Stoutland (QC 3/3) (GP 2/2)

QC Approvals: yee, PK Gaming, Pocket

GP Approvals: sirndpt, Engineer Pikachu
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Woof

[Overview]

<p>Thanks to Sand Rush, Stoutland becomes an incredible revenge killer in a sandstorm, where its Speed is boosted to incredible levels. In addition, it is relatively bulky and has an acceptable Attack stat that can easily be boosted by an item. Finally, it has decent coverage, which allows it to revenge kill a large range of threats.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, like any other Pokemon, Stoutland has its fair share of problems. It absolutely needs Hippowdon or Tyranitar to summon sandstorm, as it isn't very useful outside of it; to make matters worse, other weather inducers are omnipresent in OU, making it hard to keep maintain the weather that player desires. Its Normal typing also doesn't do it many favors, as its STAB is resisted by several Pokemon in OU. Despite these flaws, however, Stoutland is an excellent choice if you need a revenge killer or late-game sweeper.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Return
move 2: Superpower
move 3: Pursuit / Crunch
move 4: Wild Charge
item: Choice Band
ability: Sand Rush
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is Stoutland's best set—the only one viable in OU. Thanks to Sand Rush, it has an effective Speed stat of 518, which is enough to outpace the entire unboosted metagame, including most Choice Scarf users. This allows Stoutland to become an effective revenge killer, as it can utilize a Choice Band to hit much harder than most other Choice Scarf revenge killers while still outpacing boosted opponents. Among the dangerous boosted foes it can check are Volcarona, Salamence, and Gyarados.</p>

<p>Return is Stoutland's preferred STAB move and allows it to heavily dent several foes or finish off a weakened team late-game. Superpower allows it to destroy most Rock- and Steel-types, such as Terrakion and Ferrothorn. Pursuit is the preferred option for the third slot, as it puts Ghost- and Psychic-types, such as Gengar and Latios, in a checkmate position if they try to switch out. However, Crunch can be used instead to break through bulkier Ghost-types that instead stay in, such as the uncommon but annoying Cofagrigus, and also secures a OHKO on Gengar if it attempts to stay in. Finally, Wild Charge is there to 2HKO Skarmory and Jellicent hard, as they don't take much damage from any of Stoutland's other moves; furthermore, it lands an OHKO on bulkier variants of Gyarados.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The given EVs maximize Stoutland's offensive prowess by maximizing Attack and Speed. An Adamant nature along with a Choice Band lets it hit as hard as possible, but a Jolly nature does help it outpace Choice Scarf base 108s such as Terrakion as well as +2 Cloyster. However, the power drop is generally not worth the ability to outspeed these Pokemon. Equipping a Life Orb instead allows Stoutland to switch moves, but loses out on power and also inflicts recoil damage, limiting both its longevity and revenge killing utility. In addition, Stoutland only needs one move to revenge kill a threat, and generally does not need to switch moves.</p>

<p>As a sandstorm is needed to activate Sand Rush, support from Tyranitar or Hippowdon is a must. In addition to setting up a permanent sandstorm, both can also set up Stealth Rock, which enables Stoutland to secure OHKOs on Pokemon such as Salamence. Both options have their pros and cons: Tyranitar can both trap Ghost-types with Pursuit and defeat most outright with Crunch, which lets Stoutland spam Return with less of a worry; however, it compounds your team's Fighting weakness. On the other hand, Hippowdon can take physical hits aimed at Stoutland without breaking a sweat, and it also has Earthquake to hit Steel-types hard. However, it generally doesn't have as much firepower as Tyranitar does, and hence doesn't fit as well with offensive Stoutland. It is possible to use both on the same team for even more security that a sandstorm will be up.</p>

<p>The omnipresent Steel-types can also give Stoutland problems, as quite a few of them are not weak to Superpower and all of them resist Return. Magnezone is therefore a good partner, as it can trap and KO Steel-types such as Skarmory and Forretress. There are several other options to lure in and take out Steel-types. Latios and Latias can cripple almost all Steel-types with Trick or Hidden Power Fire, and Reuniclus can as well, utilizing Trick to give them a Flame Orb and hitting hard with Focus Blast. These three can also help eliminate Mach Punch users, who can deal quite a bit of damage to Stoutland before it gets to retaliate.</p>

