus, they can switch in on a predicted Rapid Spin before either switching out or attempting to take it on. Specifically, Gengar can OHKO Starmie with Explosion, Misdreavus can annoy it with Pain Split and possibly Perish trap it, and both can put Starmie to sleep with Hypnosis and 2HKO it with Thunder. The potential paralysis from Thunder can also turn the tables on Starmie. However, Gengar needs to come in completely healthy to check Starmie, as it is weak to Psychic and greatly dislikes being paralyzed.

**Blissey**: Blissey boasts even higher special bulk than Snorlax, has recovery in Soft-Boiled to scoff at any of Starmie's attempts to damage it, and threatens Starmie with Toxic, Present, or even Thunder or Thunderbolt. Blissey also has access to Heal Bell, which can undo all of Starmie's paralysis spreading efforts.

**Umbreon**: Umbreon's incredible special bulk and immunity to Psychic mean that it completely walls Starmie, and Rest will get rid of any status Starmie inflicts it with. Umbreon can also cripple Starmie with Toxic and Pursuit trap it if it has both moves, or it can Pursuit trap Starmie if it has already been hit with Toxic.

**Vaporeon**: Vaporeon resists Surf, takes very little damage from Psychic, and is able to cure any status inflicted on it with Rest, which means Vaporeon can sometimes use Starmie as setup fodder. However, Vaporeon needs to be cautious about Special Defense drops from Psychic, and it has difficulties setting up against Starmie if it has Light Screen or Thunder.

**Heracross**: Heracross threatens to OHKO Starmie with STAB Megahorn and can remove status with Rest. However, it can only safely check Starmie if it doesn't have Psychic, which 2HKOes Heracross.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Oldamar999, 453750]]
- Quality checked by: [[Earthworm, 15210], [Fear, 2005]]
- Grammar checked by: [[The Dutch Plumberjack, 232216], [Empress, 175616]]

 

[Oldamar999]

This is ready for QC

 

[Jorgen]

Good! All minor suggestions:

In Team Options:

Slow but powerful attackers like Marowak, Belly Drum Snorlax, and Machamp greatly appreciate Thunder Wave support from Starmie since it allows them to take down faster threats much easier; Marowak and Belly Drum Snorlax in particular also enjoy Spikes being removed.

Implied here is that Machamp isn't particularly bothered by Spikes. That probably shouldn't be implied. Also, this implies that Twave is Starmie's primary mode of support and Rapid Spin is its secondary, even though Twave is a slashed option and Rapid Spin is not. Rapid Spin should probably be mentioned first, and only then should you go into Twave as bonus support.

Starmie appreciates Blissey's ability to cure it of status with Heal Bell. Starmie is very vulnerable to status, so cleric support from the likes of Miltank and Blissey make for incredibly useful teammates

Heal Bell as support for Starmie is perhaps a little overblown. It gets Recover to counteract Toxic without needing to spend 2 turns asleep, and it's generally very difficult to paralyze a Starmie. As such, it's generally not too bothered by status. At least not enough to feel compelled to run Heal Bell for its sake.

In Other Options:
Reflect should be mentioned somewhere in the analysis. It neutralizes one of Starmie's chief switch-ins (Snorlax)! Sure, Curse Machamp gets past it with Surf as the STAB, but Reflect does slow it down so that it can't do so without losing most of its health in the process. Plus, it helps Starmie fight HP Bug Forretress and can be a "gotcha" for Cloyster trying to Explode on you.

Toxic is also not a bad option. If only because it's perhaps slightly better against Snorlax than Thunder Wave is.

Thunder or Thunderbolt can be used to hit Cloyster, Suicune, and Skarmory super effectively, but using it over psychic prevents Starmie from taking down Machamp and Gengar, which are both crucial Pokemon.

Skarmory can be beaten with Surf, so it seems superfluous to mention here. Vaporeon, however, should be mentioned here. Tbolt fails to 3HKO but can kill with a crit. Thunder gets the natural "guaranteed" 3HKO (works 100% of the time, 34.3% of the time) and can double as a poor man's Thunder Wave, but the PP isn't great for either of those.

Hydro Pump is more powerful than Surf and it allows Starmie to land many KOs easier, notably allowing it to guarantee a 2HKO on Tyranitar and giving Starmie a good chance to KO Marowak

Hydro Pump's ability to OHKO Steelix is worth mentioning. There's some 3HKOs too (Zapdos & Machamp, also Snorlax with a Growth boost or in Rain), but honestly 8PP does not let you play for those.

Substitute can make it even harder for Cloyster to keep Spikes up by blocking Toxic or Explosion attempts, while also wasting Thunder PP from the likes of Zapdos and Raikou and blocking Giga Drain from Forretress and Exeggutor, as well as easing prediction against spin blockers.

I'm skeptical of Substitute. Not saying it shouldn't be in OO but its problems should perhaps be a bit more explicit. Classic Perish Trap Misdreavus is a problem for Substitute, as Mean Look goes through Sub. There's also the inconvenience of needing to abandon a substitute to stop Snorlax or Vaporeon from setting up.

In checks & counters:
Vaporeon sets up on Starmie if it isn't running Light Screen or Thunder(bolt). That can be quite dangerous.

Hidden Power Bug Forretress being able to beat Starmie 1-on-1 is perhaps worth a mention. Not that you'd ever switch it in, mind you.

Heracross threatens to OHKO Starmie. It functions very similarly to Electrics as a check to (non-Psychic) Starmie.

 

[Earthworm]

Psychic is another form of STAB that allows Starmie to take down Pokemon like Machamp and Tentacruel and prevents Gengar from spinblocking Starmie.

Change "prevents..." to "makes it more risky for Gengar trying to block Starmie's Rapid Spin."

Recover allows Starmie to stay healthy through out the match and consistently check what it needs to and pull Rapid Spin with less pressure from Spikes chip.

The "and pull.." part reads awkwardly, maybe just say "prevents it from being worn down as easily by Spikes and Toxic and makes it much harder to Pursuit trap." or something similar.

Starmie also likes Tyranitar's ability to be a decent check to Snorlax

Umbreon checks it pretty well too so please rephrase to make this clear.

Thunder or Thunderbolt can be used to hit Cloyster, Suicune, and Skarmory super effectively, but using it over psychic prevents Starmie from taking down Machamp and Gengar, which are both crucial Pokemon.

I would honestly just get rid of Thunderbolt. Psychic or Thunder are much better in virtually all cases I can think of.

**Ghost-types**: Ghost types like Gengar and Misdreavus are able to spinblock Starmie. in return, Gengar can 2HKO Starmie with Thunderbolt or Thunder or threaten to KO it with Explosion and Misdreavus can either 2HKO with Thunder or possibly Perish Trap it. Gengar with Thunder also has a chance to paralyze Starmie, which can let it win against Psychic Starmie. However, Gengar needs to come in completely to check Starmie, as it is weak to Psychic and greatly dislikes being paralyzed.

Gengar doesn't do these things "in return". I think it would be best to say that in order to keep Spikes up against a Starmie, Gengar can come in on a predicted Rapid Spin and then either switch out to Zapdos on a predicted Psychic or stay in and use Thunder/bolt, Explosion, or Hypnosis. Also mention that Gengar risks taking around 80% of its health from a non-CH Psychic by staying in. Gengar v Starmie is usually a very high stakes and critical matchup so I think the detail is warranted.

**Blissey**: Blissey boasts even higher Special bulk than Snorlax and has recovery in Softboiled, which lets it scoff at any of Starmie's attempts to damage it. Blissey also has access to Heal Bell, which cures all of it's teammates of paralysis, which makes supporting Starmie's team difficult.

Maybe mention before Heal Bell that Blissey threatens it with Toxic, Present, or Thunderbolt if it has any of those.

**Umbreon**: Umbreon's incredible Special bulk and Immunity to Psychic means that it completely walls Starmie, and Rest will get rid of any status Starmie inflicts it with. In return, Umbreon can inflict Starmie with Toxic or Pursuit trap it.

Starmie doesn't really get trapped by Pursuit Umbreon alone due to taking low damage from its Pursuit + Recover having 32 PP. You can say that if it has Toxic AND Pursuit it can trap it, and that if it doesn't have Toxic it can put pressure on a Starmie that has been poisoned by the Spiker with Pursuit by itself.

**Status**: Toxic, Poison, and Burn all wear down Starmie's HP overtime, forcing it to constantly use recover when at low HP. Paralysis slows down Starmie to the point where it is unable to reliably counter critical threats like Machamp and Charizard, making it much less useful.

I think this section should be scrapped and replaced with methods the spikers have to keep Spikes up against Starmie. I will discuss this with you a bit later.

Heal Bell as support for Starmie is perhaps a little overblown. It gets Recover to counteract Toxic without needing to spend 2 turns asleep, and it's generally very difficult to paralyze a Starmie. As such, it's generally not too bothered by status. At least not enough to feel compelled to run Heal Bell for its sake.

I agree that the superlatives like "incredibly" go a bit overboard but I think the fact that Starmie appreciates Heal Bell support should stay in team options.

In Other Options:
Reflect should be mentioned somewhere in the analysis. It neutralizes one of Starmie's chief switch-ins (Snorlax)! Sure, Curse Machamp gets past it with Surf as the STAB, but Reflect does slow it down so that it can't do so without losing most of its health in the process. Plus, it helps Starmie fight HP Bug Forretress and can be a "gotcha" for Cloyster trying to Explode on you.

Toxic is also not a bad option. If only because it's perhaps slightly better against Snorlax than Thunder Wave is.

