Suicune

[NOVED]

[OVERVIEW]

Suicune is one of the best Water-types in the format thanks to its great all-around bulk. With its good physical and special defenses, it can be very difficult to take out for some teams, and with Pressure, it can be very effective at stalling other Pokemon out. It's able to check a lot of Pokemon in the metagame such as Garchomp, Mega Kangaskhan, Blaziken, Mega Salamence, and Mamoswine. It often runs Calm Mind to become more threatening offensively as well and has solid Water- and Ice-type coverage that covers most of the metagame bar other Water-types. Suicune can run a variety of viable sets, including moves that can throw off your opponent's game plan such as Mirror Coat, Icy Wind, and Substitute. It has a decent Speed tier for a defensive Pokemon, outspeeding foes such as Porygon2, Tyranitar, and, with some investment, also others such as Rotom-W and Cresselia. However, Suicune's low Special Attack means it needs a few Calm Mind boosts before it can do significant damage. Its only recovery is Rest, which can be somewhat unreliable. If it takes too many hits early on in a match and is forced to use Rest, it is often not as good at dealing with strong threats late-game such as Mega Salamence, Blaziken, and Mega Kangaskhan.

[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Scald
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Rest
item: Chesto Berry
ability: Pressure
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Calm Mind is used to give Suicune a threatening offensive presence; Calm Mind makes Suicune harder for Special Attackers to take on and able to potentially sweep teams. Scald is Suicune's best STAB move because of the high chance to burn, which cripples physical attackers and helps break through bulky Pokemon faster. Ice Beam hits common targets such as Garchomp and Mega Salamence and offers nice coverage against some Grass- and Flying-types such as Breloom and Thundurus. Rest gives Suicune recovery and helps to avoid getting Toxic stalled from the likes of Cresselia and Porygon2.

Set Details
========

Maximum HP and Defense investment is used to take on the many common physical attackers in the format that Suicune can handle, such as Blaziken and Garchomp. Suicune doesn't need to invest in Special Defense because Calm Mind takes care of its Special Defense nicely. Chesto Berry is used so Rest can be used as a reliable option for recovery. It is much more consistent than using up a moveslot on Sleep Talk, which takes up Suicune's coverage and makes you risk wasting two turns. Pressure is the only ability available to Suicune, but it can be very useful to stall out moves, especially ones with only 8 PP.

Usage Tips
========

Suicune should try to get Calm Minds up before special attackers come in. Using Calm Mind allows Suicune to put pressure on the opponent; it can set up on foes it threatens out, and the boosts allow it to better take on whatever switches in. Defensive Pokemon such as Cresselia and Hippowdon can easily be used as setup fodder thanks to Rest and Chesto Berry getting rid of any status. Against strong Pokemon such as Mega Salamence and Blaziken, it is usually be better to attack because they are able to 2HKO Suicune, so setting up Calm Mind could cost you the game. Suicune should be wary of other special attackers that can set up, as it won't usually be able to beat them, such as Nasty Plot Thundurus and other Calm Mind Pokemon that will usually come out on top.

Team Options
========

Suicune works well with Mega Kangaskhan, as Suicune can set up on defensive Pokemon that Mega Kangaskhan struggles to beat such as Cresselia and Hippowdon. Suicune also beats offensive Pokemon that can threaten Mega Kangaskhan such as Blaziken and Garchomp. Mega Gengar can trap threats to Suicune like bulky Grass-types such as Serperior and Mega Venusaur. Mega Gengar can usually beat defensive Rotom-W with status and Hex as well as burn Mega Kangaskhan with Will-O-Wisp so Suicune doesn't have to rely on Scald burns, making it much easier for Suicune to deal with. Blaziken likes Suicune as a teammate because Suicune can deal with Ground-types such as Garchomp and Landorus-T. Suicune also handles Mega Salamence decently so Blaziken doesn't need to worry about it. Mamoswine can help Suicune deal with Thundurus and Zapdos. Garchomp appreciates Suicune because it can use Cresselia as setup fodder and handle Mamoswine easily. Taking these Pokemon out can make it much easier for a Choice Scarf or Swords Dance Garchomp to clean up. Talonflame and Mega Salamence can help take out bulky Grass-types for Suicune. Suicune can also help deal with threats such as Tyranitar and Heatran for Talonflame, and Mamoswine for Mega Salamence. Thundurus can help spread paralysis around so Suicune can outspeed more Pokemon, making it earlier for Suicune to take them out or set up Calm Mind against them. Thundurus can also take out bulky Water-types for Suicune such as as Slowbro, Jellicent, and opposing Suicune. Suicune can also help deal with threats to Thundurus such as Tyranitar and Ground-types like Mamoswine, Excadrill, and Garchomp. Serperior can deal with bulky Water-types and also Breloom thanks to Reflect and Rocky Helmet. Suicune also appreciates the paralysis support from Serperior and helps deal with Pokemon that threaten Serperior such as Blaziken and Talonflame.

[SET]
name: Tank
move 1: Scald
move 2: Ice Beam / Icy Wind
move 3: Rest / Roar
move 4: Roar / Mirror Coat / Toxic / Reflect / Sleep Talk
item: Rocky Helmet
ability: Pressure
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Scald is Suicune's best STAB move, as the high chance to burn is very valuable. Ice Beam hits a lot of common targets such as Garchomp and Mega Salamence and offers nice coverage on Pokemon that resist Water such as Breloom and Serperior. Icy Wind can be used instead, as it still 2HKOes many common Ice-weak Pokemon, and with some Speed investment, Suicune can outspeed them the next turn to avoid more damage. Rest gives Suicune some recovery; it ensures Suicune doesn't go down too soon and allows more turns of Rocky Helmet damage to rack up. Roar helps stop setup sweepers such as Swords Dance Garchomp, Dragon Dance Mega Salamence, Calm Mind Suicune, Calm Mind Slowbro, and Quiver Dance Volcarona. Mirror Coat can help Suicune take out some special attackers that would be tough to deal with otherwise such as Rotom-W, Thundurus, and Gengar. Toxic can wear down other defensive Pokemon such as Cresselia and Porygon2. It can also be nice to stack residual damage alongside Rocky Helmet against physical attackers. Reflect lets Suicune beat Mega Kangaskhan and other physical attackers very well. It can also help teammates out if Suicune goes down. Sleep Talk can be used alongside Rest if you want the chance to attack while Suicune is sleeping after Rest.

Set Details
========

Maximum HP and Defense investment is used because this set is used primarily to deal with physical attackers such as Blaziken and Mega Kangaskhan. When you're using Icy Wind, an alternate spread of 252 HP / 188 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 60 Spe with a Bold nature can be used; this spread allows Suicune to outspeed Garchomp after a Speed drop while maximizing Suicune's bulk. Rocky Helmet is used mainly for Mega Kangaskhan, as Parental Bond will activate Rocky Helmet twice, but it is also useful for other physical Pokemon that make contact such as Blaziken, Mega Salamence, and Talonflame. It is especially nice against these Pokemon because they often use moves with recoil and therefore get a ton of residual damage, making it easier for Suicune to finish them off. Pressure is the only ability Suicune has, but it can sometimes be useful to stall out the foe's moves, especially ones with only 8 PP.

Usage Tips
========

This set is used primarily to take on physical attackers; it can tank hits and use Rocky Helmet to put things closer to KO range. Suicune can switch directly into threats such as Mega Kangaskhan and Blaziken, as Rocky Helmet will rack up a lot of damage and can potentially take out Mega Kangaskhan after Double-Edge recoil. However, if you need Suicune to survive for the rest of the match, you should be wary taking these powerful Pokemon on, as Double-Edge from Adamant Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Salamence have the potential to 2HKO. For the most success Suicune should be brought in on a free turn if possible, after a Pokemon faints or via Volt Switch or U-turn. Coming in safely guarantees Suicune can get an attack off on Pokemon that are able to 2HKO it. Roar can be used when you expect your opponent to switch; this shuffles out what will probably be their answer to Suicune coming in. This is especially effective when Stealth Rock is up to get a bit of chip damage. Mirror Coat is optimal against special attackers that your team struggles with and Suicune might not be able to win against such as defensive Rotom-W and Sylveon. This should usually only be used when Suicune isn't as valuable to you anymore, as it will often have to take a big hit in the process, which will make it easy to revenge kill afterwards.

Team Options
========

Suicune works well with offensive teams, as with all the chip damage Suicune is able to get with Rocky Helmet, Toxic, and Scald, it can wear down teams very nicely for its teammates. Blaziken appreciates Suicune's ability to handle Talonflame and Mega Salamence. Since both these Pokemon often use moves with recoil, Suicune's Rocky Helmet is able to really hinder them, and Suicune threatens each of them with super effective attacks. When you're using Roar, a Pokemon with Stealth Rock synergizes very well. Good setters include Garchomp, Mamoswine, and Hippowdon. Focus Sash Garchomp and Mamoswine can also deal with Electric-types such as Thundurus and Raikou. Ferrothorn can also set Stealth Rock and can deal with some Water-types Suicune might struggle with such as Azumarill. Mega Kangaskhan appreciates Suicune's ability to deal with Pokemon such as Blaziken, Mega Salamence, and Garchomp. With faster threatening Pokemon being dealt with, Mega Kangaskhan has a much easier time. Garchomp appreciates Suicune dealing with Mamoswine and opposing Garchomp. Suicune can also switch into Talonflame, which could burn Garchomp. If running Toxic, Suicune can also help deal with Cresselia and Porygon2. Breloom helps deal with Water-types like Rotom-W and Azumarill. Rock Tomb can make it easier for Suicune to take out certain Pokemon such as Thundurus and Choice Band Dragonite after Breloom goes down. Volcarona likes having Suicune around to deal with Talonflame and Mega Salamence, making it easier to pull of a sweep. Volcarona can also set up on Pokemon Suicune struggles with such as Serperior and Ferrothorn, Lum Berry ensures Volcarona can take a paralysis from either of them as well. Nasty Plot Thundurus can muscle past Rotom-W and opposing Suicune, which are difficult for Suicune to handle. Thundurus can also spread paralysis around so Suicune's Speed doesn't hinder it as much. In return, Suicune can switch into many Thundurus checks such as Mamoswine and Tyranitar. Aegislash can switch into Sylveon, which hits Suicune really hard. Suicune also deals with some Fire-types such as Heatran and Blaziken for Aegislash. Thundurus-T can be a nice teammate able to switch into Electric-types such as Thundurus for Suicune and also easily take out Water-types that Suicune can't break through, while Suicune deals with Mamoswine and other fast Ground-types that threaten Thundurus-T.

