sucker-taunting

[TheMantyke]

Admins, this is not a discussion on a new pokemon set, this is a move combo.

Sucker punch was an innovative move this generation, a priority move that only goes first IF and only IF your opponent trys to attack. This move can sometimes lead to an Azelf/Gengar/Alakazam dieing with ease, or result in your opponent sweeping you behind a sub with about 3 calm minds.

The move is kind of predictable on some pokemon and usially, a false move dooms your entire team. But there is a move that seems to go very well with sucker punch

That move is taunt.

Taunt, as most of you already know, forces the pokemon to use an attacking move. The combo of the two moves could work somewhat like reverse subpunching, and might force a switch or kill a pokemon.

I did a quick search on serebii for the pokemon that could learn sucker punch and taunt. The ones in bold get dark type STAB

Raticate
gengar
sudowoodo
Honchkrow
Mightyena
Mawhile
Banette
Absol
Purugly
Toxicroak
Spiritomb
Nidoking

Out of all of those Honchkrow, Absol, Nidoking, toxicroak, and Spiritomb seem to be the most effecient. (gengar and banette might work, but there STAB moves get the same coverage) I personally used this toxicroak as a starter on wifi and it worked wonders

Toxicroak@ lumberry or focus sash
Adamant (+Att, -Spatt)
Dryskin
252/Att 252/spd 6/Hp
-Taunt
-Sucker punch
-Crosschop
-Stone edge/Poison Jab

Let gives some examples as to how they work

Toxicroak was sent out!
Gengar was sent out!

Genga used Hypnosis!
Toxicroak fell asleep!
Toxicroaks lum berry activated!
Toxicoak used taunt!
Gengar fell for the taunt!

...Now if the person thinks he carrys sucker punch, he'll switch out, but since most people have no idea what he does, it usually ends up...

Toxicroak used sucker punch!
Gengar fainted!

The same set could wok officientlly with spiritomb (who could sleep or WoW an incoming Poke), honchkrow (who has heracrosses attack), Nidoking (who has megahorn and STAB earthquake) and absol (who could get lucky with sucker punch) with move changes and EV changes. This might be a good combo, does it sound useable?

Mods, if this thread is awful, I'm sorry for sucking, sorry also if the title is to cheesey.

EDIT: With some feed back, pursuit on spiritomb and honchy might be a good idea. Also A honchkrow set using this has been conceived

Honchkrow@ Life orb
lonely
252/att 252/spd 6/HP
-Sucker punch
-taunt
-nightslash/drillpeck
-HP fire or electric

It might work since most of the previous ones had problems with skarmory. with no EVs and a neutral nature, skarm is 2KOed.

 

[Source]

Yup this combo works, like in the analysis for Spiritomb. May work on the other pokes in the UU or BL environment.

 

[toy]

predict. =]

 

[Yoshipal13]

That seems interesting. If people see this coming, you could stick Pursuit or Focus Punch on the set as well. Or maybe a stat-upper or Sub. (If those pokes listed can even benefit from that).

 

[Ness]

As a Honchkrow user, he is too frail to use Taunt in my opinion.

On the other side, using Sucker Punch isn't as easy as it sounds. If you are playing someone who knows their Pokemon, the choice of whether or not to Sucker Punch is a tough one indeed. You can try to Sucker Punch, but many people will know that is coming and not attack instead. It pays off sometimes, and other times it doesn't.

Which is why I carry Substitute over Taunt on my Honchkrow. Because if I think someone will switch/use a non-attack move, I get a sub up, and can open up my movepool to a risk-free use Drill Peck or Night Slash if I must. Carrying a Scope Lens and the Super Luck ability helps out as well. And if I do get attacked, if I am faster I won't die. And if I am outsped and somehow survive the hit, whether or not I get a substitute off the opponent will think that they can finish my Honchkrow off which allows me to get a Sucker Punch in or switch out of there.

This isn't necessary for all Sucker Punchers, since they will have better defenses than Honchkrow and can take a hit. My Honchkrow dies to about anything that isn't resisted.

 

[X-Codes]

Nidoking should also be able to make solid use of this, being a decently durable physical hitter in it's tier. Whats more, he can also learn Counter, and with a base HP of 81 he can use that move quite well as well. Final attack would almost certainly be Earthquake for STAB.

 

[TheMantyke]

As a Honchkrow user, he is too frail to use Taunt in my opinion.

On the other side, using Sucker Punch isn't as easy as it sounds. If you are playing someone who knows their Pokemon, the choice of whether or not to Sucker Punch is a tough one indeed. You can try to Sucker Punch, but many people will know that is coming and not attack instead. It pays off sometimes, and other times it doesn't.

Which is why I carry Substitute over Taunt on my Honchkrow. Because if I think someone will switch/use a non-attack move, I get a sub up, and can open up my movepool to a risk-free use Drill Peck or Night Slash if I must. Carrying a Scope Lens and the Super Luck ability helps out as well. And if I do get attacked, if I am faster I won't die. And if I am outsped and somehow survive the hit, whether or not I get a substitute off the opponent will think that they can finish my Honchkrow off which allows me to get a Sucker Punch in or switch out of there.