Reflect is bad for several reasons. First, the most common play pattern involving Starmie is Cloyster gets in and Spikes as Starmie comes in, Cloyster either uses Toxic or switches to Zapdos/Raikou. Reflect is not useful at all in this scenario since if you were to use it you would either be allowing Spikes to stay up or putting Reflect up then having to switch to something that can tank a Thunder. Second, if you are staying in on a Snorlax to Reflect, you are most likely risking one of BSlam para, Double-Edge CH OHKO, Thunder + Para, LK, or Toxic. Third, in the vast majority of scenarios there is relatively little to gain from setting up Reflect on a Snorlax switch. Starmie is usually paired with Skarmory, which handles all physical attacks from Snorlax easily anyway. Against Curselax, very few Pokemon can actually take advantage of the Def boost to set up (imo, only Machamp and Rock-types -- these are the kinds of occasions Reflect Starmie might pay off, and often you will just run into another counter that attacks them from the Special side anyway). Fourth, not having Psychic, TWave, Substitute, or Light Screen (somewhat) means Starmie is much worse off against Gengar. Gengar is only becoming more common so I think this is a very important consideration. Toxic also falls under the "does nothing vs Gengar" category but is probably better than Reflect. This point is assuming you are replacing Psychic for Reflect.

To summarise that slab of nonsense, there are slim advantages to be gained from Reflect Starmie, it rarely has opportunities to use it, and there are going to be many occasions that you will miss having something that will harm Gengar in particular.

Overall I think Reflect is bad enough that it doesn't deserve a mention at all. However I will concede that it could be handy on a Machamp team or against a scary Firelax matchup.

I'm skeptical of Substitute. Not saying it shouldn't be in OO but its problems should perhaps be a bit more explicit. Classic Perish Trap Misdreavus is a problem for Substitute, as Mean Look goes through Sub. There's also the inconvenience of needing to abandon a substitute to stop Snorlax or Vaporeon from setting up.

I can attest to Substitute's effectiveness having used it extensively and having faced it. Vap is not a common switch into Starmie in the first place, and the kinds of teams this Starmie typically appears on (heavy stalls) will probably not need to abandon the Sub in most Starmie v Lax scenarios. However, the PTrap Missy point is a good one that hasn't come up for me yet and should probably be mentioned.

I more or less agree with everything else that I haven't quoted.

 

[Oldamar999]

QCed by Earthworm in Discord. image for proof

ready for QC 2

 

[FriendOfMrGolem120]

check many important Pokemon such as Steelix, Tyranitar, Marowak, Nidoking, and Rhydon

I personally would change the order to reflect which mons it can check more safely than others. In other words I would put Rhydon either after Steelix or Tyranitar. If you want to keep the current order it is completely fine though.

Furthermore, I also believe that the best "other options" should be listed at first as well.
Thunder, Light Screen, Substitute, Hydro Pump, Toxic, Reflect, Ice Beam, (Confuse Ray) would be my order (I strongly believe Thunder is the bext OO, Light Screen and Substitute might be close to even, the rest doesn't matter as much but I'd put Hydro 4th as well).
To me Reflect deserves a mention but I can totally understand why others don't agree with that and I don't feel strongly about it so would also give my approval if you don't include it. If you decide to include it, make sure to explain its drawbacks and why it is rarely used.
Confuse-Ray is an absolut gimmick but parafusion can be really annoying. It probably shouldn't be mentioned but I just wanted to bring the possibility on the table.

blocking Giga Drain from Forretress and Exeggutor

I'd switch the order here as well since Giga Drain from Forretress is not a threat. Maybe even remove Forretress entirely from that sentence. At least I would point out that Starmie doesn't need to worry about it anyway (only about a possible Explosion).

**Blissey**: Blissey boasts even higher Special bulk than Snorlax and has recovery in Softboiled, which lets it scoff at any of Starmie's attempts to damage it and threatens Starmie with Toxic, Present, or Thunderbolt.

I think Thunder is more common than Thunderbolt but both moves are rare since Present has been implemented since that can threaten Cloyster as well as Vaporeon which is unlikely to be 3HKO'd even if all Thunders hit. "threatens Starmie with Toxic, Present, or even Thunder/Thunderbolt." would be my suggestion.

Great analysis overall, especially how you pointed out the synergy with sweepers if you use Thunder Wave and which options Spikers have to keep Spikes on the field.

 

[Oldamar999]

I personally would change the order to reflect which mons it can check more safely than others. In other words I would put Rhydon either after Steelix or Tyranitar. If you want to keep the current order it is completely fine though.

Furthermore, I also believe that the best "other options" should be listed at first as well.
Thunder, Light Screen, Substitute, Hydro Pump, Toxic, Reflect, Ice Beam, (Confuse Ray) would be my order (I strongly believe Thunder is the bext OO, Light Screen and Substitute might be close to even, the rest doesn't matter as much but I'd put Hydro 4th as well).
To me Reflect deserves a mention but I can totally understand why others don't agree with that and I don't feel strongly about it so would also give my approval if you don't include it. If you decide to include it, make sure to explain its drawbacks and why it is rarely used.
Confuse-Ray is an absolut gimmick but parafusion can be really annoying. It probably shouldn't be mentioned but I just wanted to bring the possibility on the table.


I'd switch the order here as well since Giga Drain from Forretress is not a threat. Maybe even remove Forretress entirely from that sentence. At least I would point out that Starmie doesn't need to worry about it anyway (only about a possible Explosion).


I think Thunder is more common than Thunderbolt but both moves are rare since Present has been implemented since that can threaten Cloyster as well as Vaporeon which is unlikely to be 3HKO'd even if all Thunders hit. "threatens Starmie with Toxic, Present, or even Thunder/Thunderbolt." would be my suggestion.

Great analysis overall, especially how you pointed out the synergy with sweepers if you use Thunder Wave and which options Spikers have to keep Spikes on the field.

implemented your suggestions. Fear said he would give a QC 2/2 after I implemented these so just tagging him here.

 

[FriendOfMrGolem120]

Thunder can be used to hit Cloyster, Suicune, and Vaporeon

I'd list Vaporeon before Suicune since the latter is mainly a defensive mon that is often not as threatening to Starmie teams and just functions as a solid wall while Vaporeon is a very dangerous threat.

Reflect can be used to help soften blows from Snorlax, which Starmie allows in almost for free, and can also be used on turns where Explosion is anticipated. However, Reflect leaves Starmie more vulnerable to Gengar, does nothing against Electric-types, which are also common answers, and fails to reliably protect itself from Snorlax as it still risks Paralysis from Body Slam or Thunder, Sleep from Lovely Kiss, and can be OHKOed by a critical hit from Double Edge.

Reflect also can help you to set up DrumLax or Marowak a few turns later. For example, you use Reflect while the opponent switches to a sleeping or paralysed electric. Then you switch to Snorlax and the opponent stays asleep, is fully paralysed or uses HpIce (doesn't hit you with Thunder). If you use Belly Drum on the next turn and your opponent switches to an exploder, your Snorlax might be out of Explosion range due to Reflect.
That is the most optimal situation for it of course and usually Thunder Wave is better support for Marowak/DrumLax.
tl;dr: "It can also support setup sweepers like Belly Drum Snorlax or Swords Dance Marowak by putting them out of range of physical attacks, most notably Explosion, in specific situations. " or something like that.
(keep everything you said, I'd just add what I said above)

 

[Oldamar999]

I'd list Vaporeon before Suicune since the latter is mainly a defensive mon that is often not as threatening to Starmie teams and just functions as a solid wall while Vaporeon is a very dangerous threat.


Reflect also can help you to set up DrumLax or Marowak a few turns later. For example, you use Reflect while the opponent switches to a sleeping or paralysed electric. Then you switch to Snorlax and the opponent stays asleep, is fully paralysed or uses HpIce (doesn't hit you with Thunder). If you use Belly Drum on the next turn and your opponent switches to an exploder, your Snorlax might be out of Explosion range due to Reflect.
That is the most optimal situation for it of course and usually Thunder Wave is better support for Marowak/DrumLax.
tl;dr: "It can also support setup sweepers like Belly Drum Snorlax or Swords Dance Marowak by putting them out of range of physical attacks, most notably Explosion, in specific situations. " or something like that.
(keep everything you said, I'd just add what I said above)

I added this too

 

[Fear]

Q/C 2/2
This is well written.

 

[Oldamar999]

Q/C 2/2
This is well written.

Thanks! this is ready for GP

 

[deetah]

This is an amcheck. Feel free to use what you would like from this. Add Remove Comments (AC) = Add Comma (RC) = Remove Comma (AP) = Add Period (AS) = Add Space (RS) = Remove Space (AH) = Add Hyphen (AA) = Add Apostrophe

amcheck

[OVERVIEW]

With an amazing base 115 Speed, a good Water (AS) / (AS) Psychic typing, reliable recovery, and a great support movepool consisting of moves like Thunder Wave and the coveted Rapid Spin, Starmie is very much a solid Pokemon. Starmie's access to Rapid Spin is massively helpful for many teams as it can prevent Starmie's team from being worn down overtime, and Starmie it (Starmie was a bit repetitive here) is easily the most consistent Rapid Spin user in the tier due to it's ability to threaten all Spikes setters and Spin Blockers. Additionally, Starmie's typing gives it useful resistances to types such as Fighting-, Ice-, and Psychic-types. and that That combined with it's its great Speed tier and access to Recover allows it to counter critical offensive threats like Machamp and Charizard as well as letting it check many important Pokemon such as Steelix, Tyranitar, Rhydon, Marowak, and Nidoking. However, Starmie struggles to do any significant damage to the very common Raikou and Zapdos as well as the ubiquitous Snorlax, all of which pose a massive threat to Starmie. Therefore, Starmie does not usually run offensive sets and tends to run a more defensive set with Rapid Spin and Thunder Wave utility. Unfortunately, this can prove to be problematic due to Starmie's below average bulk and constant need to use Recover or Rapid Spin, which can give free turns to extremely dangerous Pokemon Such as Snorlax, Zapdos, and Exeggutor.