[SET]
name: Fast Substitute
move 1: Scald
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Toxic / Calm Mind
move 4: Protect / Ice Beam
item: Leftovers
ability: Pressure
nature: Timid
evs: 156 HP / 60 Def / 4 SpA / 68 SpD / 220 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Scald is Suicune's best STAB move; it might seem to synergize poorly with Toxic, but there are some situations against physical attackers where it is better to burn the opposing Pokemon rather than badly poison it. Substitute is used to avoid status such as burn and poison while also taking less damage from attacks each turn it's used. Substitute can also be useful to avoid being taken out by OHKO moves from Pokemon such as Mamoswine and Glalie. Toxic can be used to stall Pokemon out, taking advantage of Substitute and Protect to use up as many turns of Toxic as possible. Calm Mind gives Suicune the potential to sweep and a good offensive presence; it can set up Substitutes and boost behind them against a lot of defensive Pokemon such as Cresselia and Porygon2. Protect synergizes well with Substitute, as it gives Suicune free turns to get more Leftovers recovery and allows Suicune to make more Substitutes throughout the match. This can also work well with Pressure, as with Substitute and Protect, Suicune can quickly stall out low-PP moves such as Leaf Storm and Fissure. Protect can also mess with Blaziken running High Jump Kick, as they will take 50% when attacking against Protect. Ice Beam can be used for some coverage, which is especially nice with Calm Mind, as it helps against Mega Salamence and Serperior and takes out Garchomp faster.

Set Details
========

The HP investment hits a Leftovers number, giving Suicune more recovery each turn to make more Substitutes. The Speed EVs with a Timid nature let Suicune outspeed positive-natured base 80 Speed Pokemon such as Mamoswine. The remaining EVs are spread out between defenses, with more in Special Defense so Porygon2 gets an Attack raise from Download. Alternatively, maximum Speed investment can be run to outrun neutral-natured maximum Speed Gliscor and Speed tie with Modest Hydreigon, sacrificing some EVs in each defense to make room. Contrary to other Suicune sets, this one has less bulk because the main goal is to use Substitute to take attacks most of the time, so more bulk isn't needed. Leftovers is necessary to make more Substitutes. Although Pressure is the only usable ability, it works great with this set to stall out moves with Substitute and Protect. An alternate spread of 244 / 44 Def / 220 Spe with a Bold nature can be used; this spread lets Suicune outspeed up to maximum Speed base 80s with a neutral nature and focuses more on its bulk, allowing it to play more closely to a tank set.

Usage Tips
========

This set does very well against defensive Pokemon and stall teams. It can set up Substitutes on passive Pokemon such as Cresselia and Slowbro, as Substitute will dodge any status they try to use, and most attacks from them won't be able to break Suicune's Substitute in one turn. Substitute should be used when you're expecting your opponents to switch to get the advantage next turn. Toxic should be used on most defensive Pokemon and Pokemon that you don't need to burn with Scald. When up against a physical attacker such as Mega Kangaskhan or Garchomp, Scald should be used over Toxic to get a potential burn, which will be much more useful. Once a Pokemon is badly poisoned Suicune, should continuously use Substitute and Protect until the Pokemon is in range where Scald is enough to finish it off. When using Calm Mind, Suicune should try to use Substitute against Pokemon that can't break it, using defensive Pokemon as setup fodder to get as many Calm Minds as possible. Once Suicune gets a couple boosts and is behind a Substitute, it becomes very difficult to deal with. Against Pokemon with low-PP moves, Substitute and Protect with Pressure can help counter them. This is especially good against Serperior, as it is a common Suicune check and some sets often run Leaf Storm as their only move. When running Calm Mind, paralysis support can help a lot when trying to set up so Suicune can use Substitute in front of Pokemon that would otherwise outspeed it, and getting Substitute on a full paralysis gives Suicune a huge advantage.

Team Options
========

Physical attackers such as Mega Kangaskhan, Garchomp, Blaziken, and Mega Salamence all appreciate Suicune's ability to deal with physical walls such as Cresselia and Slowbro easily with Toxic. Mega Gengar can use the Toxic Suicune inflicts to do more damage with Hex. It can also trap threats to Suicune such as Sylveon. Thundurus helps deal with opposing Suicune, as Rest variants can be hard for Toxic Suicune to deal with. It also provides paralysis support for sets with Calm Mind, as Suicune can set up Substitutes on the slowed Pokemon and really take advantage of free turns from full paralyses. Suicune also deals with Mamoswine for Thundurus. Bulky Serperior can help deal with Ferrothorn and Breloom; Breloom is especially threatening to Suicune because it very often runs Bullet Seed, which will break through Suicune's Substitutes. Serperior can also use Glare to support Calm Mind in setting up. Mega Salamence works well with Suicune, as it can deal with Mega Venusaur and Breloom, and Suicune can deal with Mamoswine, Cresselia, and Porygon2 for Salamence. Mamoswine really appreciates Cresselia and Porygon2 being badly poisoned and can deal with Thundurus for Suicune. Cresselia can work on teams with this Suicune, as without high Defense investment, it becomes harder for Suicune to deal with threats such as Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Salamence. Cresselia can also offer paralysis support for Calm Mind sets and use Lunar Dance to bring Suicune back to full health if it gets too low after using Substitute so many times. In return, Suicune does well against other defensive Pokemon like Porygon2, which Cresselia has trouble doing much damage to. When you're running Toxic, other teammates with Substitute can also take advantage of Toxic such as Mega Salamence with Substitute and Roost and Gliscor with Poison Heal. Landorus-T appreciates Cresselia being badly poisoned and can U-turn when it expects Cresselia to come in to allow Suicune to come in for free so Suicune doesn't have to risk switching into Toxic from Cresselia.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Sitrus Berry is a decent item for some recovery; it works well with Mirror Coat so Suicune doesn't have to lose as much HP when taking a hit from something like Rotom-W or Thundurus. Surf can be used on sets with Toxic, since you won't always want to burn the opposing Pokemon, but there are some scenarios where you would still want Scald burns on Pokemon such as Mega Kangaskhan and Garchomp, so Scald is usually preferred. Snarl can be really annoying for some special attackers, but the opponent can just switch out to remove the drops, so just using Calm Mind to raise Suicune's Special Defense is usually better. Assault Vest can make use of Mirror Coat and surprise some opponents by letting Suicune take strong Electric-type attacks such as Choice Specs-boosted Thunderbolt from Rotom-W and Thundurus-T, and it can also help Suicune take on many other special attackers with the Special Defense boost. However, Suicune's Special Attack is pretty low and it can't function as well with only attacks, so Assault Vest is only a really viable option when non-Pentagon sets with Sheer Cold are legal.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Electric-types**: Electric-types hit Suicune super effectively, and since Suicune usually doesn't invest in Special Defense and most Electric-types are special attackers, they hit Suicune really hard. Rotom-W resists both Scald and Ice Beam and has a chance to OHKO Suicune with Choice Specs-boosted Thunderbolt before a Calm Mind. Thundurus and Raikou can use Nasty Plot and Calm Mind to keep up with Suicune's boosts from Calm Mind and manage to muscle past it. Zapdos has to watch out for Ice Beam but can Roost off most damage Suicune does and fire back with Thunderbolts.

**Grass-types**: Breloom hits Suicune really hard with Bullet Seed and can break through sets with Substitute. Serperior gets boosts from Leaf Storm to outpace Calm Mind boosts. Mega Venusaur has Thick Fat so it doesn't take much from Ice Beam, hits super effectively with Giga Drain, and can stall Suicune out with help from Leech Seed or Sleep Powder.

**Status Absorbers**: Pokemon with Facade such as Mega Salamence and Mega Kangaskhan can surprise Suicune and take advantage of burns from Scald. Mega Heracross easily 2HKOes with Bullet Seed and breaks through sets with Substitute. It can switch into Scald before Mega Evolving and take advantage of potential burns thanks to Guts. Conkeldurr has Guts to benefit from Scald burns and usually has Assault Vest, so it takes little from Suicune's attacks. It can also Knock Off Suicune's item, which is usually very valuable.

**Calm Mind Users**: Opposing Calm Mind users can potentially beat Suicune in a Calm Mind war. Pokemon with Psyshock, such as Slowbro and Cresselia, are particularly threatening, as they easily beat Suicune because they hit its Defense. Sylveon can use Yawn and muscle past Suicune on the turns it's sleeping, and it can also hit through sets with Substitute with Hyper Voice. Raikou is able to hit Suicune super effectively and can use Substitute to its advantage. Other Suicune with Calm Mind can be an issue if your Suicune doesn't have Calm Mind or Roar. However, some of these Pokemon have to be wary of Substitute + Protect sets stalling them out of their moves.

**Strong Special Attackers**: Suicune typically invests in its Defense, so many special attackers are able to 2HKO it. Choice Specs Sylveon and Gardevoir can do a lot of damage to Suicune and hit through Substitute variants with Hyper Voice. Latios and Hydreigon can 2HKO with Draco Meteor even at -2. Although Calm Mind can help against these Pokemon, Suicune will usually have to set up Calm Mind before they come in to have a chance to beat them. Mega Charizard Y can 2HKO Suicune with Solar Beam and takes little damage from Scald in the sun.

**Trick**: Pokemon such as Rotom-A and Latios can cripple Suicune with a Choice item, as it heavily relies on using its status moves.

**Bulky Water-types**: Some bulky Water-types can be a problem for Suicune. Against Azumarill, Suicune needs to rely on getting a Scald burn, or Azumarill can easily set up a Belly Drum and OHKO with +6 Play Rough. Slowbro is hard for Suicune to break through, and if it's a Calm Mind variant it can beat Suicune in a Calm Mind war with Psyshock. Jellicent can set up Trick Room on Suicune and use Taunt to stop it from using Calm Mind or Rest.