<p>Although Ninetales, Politoed, and Abomasnow cannot directly deal with Stoutland under most circumstances, they can be problematic for Stoutland by changing the weather. If one really needs to win the weather war, Dugtrio makes a good partner due to Arena Trap. It can also trap and kill several Steel-types that Magnezone struggles with, such as Jirachi. Politoed is generally the only weather starter that significantly threatens sandstorm teams; Virizion and Celebi can aid in dealing with rain teams in general, which also helps a sandstorm team. Both Pokemon also have a way of getting past Steel-types, namely Fighting STAB and Earth Power, respectively. In that regard, if your team can maintain sandstorm, Landorus is a good partner, as it resists Fighting-type moves, has Sand Force to power up its attacks in a sandstorm, and can hurt Steel-types with its Ground STAB. One can also use Sand Force Hippowdon alongside Stoutland and Sand Stream Tyranitar to lure in and KO Gliscor with Ice Fang, taking out a threat that can give Stoutland problems.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Stoutland's movepool is not very large, but it has a few other options it can consider. Retaliate is more powerful than Return if a teammate fainted on the previous turn. While it is a great move for revenge killing as it is capable of OHKOing nearly everything, it is less useful for late-game sweeping, which is Stoutland's other main function. Ice Fang OHKOes Gliscor and all variants of Dragonite after Multiscale is broken, but it is a terrible move to be locked into due to its low Base Power. On a similar note, Scizor and Forretress are maimed by Fire Fang, but it is also very weak.</p>

<p>Work Up and Howl are options to raise Stoutland's Attack. However, Stoutland is generally better off attacking immediately instead of setting up, since both moves only raise Stoutland to +1, which is the same boost a Choice Band gets and it requires a turn to set up. Stoutland gets Intimidate and several support moves such as Thunder Wave, Yawn, and Roar, but it is usually heavily outclassed in this role. Although Stoutland's third ability, Scrappy, might seem appealing as it enables Stoutland to hit Ghost-types, Stoutland is much less effective without the Speed boost from Sand Rush.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Thanks to Stoutland's doubled Speed while under sandstorm, it is hard to revenge kill. However, there are several Pokemon that Stoutland cannot hit hard enough to deal with. Jirachi is not hit very hard even by Superpower, and can easily cripple Stoutland with paralysis. Similarly, Forretress walls Stoutland's attacks and can use the opportunity to set up entry hazards or attack with Gyro Ball. Scizor can take a more offensive approach and 2HKO with Bullet Punch. Bronzong and Metagross aren't hit hard by Superpower either, which makes them good options as well. However, all these Pokemon, especially Scizor and Forretress, must be careful of a possible Fire Fang.</p>

<p>Although uncommon, defensive Cofagrigus is only 3HKOed by Crunch, and its Mummy ability removes Stoutland's Sand Rush. Sableye can outspeed and burn Stoutland with Prankster Will-O-Wisp, and doesn't take much damage from any of Stoutland's moves. Hitmontop can switch into Stoutland thanks to Intimidate and hit it with Close Combat or Mach Punch. While Conkeldurr is 2HKOed by Return, it can KO Stoutland easily with Drain Punch while healing off most of the damage it took, or 2HKO with Mach Punch. Breloom can deal a minimum of 80% with a Technician-boosted Mach Punch; however, note that Mach Punch can never OHKO a healthy Stoutland, while Return will OHKO Breloom.</p>

<p>As Stoutland holds a Choice Band most of the time, prediction aids in taking it down. For example, Jellicent can switch into Superpower or Return and attempt to burn Stoutland, Terrakion can switch into Return or Crunch and outspeed Stoutland if it has a Choice Scarf, and Skarmory can switch into anything but Wild Charge and set up Spikes on it or wear it down with Brave Bird. Finally, although Abomasnow, Ninetales, and Politoed generally lose to Stoutland one-on-one, they can slow Stoutland down by changing the weather.</p>
 
Ice Fang should be the primary slash over Wild Charge. I mean yeah sure, you get an option for hitting Skarmory and Jellicent, but Ice Fang allows it to revenge kill +1 Dragonite, which I think is too good to pass up. As for Skarmory and Jellicent, it's called teammates.

Crunch should also be slashed before Pursuit. I haven't used Pursuit on Stoutland, so I don't know of it for sure, but I can say for sure that Crunch is the better choice. You should only be using Stoutland on a sand team, and if you really want a Pursuiter for a Sand team, you can just run it on Tyranitar or use Scizor.

Also, I think a Jolly nature should at least be slashed, since it can actually beat Terrakion now that it has Superpower. Using Jolly lets it beat Scarf Terrakion, while Adamant literally loses by one Speed point.
 