[SET]
name: Rapid Spin
move 1: Surf
move 2: Psychic / Thunder Wave
move 3: Rapid Spin
move 4: Recover
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Surf is Starmie's preferred Water STAB as it hits Pokemon like Steelix, Tyranitar, Rhydon, and Charizard. Psychic is another form of STAB that allows Starmie to take down Pokemon like Machamp and Tentacruel and makes it more risky for Gengar trying to block Starmie's Rapid Spin. Thunder Wave can be run over Psychic to support Starmie’s team, particularly slow but powerful attackers like Belly Drum Snorlax, Marowak, and Machamp, by slowing down faster Pokemon like Raikou and Zapdos and forcing Rest easier, making them much easier to handle. However, dropping Psychic reduces Starmie's ability to counter Machamp and hurt Cloyster. Rapid Spin removes Spikes from Starmie's side of the field, preventing it and its team from being gradually worn down as the match goes on. Recover allows Starmie to stay healthy through (RS) out the match and consistently check what it needs to, (AC) and prevents preventing it from being worn down as easily by Spikes and Toxic, as well as making it much harder to Pursuit trap.

There are three main strategies that the Spikers can use to keep Spikes up against Starmie. Toxic can be used to force Starmie to eventually Recover, which gives the Spikers a window of opportunity to either explode on Starmie or switch to an Electric-type. Ghost-types can switch into a predicted Rapid Spin from Starmie, then either attempt to beat it with Hypnosis, Thunder, Thunderbolt, Mean Look + Perish Song, or Explosion, or they can immediately switch out again to Zapdos or Raikou, (RC) (AP). forcing This forces Starmie out and preserving preserves both Spikes and the Ghost-type's HP if Starmie chooses a STAB attack. (Broke up one really long sentence into two for better flow) Lastly, Forretress can use HP Hidden Power Bug as Starmie attempts to spin, which just barely does enough that Starmie is unable to Recover it off safely in the long run.

Team Options
========

Slow but powerful attackers like Marowak, Belly Drum Snorlax, and Machamp greatly appreciate Starmie's Rapid Spin support as it increases their longevity; all of these Pokemon also like Starmie's ability to support them with Thunder Wave to slow down faster threats. Since Starmie is heavily threatened by Snorlax, Skarmory makes for a great partner due to it's its ability to reliably check most Snorlax sets barring barred mixed sets, and doubles as a reliable answer to Heracross. Skarmory appreciates Starmie's ability to remove spikes against Cloyster, which tends to take advantage of Skarmory to set up spikes. Starmie also detests Electric-types, so good answers to them like Raikou and Blissey are very helpful. Both of these Pokemon greatly appreciate Rapid Spin support, and Starmie appreciates Blissey's ability to cure it of status with Heal Bell. Starmie is very vulnerable to status, so cleric support from the likes of Miltank and Blissey is quite helpful; Starmie especially appreciates Miltank's ability to both cure it of status and check curse and mixed variants of Snorlax decently. Spinblockers like Gengar and Misdreavus can be very annoying for Starmie as they prevent it from removing Spikes, so Pursuit trappers like Tyranitar and Umbreon are greatly appreciated; Tyranitar and Umbreon also double as decent checks to Snorlax.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Thunder can be used to hit Cloyster, Vaporeon, and Suicune super effectively, but using it over Psychic makes taking down Machamp and Gengar, two crucial Pokemon, much harder to defeat more challenging. Light Screen allows Starmie to become a near perfect counter to Vaporeon and helps it's its teammates by doubling their Special Defense. Substitute can make it even harder for Cloyster to keep Spikes up by blocking Toxic or Explosion attempts, while also wasting Thunder PP from the likes of Zapdos and Raikou and blocking Giga Drain from Exeggutor, as well as easing prediction against spin blockers. However, both Light Screen and Substitute remove crucial coverage, so they are less than ideal. Hydro Pump is more powerful than Surf and it allows Starmie to land many KOs easier, notably allowing it to guarantee a 2HKO on Tyranitar, a good chance to KO Marowak, and a guaranteed OHKO on Steelix. However, Hydro Pump's unreliable accuracy and lower PP mean that Surf is often the better option. Toxic can force typical counters like Snorlax and Zapdos to eventually use Rest, but if used over Psychic, Gengar becomes a much greater threat and leaves it as setup fodder for Tentacruel. Reflect can be used to help soften blows from Snorlax, which Starmie allows in almost for free, and can also be used on turns where Explosion is anticipated, (RC) (AP). It can also support setup sweepers like Belly Drum Snorlax or Swords Dance Marowak by putting them out of range of physical attacks, most notably Explosion, in specific situations. However, Reflect leaves Starmie more vulnerable to Gengar, does nothing against Electric-types, which are also common answers, and fails to reliably protect itself from Snorlax as it still risks Paralysis paralysis from Body Slam or Thunder, Sleep sleep from Lovely Kiss, and can be OHKOed by a critical hit from Double Edge. Ice Beam lets Starmie super effectively hit Zapdos and Exeggutor, but it results in poor coverage if Starmie is using Rapid Spin, so it is usually only run on Growth pass recipient sets.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Snorlax**: Snorlax's absurd HP and Special Defense allows it to sponge Starmie's special attacks quite well. Snorlax can take advantage of this by using Starmie to set up Curse or Belly Drum, and threaten to deal significant damage with STAB moves like Body Slam, Return, and Double Edge; Body Slam also has a 30% chance to paralyze Starmie, which would significantly hinder its capabilities if it doesn't have Heal Bell support. (AP)

**Electric-types**: Electric-types such as Raikou and Zapdos can all tank any of Starmie's moves and can take it down with their Super-Effective super effective STAB moves, and If if they are running RestTalk, the threat of paralysis from Starmie is also less of a concern.

**Grass-types**: Grass-types (AH) like Exeggutor and Meganium resist both or one of Starmie's STABs respectively and force it out with their Grass-type STAB moves. Exeggutor can also either paralyze Starmie or put it to Sleep sleep, which massively hinders or even flat out removes Starmie's ability to remove Spikes or check powerful Pokemon. However, neither of them run rest Rest, so they should try to avoid switching into Starmie's Thunder Wave.

**Ghost-types**: Ghost-types (AH) like Gengar and Misdreavus are able to spinblock Starmie. While the standard Psychic Starmie beats 2HKOs Gengar and 3HKOs Misdreavus, the Ghost-types can switch in on a predicted Rapid Spin before either switching out or attempting to take it on. Specifically, Gengar can KO it Starmie with Explosion and Misdreavus can annoy Starmie it with Pain Split and possibly Perish Trap trap it, and both ghost types Ghost-types can put Starmie to Sleep sleep with Hypnosis and 2HKO it with Thunder. (Switched around "Starmie" and "it" because it flows a bit better) The potential paralysis from Thunder can also turn the tables on Starmie, as it helps Gengar defeat Psychic variants much easier. However, Gengar needs to come in completely healthy to check Starmie, as it is weak to Psychic and greatly dislikes being paralyzed.

**Blissey**: Blissey boasts even higher Special bulk than Snorlax and has recovery in Softboiled Soft-Boiled, which lets it scoff at any of Starmie's attempts to damage it and threatens Starmie with Toxic, Present, or even Thunder or Thunderbolt. Blissey also has access to Heal Bell, which can undo all of Starmie's paralysis-spreading efforts.

**Umbreon**: Umbreon's incredible Special bulk and Immunity immunity to Psychic means that it completely walls Starmie, and Rest will get rid of any status Starmie inflicts it with. In return, Umbreon can inflict Starmie with Toxic and Pursuit trap it if it has both moves, or Pursuit trap Starmie if it has already been inflicted with Toxic.

**Vaporeon**: Vaporeon resists Surf, takes very little damage from Psychic, and is able to cure any status inflicted on it with Rest, which lets Vaporeon use Starmie as Setup Fodder, which is extremely dangerous. However, Vaporeon needs to be cautious about Special Defense Drops drops from Psychic, and it has difficulties setting up against Starmie if it has Light Screen or Thunder.

**Heracross**: If Starmie isn't running Psychic, Heracross threatens to OHKO Starmie with STAB Megahorn and remove status with Rest. However, Heracross can only truly check Starmie if it doesn't (AA) have Psychic, as it is 2HKOed by the move.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Oldamar999, 453750]]
- Quality checked by: [[Earthworm,15210], [Fear, 2005]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]

 

[Oldamar999]

This is an amcheck. Feel free to use what you would like from this. Add Remove Comments (AC) = Add Comma (RC) = Remove Comma (AP) = Add Period (AS) = Add Space (RS) = Remove Space (AH) = Add Hyphen (AA) = Add Apostrophe

amcheck

[OVERVIEW]

With an amazing base 115 Speed, a good Water (AS) / (AS) Psychic typing, reliable recovery, and a great support movepool consisting of moves like Thunder Wave and the coveted Rapid Spin, Starmie is very much a solid Pokemon. Starmie's access to Rapid Spin is massively helpful for many teams as it can prevent Starmie's team from being worn down overtime, and Starmie it (Starmie was a bit repetitive here) is easily the most consistent Rapid Spin user in the tier due to it's ability to threaten all Spikes setters and Spin Blockers. Additionally, Starmie's typing gives it useful resistances to types such as Fighting-, Ice-, and Psychic-types. and that That combined with it's its great Speed tier and access to Recover allows it to counter critical offensive threats like Machamp and Charizard as well as letting it check many important Pokemon such as Steelix, Tyranitar, Rhydon, Marowak, and Nidoking. However, Starmie struggles to do any significant damage to the very common Raikou and Zapdos as well as the ubiquitous Snorlax, all of which pose a massive threat to Starmie. Therefore, Starmie does not usually run offensive sets and tends to run a more defensive set with Rapid Spin and Thunder Wave utility. Unfortunately, this can prove to be problematic due to Starmie's below average bulk and constant need to use Recover or Rapid Spin, which can give free turns to extremely dangerous Pokemon Such as Snorlax, Zapdos, and Exeggutor.