 

[NOVED]

do you guys think sub toxic and sub calm mind should be two different sets or is that a bit excessive?

 

[bobochan]

Negative. I personally believe that 3 sets should suffice.
SubToxic is somewhat outclassed by SubProtect and merely a slash (like what you have already done) is perfectly fine.

Food for thought: Rocky Helmet has held the top item spot for a majority of the seasons except 7, 8 and 15 (so that's 6-3 against Chesto).
Currently in Season 16 Helmet is still leading by a small percentage but I guess it's up to you which set you want to put first.

 

[NOVED]

Negative. I personally believe that 3 sets should suffice.
SubToxic is somewhat outclassed by SubProtect and merely a slash (like what you have already done) is perfectly fine.

Food for thought: Rocky Helmet has held the top item spot for a majority of the seasons except 7, 8 and 15 (so that's 6-3 against Chesto).
Currently in Season 16 Helmet is still leading by a small percentage but I guess it's up to you which set you want to put first.

Yeah i just had chesto at the first set cause it was leading by a decent margin in the latest season, and i'd usually rather represent the most current meta. it is a good point though that helmet overall has been more popular. i'll be checking on the PGL for season 16 to see what item people lean towards. im not opposed to putting helmet at the top.

also, sub toxic and subprotect arent really different sets. did you mean sub calm mind?

 

[bobochan]

Good plan. Ya sorry I meant SubCM!

 

[NOVED]

ok this is ready for QC

some things to note:
decided to keep chestoCM as the first set over helmet because looking through data of the top teams released on aaapokemon i found that an overwhelming amount were chestoCM and very little were rocky helmet(i actually saw 0 helmet cunes between the past 2 seasons unless i missed over a team or two).

this may be controversial idk but on the sub set i decided to slash toxic over CM because in the same data mentioned earlier i found that sub toxic was the second most common set and only saw one subCM one. i also considered that subToxic sets itself apart more than subCM does since we already have a main set dedicated CM. toxic is more unique and focusing on that allowed me to differentiate the sets a lot better imo.

so yeah, go at it.

 

[bobochan]

[OVERVIEW]

Minor things:
With regards to "good defenses on both sides" mention Pressure as well since these are the qualities which make Suicune a true nightmare to face for defensive teams.
For "able to check a lot of pokemon" part it might be worth to include Mamoswine, a big threat for a lot of physical attackers in the metagame.
Sits at a decent speed tier of 85 which lets it outspeed key defensive threats with minimal investment (Rotom-W, Cresselia, Mega Venusaur).
In addition to "rest which can be somewhat unreliable" same thing can be said for Scald when you deliberately go for a burn and it doesn't proc for like 3 turns (happens).

[SET]
name: Calm Mind

Just wondering would Mirror Coat be a viable enough as slash over Ice Beam? You can beat stuff like Thundurus and Serperior that might not expect it, since at +1 Ice Beam wouldn't be able to KO either mons anyway.

Set Details
========

If this section turns to be too short when you write it up, you can talk about Pressure being an awesome ability for Suicune.

Team Options
========

When you talk about Thundurus also mention that it helps Suicune take out bulky Water-types including Slowbro and opposing Suicune. You can add Serperior as a teammate as well while you're at it.

[SET]
name: Tank

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

-roar helps stop setup sweepers like SD chomp, DD mence, Pup kanga
As this set lacks Calm Mind, special sweepers are the bigger targets for Roar like opposing Suicune, BRO and Quiver Dance Volcarona. Physical threats are less relevant here due to potential of burn from Scald and Ice Beam hits them for a significant amount (+Helmet damage).

[SET]
name: Fast Substitute

Just a personal preference here but I just want to state that I prefer it for Calm Mind to get priority over Toxic in the slash. You have the potential to set up Calm Mind on things like Cresselia and Porygon2 who can't do anything. You also lose the potential to set up on things like Aegislash and Ferrothorn due to Toxic being useless. The CM set still differentiates itself from the first set because SubProtect -> Rest + Filler move. (In the end it's up to you though.)

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

When you talk about Protect note how its good for playing mind games with Blaziken's High Jump Kick.

Set Details
========

Alternate bulkier spread: 236 HP / 252 Def / 20 Spe Bold Nature. Gives you 4 subs + 1 HP, 20 Speed to outspeed the absolute minimum (Rotom-W, Cresselia). The rest in Defense allows more chances to set up Calm Mind against physical threats.

Team Options
========

-bulky serperior can help deal with ferrothorn and loom
Ferrothorn is much less of a threat here to Suicune than other sets, you can potentially PP stall it out. It's greatest chance of beating Suicune, Power Whip, has appalling accuracy. (Example of why CM > Toxic against this guy here.)
-mence works well with suicune as it can deal with mega venu & breloom for suicune.
Mega Venusaur is also less relevant in dealing with this Suicune, especially when switching into CM or Sub.
If running Toxic over CM, other CM users make decent teammates (Raikou, for example). Can help stall with its own Substitute, helps beat opposing Suicune and Electric-types.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Trick**: Common users include Rotom-W, Gardevoir, Latios and Togekiss.

**Facade: Mega Salamence/Mega Altaria.

With regards to Leech Seed + Sleep Powder Mega Venusaur, I think that combination is pretty rare (but infinity does use it so...).

Non-CM Suicune also loses to CM Suicune, especially if you lack Roar.

1/3

 

[Nelson Tangela]

Ferrothorn is much less of a threat here to Suicune than other sets, you can potentially PP stall it out. It's greatest chance of beating Suicune, Power Whip, has appalling accuracy. (Example of why CM > Toxic against this guy here.)

I'm not an analysis writer, a badge holder or one of the cool nerds around here, but Choice Band Ferrothorn do exist and run Bullet Seed. Actually, Choice Band is Ferrothorn's third most common item (~14%) and Bullet Seed is on more Ferrothorn than you might think (~25%). Saying that Power Whip is its greatest chance of beating Sub Suicune is just wrong.

My cent.

 

[NOVED]

[OVERVIEW]

Minor things:
With regards to "good defenses on both sides" mention Pressure as well since these are the qualities which make Suicune a true nightmare to face for defensive teams.
For "able to check a lot of pokemon" part it might be worth to include Mamoswine, a big threat for a lot of physical attackers in the metagame.
Sits at a decent speed tier of 85 which lets it outspeed key defensive threats with minimal investment (Rotom-W, Cresselia, Mega Venusaur).
In addition to "rest which can be somewhat unreliable" same thing can be said for Scald when you deliberately go for a burn and it doesn't proc for like 3 turns (happens).

[SET]
name: Calm Mind

Just wondering would Mirror Coat be a viable enough as slash over Ice Beam? You can beat stuff like Thundurus and Serperior that might not expect it, since at +1 Ice Beam wouldn't be able to KO either mons anyway.

Set Details
========

If this section turns to be too short when you write it up, you can talk about Pressure being an awesome ability for Suicune.

Team Options
========

When you talk about Thundurus also mention that it helps Suicune take out bulky Water-types including Slowbro and opposing Suicune. You can add Serperior as a teammate as well while you're at it.

[SET]
name: Tank

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

-roar helps stop setup sweepers like SD chomp, DD mence, Pup kanga
As this set lacks Calm Mind, special sweepers are the bigger targets for Roar like opposing Suicune, BRO and Quiver Dance Volcarona. Physical threats are less relevant here due to potential of burn from Scald and Ice Beam hits them for a significant amount (+Helmet damage).

[SET]
name: Fast Substitute

Just a personal preference here but I just want to state that I prefer it for Calm Mind to get priority over Toxic in the slash. You have the potential to set up Calm Mind on things like Cresselia and Porygon2 who can't do anything. You also lose the potential to set up on things like Aegislash and Ferrothorn due to Toxic being useless. The CM set still differentiates itself from the first set because SubProtect -> Rest + Filler move. (In the end it's up to you though.)

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

When you talk about Protect note how its good for playing mind games with Blaziken's High Jump Kick.

Set Details
========

Alternate bulkier spread: 236 HP / 252 Def / 20 Spe Bold Nature. Gives you 4 subs + 1 HP, 20 Speed to outspeed the absolute minimum (Rotom-W, Cresselia). The rest in Defense allows more chances to set up Calm Mind against physical threats.

Team Options
========

-bulky serperior can help deal with ferrothorn and loom
Ferrothorn is much less of a threat here to Suicune than other sets, you can potentially PP stall it out. It's greatest chance of beating Suicune, Power Whip, has appalling accuracy. (Example of why CM > Toxic against this guy here.)
-mence works well with suicune as it can deal with mega venu & breloom for suicune.
Mega Venusaur is also less relevant in dealing with this Suicune, especially when switching into CM or Sub.
If running Toxic over CM, other CM users make decent teammates (Raikou, for example). Can help stall with its own Substitute, helps beat opposing Suicune and Electric-types.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Trick**: Common users include Rotom-W, Gardevoir, Latios and Togekiss.

**Facade: Mega Salamence/Mega Altaria.

With regards to Leech Seed + Sleep Powder Mega Venusaur, I think that combination is pretty rare (but infinity does use it so...).

Non-CM Suicune also loses to CM Suicune, especially if you lack Roar.

1/3

added most of this.

for the subtoxic, the reason i like subtoxic more is cause toxic always makes use of turns when you're sub protecting. its constantly racking up damage while you stall. with cm you only gain recovery and pp stall when subtect, and you still dont do a lot of damage until you get some CMs which also take a few turns to get going, again all while not doing damage for a while. i feel that toxic really takes advantage of subprotect stalling way more than CM does and thats why i like it first. i acknowledge that CM is still good though, which is why its a slash and i still talk about it in most of the set.

also with calling scald unreliable, i dont really like that. its not meant to be like a will o wisp attack, its just a consistent STAB with a great bonus sometimes.

& i think mirror coat is kinda counterproductive with calm mind. and with thundurus and serperior, after a +1 from calm mind mirror coat wont even actually kill bulky variants of both those mons a lot of the time so ice beam kinda does the same thing in that scenario

 

[Theorymon]

Time to check this so you can get to writing! I don't really have much to add though lol...