Ice Fang should be the primary slash over Wild Charge. I mean yeah sure, you get an option for hitting Skarmory and Jellicent, but Ice Fang allows it to revenge kill +1 Dragonite, which I think is too good to pass up. As for Skarmory and Jellicent, it's called teammates.

To be honest, after Stealth Rock, Stoutland already OHKOs most +1 Dragonites, and even moreso, Dragonite is OHKOed by it 87.5% of the time by Return and Ice Fang hits 95% of the time if it is an Offensive variant. Also, Ice Fang is super weak so is not very good to be locked into. Also, Skarmory is "yes" for teammates, but Jellicent is really annoying to take down even with teammates (burning Pursuiters happens a LOT).

Crunch should also be slashed before Pursuit. I haven't used Pursuit on Stoutland, so I don't know of it for sure, but I can say for sure that Crunch is the better choice. You should only be using Stoutland on a sand team, and if you really want a Pursuiter for a Sand team, you can just run it on Tyranitar or use Scizor.

I can accept this. I guess there really aren't that many spinblockers in OU regardless, although getting rid of Gengar can be pretty important for Stoutland and it doesn't do well against Jellicient anyway. Tyranitar is pretty much with every Stoutland for Pursuiting as well.

Also, I think a Jolly nature should at least be slashed, since it can actually beat Terrakion now that it has Superpower. Using Jolly lets it beat Scarf Terrakion, while Adamant literally loses by one Speed point.

I mentioned it in additional comments and I also gave note of the fact that Scarf Terrakion outspeeds it (twice). However, Stoutland is quite a bit weaker if it is Jolly, as Offensive Dragonite after Stealth Rock is OHKOed a lot less (38% instead of 88%), Gliscor with Ice Fang isn't OHKOed (if you run that move), Breloom isn't always OHKOed, a chance of 2HKOing Skarmory with Wild Charge is lost, etc. Granted that its just 1 variant of a Pokemon that can threaten it (Scarf Latios too), I think it should stay in additional comments.
 
In my honest opinion, Crunch is a perfectly fine option for coverage against Jellicent (I still don't think it'll do enough though). The only real targets of Wild Charge in that case are Skarmory and Gyarados. Skarmory I don't think takes enough, and Gyarados.... People use that in OU? How is it OU? It sucks. Plus, you should already have some kind of answer to Gyarados and I think Return will suffice in most cases. I just think Ice Fang is so much more useful for Gliscor, Dragonite, and Salamence. Without it, you get walled hard by Gliscor which is a pretty big deal. Plus, Wild Charge has recoil you have to deal with.
 
I actually agree with Ice Fang because it let's you hit through Gliscor and Landorus I / T as well as revenge the latter. I also agree with the whole teammates argument for Skarm and Jelli. Wild Charge would mainly be for revenging Gyara (not even close to common) and is set up bait for Thundurus-T.

edit: kinda ninja'd?
 
Wild Charge is a very good move for Stoutland guys. First of all it always 2hkoes Skarmory after SR, which is awesome, as it is one of the best switch-ins to him, so he can act as a successful lure to soften Skarmory for another physical sweeper.

Also you are way underestimating Gyardos. Gyarados is very threatening to a lot of sand teams, as once you eliminate their non-scarf Rotom-W/Ferrothorn/Skarmory (2 of them are trapped by Zone btw) he is very hard to play against (talking about SubDD Gyara). And having the advantage to revenge kill him even at +2 is always a nice fall-back to have.

Oh and let's not forget about Keldeo. Wild Charge does 91.02 - 107.73% to him, meaning that you have a 43.75% to ohko w/o SR and a 81.25% chance to ohko with SR, while Return does 77.39 - 91.33, which is enough for the LO set, which will have taken residual damage, but not for the Specs and SubCM set.

Finally one thing that has gone unnoticed, is that Stoutland can revenge kill a +2 Cloyster with Wild Charge but not with Return. Wild Charge does 66.39 - 78.83% to Cloyster, which means that after SR and 1 round of sandstorm damage you have a pretty big chance to ohko him (bring Stoutland in as Cloyster uses SS, if you have the balls of 'course), while Return only does 56.43 - 67.21%, which usually doesn't ohko even after SR + 2 turns of sandstorm.
 
Everyone knows that Ice Fang is very useful too, but sometimes you gotta give some reasoning except saying vague stuff such as, ''it is 100x more useful'' and ''People use that in OU? How is it OU? It sucks''.