[SET]
name: Rapid Spin
move 1: Surf
move 2: Psychic / Thunder Wave
move 3: Rapid Spin
move 4: Recover
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Surf is Starmie's preferred Water STAB as it hits Pokemon like Steelix, Tyranitar, Rhydon, and Charizard. Psychic is another form of STAB that allows Starmie to take down Pokemon like Machamp and Tentacruel and makes it more risky for Gengar trying to block Starmie's Rapid Spin. Thunder Wave can be run over Psychic to support Starmie’s team, particularly slow but powerful attackers like Belly Drum Snorlax, Marowak, and Machamp, by slowing down faster Pokemon like Raikou and Zapdos and forcing Rest easier, making them much easier to handle. However, dropping Psychic reduces Starmie's ability to counter Machamp and hurt Cloyster. Rapid Spin removes Spikes from Starmie's side of the field, preventing it and its team from being gradually worn down as the match goes on. Recover allows Starmie to stay healthy through (RS) out the match and consistently check what it needs to, (AC) and prevents preventing it from being worn down as easily by Spikes and Toxic, as well as making it much harder to Pursuit trap.

There are three main strategies that the Spikers can use to keep Spikes up against Starmie. Toxic can be used to force Starmie to eventually Recover, which gives the Spikers a window of opportunity to either explode on Starmie or switch to an Electric-type. Ghost-types can switch into a predicted Rapid Spin from Starmie, then either attempt to beat it with Hypnosis, Thunder, Thunderbolt, Mean Look + Perish Song, or Explosion, or they can immediately switch out again to Zapdos or Raikou, (RC) (AP). forcing This forces Starmie out and preserving preserves both Spikes and the Ghost-type's HP if Starmie chooses a STAB attack. (Broke up one really long sentence into two for better flow) Lastly, Forretress can use HP Hidden Power Bug as Starmie attempts to spin, which just barely does enough that Starmie is unable to Recover it off safely in the long run.

Team Options
========

Slow but powerful attackers like Marowak, Belly Drum Snorlax, and Machamp greatly appreciate Starmie's Rapid Spin support as it increases their longevity; all of these Pokemon also like Starmie's ability to support them with Thunder Wave to slow down faster threats. Since Starmie is heavily threatened by Snorlax, Skarmory makes for a great partner due to it's its ability to reliably check most Snorlax sets barring barred mixed sets, and doubles as a reliable answer to Heracross. Skarmory appreciates Starmie's ability to remove spikes against Cloyster, which tends to take advantage of Skarmory to set up spikes. Starmie also detests Electric-types, so good answers to them like Raikou and Blissey are very helpful. Both of these Pokemon greatly appreciate Rapid Spin support, and Starmie appreciates Blissey's ability to cure it of status with Heal Bell. Starmie is very vulnerable to status, so cleric support from the likes of Miltank and Blissey is quite helpful; Starmie especially appreciates Miltank's ability to both cure it of status and check curse and mixed variants of Snorlax decently. Spinblockers like Gengar and Misdreavus can be very annoying for Starmie as they prevent it from removing Spikes, so Pursuit trappers like Tyranitar and Umbreon are greatly appreciated; Tyranitar and Umbreon also double as decent checks to Snorlax.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Thunder can be used to hit Cloyster, Vaporeon, and Suicune super effectively, but using it over Psychic makes taking down Machamp and Gengar, two crucial Pokemon, much harder to defeat more challenging. Light Screen allows Starmie to become a near perfect counter to Vaporeon and helps it's its teammates by doubling their Special Defense. Substitute can make it even harder for Cloyster to keep Spikes up by blocking Toxic or Explosion attempts, while also wasting Thunder PP from the likes of Zapdos and Raikou and blocking Giga Drain from Exeggutor, as well as easing prediction against spin blockers. However, both Light Screen and Substitute remove crucial coverage, so they are less than ideal. Hydro Pump is more powerful than Surf and it allows Starmie to land many KOs easier, notably allowing it to guarantee a 2HKO on Tyranitar, a good chance to KO Marowak, and a guaranteed OHKO on Steelix. However, Hydro Pump's unreliable accuracy and lower PP mean that Surf is often the better option. Toxic can force typical counters like Snorlax and Zapdos to eventually use Rest, but if used over Psychic, Gengar becomes a much greater threat and leaves it as setup fodder for Tentacruel. Reflect can be used to help soften blows from Snorlax, which Starmie allows in almost for free, and can also be used on turns where Explosion is anticipated, (RC) (AP). It can also support setup sweepers like Belly Drum Snorlax or Swords Dance Marowak by putting them out of range of physical attacks, most notably Explosion, in specific situations. However, Reflect leaves Starmie more vulnerable to Gengar, does nothing against Electric-types, which are also common answers, and fails to reliably protect itself from Snorlax as it still risks Paralysis paralysis from Body Slam or Thunder, Sleep sleep from Lovely Kiss, and can be OHKOed by a critical hit from Double Edge. Ice Beam lets Starmie super effectively hit Zapdos and Exeggutor, but it results in poor coverage if Starmie is using Rapid Spin, so it is usually only run on Growth pass recipient sets.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Snorlax**: Snorlax's absurd HP and Special Defense allows it to sponge Starmie's special attacks quite well. Snorlax can take advantage of this by using Starmie to set up Curse or Belly Drum, and threaten to deal significant damage with STAB moves like Body Slam, Return, and Double Edge; Body Slam also has a 30% chance to paralyze Starmie, which would significantly hinder its capabilities if it doesn't have Heal Bell support. (AP)

**Electric-types**: Electric-types such as Raikou and Zapdos can all tank any of Starmie's moves and can take it down with their Super-Effective super effective STAB moves, and If if they are running RestTalk, the threat of paralysis from Starmie is also less of a concern.

**Grass-types**: Grass-types (AH) like Exeggutor and Meganium resist both or one of Starmie's STABs respectively and force it out with their Grass-type STAB moves. Exeggutor can also either paralyze Starmie or put it to Sleep sleep, which massively hinders or even flat out removes Starmie's ability to remove Spikes or check powerful Pokemon. However, neither of them run rest Rest, so they should try to avoid switching into Starmie's Thunder Wave.

**Ghost-types**: Ghost-types (AH) like Gengar and Misdreavus are able to spinblock Starmie. While the standard Psychic Starmie beats 2HKOs Gengar and 3HKOs Misdreavus, the Ghost-types can switch in on a predicted Rapid Spin before either switching out or attempting to take it on. Specifically, Gengar can KO it Starmie with Explosion and Misdreavus can annoy Starmie it with Pain Split and possibly Perish Trap trap it, and both ghost types Ghost-types can put Starmie to Sleep sleep with Hypnosis and 2HKO it with Thunder. (Switched around "Starmie" and "it" because it flows a bit better) The potential paralysis from Thunder can also turn the tables on Starmie, as it helps Gengar defeat Psychic variants much easier. However, Gengar needs to come in completely healthy to check Starmie, as it is weak to Psychic and greatly dislikes being paralyzed.

**Blissey**: Blissey boasts even higher Special bulk than Snorlax and has recovery in Softboiled Soft-Boiled, which lets it scoff at any of Starmie's attempts to damage it and threatens Starmie with Toxic, Present, or even Thunder or Thunderbolt. Blissey also has access to Heal Bell, which can undo all of Starmie's paralysis-spreading efforts.

**Umbreon**: Umbreon's incredible Special bulk and Immunity immunity to Psychic means that it completely walls Starmie, and Rest will get rid of any status Starmie inflicts it with. In return, Umbreon can inflict Starmie with Toxic and Pursuit trap it if it has both moves, or Pursuit trap Starmie if it has already been inflicted with Toxic.

**Vaporeon**: Vaporeon resists Surf, takes very little damage from Psychic, and is able to cure any status inflicted on it with Rest, which lets Vaporeon use Starmie as Setup Fodder, which is extremely dangerous. However, Vaporeon needs to be cautious about Special Defense Drops drops from Psychic, and it has difficulties setting up against Starmie if it has Light Screen or Thunder.

**Heracross**: If Starmie isn't running Psychic, Heracross threatens to OHKO Starmie with STAB Megahorn and remove status with Rest. However, Heracross can only truly check Starmie if it doesn't (AA) have Psychic, as it is 2HKOed by the move.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Oldamar999, 453750]]
- Quality checked by: [[Earthworm,15210], [Fear, 2005]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]

implemented. thank you

 

[Lumari]

remove add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)
GP 1/2

check

[OVERVIEW]

With an amazing base 115 Speed, a good Water / Psychic typing, reliable recovery, and a great support movepool consisting of moves like Thunder Wave and the coveted Rapid Spin, Starmie is very much a solid Pokemon. Starmie's access to Rapid Spin is massively helpful for many teams, (AC) as it can prevent Starmie's team from being worn down overtime, and it Starmie is easily the most consistent Rapid Spin user in the tier due to it's its ability to threaten all Spikes setters and Spin Blockers spinblockers. Additionally, Starmie's typing gives it useful resistances to Fighting-, Ice-, and Psychic-type moves. That combined with its great Speed tier and access to Recover allows it to counter critical offensive threats like Machamp and Charizard as well as letting it check many important Pokemon such as Steelix, Tyranitar, Rhydon, Marowak, and Nidoking. However, Starmie struggles to do any significant damage to the very common Raikou and Zapdos as well as the ubiquitous Snorlax, all of which pose a massive threat to Starmie it. Therefore, Starmie does not usually run offensive sets and tends to run a more defensive set with Rapid Spin and Thunder Wave utility. Unfortunately, this can prove to be problematic due to Starmie's below average bulk and constant need to use Recover or Rapid Spin, which can give free turns to extremely dangerous Pokemon such as Snorlax, Zapdos, and Exeggutor.