- In the overview, I'd expand a bit on Rest's flaw, and mention that in general, Suicune is easier to wear down than the other major walls of Battle Spot Singles, meaning that often times in late game, it can get knocked out by stuff it'd normally check just because it took too many hits early on and was forced to Rest.

-Maybe add Landorus-T as a teammate for Subtoxic Suicune. That thing really likes Cresselia and friends being down, plus it can actually U-turn to Suicune when those things switch-in, giving you and edge and avoiding the risk of them toxicing your Suicune.

-This one is a bit weird, but in the past I've found Thundurus-T to be a pretty decent teammate to Suicune in general, mostly because of the Electric immunity and helping out against Thundurus.

-In other options, I'd mention Assault Vest, since it can allow Suicune to survive some really strong electric-type attacks to Mirror Coat. The big issue with it (and the reason why its other options) is because without Sheer Cold, Suicune with just all attacks doesn't really work out too great with that SpA.

-Maybe mention Snarl in other options. Its very, very rare in Battle Spot Singles compared to Doubles and Triples, but it can really be annoying to Special Attackers. I mean they can just switch out which is the big problem with it, but its still very annoying!

-I wouldn't call this a counter per say, but something worth mentioning in either the sets or checks/counters is that +6 Azumarill does OHKO Suicune, meaning that Suicune has to rely on Scald burns in order to avoid getting pounded by that thing!

Otherwise besides my small nitpicks, you got Suicune down to a T as far as I can tell, so...

QC Approved 2/3

 

[NOVED]

thanks tmon, implemented all this. will start writing soon!

 

[NOVED]

this is written up and ready for the next check

cant say Hulavuta DragonWhale Demantoid Psynergy

 

[Psynergy]

S U I C U N E

I honestly don't have a ton to say, mostly a few minor things, GP-esque stuff and possible compressing in Checks and Counters.

[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Scald
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Calm Mind I know I usually get told to put setup moves first, looks kinda weird but I guess that's a GP thing.
move 4: Rest
item: Chesto Berry
ability: Pressure
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Scald is Suicune's best STAB because of the high chance to burn. I'd personally add that the burns also let it break through really bulky stuff faster.

[SET]
name: Tank
move 1: Scald
move 2: Ice Beam / Icy Wind
move 3: Rest / Roar
move 4: Roar / Mirror Coat / Toxic / Reflect / Sleep Talk
item: Rocky Helmet
ability: Pressure
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Reflect lets Suicune beat Mega Kangaskhan and other physical attacker very well. It can also help teammates out if Suicune foes down. Typo, foes should be goes.

Team Options
========

Volcarona can also setup on Pokemon Suicune struggle (missing a letter) with such as Serperior and Ferrothorn, Lum Berry ensures Volcarona can take a paralysis from either of them as well.

You kinda imply it with all the offensive mons but I might add that this Suicune fits well on offensive teams since Rocky Helmet, Toxic and stuff helps wear down teams really nicely for teammates to sweep.

[SET]
name: Fast Substitute
move 1: Scald
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Toxic / Calm Mind
move 4: Protect / Ice Beam
item: Leftovers
ability: Pressure
nature: Timid
evs: 156 HP / 60 Def / 4 SpA / 68 SpD / 220 Spe

Set Details
========

The Speed EVs with a Timid nature outspeeds Jolly Mamoswine. Is there a reason this set only goes this high? I run this exact spread for a CM set but does max Speed not outspeed anything notable above +Speed base 80? Might be worth mentioning that, and maybe change it to "outspeeds positive nature Base 80s such as Mamoswine" or something.

Usage Tips
========

This set runs train on defensive Pokemon and Stall teams. I feel like this phrasing might be too casual for GP, just something I wanted to point out though so you can leave it for now.

It can set up Substitutes on passive Pokemon such as Cresselia and Slowbro. I'd mention that these threats may try to hit Suicune with status moves, which makes setting up Substitute even more effective against them.

Team Options
========

Mega Salamence works well with Suicune as it can deal with Mega Venusaur and Breloom, and Suicune can deal with Mamswine (typo), Cresselia, and Porygon2 for Salamence.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

More offensive sets can be used with Hydro Pump and Tailwind but aren't as viable as Suicunes more defensive sets because Suicune's bulk is its biggest selling point. Surf can be used on sets with Toxic since you won't always want to burn the opposing Pokemon, but there are some scenarios where you would still want Scald burns on Pokemon such as Mega Kangaskhan and Garchomp so Scald is usually preferred. Snarl can be really annoying for some special attackers, but the opponent can just switch out to remove the drops so just using Calm Mind to raise Suicune's Special Defense is usually better. How viable is this stuff? I'd personally never run any of these moves except maybe Snarl (sound moves are annoying) and they get almost no usage. In theory this stuff is fine I think, but you can remove some of these options if you don't feel they're actually worth it.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Electric-types**: They hit Suicune super effectively and since Suicune usually doesn't invest in Special Defense most Electric-types are special attackers, they hit Suicune really hard. Rotom-W resists both Scald and Ice Beam and has a chance to OHKO with Choice Specs Thunderbolt before a Calm Mind. Thundurus and Raikou can use Nasty Plot and Calm Mind to keep up with Suicune's boosts from Calm Mind and manage to muscle past it. Mention Zapdos imo, with a warning about Ice Beam still hurting.

**Conkeldurr**: It usually has Assault Vest so it takes little from Suicune's attacks. It can Knock Off Suicune's item which is usually very valuable. Since Conkeldurr has Guts it actually benefits from Scald burns, making it an easy switch-in to Suicune.

**Mega Heracross**: It easily 2HKOes with Bullet Seed and breaks through sets with Substitute. It can switch into Scald pre-Mega and take advantage of potential Scald burns thanks to Guts.

**Facade**: Pokemon with Facade such as Mega Salamence and Mega Kangaskhan can surprise Suicune and take advantage of burns from Scald. You might be able to compress this and the above two sections into "status absorbers" or something, since they all kinda beat Suicune the same way by abusing Suicune's attempts to burn or poison them.

**Mega Charizard Y**: Solar Beam is an easy 2HKO and Charizard takes little from Scald in the Sun. I feel like this could be included in the Strong Special Attackers section instead of having its own. The sun thing is kinda unique but idk if that's enough for a full section by itself when it fits nicely in another larger section.


3/3

 

[NOVED]

S U I C U N E

I honestly don't have a ton to say, mostly a few minor things, GP-esque stuff and possible compressing in Checks and Counters.

[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Scald
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Calm Mind I know I usually get told to put setup moves first, looks kinda weird but I guess that's a GP thing.
move 4: Rest
item: Chesto Berry
ability: Pressure
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Scald is Suicune's best STAB because of the high chance to burn. I'd personally add that the burns also let it break through really bulky stuff faster.

[SET]
name: Tank
move 1: Scald
move 2: Ice Beam / Icy Wind
move 3: Rest / Roar
move 4: Roar / Mirror Coat / Toxic / Reflect / Sleep Talk
item: Rocky Helmet
ability: Pressure
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Reflect lets Suicune beat Mega Kangaskhan and other physical attacker very well. It can also help teammates out if Suicune foes down. Typo, foes should be goes.

Team Options
========

Volcarona can also setup on Pokemon Suicune struggle (missing a letter) with such as Serperior and Ferrothorn, Lum Berry ensures Volcarona can take a paralysis from either of them as well.

You kinda imply it with all the offensive mons but I might add that this Suicune fits well on offensive teams since Rocky Helmet, Toxic and stuff helps wear down teams really nicely for teammates to sweep.

[SET]
name: Fast Substitute
move 1: Scald
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Toxic / Calm Mind
move 4: Protect / Ice Beam
item: Leftovers
ability: Pressure
nature: Timid
evs: 156 HP / 60 Def / 4 SpA / 68 SpD / 220 Spe

Set Details
========

The Speed EVs with a Timid nature outspeeds Jolly Mamoswine. Is there a reason this set only goes this high? I run this exact spread for a CM set but does max Speed not outspeed anything notable above +Speed base 80? Might be worth mentioning that, and maybe change it to "outspeeds positive nature Base 80s such as Mamoswine" or something.

Usage Tips
========

This set runs train on defensive Pokemon and Stall teams. I feel like this phrasing might be too casual for GP, just something I wanted to point out though so you can leave it for now.

It can set up Substitutes on passive Pokemon such as Cresselia and Slowbro. I'd mention that these threats may try to hit Suicune with status moves, which makes setting up Substitute even more effective against them.

Team Options
========

Mega Salamence works well with Suicune as it can deal with Mega Venusaur and Breloom, and Suicune can deal with Mamswine (typo), Cresselia, and Porygon2 for Salamence.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

More offensive sets can be used with Hydro Pump and Tailwind but aren't as viable as Suicunes more defensive sets because Suicune's bulk is its biggest selling point. Surf can be used on sets with Toxic since you won't always want to burn the opposing Pokemon, but there are some scenarios where you would still want Scald burns on Pokemon such as Mega Kangaskhan and Garchomp so Scald is usually preferred. Snarl can be really annoying for some special attackers, but the opponent can just switch out to remove the drops so just using Calm Mind to raise Suicune's Special Defense is usually better. How viable is this stuff? I'd personally never run any of these moves except maybe Snarl (sound moves are annoying) and they get almost no usage. In theory this stuff is fine I think, but you can remove some of these options if you don't feel they're actually worth it.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Electric-types**: They hit Suicune super effectively and since Suicune usually doesn't invest in Special Defense most Electric-types are special attackers, they hit Suicune really hard. Rotom-W resists both Scald and Ice Beam and has a chance to OHKO with Choice Specs Thunderbolt before a Calm Mind. Thundurus and Raikou can use Nasty Plot and Calm Mind to keep up with Suicune's boosts from Calm Mind and manage to muscle past it. Mention Zapdos imo, with a warning about Ice Beam still hurting.

**Conkeldurr**: It usually has Assault Vest so it takes little from Suicune's attacks. It can Knock Off Suicune's item which is usually very valuable. Since Conkeldurr has Guts it actually benefits from Scald burns, making it an easy switch-in to Suicune.