Also as mentioned earlier, offensive Dragonite is ohkoed 87.5% of the time after SR by Return, and Salamence 100% of the time, so the real target is Gliscor. So we have Gliscor and Landorus-T vs Skarmory and Gyarados and Cloyster. It seems that overall Wild Charge has more utility, even though getting locked into a move that Thundurus-T (especially the Agility set) can set-up is never good.
 
Everyone knows that Ice Fang is very useful too, but sometimes you gotta give some reasoning except saying vague stuff such as, ''it is 100x more useful'' and ''People use that in OU? How is it OU? It sucks''.

Also as mentioned earlier, offensive Dragonite is ohkoed 87.5% of the time after SR by Return, and Salamence 100% of the time, so the real target is Gliscor. So we have Gliscor vs Skarmory and Gyarados and Cloyster. It seems that overall Wild Charge has more utility, even though getting locked into a move that Thundurus-T (especially the Agility set) can set-up is never good.

It's more than just Gliscor. Landorus-I/T also won't enjoy Ice Fang at all, and when it comes to threats like Gliscor, Thundurus-T, and Landorus, Wild Charge is just going to leave you as setup bait, and letting Thundurus-T get up an Agility is never good. If you wanna win, use Ice Fang. If you wanna lose, use Wild Charge. Simple.

Also, I dunno if it's just me or not but neither Gyarados nor Cloyster are even that common. The targets of Ice Fang are more common than the targets of Wild Charge.
 
Alex, you seem to forget about Landorus, a very dominant new threat. Yes, Wild Charge is great but the Pokemon it hits are just uncommon (sans Keldeo). Definitely suggest it strongly, but because Ice Fang hits Landorus I and T as well as Gliscor and Nite, it deserves te primary slash. I don't exactly disagree with Wild Charge's utility, but rather it's slash spot. Oh, and Wild Charge gives some really unwanted recoil considering how vulnerable Stoutland is to hazards.

edit: dammit Luc -___-
 
No, Ice Fang is just 100x more useful.
I didn't know being Skarm set up bait was useful. But that's just a con you're gonna have to live with, I guess.

You should probably mention Scizor as a partner, as it can trap Latios with Pursuit and check Terrakion with Bullet Punch. Other then that, it looks fine.
 
I didn't know being Skarm set up bait was useful.

23256581.jpg


Seriously, dealing with Skarm with teammates is actually really easy. In fact, easier than Gliscor I think. So, Ice Fang > Wild Charge.

I never said Wild Charge shouldn't be slashed, but with shit like Gliscor, Landorus, and Thundurus-T running around, it's not as useful as Ice Fang. Also, recoil.

EDIT: Also, tell me this: Would you rather have an 87.5% chance to OHKO Dragonite after SR, or a 100% chance after Multiscale is broken in any way assuming Ice Fang hits?
 
It's more than just Gliscor. Landorus-I/T also won't enjoy Ice Fang at all, and when it comes to threats like Gliscor, Thundurus-T, and Landorus, Wild Charge is just going to leave you as setup bait, and letting Thundurus-T get up an Agility is never good. If you wanna win, use Ice Fang. If you wanna lose, use Wild Charge. Simple.

Also, I dunno if it's just me or not but neither Gyarados nor Cloyster are even that common. The targets of Ice Fang are more common than the targets of Wild Charge.
You say that Wild Charge is going to leave you as set-up bait for Thundurus-T? Ok then i can say that Ice Fang will leave you as set-up bait for SD Scizor, SD Lucario, SD Terra etc. Both of those moves are terrible to be locked into, don't try to make Ice Fang look better, when it is in fact worse (65 BP vs 90 BP, and Electric gets better neutral coverage than Ice).

Normal Landorus is no such a big problem as Stoutland always ohkoes after 2 SR rounds, which is not hard to get on a poke that spams U-turn. So we are left with Gliscor and Landorus-T that Ice Fang deals, while we are left with Gyarados, Skarmory and Cloyster that Wild Charge deals. The targets of Ice Fang are more common? Let's see... 15.79% (Gliscor) + ? (Landorus-T) = ?. 11.38% (Skarmory) + 7.54% (Gyarados) + 5.49% = 24.41%. So if Landorus-T receives 0.1-9% usage, then Wild Charge hits more popular targets, but if it hits more than 9% usage, Ice Fang hits more. But either way they are almost equally viable, as the percentages show (even 2-3% difference in usage doesn't mean more).