[SET]
name: Rapid Spin
move 1: Surf
move 2: Psychic / Thunder Wave
move 3: Rapid Spin
move 4: Recover
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Surf is Starmie's preferred Water STAB attack, (AC) as it hits Pokemon like Steelix, Tyranitar, Rhydon, and Charizard. Psychic is another form of STAB that allows Starmie to take down Pokemon like Machamp and Tentacruel and makes it more risky for Gengar trying to block Starmie's Rapid Spin. Thunder Wave can be run over Psychic to support Starmie’s team, particularly slow but powerful attackers like Belly Drum Snorlax, Marowak, and Machamp, by slowing down faster Pokemon like Raikou and Zapdos and forcing Rest easier more easily, making them much easier to handle. However, dropping Psychic reduces Starmie's ability to counter Machamp and hurt Cloyster. Rapid Spin removes Spikes from Starmie's side of the field, preventing it and its team from being gradually worn down as the match goes on. Recover allows Starmie to stay healthy throughout the match and consistently check what it needs to, preventing it from being worn down as easily by Spikes and Toxic, as well as making it much harder to Pursuit trap.

There are three main strategies that the Spikers can use to keep Spikes up against Starmie. Toxic can be used to force Starmie to eventually use Recover, which gives the Spikers a window of opportunity to either explode on Starmie or switch to an Electric-type. Ghost-types can switch into a predicted Rapid Spin from Starmie (RC) then and either attempt to beat it with Hypnosis, Thunder, Thunderbolt, Mean Look + Perish Song, or Explosion (RC) or they can immediately switch out again to Zapdos or Raikou. This forces Starmie out and preserves both Spikes and the Ghost-type's HP even if Starmie chooses a STAB attack. Lastly, Forretress can use Hidden Power Bug as Starmie attempts to spin, which just barely does enough that Starmie is unable to Recover it off safely in the long run.

Team Options
========

Slow but powerful attackers like Marowak, Belly Drum Snorlax, and Machamp greatly appreciate Starmie's Rapid Spin support, (AC) as it increases their longevity; all of these Pokemon also like Starmie's ability to support them with Thunder Wave to slow down faster threats. Since Starmie is heavily threatened by Snorlax, Skarmory makes for a great partner due to its ability to reliably check most Snorlax sets, (AC) barred barring mixed sets, and doubles as a reliable answer to Heracross. Skarmory appreciates Starmie's ability to remove Spikes against Cloyster, which tends to take advantage of Skarmory to set up Spikes. Starmie also detests Electric-types, so good answers to them like Raikou and Blissey are very helpful. Both of these Pokemon greatly appreciate Rapid Spin support, and Starmie appreciates Blissey's ability to cure it of status with Heal Bell. Starmie is very vulnerable to status, so cleric support from the likes of Miltank and Blissey is quite helpful; Starmie especially appreciates Miltank's ability to both cure it of status and check Curse and mixed variants of Snorlax decently. Spinblockers like Gengar and Misdreavus can be very annoying for Starmie, (AC) as they prevent it from removing Spikes, so Pursuit trappers like Tyranitar and Umbreon are greatly appreciated; Tyranitar and Umbreon also double as decent checks to Snorlax.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Thunder can be used to hit Cloyster, Vaporeon, and Suicune super effectively, but using it over Psychic makes taking down Machamp and Gengar, two crucial Pokemon, much more challenging. Light Screen allows Starmie to become a near-perfect (AH) counter to Vaporeon and helps its teammates by doubling their Special Defense. Substitute can make it even harder for Cloyster to keep Spikes up by blocking Toxic or Explosion attempts (RC) while also wasting Thunder PP from the likes of Zapdos and Raikou and blocking Giga Drain from Exeggutor, as well as easing prediction against spin blockers spinblockers. However, both Light Screen and Substitute remove crucial coverage, so they are less than ideal. Hydro Pump is more powerful than Surf and it allows Starmie to land many KOs easier more easily, notably allowing granting it to a guaranteed a 2HKO on Tyranitar, a good chance to KO Marowak, and a guaranteed OHKO on Steelix. However, Hydro Pump's unreliable accuracy and lower PP mean that Surf is often the better option. Toxic can force typical counters like Snorlax and Zapdos to eventually use Rest, but if it's used over Psychic, Gengar becomes a much greater threat, (AC) and leaves it as Starmie is left setup fodder for Tentacruel. Reflect can be used to help soften blows from Snorlax, which Starmie allows in almost for free, and can also be used on turns where Explosion is anticipated. It can also support setup sweepers like Belly Drum Snorlax or Swords Dance Marowak by putting them out of range of physical attacks, most notably Explosion, in specific situations. However, Reflect leaves Starmie more vulnerable to Gengar, does nothing against Electric-types, which are also common answers, and fails to reliably protect itself from Snorlax, (AC) as it still risks paralysis from Body Slam or Thunder, sleep from Lovely Kiss, and can be a OHKOed by from a critical hit from Double-Edge. (AH) Ice Beam lets Starmie super effectively hit Zapdos and Exeggutor, but it results in poor coverage if Starmie is using Rapid Spin, so it is usually only run on Growth Pass recipient sets.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Snorlax**: Snorlax's absurd HP and Special Defense allows allow it to sponge Starmie's special attacks quite well. Snorlax can take advantage of this by using Starmie to set up Curse or Belly Drum (RC) and threaten to deal significant damage with STAB moves like Body Slam, Return, and Double-Edge; (AH) Body Slam also has a 30% chance to paralyze Starmie, which would significantly hinder its capabilities if it doesn't have Heal Bell support.

**Electric-types**: Electric-types such as Raikou and Zapdos can tank any of Starmie's moves and can take it down with their super effective STAB moves, and if they are running RestTalk, the threat of paralysis from Starmie is also less of a concern.

**Grass-types**: Grass-types like Exeggutor and Meganium resist both or one of Starmie's STAB attacks respectively and force it out with their Grass-type own STAB moves. Exeggutor can also either paralyze Starmie or put it to sleep, which massively hinders or even flat out removes Starmie's ability to remove Spikes or check powerful Pokemon. However, neither of them run runs Rest, so they should try to avoid switching into Starmie's Thunder Wave.

**Ghost-types**: Ghost-types like Gengar and Misdreavus are able to spinblock Starmie. While the standard Psychic Starmie 2HKOs 2HKOes Gengar and 3HKOs 3HKOes Misdreavus, they can switch in on a predicted Rapid Spin before either switching out or attempting to take it on. Specifically, Gengar can KO Starmie with Explosion, (AC) and Misdreavus can annoy it with Pain Split and possibly Perish trap it, and both can put Starmie to sleep with Hypnosis and 2HKO it with Thunder. The potential paralysis from Thunder can also turn the tables on Starmie, as it helps Gengar defeat Psychic variants much easier more easily. However, Gengar needs to come in completely healthy to check Starmie, as it is weak to Psychic and greatly dislikes being paralyzed.

**Blissey**: Blissey boasts even higher special bulk than Snorlax, (AC) and has recovery in Soft-Boiled, which lets it to scoff at any of Starmie's attempts to damage it, (AC) and threatens Starmie with Toxic, Present, or even Thunder or Thunderbolt. Blissey also has access to Heal Bell, which can undo all of Starmie's paralysis spreading (RH) efforts.

**Umbreon**: Umbreon's incredible special bulk and immunity to Psychic means mean that it completely walls Starmie, and Rest will get rid of any status Starmie inflicts it with. In return, Umbreon can inflict Starmie with Toxic and Pursuit trap it if it has both moves, or Pursuit trap Starmie if it has already been inflicted with Toxic.

**Vaporeon**: Vaporeon resists Surf, takes very little damage from Psychic, and is able to cure any status inflicted on it with Rest, which lets Vaporeon use Starmie as setup fodder, which is extremely dangerous. However, Vaporeon needs to be cautious about Special Defense drops from Psychic, and it has difficulties setting up against Starmie if it has Light Screen or Thunder.

**Heracross**: If Starmie isn't running Psychic, Heracross threatens to OHKO Starmie with STAB Megahorn and remove status with Rest. However, Heracross can only truly check Starmie if it doesn't have Psychic, as it is 2HKOed by the move.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Oldamar999, 453750]]
- Quality checked by: [[Earthworm,15210], [Fear, 2005]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]

 

[Oldamar999]

remove add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)
GP 1/2

check

[OVERVIEW]

With an amazing base 115 Speed, a good Water / Psychic typing, reliable recovery, and a great support movepool consisting of moves like Thunder Wave and the coveted Rapid Spin, Starmie is very much a solid Pokemon. Starmie's access to Rapid Spin is massively helpful for many teams, (AC) as it can prevent Starmie's team from being worn down overtime, and it Starmie is easily the most consistent Rapid Spin user in the tier due to it's its ability to threaten all Spikes setters and Spin Blockers spinblockers. Additionally, Starmie's typing gives it useful resistances to Fighting-, Ice-, and Psychic-type moves. That combined with its great Speed tier and access to Recover allows it to counter critical offensive threats like Machamp and Charizard as well as letting it check many important Pokemon such as Steelix, Tyranitar, Rhydon, Marowak, and Nidoking. However, Starmie struggles to do any significant damage to the very common Raikou and Zapdos as well as the ubiquitous Snorlax, all of which pose a massive threat to Starmie it. Therefore, Starmie does not usually run offensive sets and tends to run a more defensive set with Rapid Spin and Thunder Wave utility. Unfortunately, this can prove to be problematic due to Starmie's below average bulk and constant need to use Recover or Rapid Spin, which can give free turns to extremely dangerous Pokemon such as Snorlax, Zapdos, and Exeggutor.