This isn't necessary for all Sucker Punchers, since they will have better defenses than Honchkrow and can take a hit. My Honchkrow dies to about anything that isn't resisted.

yeah, the item is for your opponent eiher attacking you and not seeing sucker punch, o if they do see sucker puch and try to status you with will-o-wisp or hypnosis.
honch is very fragile so yeah, substitute could work for him since he usially just uses steel wing as a filler move.

To Xcodes: Whoops! forgot about nidoking. Edited.

 

[mHMM]

i think that this set would work best on either Absol or Spiritomb.
mainly becuase they both get STAB and don't have many other options.

 

[Hipmonlee]

The problem with this, is you would only use this if you had no other attacking options whatsoever..

The whole point of sucker punch is it allows you to attack without taking the hit first. But if you have to taunt first then what you have is an extremely bad move. It effectively attacks last and doesnt do any damage if your opponent switches.

For your toxicroak example, I'd rather Stone Edge on the first turn, then either switch, or hope for the miss on the second.. (or maybe if you had bullet punch or something you could use that). Situations where you would use this combo are going to be few and far between..

Have a nice day.

 

[TheMantyke]

screech/sucker punch/pursuit/taunt honchkrow actually works as a decent pokemon, sometimes. you can have a lot of fun with it if your opponent switches in something that doesn't resist dark entirely haha.

That's actually a really neat Idea, but it would need a lot of prediction and a focus sash to work. Steel types would ruin it, but all Physical honchkrows are always walled by steels

 

[TheMantyke]

i think that this set would work best on either Absol or Spiritomb.
mainly becuase they both get STAB and don't have many other options.

They both acctually have alot of options, this was kind of a possible set.

The problem with this, is you would only use this if you had no other attacking options whatsoever..

The whole point of sucker punch is it allows you to attack without taking the hit first. But if you have to taunt first then what you have is an extremely bad move. It effectively attacks last and doesnt do any damage if your opponent switches.

For your toxicroak example, I'd rather Stone Edge on the first turn, then either switch, or hope for the miss on the second.. (or maybe if you had bullet punch or something you could use that). Situations where you would use this combo are going to be few and far between..

Have a nice day.

yeah... I guess the combo is kinda gimmicky, but It's been working for me for a while. The example was just a minor example.

EDIT: Double post, sorry.

 

[mHMM]

absol has psycho cut and x-scissor. spiritomb has pursuit.
that just about sums up the physical movepools for the two i mentioned as far as physical attacks go. sucker punch looks pretty good to me when those are your only real choices.

 

[X-Codes]

The problem with this, is you would only use this if you had no other attacking options whatsoever..

The whole point of sucker punch is it allows you to attack without taking the hit first. But if you have to taunt first then what you have is an extremely bad move. It effectively attacks last and doesnt do any damage if your opponent switches.

Regardless of this, I still say Spiritomb can still make good use of it, since they Taunt anyway. If they used Taunt -> Pain Split -> Sucker Punch, they could very well KO a 'mon. Granted thats probably the best possible scenario, but more common than you might think.

Because of Tauntdos (and the thought of running out of options), almost all 'mons carry at least 1 attack move, which is usually STABed. If that move hits Spiritomb for ~80% and then Spiritomb Pain Splits, going back up to ~70%-80%, then the opponent might just let it go on for another turn, thinking that he'll either KO Spiritomb or get a free hit on a switch, when, in reality, Sucker Punch KO's the 'mon.

 

[Bologo]

Banette actually isn't that bad with Sucker Punch/Taunt like you mentioned. With Frisk, it'll be able to see what the opponent's item is, so that it'll know when its time to taunt, and when to just go right out and use Sucker Punch. It can also Trick off its item on to a Staller and then taunt them so they'll be much easier to stop.

Also, Banette is a great pokemon for playing mind games with this type of set. It can run both Taunt and Snatch. Snatch if you know something will set-up, for example, snatch a swords dance off of Garchomp if for some reason you're playing in standard, and then taunt it so it can't set-up any longer. Now hit it with sucker punch...etc etc. Now let's see what advantages it has with Frisk over the other Sucker Punch-Taunters...

Eg 1. If Banette sees the opponent has a Choice item, then of course it will go right out and Sucker Punch. If it knows it cannot kill it, then it can either Trick or Knock Off. Remember though, only 4 moveslots.

Eg 2. If Banette sees the opponent has Leftovers, it's probably better off taunting and then sucker punching. Or, if you decide that Snatch is a good move, Snatch, then taunt, then sucker punch.

Eg 3. If Banette sees a pinch berry, then they are most likely to sub. Taunt, sucker punch, and end this.

All in all, I love Banette doing this since I love playing mind games with my opponent. :]

 

[Automatic]

As being a user of Sucker Puncher with Croak, I have to say it ends up hurting more than it helps.