Finally the fact that Gyarados and Cloyster are far more dangerous for most teams than Gliscor and Landorus-T leads me to believe that WC deserves the first slash. What is more difficult to revenge kill, a +1/+1 Gyarados or a +2 Gliscor? A +2/+2/+2 Cloyster or a +2 Atk or +2 Speed Landorus-T? Almost always the answer will be Gyarados and Cloyster.

@JellyOs

WC hits uncommon pokes? Such as Skarmory and Gyarados, which are #13 and #23 in usage respectively? And as said again, offensive DDnite is ohkoed after SR 87.5% of the time with Return so he is taken care of, as is normal Lando. So the only pokes left are Landorus-T and Gliscor. I don't know about you, but for me Gyarados and Cloyster seem much more dangerous and harder to deal with if they set-up than the 2 ground/flying pokes.

EDIT: @Lucaroark

Actually with Return you are guaranteed to ohko Dnite, while with Ice Fang not. Even if you get the 12.5% that Dnite survives the Return, after he ohkoes you, he will die from sandstorm. But with Ice Fang, in the 5% chance that it misses, you die and Dnite loses nothing. So Return always ohkos, while giving you a 87.5% chance to get out alive, while Ice Fang ohkoes 95% of the time, while giving you a 95% chance to get out alive.

@Ningildo

Yeah of 'course it is just a slash, we just like to debate :D
 
You know, I think this is getting kinda out of hand. It's just a move slash. I just mentioned skarm set up bait...because it is, but I posted that before all those pros and cons where listed (and I read them). It's just up to what your team can handle, lol.
 
You say that Wild Charge is going to leave you as set-up bait for Thundurus-T? Ok then i can say that Ice Fang will leave you as set-up bait for SD Scizor, SD Lucario, SD Terra etc. Both of those moves are terrible to be locked into, don't try to make Ice Fang look better, when it is in fact worse (65 BP vs 90 BP, and Electric gets better neutral coverage than Ice).

Normal Landorus is no such a big problem as Stoutland always ohkoes after 2 SR rounds, which is not hard to get on a poke that spams U-turn. So we are left with Gliscor and Landorus-T that Ice Fang deals, while we are left with Gyarados, Skarmory and Cloyster that Wild Charge deals. The targets of Ice Fang are more common? Let's see... 15.79% (Gliscor) + ? (Landorus-T) = ?. 11.38% (Skarmory) + 7.54% (Gyarados) + 5.49% = 24.41%. So if Landorus-T receives 0.1-9% usage, then Wild Charge hits more popular targets, but if it hits more than 9% usage, Ice Fang hits more. But either way they are almost equally viable, as the percentages show (even 2-3% difference in usage doesn't mean more).

Finally the fact that Gyarados and Cloyster are far more dangerous for most teams than Gliscor and Landorus-T leads me to believe that WC deserves the first slash. What is more difficult to revenge kill, a +1/+1 Gyarados or a +2 Gliscor? A +2/+2/+2 Cloyster or a +2 Atk or +2 Speed Landorus-T? Almost always the answer will be Gyarados and Cloyster.

How about a +2 Speed Thundurus-T? Sweeping through your team with just Thunderbolt and Focus Blast, and you can't do anything about it because you used Wild Charge. Also, if Gyarados lacks Bounce, any and I mean any Grass-type = gg (especially Celebi). Even then, Bounce is a terrible move. As I said, getting walled by Gliscor is a really big deal. With Wild Charge, you still only 2HKO Skarmory, but with Ice Fang, you outright OHKO Gliscor. What sounds better?

Gyarados is actually easy to revenge kill anyway, have you ever heard of Choice Scarf Landorus? And Scarf Terrakion? Dragonite with Multiscale intact? Also, Adamant Stoutland isn't outspeeding +2 Naive/Jolly Cloyster. That point is moot. Do I need to pull out the teammates picture again? Besides, if you do decide to run Jolly, Superpower does a fuck ton more to Cloyster than Wild Charge. Why are you even arguing this?

And honestly Alexwolf, a 5% chance to miss is really minuscule. You almost can't factor it in. You're more likely to get burned by Flamethrower. You're more likely to get a fucking critical hit on something. People only really whine about moves like Stone Edge and Focus Blast missing, because you're actually pretty likely to miss those. But for Ice Fang, you'll only miss 1 in 20 times. Also, for the last time, Wild Charge has recoil. It is very easy to wear something down due to recoil.