[SET]
name: Rapid Spin
move 1: Surf
move 2: Psychic / Thunder Wave
move 3: Rapid Spin
move 4: Recover
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Surf is Starmie's preferred Water STAB attack, (AC) as it hits Pokemon like Steelix, Tyranitar, Rhydon, and Charizard. Psychic is another form of STAB that allows Starmie to take down Pokemon like Machamp and Tentacruel and makes it more risky for Gengar trying to block Starmie's Rapid Spin. Thunder Wave can be run over Psychic to support Starmie’s team, particularly slow but powerful attackers like Belly Drum Snorlax, Marowak, and Machamp, by slowing down faster Pokemon like Raikou and Zapdos and forcing Rest easier more easily, making them much easier to handle. However, dropping Psychic reduces Starmie's ability to counter Machamp and hurt Cloyster. Rapid Spin removes Spikes from Starmie's side of the field, preventing it and its team from being gradually worn down as the match goes on. Recover allows Starmie to stay healthy throughout the match and consistently check what it needs to, preventing it from being worn down as easily by Spikes and Toxic, as well as making it much harder to Pursuit trap.

There are three main strategies that the Spikers can use to keep Spikes up against Starmie. Toxic can be used to force Starmie to eventually use Recover, which gives the Spikers a window of opportunity to either explode on Starmie or switch to an Electric-type. Ghost-types can switch into a predicted Rapid Spin from Starmie (RC) then and either attempt to beat it with Hypnosis, Thunder, Thunderbolt, Mean Look + Perish Song, or Explosion (RC) or they can immediately switch out again to Zapdos or Raikou. This forces Starmie out and preserves both Spikes and the Ghost-type's HP even if Starmie chooses a STAB attack. Lastly, Forretress can use Hidden Power Bug as Starmie attempts to spin, which just barely does enough that Starmie is unable to Recover it off safely in the long run.

Team Options
========

Slow but powerful attackers like Marowak, Belly Drum Snorlax, and Machamp greatly appreciate Starmie's Rapid Spin support, (AC) as it increases their longevity; all of these Pokemon also like Starmie's ability to support them with Thunder Wave to slow down faster threats. Since Starmie is heavily threatened by Snorlax, Skarmory makes for a great partner due to its ability to reliably check most Snorlax sets, (AC) barred barring mixed sets, and doubles as a reliable answer to Heracross. Skarmory appreciates Starmie's ability to remove Spikes against Cloyster, which tends to take advantage of Skarmory to set up Spikes. Starmie also detests Electric-types, so good answers to them like Raikou and Blissey are very helpful. Both of these Pokemon greatly appreciate Rapid Spin support, and Starmie appreciates Blissey's ability to cure it of status with Heal Bell. Starmie is very vulnerable to status, so cleric support from the likes of Miltank and Blissey is quite helpful; Starmie especially appreciates Miltank's ability to both cure it of status and check Curse and mixed variants of Snorlax decently. Spinblockers like Gengar and Misdreavus can be very annoying for Starmie, (AC) as they prevent it from removing Spikes, so Pursuit trappers like Tyranitar and Umbreon are greatly appreciated; Tyranitar and Umbreon also double as decent checks to Snorlax.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Thunder can be used to hit Cloyster, Vaporeon, and Suicune super effectively, but using it over Psychic makes taking down Machamp and Gengar, two crucial Pokemon, much more challenging. Light Screen allows Starmie to become a near-perfect (AH) counter to Vaporeon and helps its teammates by doubling their Special Defense. Substitute can make it even harder for Cloyster to keep Spikes up by blocking Toxic or Explosion attempts (RC) while also wasting Thunder PP from the likes of Zapdos and Raikou and blocking Giga Drain from Exeggutor, as well as easing prediction against spin blockers spinblockers. However, both Light Screen and Substitute remove crucial coverage, so they are less than ideal. Hydro Pump is more powerful than Surf and it allows Starmie to land many KOs easier more easily, notably allowing granting it to a guaranteed a 2HKO on Tyranitar, a good chance to KO Marowak, and a guaranteed OHKO on Steelix. However, Hydro Pump's unreliable accuracy and lower PP mean that Surf is often the better option. Toxic can force typical counters like Snorlax and Zapdos to eventually use Rest, but if it's used over Psychic, Gengar becomes a much greater threat, (AC) and leaves it as Starmie is left setup fodder for Tentacruel. Reflect can be used to help soften blows from Snorlax, which Starmie allows in almost for free, and can also be used on turns where Explosion is anticipated. It can also support setup sweepers like Belly Drum Snorlax or Swords Dance Marowak by putting them out of range of physical attacks, most notably Explosion, in specific situations. However, Reflect leaves Starmie more vulnerable to Gengar, does nothing against Electric-types, which are also common answers, and fails to reliably protect itself from Snorlax, (AC) as it still risks paralysis from Body Slam or Thunder, sleep from Lovely Kiss, and can be a OHKOed by from a critical hit from Double-Edge. (AH) Ice Beam lets Starmie super effectively hit Zapdos and Exeggutor, but it results in poor coverage if Starmie is using Rapid Spin, so it is usually only run on Growth Pass recipient sets.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Snorlax**: Snorlax's absurd HP and Special Defense allows allow it to sponge Starmie's special attacks quite well. Snorlax can take advantage of this by using Starmie to set up Curse or Belly Drum (RC) and threaten to deal significant damage with STAB moves like Body Slam, Return, and Double-Edge; (AH) Body Slam also has a 30% chance to paralyze Starmie, which would significantly hinder its capabilities if it doesn't have Heal Bell support.

**Electric-types**: Electric-types such as Raikou and Zapdos can tank any of Starmie's moves and can take it down with their super effective STAB moves, and if they are running RestTalk, the threat of paralysis from Starmie is also less of a concern.

**Grass-types**: Grass-types like Exeggutor and Meganium resist both or one of Starmie's STAB attacks respectively and force it out with their Grass-type own STAB moves. Exeggutor can also either paralyze Starmie or put it to sleep, which massively hinders or even flat out removes Starmie's ability to remove Spikes or check powerful Pokemon. However, neither of them run runs Rest, so they should try to avoid switching into Starmie's Thunder Wave.

**Ghost-types**: Ghost-types like Gengar and Misdreavus are able to spinblock Starmie. While the standard Psychic Starmie 2HKOs 2HKOes Gengar and 3HKOs 3HKOes Misdreavus, they can switch in on a predicted Rapid Spin before either switching out or attempting to take it on. Specifically, Gengar can KO Starmie with Explosion, (AC) and Misdreavus can annoy it with Pain Split and possibly Perish trap it, and both can put Starmie to sleep with Hypnosis and 2HKO it with Thunder. The potential paralysis from Thunder can also turn the tables on Starmie, as it helps Gengar defeat Psychic variants much easier more easily. However, Gengar needs to come in completely healthy to check Starmie, as it is weak to Psychic and greatly dislikes being paralyzed.

**Blissey**: Blissey boasts even higher special bulk than Snorlax, (AC) and has recovery in Soft-Boiled, which lets it to scoff at any of Starmie's attempts to damage it, (AC) and threatens Starmie with Toxic, Present, or even Thunder or Thunderbolt. Blissey also has access to Heal Bell, which can undo all of Starmie's paralysis spreading (RH) efforts.

**Umbreon**: Umbreon's incredible special bulk and immunity to Psychic means mean that it completely walls Starmie, and Rest will get rid of any status Starmie inflicts it with. In return, Umbreon can inflict Starmie with Toxic and Pursuit trap it if it has both moves, or Pursuit trap Starmie if it has already been inflicted with Toxic.

**Vaporeon**: Vaporeon resists Surf, takes very little damage from Psychic, and is able to cure any status inflicted on it with Rest, which lets Vaporeon use Starmie as setup fodder, which is extremely dangerous. However, Vaporeon needs to be cautious about Special Defense drops from Psychic, and it has difficulties setting up against Starmie if it has Light Screen or Thunder.

**Heracross**: If Starmie isn't running Psychic, Heracross threatens to OHKO Starmie with STAB Megahorn and remove status with Rest. However, Heracross can only truly check Starmie if it doesn't have Psychic, as it is 2HKOed by the move.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Oldamar999, 453750]]
- Quality checked by: [[Earthworm,15210], [Fear, 2005]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]

thank you, this is ready for GP 2

 

[Empress]

add remove comment

Here ya go

[OVERVIEW]

With an amazing base 115 Speed, a good Water / Psychic typing, reliable recovery, and a great support movepool consisting of moves like Thunder Wave and the coveted Rapid Spin, Starmie is very much a solid Pokemon. Starmie's access to Rapid Spin is massively helpful for many teams, as it can prevent Starmie's team from being worn down over(space)time, and Starmie is easily the most consistent Rapid Spin user in the tier due to its ability to threaten all Spikes setters Spikers and spinblockers. Additionally, Starmie's typing gives it useful resistances to Fighting-, Ice-, and Psychic-type moves. That, (AC) combined with its great Speed tier and access to Recover, (AC) allows it to counter critical offensive threats like Machamp and Charizard as well as letting it check many important Pokemon such as Steelix, Tyranitar, Rhydon, Marowak, and Nidoking. However, Starmie struggles to do any significant damage to the very common Raikou and Zapdos as well as the ubiquitous Snorlax, all of which pose a massive threat to it. Therefore, Starmie does not usually run offensive sets and tends to run a more defensive set with Rapid Spin and Thunder Wave utility. Unfortunately, this can prove to be problematic due to Starmie's below average bulk and constant need to use Recover or Rapid Spin, which can give free turns to extremely dangerous Pokemon such as Snorlax, Zapdos, and Exeggutor.