Unless you have incredibly awesome prediction I don't think it'd work. It seems too situational and EQ has done way more for me in terms of killing

The glaring problem is the same with Honchkrow and gang, he's just too fragile.

 

[Shinryu]

About the only problem with Taunt and Sucker Punch is that most of the Pokemon with access to both usually are too slow or frail to pull off Taunt and live, and are better left trying to predict an attack with Sucker Punch.

 

[X-Codes]

About the only problem with Taunt and Sucker Punch is that most of the Pokemon with access to both usually are too slow or frail to pull off Taunt and live, and are better left trying to predict an attack with Sucker Punch.

The same can be said of about 90% of 'mons that learn Taunt, regardless of whether or not they can use Sucker Punch. I mean, some of the better walls would get thrown into the Ubers if they knew Taunt.

 

[goodcrobat145]

This set could work very well. But a counter would be like a Floatzel with
substitute while you use taunt. Then while you can't use sucker punch, they use a stat uping move like agility then baton bass.

 

[TheMantyke]

Banette actually isn't that bad with Sucker Punch/Taunt like you mentioned. With Frisk, it'll be able to see what the opponent's item is, so that it'll know when its time to taunt, and when to just go right out and use Sucker Punch. It can also Trick off its item on to a Staller and then taunt them so they'll be much easier to stop.

Also, Banette is a great pokemon for playing mind games with this type of set. It can run both Taunt and Snatch. Snatch if you know something will set-up, for example, snatch a swords dance off of Garchomp if for some reason you're playing in standard, and then taunt it so it can't set-up any longer. Now hit it with sucker punch...etc etc. Now let's see what advantages it has with Frisk over the other Sucker Punch-Taunters...

Eg 1. If Banette sees the opponent has a Choice item, then of course it will go right out and Sucker Punch. If it knows it cannot kill it, then it can either Trick or Knock Off. Remember though, only 4 moveslots.

Eg 2. If Banette sees the opponent has Leftovers, it's probably better off taunting and then sucker punching. Or, if you decide that Snatch is a good move, Snatch, then taunt, then sucker punch.

Eg 3. If Banette sees a pinch berry, then they are most likely to sub. Taunt, sucker punch, and end this.

All in all, I love Banette doing this since I love playing mind games with my opponent. :]

Wow, those are some really fantasitc examples. the thing is, a STABBed Shadow sneak does only 20 base powerless then sucker punch and they have the exact same coverage, but If you don't care about coverage, something like taunt/Sucker punh/Shadow sneak/trick or knockoff. absolutey horrible coverage, but effective against whats weak

As being a user of Sucker Puncher with Croak, I have to say it ends up hurting more than it helps.

Unless you have incredibly awesome prediction I don't think it'd work. It seems too situational and EQ has done way more for me in terms of killing

The glaring problem is the same with Honchkrow and gang, he's just too fragile.

using taunt with sucker punch is so that it takes alot less prediction so It's easyer to pull of a sucker punch (the same way that substitute works to make it easyer to get off a focus punch)

This set could work very well. But a counter would be like a Floatzel with
substitute while you use taunt. Then while you can't use sucker punch, they use a stat uping move like agility then baton bass.

Taunt actually goes through substitues, making it so that he can't pass a sub nor an agillity, and at least in toxicroaks case, Flotzel will probably just have a STAB move witch Dryskin absorbs, so It would Force a switch

 

[Re$Ullus]

Frankly I don't think Honchkrow is a viable option for this kind of set either. She rips up shit very easily with a life orb strapped on... I max out hp/attk when I play the Krow anyway sooo it has some survivability (with like 400hp) and is a good switch in counter poke, with insomnia and all.

Oh yea, and I'd like to say that after reading bologos short bannete analysis I was amazed.

 

[cim]

About the only problem with Taunt and Sucker Punch is that most of the Pokemon with access to both usually are too slow or frail to pull off Taunt and live, and are better left trying to predict an attack with Sucker Punch.

Except Spiritomb. Then again, it's his standard set.

Tauntpunching is great for walling Baton Passers. Between Struggle and Sucker Punch, it's pretty much a 2hko.

 

[Ditto132]

I tried a Lonely Honchkrow w/ Life Orb

Sucker Punch
Night Slash
HP Fire 70
Taunt

HP Fire 2hkos skarm with no EVs and a neutral nature.

 

[GonE]

Too bad the set you posted doesn't have HP Fire.

 

[Evil Hamster]

I was thinking about something like this a few days back, it's in the creative movesets thread somewhere.

Absol @ Focus Sash
Nature: Brave
Ability: Super Luck
EV's: 252Atk, 200Hp, 52Def
- Taunt
- Me First
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit

Me First also gets the bonus from Taunt, as then it'll always deal damage :)

 

[GonE]

Me first doesn't have a speed modifier, so using it with Brave is not really a good idea =/.