Also, does it help to know that a multitude of OU threats are 4x weak to Ice, while really the only OU Pokemon that's 4x weak to Electric is Gyarados?
 
Okay, sorry to completely flip flop like this but I just kinda figured something out. Stoutland will ALWAYS be used in sand, so you have to fear other weather. With Ice Fang, both Poli and Ninetales can freely switch in and fuck over Stoutland. WC is also SE against Toed, meaning he absolutely can't switch in. Not to mention most rain teams have at least 3 water pokes. Yea, I changed my mind lol. I agree with the WC first slash.
 
Politoed gets hit hard enough by Return and Ninetales is completely fucked by Tyranitar. Also, Stoutland should be used as a revenge killer, not a sweeper, in which case Ice Fang is more useful. Trust me, Stoutland user here. Do I need to reference the teammates picture again?

Either way, I am not budging on my opinion that Ice Fang should be the first slash. It is just so much more useful. So many OU threats are weak to Ice, while many OU threats resist or are outright immune to Electric.
 
Yes but either can come in on your weather allowing something like Tornadus to sweep. I also realized the Thun-T argument is BS because they all run thunder, so they can't set up in rain
 
Neither Politoed nor Ninetales have any business switching in on CBTar. CBTar can't switch in on them, but Politoed/Ninetales can't switch in on it either. Neither one resists either of its STABs, and in fact Ninetales is actually weak to one of its STABs. Plus, as I said, Ice > Electric in OU.
 
@Lucaroark

Don't tell me the same stuff again and again. Agility Thundurus-T was already mentioned, and then i asked you, what about SD Scizor, SD Lucario, SD Terrakion, etc, all of which can set-up on Ice Fang?

About your bashing of Gyarados (btw the Bounce set is the most popular), no matter what you say Gyarados is a very potent poke in OU, as proved by its usage and the players that have used it. Whether you want to recognize it or not is a matter that doesn't need to be discussed here.

Also yeah ohkoing Gliscor is better than 2hkoing Skarmory, but removing 50% of Skarmory's life is what most physical sweepers want in order to get past him anyway. (btw just checked and you don't ohko Gliscor with Ice Fang)

Yeah my bad about Cloyster sry... Forgot that he doesn't outspeed and forgot about Superpower :D

You mention scarfers to take down Gyarados, such as Landorus and Terrakion, but do you know that Gyarados can either ohko them on the switch, or behind a sub? So you either have to sacrifice a defensive poke, if your Skarmory/Rotom-W/Ferrothorn are dead, or your Scarfer, in order to have a chance of beating Gyara.

Finally i love how you say that a 5% chance is miniscule, but 12.5% isn't.

Anyway everybody should know the merits of the 2 moves by now. Enough said really, let's stop this before we get a warning...
 
Wild Charge should be the main and I think only mention as coverage move. Ice Fang only hits Gliscor hard (doesnt even OHKO though, at least its an OHKO), as Return wont be strong enough to beat it after Poison Heal + a Protect. Landorus can be OHKOd by return even, after SR, while Landorus-T is 2HKOd. Dragonite and Salamence suffer the same fate as normal Landorus except they die all the time after SR, while things that only have a 2x weakness to Ice are hit harder by Return anyways (in most cases).

Fire Fang is only really for Scizor and Forretress, as Superpower deals almost the same amount of damage to most steels. The attack drop may be off-putting, but youre still 2HKOing 0/0 Jirachis, while max HP ones arent 2HKOd by Fire Fang anyways.

On Pursuit vs Crunch, Pursuit deserves a slash but Crunch should stay main option, as the damage difference is too big and Pursuit is merely situational, but has its uses.

Wild Charge doing so much damage to Water types such as Keldeo is too useful.

So IMO: Wild Charge only move in the last spot, Fire and Ice Fangs to Other Options, keep Pursuit slash alongside Crunch.
 
Politoed gets hit hard enough by Return and Ninetales is completely fucked by Tyranitar. Also, Stoutland should be used as a revenge killer, not a sweeper, in which case Ice Fang is more useful. Do I need to reference the teammates picture again?
Besides the whole "Ice resists sets up for free" thing, have fun winning the war with your weather starter being burned. Honestly, when the weather is changed, you're looking at a pokemon with base 259 speed. Ninetales only needs 96 Speed EV's to outpace and burn it or the switch in (read, your weather starter trying to fuck up Ninetales).