[SET]
name: Rapid Spin
move 1: Surf
move 2: Psychic / Thunder Wave
move 3: Rapid Spin
move 4: Recover
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Surf is Starmie's preferred Water-type STAB attack, as it hits hitting (What is it preferred over? And by the sounds of it, all Water-type moves can hit these foes anyway) Pokemon like Steelix, Tyranitar, Rhydon, and Charizard super effectively. Psychic is another form of STAB that allows Starmie to take down Pokemon like Machamp and Tentacruel and makes it more risky for Gengar trying to try to block Starmie's Rapid Spin. Thunder Wave can be run over Psychic to support Starmie’'(no curly apostrophes)s team, particularly slow but powerful attackers like Belly Drum Snorlax, Marowak, and Machamp, by slowing down faster Pokemon like Raikou and Zapdos and forcing them to use Rest more easily often (phrasing), making them much easier to handle. However, dropping Psychic reduces Starmie's ability to counter Machamp and hurt Cloyster. Rapid Spin removes Spikes from Starmie's side of the field, preventing it and its team from being gradually worn down as the match goes on. Recover allows Starmie to stay healthy throughout the match and consistently check what it needs to, preventing it from being worn down as easily by Spikes and Toxic, as well as making and make it much harder to Pursuit trap.

There are three main strategies that the Spikers can use to keep Spikes up against Starmie. Toxic can be used to force Starmie to eventually use Recover, which gives the Spikers a window of opportunity to either explode use Explosion on Starmie or switch to an Electric-type. Ghost-types can switch into a predicted Rapid Spin from Starmie and either attempt to beat it with Hypnosis, Thunder, Thunderbolt, Mean Look + Perish Song, or Explosion or immediately switch out again to Zapdos or Raikou. This forces Starmie out and preserves both Spikes and the Ghost-type's HP even if Starmie chooses a STAB attack. Lastly, Forretress can use Hidden Power Bug as Starmie attempts to spin, which just barely does enough damage so that Starmie is unable to Recover it off safely in the long run.

Team Options
========

Slow but powerful attackers like Marowak, Belly Drum Snorlax, and Machamp greatly appreciate Starmie's Rapid Spin support, as it increases their longevity; all of these Pokemon also like Starmie's ability to support them with Thunder Wave to slow down faster threats. Since Starmie is heavily threatened by Snorlax, Skarmory makes for a great partner due to its ability to reliably check most non-mixed Snorlax sets. barring mixed sets, and it doubles as a reliable answer to Heracross. Skarmory appreciates Starmie's ability to remove Spikes against Cloyster, which tends to take advantage of Skarmory to set up Spikes. Starmie also detests Electric-types, so good answers to them like Raikou and Blissey are very helpful. Both of these Pokemon greatly appreciate Rapid Spin support, and Starmie appreciates Blissey's ability to cure it of status with Heal Bell. Starmie is very vulnerable to status, so Miltank can also provide cleric support from the likes of Miltank and Blissey is quite helpful; (The ordering wasn't right, and the phrasing here can be cut down a bit, as you've already mentioned a cleric) Starmie also especially appreciates Miltank's ability to both cure it of status and check Curse and mixed variants of Snorlax decently. Spinblockers like Gengar and Misdreavus can be very annoying for Starmie, as they prevent it from removing Spikes, so Pursuit trappers like Tyranitar and Umbreon are greatly appreciated; Tyranitar and Umbreon also double as decent checks to Snorlax.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Thunder can be used to hit Cloyster, Vaporeon, and Suicune super effectively, but using it over Psychic makes taking down Machamp and Gengar, two crucial Pokemon, much more challenging. Light Screen allows Starmie to become a near-perfect counter to Vaporeon and helps its teammates by doubling their Special Defense. Substitute can make it even harder for Cloyster to keep Spikes up by blocking Toxic or Explosion attempts while also wasting Thunder PP from the likes of Zapdos and Raikou, (AC) and blocking Giga Drain from Exeggutor, as well as and (These were all subjective changes here; you can keep the original phrasing if you'd like) easing prediction against spinblockers. However, both Light Screen and Substitute remove crucial coverage, so they are less than ideal. Hydro Pump is more powerful than Surf and allows Starmie to land many KOs more easily, notably granting it a guaranteed 2HKO on Tyranitar, a good chance to (OH?)KO Marowak, and a guaranteed OHKO on Steelix. However, Hydro Pump's unreliable accuracy and lower PP mean that Surf is often the better option. Toxic can force typical counters like Snorlax and Zapdos to eventually use Rest, but if it's used over Psychic, Gengar becomes a much greater threat, and Starmie is left becomes setup fodder for Tentacruel. Reflect can be used to help soften blows from Snorlax, which Starmie allows in almost for free, and can also be used on turns where Explosion is anticipated. It can also support setup sweepers like Belly Drum Snorlax or and Swords Dance Marowak by putting them out of range of physical attacks, most notably Explosion, in specific situations. However, Reflect leaves Starmie more vulnerable to Gengar, does nothing against Electric-types, which are also common answers, and fails to reliably protect itself from Snorlax, as it still risks paralysis from Body Slam or Thunder, sleep from Lovely Kiss, and a an OHKO from a critical hit from Double-Edge. Ice Beam lets Starmie super effectively hit Zapdos and Exeggutor super effectively, but it results in poor coverage if Starmie is using Rapid Spin, so it is usually only run on Growth Pass recipient sets.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Snorlax**: Snorlax's absurd HP and Special Defense allow it to sponge Starmie's special attacks quite well. Snorlax can take advantage of this by using Starmie to set up Curse or Belly Drum and threaten to deal significant damage with STAB moves like Body Slam, Return, and Double-Edge; Body Slam also has a 30% chance to paralyze Starmie, which would will significantly hinder its capabilities if it doesn't have Heal Bell support.

**Electric-types**: Electric-types such as Raikou and Zapdos can tank any of Starmie's moves and can take it down with their super effective STAB moves, and if they are running RestTalk, the threat of paralysis from Starmie is also less of a concern.

**Grass-types**: Grass-types like Exeggutor and Meganium resist both or one or both of Starmie's STAB attacks and force it out with their own STAB moves. Exeggutor can also either paralyze Starmie or put it to sleep, which massively hinders or even flat out removes Starmie's ability to remove Spikes or check powerful Pokemon. However, neither of them runs run Rest, so they should try to avoid switching into Starmie's Thunder Wave.

**Ghost-types**: Ghost-types like Gengar and Misdreavus are able to spinblock Starmie. While the standard Psychic Starmie 2HKOes Gengar and 3HKOes Misdreavus, they can switch in on a predicted Rapid Spin before either switching out or attempting to take it on. Specifically, Gengar can (OH?)KO Starmie with Explosion, Misdreavus can annoy it with Pain Split and possibly Perish trap it, and both can put Starmie to sleep with Hypnosis and 2HKO it with Thunder. The potential paralysis from Thunder can also turn the tables on Starmie, as it helps Gengar defeat Psychic variants more easily. However, Gengar needs to come in completely healthy to check Starmie, as it is weak to Psychic and greatly dislikes being paralyzed.

**Blissey**: Blissey boasts even higher special bulk than Snorlax, has recovery in Soft-Boiled to scoff at any of Starmie's attempts to damage it, and threatens Starmie with Toxic, Present, or even Thunder or Thunderbolt. Blissey also has access to Heal Bell, which can undo all of Starmie's paralysis spreading efforts.

**Umbreon**: Umbreon's incredible special bulk and immunity to Psychic mean that it completely walls Starmie, and Rest will get rid of any status Starmie inflicts it with. In return, Umbreon can inflict cripple Starmie with Toxic and Pursuit trap it if it has both moves, or Pursuit trap Starmie if it has already been inflicted hit with Toxic.

**Vaporeon**: Vaporeon resists Surf, takes very little damage from Psychic, and is able to cure any status inflicted on it with Rest, which lets Vaporeon use Starmie as setup fodder, which is extremely dangerous. (Do you really need this?) However, Vaporeon needs to be cautious about Special Defense drops from Psychic, and it has difficulties setting up against Starmie if it has Light Screen or Thunder.

**Heracross**: If Starmie isn't running Psychic, Heracross threatens to OHKO Starmie with STAB Megahorn and remove status with Rest. However, Heracross can only truly check Starmie if it doesn't have Psychic, as it is 2HKOed by the move which 2HKOes it (subjective change; passive voice).