**Mega Heracross**: It easily 2HKOes with Bullet Seed and breaks through sets with Substitute. It can switch into Scald pre-Mega and take advantage of potential Scald burns thanks to Guts.

**Facade**: Pokemon with Facade such as Mega Salamence and Mega Kangaskhan can surprise Suicune and take advantage of burns from Scald. You might be able to compress this and the above two sections into "status absorbers" or something, since they all kinda beat Suicune the same way by abusing Suicune's attempts to burn or poison them.

**Mega Charizard Y**: Solar Beam is an easy 2HKO and Charizard takes little from Scald in the Sun. I feel like this could be included in the Strong Special Attackers section instead of having its own. The sun thing is kinda unique but idk if that's enough for a full section by itself when it fits nicely in another larger section.


3/3

thanks man, did all this. sending to GP

 

[GatoDelFuego]

NOVED

REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

Hide

[OVERVIEW]

Suicune is one of the best Water-types in the format thanks to its great all-around bulk. With its good physical and special defenses on both sides it can be very difficult to take out for some teams and with Pressure it can be very effective at stalling other Pokemon out. It's able to check a lot of Pokemon in the meta such as Garchomp, Mega Kangaskhan, Blaziken, Mega Salamence, Mamoswine, (AC) and many more. It often runs Calm Mind to become more threatening offensively as well and has solid Water- and Ice-type coverage that covers most of the meta bar other Water-types. Suicune can run a variety of viable movesets, including moves that can throw off your opponent's game plan such as Mirror Coat, Icy Wind, and Substitute. It has a decent Speed tier for a defensive Pokemon, outspeeding things such as Porygon2 and Tyranitar and with some investment can outspeed others such as Rotom-W and Cresselia. However, Suicune's low Special Attack means it needs a few Calm Mind boosts before it can do significant damage. Its only recovery is Rest, (AC) which can be somewhat unreliable. If it takes too many hits early on in a match and is forced to Rest, it is often not as good at dealing with strong threats late-game such as Mega Salamence, Blaziken, and Mega Kangaskhan.

[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Scald
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Rest
item: Chesto Berry
ability: Pressure
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Calm Mind is used to give Suicune a threatening offensive presences; (SC) Calm Mind it makes it Suicune harder for Special Attackers to take it on and can able to potentially sweep teams. Scald is Suicune's best STAB move because of the high chance to burn, which cripples physical attackers and helps break through bulky Pokemon faster. Ice Beam hits common targets such as Garchomp and Mega Salamence and offers nice coverage against some Grass- and Flying-types such as Breloom and Thundurus. Rest gives Suicune recovery and helps to avoid getting Toxic stalled from the likes of Cresselia and Porygon2.

Set Details
========

Maximum HP and Defense investment is used to take on the many common physical attackers in the format that Suicune can handle, such as Blaziken and Garchomp. Suicune doesn't need to invest in Special Defense because Calm Mind takes care of its Special Defense nicely. Chesto Berry is used so Rest can be used as a reliable option for recovery. It is much more consistent than using up a moveslot on Sleep Talk, which takes up your Suicune's coverage and makes you risk wasting 2 two turns. Pressure is the only ability available to Suicune but it can be very useful to stall out moves, especially ones with only 8 PP.

Usage Tips
========

Suicune should try to get Calm Minds up before Special Attackers come in. Using Calm Mind allows Suicune to put pressure on the opponent; (SC) it can set up on things it threatens out and thanks to the boosts it can better take on whatever switches in. Defensive Pokemon such as Cresselia and Hippowdon can easily be used as setup fodder thanks to Rest and Chesto Berry getting rid of any status. Against strong Pokemon such as Mega Salamence and Blaziken it may is usually be better to attack because they are able to 2HKO Suicune, so and setting up Calm Mind could cost you the game. Suicune should be wary of other special attackers that can set up, (AC) as it wont usually be able to beat them, such as Nasty Plot Thundurus and other Calm Mind Pokemon that will usually come out on top.

Team Options
========

Suicune works well with Mega Kangaskhan, (AC) as Suicune can setup on defensive Pokemon that Mega Kangaskhan struggles to beat such as Cresselia and Hippowdon. Suicune also beats offensive Pokemon that can threaten Mega Kangaskhan such as Blaziken and Garchomp. Mega Gengar can trap threats to Suicune like bulky Grass-types such as Serperior and Mega Venusaur. Mega Gengar can usually beat defensive Rotom-W with status and Hex; (SC) it Mega Gengar can also Will-O-Wisp Mega Kangaskhan so Suicune doesn't have to rely on Scald burns against it, making it much easier for Suicune to deal with. Blaziken likes Suicune as a teammate because Suicune can deal with Ground-types such as Garchomp and Landorus-T. Suicune also handles Mega Salamence decently so Blaziken doesn't need to worry about it. Mamoswine can help Suicune deal with Thundurus and Zapdos. Garchomp appreciates Suicune because it can use Cresselia as setup fodder and handle Mamoswines easily. Taking these Pokemon out can make it much easier for a Choice Scarf or Swords Dance Garchomp to clean up. Talonflame and Mega Salamence can help take out bulky Grass-types for Suicune. Suicne can also help deal with things threats such as Tyranitar and Heatran for Talonflame, and Mamoswine for Mega Salamence. Thundurus can help spread paralysis around so Suicune can outspeed more Pokemon, making it earlier for Suicune to take them out or set up Calm Mind against them. Thundurus can also take out bulky Water-types for Suicune such as as Slowbro, Jellicent, and opposing Suicune. Suicune can also help deal with threats to Thundurus such as Tyranitar and Ground-types like Mamoswine, Excadrill, and Garchomp. Serperior can deal with bulky Water-types and also Breloom thanks to Reflect and Rocky Helmet. Suicune also appreciates the paralysis support from Serperior and helps deal with Pokemon that threaten Serperior such as Blaziken and Talonflame.

[SET]
name: Tank
move 1: Scald
move 2: Ice Beam / Icy Wind
move 3: Rest / Roar
move 4: Roar / Mirror Coat / Toxic / Reflect / Sleep Talk
item: Rocky Helmet
ability: Pressure
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Scald is Suicune's best STAB move, as the high chance to burn is very valuable. Ice Beam hits a lot of common targets such as Garchomp and Mega Salamence and offers nice coverage on Pokemon that resist Water resists such as Breloom and Serperior. Icy Wind can be used instead, (AC) as it still 2HKOs many common Ice-weak Pokemon and with some Speed investment it Suicune can outspeed the next turn to avoid more damage. Rest gives Suicune some recovery; (SC) it ensures Suicune doesn't go down too soon and allows more turns for of Rocky Helmet damage to rack up. Roar helps stop setup sweepers such as Swords Dance Garchomp, Dragon Dance Mega Salamence, Calm Mind Suicune, Calm Mind Slowbro, and Quiver Dance Volcarona. Mirror Coat can help Suicune take out some special attackers that would be tough to deal with otherwise such as Rotom-W, Thundurus, and Gengar. Toxic can wear down other defensive Pokemon such as Cresselia and Porygon2. It can also be nice to stack residual damage alongside Rocky Helmet against physical attackers. Reflect lets Suicune beat Mega Kangaskhan and other physical attacker very well. It can also help teammates out if Suicune goes down. Sleep Talk can be used alongside Rest if you want the chance to attack while Suicune is sleeping after Rest.

Set Details
========

Maximum HP and Defense investment is used because this set is used primarily to deal with physical attackers such as Blaziken and Mega Kangaskhan. When using Icy Wind an alternate spread of 252 HP / 188 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpDef / 60 Spe with a Bold nature can be used; (SC) this spread allows Suicune to outspeed Garchomp after a Speed drop while maximizing Suicune's bulk. Rocky Helmet is used mainly for Mega Kangaskhan, (AC) as Parental Bond will activate Rocky Helmet twice, but it is also useful for other physical Pokemon that make contact such as Blaziken, Mega Salamence, and Talonflame. It is especially nice against these Pokemon because they often use moves with recoil and they get a ton of residual damage, making it easier for Suicune to finish them off. Pressure is the only ability Suicune has, but it can sometimes be useful to stall out the opponents foe's moves, especially ones with only 8 PP as it will only take 4 four uses for it be stalled out.

Usage Tips
========

This is set is used primarily to take on physical attackers; (SC) it can tank hits and use Rocky Helmet to put things closer to KO range. Suicune can switch directly into threats such as Mega Kangaskhan and Blaziken, as Rocky Helmet will rack up a lot of damage and can potentially take out Mega Kangaskhan after Double-Edge recoil. But if you need Suicune to survive for the rest of the match you should be wary taking these powerful Pokemon on, (AC) as Double-Edge from Adamant Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Salamence have the potential to 2HKO. For the most success Suicune should be brought in on a free turn if possible, after a Pokemon faints or after it's brought in via Volt Switch or U-turn. Coming in safely guarantees Suicune can get an attack off on Pokemon that are able to 2HKO it. Roar can be used when you expect your opponent to switch; (SC) this shuffles out what will probably be their answer to Suicune coming in. This is especially effective when Stealth Rock are is up to get a bit of chip damage. Mirror Coat is most optimal against special attackers that your team struggles with and Suicune may might not be able to win against such as defensive Rotom-W and Sylveon. This should usually only be used when Suicune isn't as valuable to you anymore, as it will often have to take a big hit in the process which will make Suicune easy to revenge kill afterwards.