But seriously, it's just a fucking SLASH. In the end, the very same things you mentioned, teammates, will decide what the move chosen will be, regardless of slash. So...could we put this to a rest? I don't even care about what comes first, just wanted to show that Ninetales isn't entirely fucked by Tyranitar (among others) with this post.
 
Wild Charge should be the main and I think only mention as coverage move. Ice Fang only hits Gliscor hard (doesnt even OHKO though, at least its an OHKO), as Return wont be strong enough to beat it after Poison Heal + a Protect. Landorus can be OHKOd by return even, after SR, while Landorus-T is 2HKOd. Dragonite and Salamence suffer the same fate as normal Landorus except they die all the time after SR, while things that only have a 2x weakness to Ice are hit harder by Return anyways (in most cases).

Fire Fang is only really for Scizor and Forretress, as Superpower deals almost the same amount of damage to most steels. The attack drop may be off-putting, but youre still 2HKOing 0/0 Jirachis, while max HP ones arent 2HKOd by Fire Fang anyways.

On Pursuit vs Crunch, Pursuit deserves a slash but Crunch should stay main option, as the damage difference is too big and Pursuit is merely situational, but has its uses.

Wild Charge doing so much damage to Water types such as Keldeo is too useful.

So IMO: Wild Charge only move in the last spot, Fire and Ice Fangs to Other Options, keep Pursuit slash alongside Crunch.

I think at least keep the Ice Fang slash just for Gliscor. Especially for Sand teams (only team you should be running Stoutland on), getting walled by Gliscor is a really big deal. Trust me, I experienced first-hand the serious issues with Gliscor when Ice Fang isn't used because it happened to me when using a sand team. Also, SR isn't always going to be on the field. Rapid Spin exists.
 
Main Set
~ I'd keep Wild Charge - it actually provides good neutral spammable coverage with Return. Yes, Ground-types and Volt Absorbers can switch in to Wild Charge, but not many of them except for the most defensive Ground-types would dare switch into Stoutland anyways. Ice Fang's low base power makes it more of a set-up bait than Wild Charge, imo - not the best move to be locked into.
~ Remember, Stoutland is mainly spamming STAB Returns. Dragonite, Landorus, offensive Landorus-T, and even Gliscor (41~49%) takes a shitton from CB Return - Selecting Ice Fang is only setting up Stoutland for a revenge-kill.
~ In fact, Fire Fang > Ice Fang, imo, since it actually lets Stoutland to devastate Forretress and Jirachi (no, Superpower does NOT 2HKO) who would otherwise be quite a bitch to take out (without Magnezone).
~ tl;dr - keep Wild Charge; drop Ice Fang for Fire Fang

~ Note that Pursuit is also useful for picking off Latios, Starmie, Celebi, etc - not just Ghost-types.

AC Mention
~ Mention the pro's and con's of Tyranitar and Hippowdon as a partner. Tyranitar can trap Ghosts but compounds Fighting-type weakness; Hippowdon actually serves as a decent check against Stoutland switch-ins, but does not have much firepower.
~ Note that depending on the Sandstreamer, Stoutland's Dark move choice may vary. For instance, Stoutland can opt for Crunch when paired with TTar, thanks to its Pursuit-trap; but with Hippowdown, Stoutland may be more useful having its own Pursuit to remove dangerous special threats to the sand team.
~ For Stoutland to be effective, it has to win the weather war - mention Pokemon that can deal with Rain and Sun teams. Latias / Latios are good ones.
~ Mention how hazards support comes in extremely handy in chipping away at physical tanks that can take hits from Stoutland.

~ Mention Pokemon that can help cripple or exploit common switch-ins to Stoutland.
~ Dragon types are good to bash Steels. Latias and Latios can play double-duty here by crippling Steels with HP Fire / Trick. Tornadus with Heat Wave can even roast Jirachi. Psychic-types like OTR Reuniclus with HP Fire can also come in handy.
~ Grass-types, such as Celebi, Virizion, and Shaymin can also draw in Steel-types and dent them really hard with Earth Power / HP Fire / Focus Blast. In addition, they provide some useful resistance to sand teams, namely resistance to Water, Ground, and Fighting (for Celebi). It's even a good switch-in to defensive Waters (lol) and Ground-types.
~ Fighting-types provide solid complementary offense with Normal-type, dealing hefty damage to both Rock- and Steel-types. Terrakion, Lucario, and Breloom are good examples. Pursuit becomes even more important to remove Ghost and Psychic-types.
~ Landorus (either formes) and Mamoswine are also great offensive partners, as they can easily remove most bulky Ground-types and grounded Steel- and Rock-types, as well as luring and damaging defensive Steels.