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Oldamar999, 453750]]
- Quality checked by: [[Earthworm,15210], [Fear, 2005]]
- Grammar checked by: [[The Dutch Plumberjack, 232216], [, ]]

GP 2/2

 

[Oldamar999]

add remove comment

Here ya go

[OVERVIEW]

With an amazing base 115 Speed, a good Water / Psychic typing, reliable recovery, and a great support movepool consisting of moves like Thunder Wave and the coveted Rapid Spin, Starmie is very much a solid Pokemon. Starmie's access to Rapid Spin is massively helpful for many teams, as it can prevent Starmie's team from being worn down over(space)time, and Starmie is easily the most consistent Rapid Spin user in the tier due to its ability to threaten all Spikes setters Spikers and spinblockers. Additionally, Starmie's typing gives it useful resistances to Fighting-, Ice-, and Psychic-type moves. That, (AC) combined with its great Speed tier and access to Recover, (AC) allows it to counter critical offensive threats like Machamp and Charizard as well as letting it check many important Pokemon such as Steelix, Tyranitar, Rhydon, Marowak, and Nidoking. However, Starmie struggles to do any significant damage to the very common Raikou and Zapdos as well as the ubiquitous Snorlax, all of which pose a massive threat to it. Therefore, Starmie does not usually run offensive sets and tends to run a more defensive set with Rapid Spin and Thunder Wave utility. Unfortunately, this can prove to be problematic due to Starmie's below average bulk and constant need to use Recover or Rapid Spin, which can give free turns to extremely dangerous Pokemon such as Snorlax, Zapdos, and Exeggutor.

[SET]
name: Rapid Spin
move 1: Surf
move 2: Psychic / Thunder Wave
move 3: Rapid Spin
move 4: Recover
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Surf is Starmie's preferred Water-type STAB attack, as it hits hitting (What is it preferred over? And by the sounds of it, all Water-type moves can hit these foes anyway) Pokemon like Steelix, Tyranitar, Rhydon, and Charizard super effectively. Psychic is another form of STAB that allows Starmie to take down Pokemon like Machamp and Tentacruel and makes it more risky for Gengar trying to try to block Starmie's Rapid Spin. Thunder Wave can be run over Psychic to support Starmie’'(no curly apostrophes)s team, particularly slow but powerful attackers like Belly Drum Snorlax, Marowak, and Machamp, by slowing down faster Pokemon like Raikou and Zapdos and forcing them to use Rest more easily often (phrasing), making them much easier to handle. However, dropping Psychic reduces Starmie's ability to counter Machamp and hurt Cloyster. Rapid Spin removes Spikes from Starmie's side of the field, preventing it and its team from being gradually worn down as the match goes on. Recover allows Starmie to stay healthy throughout the match and consistently check what it needs to, preventing it from being worn down as easily by Spikes and Toxic, as well as making and make it much harder to Pursuit trap.

There are three main strategies that the Spikers can use to keep Spikes up against Starmie. Toxic can be used to force Starmie to eventually use Recover, which gives the Spikers a window of opportunity to either explode use Explosion on Starmie or switch to an Electric-type. Ghost-types can switch into a predicted Rapid Spin from Starmie and either attempt to beat it with Hypnosis, Thunder, Thunderbolt, Mean Look + Perish Song, or Explosion or immediately switch out again to Zapdos or Raikou. This forces Starmie out and preserves both Spikes and the Ghost-type's HP even if Starmie chooses a STAB attack. Lastly, Forretress can use Hidden Power Bug as Starmie attempts to spin, which just barely does enough damage so that Starmie is unable to Recover it off safely in the long run.

Team Options
========

Slow but powerful attackers like Marowak, Belly Drum Snorlax, and Machamp greatly appreciate Starmie's Rapid Spin support, as it increases their longevity; all of these Pokemon also like Starmie's ability to support them with Thunder Wave to slow down faster threats. Since Starmie is heavily threatened by Snorlax, Skarmory makes for a great partner due to its ability to reliably check most non-mixed Snorlax sets. barring mixed sets, and it doubles as a reliable answer to Heracross. Skarmory appreciates Starmie's ability to remove Spikes against Cloyster, which tends to take advantage of Skarmory to set up Spikes. Starmie also detests Electric-types, so good answers to them like Raikou and Blissey are very helpful. Both of these Pokemon greatly appreciate Rapid Spin support, and Starmie appreciates Blissey's ability to cure it of status with Heal Bell. Starmie is very vulnerable to status, so Miltank can also provide cleric support from the likes of Miltank and Blissey is quite helpful; (The ordering wasn't right, and the phrasing here can be cut down a bit, as you've already mentioned a cleric) Starmie also especially appreciates Miltank's ability to both cure it of status and check Curse and mixed variants of Snorlax decently. Spinblockers like Gengar and Misdreavus can be very annoying for Starmie, as they prevent it from removing Spikes, so Pursuit trappers like Tyranitar and Umbreon are greatly appreciated; Tyranitar and Umbreon also double as decent checks to Snorlax.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Thunder can be used to hit Cloyster, Vaporeon, and Suicune super effectively, but using it over Psychic makes taking down Machamp and Gengar, two crucial Pokemon, much more challenging. Light Screen allows Starmie to become a near-perfect counter to Vaporeon and helps its teammates by doubling their Special Defense. Substitute can make it even harder for Cloyster to keep Spikes up by blocking Toxic or Explosion attempts while also wasting Thunder PP from the likes of Zapdos and Raikou, (AC) and blocking Giga Drain from Exeggutor, as well as and (These were all subjective changes here; you can keep the original phrasing if you'd like) easing prediction against spinblockers. However, both Light Screen and Substitute remove crucial coverage, so they are less than ideal. Hydro Pump is more powerful than Surf and allows Starmie to land many KOs more easily, notably granting it a guaranteed 2HKO on Tyranitar, a good chance to (OH?)KO Marowak, and a guaranteed OHKO on Steelix. However, Hydro Pump's unreliable accuracy and lower PP mean that Surf is often the better option. Toxic can force typical counters like Snorlax and Zapdos to eventually use Rest, but if it's used over Psychic, Gengar becomes a much greater threat, and Starmie is left becomes setup fodder for Tentacruel. Reflect can be used to help soften blows from Snorlax, which Starmie allows in almost for free, and can also be used on turns where Explosion is anticipated. It can also support setup sweepers like Belly Drum Snorlax or and Swords Dance Marowak by putting them out of range of physical attacks, most notably Explosion, in specific situations. However, Reflect leaves Starmie more vulnerable to Gengar, does nothing against Electric-types, which are also common answers, and fails to reliably protect itself from Snorlax, as it still risks paralysis from Body Slam or Thunder, sleep from Lovely Kiss, and a an OHKO from a critical hit from Double-Edge. Ice Beam lets Starmie super effectively hit Zapdos and Exeggutor super effectively, but it results in poor coverage if Starmie is using Rapid Spin, so it is usually only run on Growth Pass recipient sets.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Snorlax**: Snorlax's absurd HP and Special Defense allow it to sponge Starmie's special attacks quite well. Snorlax can take advantage of this by using Starmie to set up Curse or Belly Drum and threaten to deal significant damage with STAB moves like Body Slam, Return, and Double-Edge; Body Slam also has a 30% chance to paralyze Starmie, which would will significantly hinder its capabilities if it doesn't have Heal Bell support.

**Electric-types**: Electric-types such as Raikou and Zapdos can tank any of Starmie's moves and can take it down with their super effective STAB moves, and if they are running RestTalk, the threat of paralysis from Starmie is also less of a concern.

**Grass-types**: Grass-types like Exeggutor and Meganium resist both or one or both of Starmie's STAB attacks and force it out with their own STAB moves. Exeggutor can also either paralyze Starmie or put it to sleep, which massively hinders or even flat out removes Starmie's ability to remove Spikes or check powerful Pokemon. However, neither of them runs run Rest, so they should try to avoid switching into Starmie's Thunder Wave.

**Ghost-types**: Ghost-types like Gengar and Misdreavus are able to spinblock Starmie. While the standard Psychic Starmie 2HKOes Gengar and 3HKOes Misdreavus, they can switch in on a predicted Rapid Spin before either switching out or attempting to take it on. Specifically, Gengar can (OH?)KO Starmie with Explosion, Misdreavus can annoy it with Pain Split and possibly Perish trap it, and both can put Starmie to sleep with Hypnosis and 2HKO it with Thunder. The potential paralysis from Thunder can also turn the tables on Starmie, as it helps Gengar defeat Psychic variants more easily. However, Gengar needs to come in completely healthy to check Starmie, as it is weak to Psychic and greatly dislikes being paralyzed.

**Blissey**: Blissey boasts even higher special bulk than Snorlax, has recovery in Soft-Boiled to scoff at any of Starmie's attempts to damage it, and threatens Starmie with Toxic, Present, or even Thunder or Thunderbolt. Blissey also has access to Heal Bell, which can undo all of Starmie's paralysis spreading efforts.

**Umbreon**: Umbreon's incredible special bulk and immunity to Psychic mean that it completely walls Starmie, and Rest will get rid of any status Starmie inflicts it with. In return, Umbreon can inflict cripple Starmie with Toxic and Pursuit trap it if it has both moves, or Pursuit trap Starmie if it has already been inflicted hit with Toxic.

**Vaporeon**: Vaporeon resists Surf, takes very little damage from Psychic, and is able to cure any status inflicted on it with Rest, which lets Vaporeon use Starmie as setup fodder, which is extremely dangerous. (Do you really need this?) However, Vaporeon needs to be cautious about Special Defense drops from Psychic, and it has difficulties setting up against Starmie if it has Light Screen or Thunder.

**Heracross**: If Starmie isn't running Psychic, Heracross threatens to OHKO Starmie with STAB Megahorn and remove status with Rest. However, Heracross can only truly check Starmie if it doesn't have Psychic, as it is 2HKOed by the move which 2HKOes it (subjective change; passive voice).

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Oldamar999, 453750]]
- Quality checked by: [[Earthworm,15210], [Fear, 2005]]
- Grammar checked by: [[The Dutch Plumberjack, 232216], [, ]]

GP 2/2

I implemented these. This is ready for Upload

 

[Earthworm]

Uploaded.