Team Options
========

Suicune works well with offensive teams, as with all the chip damage Suicune is able to get with Rocky Helmet, Toxic, and Scald it can wear down teams very nicely for its teammates. Blaziken appreciates Suicune's ability to handle Talonflame and Mega Salamence. Since both these Pokemon often use moves with recoil Suicune's Rocky Helmet is able to really hinder them and Suicune threatens each of them with super effective attacks. When using Roar, a Pokemon with Stealth Rock synergizes very well. Good setters include Garchomp, Mamoswine, and Hippowdon. Focus Sash Garchomp and Mamoswine can also deal with Electric-types such as Thundurus and Raikou. Ferrothorn can also set Stealth Rock and can deal with some Water-types Suicune may might struggle with such as Azumarill. Mega Kangaskhan appreciates Suicune's ability to deal with Pokemon such as Blaziken, Mega Salamence, and Garchomp. With faster threatening Pokemon being dealt with Mega Kangaskhan has a much easier time. Garchomp appreciates Suicune dealing with Mamoswine and opposing Garchomp. Suicune can also switch into Talonflame which could burn Garchomp. If running Toxic Suicune can also help deal with Cresselia and Porygon2. Breloom helps deal with Water-types like Rotom-W and Azumarill. Rock Tomb can make it easier for Suicune to take out certain Pokemon such as Thundurus or Choice Band Dragonite after Breloom goes down. Volcarona likes having Suicune around to deal with Talonflame and Mega Salamence, making it easier for Volcarona to pull of a sweep. Volcarona can also set up on Pokemon Suicune struggles with such as Serperior and Ferrothorn, Lum Berry ensures Volcarona can take a paralysis from either of them as well. Nasty Plot Thundurus can muscle past Rotom-W and opposing Suicune which are difficult for Suicune to handle. Thundurus can also spread paralysis around so Suicune's Speed doesn't hinder it as much. Suicune can also switch into many Thundurus checks such as Mamoswine and Tyranitar. Aegislash can switch into Sylveon which hits Suicune really hard. Suicune also deals with some Fire-types such as Heatran and Blaziken for Aegislash. Thundurus-T can be a nice teammate able to switch into Electric-types such as Thundurus-I for Suicune and also easily take out Water-types that Suicune can't break through, while Suicune deals with Mamoswine and other fast Ground-types that threaten Thundurus-T.

[SET]
name: Fast Substitute
move 1: Scald
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Toxic / Calm Mind
move 4: Protect / Ice Beam
item: Leftovers
ability: Pressure
nature: Timid
evs: 156 HP / 60 Def / 4 SpA / 68 SpD / 220 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Scald is Suicune's best STAB move; (SC) it may might seem to synergize poorly with Toxic but there are some situations against physical attackers where it is better to burn the opposing Pokemon rather than use Toxic. Substitute is used to avoid status such as burn and poison while also taking less damage from attacks each turn it's used. Substitute can also be useful to avoid being taken out by OHKO moves from Pokemon such as Mamoswine and Glalie. Toxic can be used to stall Pokemon out, taking advantage of Substitute and Protect to use up as many turns of Toxic as possible. Calm Mind gives Suicune the potential to sweep and a good offensive, this doesn't make sense, what are you trying to say here? it can set up Substitutes and Calm Mind behind them against a lot of defensive Pokemon such as Cresselia and Porygon2. Protect synergizes well with Substitute as it gives you Suicune free turns to get more Leftovers recovery and allows you Suicune to make more Substitutes throughout the match. This can also work well with Pressure, as with Substitute and Protect Suicune can quickly stall out low-PP moves such as Leaf Storm and Fissure. Protect can also mess with Blaziken running High Jump Kick, (AC) as they will take 50% when attacking against Protect. Ice Beam can be used for some coverage, (AC) which is especially nice with Calm Mind, as it helps against Mega Salamence, Serperior, and takes out Garchomp faster.

Set Details
========

The HP investment hits a Leftovers number, giving Suicune more recovery each turn to make more Substitutes. The Speed EVs with a Timid nature lets Suicune outspeeds positive-natured base 80 Speed Pokemon such as Mamoswine. The remaining EVs were are spread out between defenses, with more in Special Defense so Porygon2 gets an Attack raise from Download. Alternatively, Maximum Speed investment can be run to outrun High speed max Speed or is it not max? If not, then say the Speed number Gliscor and Speed tie with Modest Hydreigon, while sacrificing some EVs in each defense to make room. Contrary to other Suicune sets, this one has less bulk because the main goal is to use Substitute to take attacks most of the time, so more bulk isn't needed. Leftovers is necessary to make more Substitutes. Although Pressure is the only usable ability, it works great with this set to stall out moves with Substitute and Protect. An alternate spread of 244 / 44 Def / 220 Spe with a Bold nature can be used; (SC) this spread outspeeds up to max Speed base 80s with a neutral nature and focuses more on Suicune's bulk, allowing it to play more closely to a tank set.

Usage Tips
========

This set does very well against defensive Pokemon and stall teams. It can set up Substitutes on passive Pokemon such as Cresselia and Slowbro, as Substitute will dodge any status they try to use and most attacks from them won't be able to break your Suicune's Substitute in one turn. Substitute should be used when expecting your opponents to switch to get the advantage next turn. Toxic should be used on most defensive Pokemon and Pokemon that you don't need to burn with Scald. When up against a physical attacker such as Mega Kangaskhan and Garchomp, Scald should be used over Toxic to get a potential burn which will be much more useful. Once a Pokemon is badly poisoned Suicune should continuously use Substitute and Protect until the Pokemon is in range where Scald is enough to finish it off. When using Calm Mind it Suicune should try to use Substitute against Pokemon that can't break it, using defensive Pokemon as setup fodder to get as many Calm Minds as possible. Once Suicune gets a couple boosts and is behind a Substitute it becomes very difficult to deal with. Against Pokemon with low-PP moves, Substitute and Protect with Pressure can help counter them. This is especially good against Serperior, (AC) as it is a common Suicune check and some sets often run Leaf Storm as their its only move. When running Calm Mind, paralysis support can help a lot when trying to set up so Suicune can use Substitute in front of Pokemon that would otherwise outspeed it, and getting Substitute on a full paralysis gives Suicune a huge advantage.

Team Options
========

Physical attackers such as Mega Kangaskhan, Garchomp, Blaziken, and Mega Salamence all appreciate Suicune being able to deal with physical walls such as Cresselia and Slowbro easily with Toxic. Mega Gengar can use the Toxic Suicune spread to its advantage do more damage with Hex. It can also trap threats to Suicune such as Sylveon. Thundurus helps deal with opposing Suicune, as Rest variants can be a hard Pokemon for Toxic Suicune to deal with. It also provides paralysis support for sets with Calm Mind, as Suicune can set up Substitutes on the slowed down Pokemon and really take advantage of free turns from full paralyzes. Suicune also deals with Mamoswine for Thundurus. Bulky Serperior can help deal with Ferrothorn and Breloom; (SC) Breloom is especially threatening to Suicune because it very often runs Bullet Seed which will break through Suicune's Substitutes. Serperior can also use Glare to support Calm Mind in setting up. Mega Salamence works well with Suicune, (AC) as it can deal with Mega Venusaur and Breloom, and Suicune can deal with Mamoswine, Cresselia, and Porygon2 for Salamence. Mamoswine really appreciates Cresselia and Porygon2 being badly poisoned and can deal with Thundurus for Suicune. Cresselia can work on teams with this Suicune, (AC) as without high Defense investment it becomes harder for Suicune to deal with threats such as Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Salamence. Cresselia can also offer paralysis support for Calm Mind sets and use Lunar Dance to bring Suicune back to full health if it gets too low after using Substitute so many times. Cresselia also has trouble doing much damage to other defensive Pokemon like Porygon2 and Suicune does well against them. When running Toxic, other teammates with Substitute can also take advantage of Toxic such as Mega Salamence with Substitute and Roost, and Gliscor with Poison Heal. Landorus-T appreciates Cresselia being badly poisoned, and can U-turn when it expects Cresselia to come in and allows to allow Suicune to come in for free so it Suicune doesn't have to risk switching into Toxic from Cresselia.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Sitrus Berry is a decent item for some recovery, it works well with Mirror Coat so Suicune doesn't have to lose as much HP when taking a hit from something like Rotom-W or Thundurus. Surf can be used on sets with Toxic, (AC) since you won't always want to burn the opposing Pokemon, but there are some scenarios where you would still want Scald burns on Pokemon such as Mega Kangaskhan and Garchomp so Scald is usually preferred. Snarl can be really annoying for some special attackers, but the opponent can just switch out to remove the drops so just using Calm Mind to raise Suicune's Special Defense is usually better. Assault Vest can make use out of Mirror Coat and surprise some opponents by living letting Suicune take strong Electric-type attacks such as Choice Specs Thunderbolt from Rotom-W and Thundurus-T, and can also help Suicune take on many other special attackers with the Special Defense boost. However, Suicune's Special Attack is pretty low and it can't function as well with only attacks so Assault Vest is only a really viable option when non-Pentagon Pentagon? sets with Sheer Cold are legal.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Electric-types**: They Electric-types hit Suicune super effectively and since Suicune usually doesn't invest in Special Defense and most Electric-types are special attackers, they hit Suicune really hard. Rotom-W resists both Scald and Ice Beam and has a chance to OHKO with Choice Specs Thunderbolt before a Calm Mind. Thundurus and Raikou can use Nasty Plot and Calm Mind to keep up with Suicune's boosts from Calm Mind and manage to muscle past it. Zapdos has to watch out for Ice Beam but can Roost off most damage Suicune does and fire back with Thunderbolts.

**Grass-types**: Breloom hits Suicune really hard with Bullet Seed and can break through sets with Substitute. Serperior gets boosts from Leaf Storm to outpace Calm Mind boosts. Mega Venusaur has Thick Fat so it doesn't take much from Ice Beam, hits super effectively with Giga Drain, (AC) and can stall Suicune out with help from Leech Seed or Sleep Powder.

**Status Absorbers**: Pokemon with Facade such as Mega Salamence and Mega Kangaskhan can surprise Suicune and take advantage of burns from Scald. Mega Heracross easily 2HKOes with Bullet Seed and breaks through sets with Substitute. It can switch into Scald pre-Mega before Mega Evolving and take advantage of potential burns thanks to Guts. Conkeldurr has Guts to benefit from Scald burns and usually has Assault Vest so it takes little from Suicune's attacks. It can also Knock Off Suicune's item which is usually very valuable.

**Calm Mind Users**: Opposing Calm Mind users can potentially beat Suicune in a Calm Mind war. Pokemon with Psyshock, such as Slowbro and Cresselia, (AC) are particularly threatening as they easily beat Suicune because they hit its Defense. Sylveon can use Yawn and muscle past Suicune on the turns it's sleeping, and can also hit through sets with Substitute with Hyper Voice. Raikou is able to hit Suicune super effectively and can use Substitute to its advantage. Other Suicune with Calm Mind can be an issue if your Suicune doesn't have Calm Mind or Roar. However, some of these Pokemon have to be wary of Substitute and Protect sets stalling them out of their moves.