Other Option
~ Remove Iron Head...
~ Remove Thunder Fang...
~ Mention Ice Fang here.

Checks and Counters
~ Add Sableye into the list, since it can take at least one hit from Stoutland and burn it with Wisp, thanks to Prankster.
~ Mention for all Steels not named Skarmory to be wary of switching into a possible Fire Fang :0
 
O.k so we had another discussion of this, and this is what we came up with.

-De Slash Ice Fang, its meh, and most of the things you hit with it don't like taking a Return anyway. Gliscor might still "wall you" however switching into a Return after Stealth Rock takes off around 50%, which means that if you can cripple Gliscor to get it around that 50% zone it can no longer switch into Stoutland as easily.

Fire Fang goes to AC. Its uses are limited, and Superpower is usually a better option anyway. 252 HP Jirachi is one of the ones you might like Fire Fang for, but thats mostly it.

Pursuit is a good move to use in catching all those pokemon weak to Psychic Moves in a checkmate situation. For example Latios is sort of in a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario etc etc. Make sure to bring that up please.

As Pocket said, winning the weather war is going to be exceptionally useful in helping Stoutland sweep, or even revenge kill threats easier. Just off the top of my head (and going of his list, Latias, Latios, CM Keldeo (for Rain), Dragonite, Thundurus-T, Breloom, Virizion, Heatran etc etc are some good ones depending on the weather. You can bring up Dugtrio as an option to trap Ninetales (and a weakened Politoed) so you can win the weather war easier. Dugtrio also traps and kills Heatran, and will succeed at the very least at crippling Jirachi depending on what EV spread it runs.

Mention Double Sand as an option. Bring up pros and cons (such as doubling up on weaknesses) but it can be effective. Also mention that LO Tank Hippowdon does a good job and luring in Gliscor and nailing it with Ice Fang, and it also 2KOs Ferrothorn with Earthquake, significant as it allows Stoutland to sweep. Earthquake also lets it get past 252 HP Jirachi, and Stoutland can lure in and nail a Skarmory for Wild Charge that can be problematic for Hippowdon.

Again, Bring up pokemon that can handle Steel Types. Trick Flame Orb Reuniclus lures in Scizor and Jirachi, and gives them a Flame Orb weakening there attack power and survivability. Latios and Latias can put your opponent into a lose lose situation in forcing your opponent to bring in Steel types to take the Draco Meteors, which in turn weakens them for Stountland.

Hazard support (maybe from something like Deoxys D) will weaken the steels types. It limits the amout of times that they can cleanly switch in and tank a Return, repeated hits combined with spikes will bring them down quickly.

Bring up Lures as being excellent partners for Stoutland. Grass types with HP Fire are less successful since most players can except a fire move, they are still good options however for defensively taking on many of the attacking types that give Sand teams trouble. While not a lure at all, Heatran can scare away many steel types and nuke something else.

Since you need to weaken Gliscor (or Jirachi) use Physical attackers that can blast past Gliscor, or cripple it so that Stoutland can bulldoze past it by itself. CB Dragonite, Mix Mence, SD Virizion with HP Ice, SD Rock Gem Terrakion (or CB), Lucario with Ice Punch and Breloom are all good options. Gravity Landorus-T can force Gliscor in, and take boosted Earthquakes, as well as Spikes damage switching in. Mamoswine is not a lure but threatens Gliscor with its STAB Ice attacks, and is generally a good choice in the metagame, checking dragons, as well as the new forms: Landorus-T, Thundurus-T and Tornados-T.

And yea as Pocket said add the following

~ Add Sableye into the list, since it can take at least one hit from Stoutland and burn it with Wisp, thanks to Prankster.
~ Mention for all Steels not named Skarmory to be wary of switching into a possible Fire Fang :0
 
You people act like running another Pursuit user is so damn easy. Choice tar got nerfed due to tornadus t since it outspeeds scarf and its hard to fit pursuit on the mixed attacker set. Running CB Scizor gives you two band users which isn't all that great on an offensive team since you rely on prediction much more heavily. Pursuit gives Stoutland a way to remove frail Psychics and Ghosts like Zam and Gengar especially on its own so it can freely spam its normal stab. Wild Charge hits Jellicent anyways and Return fucks everything else up
 
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