**Strong Special Attackers**: Suicune typically invests in its physical defense so many special attackers are able to 2HKO it. Choice Specs Sylveon and Gardevoir can do a lot of damage to Suicune and hit through Substitute variants with Hyper Voice. Latios and Hydreigon can 2HKO with Draco Meteor even after at -2. Although Calm Mind can help against these Pokemon, Suicune will usually have to Calm Mind before they come in to have a chance to beat them. Mega Charizard Y can 2HKO with Solar Beam and takes little damage from Scald in the sun.

**Trick**: Pokemon such as Rotom-A and Latios can cripple Suicune with a Choice item as it heavily relies on using its status moves.

**Bulky Water-types**: Some bulky Water-types can be a problem for Suicune. Against Azumarill, Suicune needs to rely on getting a Scald burn or Azumarill can easily set up a Belly Drum and OHKO with +6 Play Rough. Slowbro is hard for Suicune to break through and if it's a Calm Mind variant it can beat Suicune in a Calm Mind war with Psyshock. Jellicent can set up Trick Room on Suicune and use Taunt to stop it from using Calm Mind or Rest.

1/2

Great work on this! One problem you have is that sometimes you don't add a transition after commas (like "as"). This is ok if you use a semicolon instead. Other than that, this is a great and informative analysis :)

 

[NOVED]

1/2

Great work on this! One problem you have is that sometimes you don't add a transition after commas (like "as"). This is ok if you use a semicolon instead. Other than that, this is a great and informative analysis :)

Thanks! Implemented all this.

Calm Mind gives Suicune the potential to sweep and a good offensive, this doesn't make sense, what are you trying to say here? it can set up Substitutes and Calm Mind behind them against a lot of defensive Pokemon such as Cresselia and Porygon2.

I meant to write 'offensive presence' instead of just offensive lol. I just added it in, let me know if the sentence needs any changing.

Maximum Speed investment can be run to outrun High speed max Speed or is it not max? If not, then say the Speed number Gliscor

Yeah sorry what I meant was 252 speed gliscor but with a neutral nature instead of jolly. For Speed number did you mean the actual stat or the EVs. Right now I did the stat so it says '147 Speed Gliscor'. If that needs changing let me know.

so Assault Vest is only a really viable option when non-Pentagon Pentagon? sets with Sheer Cold are legal.

Pentagon is when a pokemon is caught/bred in gen 6 it has a blue pentagon. Normally a pokemon has to have a pentagon to be legal but there has been times when they've removed that rule, that's what the sentence is referring to. If there's a better way to describe it i'll change it.

 

[GatoDelFuego]

Say neutral-natured max speed Gliscor, and if Pentagon is a common term then that's fine (as in if your readers will know what it means)

 

[NOVED]

Say neutral-natured max speed Gliscor, and if Pentagon is a common term then that's fine (as in if your readers will know what it means)

cool, thanks. this is ready for the next check now

 

[Lumari]

remove add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)
GP 2/2

check

[OVERVIEW]

Suicune is one of the best Water-types in the format thanks to its great all-around bulk. With its good physical and special defenses, (AC) it can be very difficult to take out for some teams, (AC) and with Pressure, (AC) it can be very effective at stalling other Pokemon out. It's able to check a lot of Pokemon in the metagame such as Garchomp, Mega Kangaskhan, Blaziken, Mega Salamence, and Mamoswine, and many more. It often runs Calm Mind to become more threatening offensively as well and has solid Water- and Ice-type coverage that covers most of the metagame bar other Water-types. Suicune can run a variety of viable sets, including moves that can throw off your opponent's game plan such as Mirror Coat, Icy Wind, and Substitute. It has a decent Speed tier for a defensive Pokemon, outspeeding things foes such as Porygon2, (AC) and Tyranitar, (AC) and, (AC) with some investment, (AC) can outspeed also others such as Rotom-W and Cresselia. However, Suicune's low Special Attack means it needs a few Calm Mind boosts before it can do significant damage. Its only recovery is Rest, which can be somewhat unreliable. If it takes too many hits early on in a match and is forced to use Rest, it is often not as good at dealing with strong threats late-game such as Mega Salamence, Blaziken, and Mega Kangaskhan.

[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Scald
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Rest
item: Chesto Berry
ability: Pressure
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Calm Mind is used to give Suicune a threatening offensive presences presence; Calm Mind makes Suicune harder for Special Attackers to take on and able to potentially sweep teams. Scald is Suicune's best STAB move because of the high chance to burn, which cripples physical attackers and helps break through bulky Pokemon faster. Ice Beam hits common targets such as Garchomp and Mega Salamence and offers nice coverage against some Grass- and Flying-types such as Breloom and Thundurus. Rest gives Suicune recovery and helps to avoid getting Toxic stalled from the likes of Cresselia and Porygon2.

Set Details
========

Maximum HP and Defense investment is used to take on the many common physical attackers in the format that Suicune can handle, such as Blaziken and Garchomp. Suicune doesn't need to invest in Special Defense because Calm Mind takes care of its Special Defense nicely. Chesto Berry is used so Rest can be used as a reliable option for recovery. It is much more consistent than using up a moveslot on Sleep Talk, which takes up Suicune's coverage and makes you risk wasting two turns. Pressure is the only ability available to Suicune, (AC) but it can be very useful to stall out moves, especially ones with only 8 PP.

Usage Tips
========

Suicune should try to get Calm Minds up before special attackers come in. Using Calm Mind allows Suicune to put pressure on the opponent; it can set up on things foes it threatens out, (AC) and thanks to the boosts it can allow it to better take on whatever switches in. Defensive Pokemon such as Cresselia and Hippowdon can easily be used as setup fodder thanks to Rest and Chesto Berry getting rid of any status. Against strong Pokemon such as Mega Salamence and Blaziken, (AC) it is usually be better to attack because they are able to 2HKO Suicune, so setting up Calm Mind could cost you the game. Suicune should be wary of other special attackers that can set up, as it won't (apo) usually be able to beat them, such as Nasty Plot Thundurus and other Calm Mind Pokemon that will usually come out on top.

Team Options
========

Suicune works well with Mega Kangaskhan, as Suicune can set(space)up on defensive Pokemon that Mega Kangaskhan struggles to beat such as Cresselia and Hippowdon. Suicune also beats offensive Pokemon that can threaten Mega Kangaskhan such as Blaziken and Garchomp. Mega Gengar can trap threats to Suicune like bulky Grass-types such as Serperior and Mega Venusaur. Mega Gengar can usually beat defensive Rotom-W with status and Hex; Mega Gengar can also as well as Will-O-Wisp burn Mega Kangaskhan with Will-O-Wisp so Suicune doesn't have to rely on Scald burns, making it much easier for Suicune to deal with. Blaziken likes Suicune as a teammate because Suicune can deal with Ground-types such as Garchomp and Landorus-T. Suicune also handles Mega Salamence decently so Blaziken doesn't need to worry about it. Mamoswine can help Suicune deal with Thundurus and Zapdos. Garchomp appreciates Suicune because it can use Cresselia as setup fodder and handle Mamoswine easily. Taking these Pokemon out can make it much easier for a Choice Scarf or Swords Dance Garchomp to clean up. Talonflame and Mega Salamence can help take out bulky Grass-types for Suicune. Suicne Suicune can also help deal with threats such as Tyranitar and Heatran for Talonflame, and Mamoswine for Mega Salamence. Thundurus can help spread paralysis around so Suicune can outspeed more Pokemon, making it earlier for Suicune to take them out or set up Calm Mind against them. Thundurus can also take out bulky Water-types for Suicune such as as Slowbro, Jellicent, and opposing Suicune. Suicune can also help deal with threats to Thundurus such as Tyranitar and Ground-types like Mamoswine, Excadrill, and Garchomp. Serperior can deal with bulky Water-types and also Breloom thanks to Reflect and Rocky Helmet. Suicune also appreciates the paralysis support from Serperior and helps deal with Pokemon that threaten Serperior such as Blaziken and Talonflame.

[SET]
name: Tank
move 1: Scald
move 2: Ice Beam / Icy Wind
move 3: Rest / Roar
move 4: Roar / Mirror Coat / Toxic / Reflect / Sleep Talk
item: Rocky Helmet
ability: Pressure
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Scald is Suicune's best STAB move, as the high chance to burn is very valuable. Ice Beam hits a lot of common targets such as Garchomp and Mega Salamence and offers nice coverage on Pokemon that resist Water such as Breloom and Serperior. Icy Wind can be used instead, as it still 2HKOs 2HKOes many common Ice-weak Pokemon, (AC) and with some Speed investment, (AC) Suicune can outspeed them the next turn to avoid more damage. Rest gives Suicune some recovery; it ensures Suicune doesn't go down too soon and allows more turns of Rocky Helmet damage to rack up. Roar helps stop setup sweepers such as Swords Dance Garchomp, Dragon Dance Mega Salamence, Calm Mind Suicune, Calm Mind Slowbro, and Quiver Dance Volcarona. Mirror Coat can help Suicune take out some special attackers that would be tough to deal with otherwise such as Rotom-W, Thundurus, and Gengar. Toxic can wear down other defensive Pokemon such as Cresselia and Porygon2. It can also be nice to stack residual damage alongside Rocky Helmet against physical attackers. Reflect lets Suicune beat Mega Kangaskhan and other physical attacker attackers very well. It can also help teammates out if Suicune goes down. Sleep Talk can be used alongside Rest if you want the chance to attack while Suicune is sleeping after Rest.

Set Details
========

Maximum HP and Defense investment is used because this set is used primarily to deal with physical attackers such as Blaziken and Mega Kangaskhan. When you're using Icy Wind, (AC) an alternate spread of 252 HP / 188 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpDef / 60 Spe with a Bold nature can be used; this spread allows Suicune to outspeed Garchomp after a Speed drop while maximizing Suicune's bulk. Rocky Helmet is used mainly for Mega Kangaskhan, as Parental Bond will activate Rocky Helmet twice, but it is also useful for other physical Pokemon that make contact such as Blaziken, Mega Salamence, and Talonflame. It is especially nice against these Pokemon because they often use moves with recoil and they therefore get a ton of residual damage, making it easier for Suicune to finish them off. Pressure is the only ability Suicune has, but it can sometimes be useful to stall out the foe's moves, especially ones with only 8 PP as it will only take four uses for it be stalled out.

Usage Tips
========

This set is used primarily to take on physical attackers; it can tank hits and use Rocky Helmet to put things closer to KO range. Suicune can switch directly into threats such as Mega Kangaskhan and Blaziken, as Rocky Helmet will rack up a lot of damage and can potentially take out Mega Kangaskhan after Double-Edge recoil. But However, (AC) if you need Suicune to survive for the rest of the match, (AC) you should be wary taking these powerful Pokemon on, as Double-Edge from Adamant Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Salamence have the potential to 2HKO. For the most success Suicune should be brought in on a free turn if possible, after a Pokemon faints or via Volt Switch or U-turn. Coming in safely guarantees Suicune can get an attack off on Pokemon that are able to 2HKO it. Roar can be used when you expect your opponent to switch; this shuffles out what will probably be their answer to Suicune coming in. This is especially effective when Stealth Rock is up to get a bit of chip damage. Mirror Coat is most optimal against special attackers that your team struggles with and Suicune might not be able to win against such as defensive Rotom-W and Sylveon. This should usually only be used when Suicune isn't as valuable to you anymore, as it will often have to take a big hit in the process, (AC) which will make Suicune it easy to revenge kill afterwards.

Team Options
========

Suicune works well with offensive teams, as with all the chip damage Suicune is able to get with Rocky Helmet, Toxic, and Scald, (AC) it can wear down teams very nicely for its teammates. Blaziken appreciates Suicune's ability to handle Talonflame and Mega Salamence. Since both these Pokemon often use moves with recoil, (AC) Suicune's Rocky Helmet is able to really hinder them, (AC) and Suicune threatens each of them with super effective attacks. When you're using Roar, a Pokemon with Stealth Rock synergizes very well. Good setters include Garchomp, Mamoswine, and Hippowdon. Focus Sash Garchomp and Mamoswine can also deal with Electric-types such as Thundurus and Raikou. Ferrothorn can also set Stealth Rock and can deal with some Water-types Suicune might struggle with such as Azumarill. Mega Kangaskhan appreciates Suicune's ability to deal with Pokemon such as Blaziken, Mega Salamence, and Garchomp. With faster threatening Pokemon being dealt with, (AC) Mega Kangaskhan has a much easier time. Garchomp appreciates Suicune dealing with Mamoswine and opposing Garchomp. Suicune can also switch into Talonflame, (AC) which could burn Garchomp. If running Toxic, (AC) Suicune can also help deal with Cresselia and Porygon2. Breloom helps deal with Water-types like Rotom-W and Azumarill. Rock Tomb can make it easier for Suicune to take out certain Pokemon such as Thundurus or and Choice Band Dragonite after Breloom goes down. Volcarona likes having Suicune around to deal with Talonflame and Mega Salamence, making it easier for Volcarona to pull of a sweep. Volcarona can also set up on Pokemon Suicune struggles with such as Serperior and Ferrothorn, Lum Berry ensures Volcarona can take a paralysis from either of them as well. Nasty Plot Thundurus can muscle past Rotom-W and opposing Suicune, (AC) which are difficult for Suicune to handle. Thundurus can also spread paralysis around so Suicune's Speed doesn't hinder it as much. In return, (AC) Suicune can also switch into many Thundurus checks such as Mamoswine and Tyranitar. Aegislash can switch into Sylveon, (AC) which hits Suicune really hard. Suicune also deals with some Fire-types such as Heatran and Blaziken for Aegislash. Thundurus-T can be a nice teammate able to switch into Electric-types such as Thundurus for Suicune and also easily take out Water-types that Suicune can't break through, while Suicune deals with Mamoswine and other fast Ground-types that threaten Thundurus-T.

[SET]
name: Fast Substitute
move 1: Scald
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Toxic / Calm Mind
move 4: Protect / Ice Beam
item: Leftovers
ability: Pressure
nature: Timid
evs: 156 HP / 60 Def / 4 SpA / 68 SpD / 220 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Scald is Suicune's best STAB move; it might seem to synergize poorly with Toxic, (AC) but there are some situations against physical attackers where it is better to burn the opposing Pokemon rather than use Toxic badly poison it. Substitute is used to avoid status such as burn and poison while also taking less damage from attacks each turn it's used. Substitute can also be useful to avoid being taken out by OHKO moves from Pokemon such as Mamoswine and Glalie. Toxic can be used to stall Pokemon out, taking advantage of Substitute and Protect to use up as many turns of Toxic as possible. Calm Mind gives Suicune the potential to sweep and a good offensive presence; (SC) it can set up Substitutes and Calm Mind boost behind them against a lot of defensive Pokemon such as Cresselia and Porygon2. Protect synergizes well with Substitute, (AC) as it gives Suicune free turns to get more Leftovers recovery and allows Suicune to make more Substitutes throughout the match. This can also work well with Pressure, as with Substitute and Protect, (AC) Suicune can quickly stall out low-PP moves such as Leaf Storm and Fissure. Protect can also mess with Blaziken running High Jump Kick, as they will take 50% when attacking against Protect. Ice Beam can be used for some coverage, which is especially nice with Calm Mind, as it helps against Mega Salamence (RC) and Serperior (RC) and takes out Garchomp faster.

Set Details
========

The HP investment hits a Leftovers number, giving Suicune more recovery each turn to make more Substitutes. The Speed EVs with a Timid nature lets let Suicune outspeed positive-natured base 80 Speed Pokemon such as Mamoswine. The remaining EVs are spread out between defenses, with more in Special Defense so Porygon2 gets an Attack raise from Download. Alternatively, maximum Speed investment can be run to outrun neutral-natured maximum Speed Gliscor and Speed tie with Modest Hydreigon, sacrificing some EVs in each defense to make room. Contrary to other Suicune sets, this one has less bulk because the main goal is to use Substitute to take attacks most of the time, so more bulk isn't needed. Leftovers is necessary to make more Substitutes. Although Pressure is the only usable ability, it works great with this set to stall out moves with Substitute and Protect. An alternate spread of 244 / 44 Def / 220 Spe with a Bold nature can be used; this spread lets Suicune outspeeds up to maximum Speed base 80s with a neutral nature and focuses more on Suicune's its bulk, allowing it to play more closely to a tank set.

Usage Tips
========

This set does very well against defensive Pokemon and stall teams. It can set up Substitutes on passive Pokemon such as Cresselia and Slowbro, as Substitute will dodge any status they try to use, (AC) and most attacks from them won't be able to break Suicune's Substitute in one turn. Substitute should be used when you're expecting your opponents to switch to get the advantage next turn. Toxic should be used on most defensive Pokemon and Pokemon that you don't need to burn with Scald. When up against a physical attacker such as Mega Kangaskhan and or Garchomp, Scald should be used over Toxic to get a potential burn, (AC) which will be much more useful. Once a Pokemon is badly poisoned Suicune, (AC) should continuously use (alternate?) Substitute and Protect until the Pokemon is in range where Scald is enough to finish it off. When using Calm Mind, (AC) Suicune should try to use Substitute against Pokemon that can't break it, using defensive Pokemon as setup fodder to get as many Calm Minds as possible. Once Suicune gets a couple boosts and is behind a Substitute, (AC) it becomes very difficult to deal with. Against Pokemon with low-PP moves, Substitute and Protect with Pressure can help counter them. This is especially good against Serperior, as it is a common Suicune check and some sets often run Leaf Storm as its their only move. When running Calm Mind, paralysis support can help a lot when trying to set up so Suicune can use Substitute in front of Pokemon that would otherwise outspeed it, and getting Substitute on a full paralysis gives Suicune a huge advantage.

Team Options
========

Physical attackers such as Mega Kangaskhan, Garchomp, Blaziken, and Mega Salamence all appreciate Suicune's ability being able to deal with physical walls such as Cresselia and Slowbro easily with Toxic. Mega Gengar can use the Toxic Suicune inflicts to do more damage with Hex. It can also trap threats to Suicune such as Sylveon. Thundurus helps deal with opposing Suicune, as Rest variants can be a hard Pokemon for Toxic Suicune to deal with. It also provides paralysis support for sets with Calm Mind, as Suicune can set up Substitutes on the slowed Pokemon and really take advantage of free turns from full paralyzes paralyses. Suicune also deals with Mamoswine for Thundurus. Bulky Serperior can help deal with Ferrothorn and Breloom; Breloom is especially threatening to Suicune because it very often runs Bullet Seed, (AC) which will break through Suicune's Substitutes. Serperior can also use Glare to support Calm Mind in setting up. Mega Salamence works well with Suicune, as it can deal with Mega Venusaur and Breloom, and Suicune can deal with Mamoswine, Cresselia, and Porygon2 for Salamence. Mamoswine really appreciates Cresselia and Porygon2 being badly poisoned and can deal with Thundurus for Suicune. Cresselia can work on teams with this Suicune, as without high Defense investment, (AC) it becomes harder for Suicune to deal with threats such as Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Salamence. Cresselia can also offer paralysis support for Calm Mind sets and use Lunar Dance to bring Suicune back to full health if it gets too low after using Substitute so many times. In return, Suicune does well against other defensive Pokemon like Porygon2, which Cresselia also has trouble doing much damage to other defensive Pokemon like Porygon2 and Suicune does well against them. (repetitive sentence structure) When you're running Toxic, other teammates with Substitute can also take advantage of Toxic such as Mega Salamence with Substitute and Roost (RC) and Gliscor with Poison Heal. Landorus-T appreciates Cresselia being badly poisoned (RC) and can U-turn when it expects Cresselia to come in to allow Suicune to come in for free so Suicune doesn't have to risk switching into Toxic from Cresselia.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Sitrus Berry is a decent item for some recovery; (SC) it works well with Mirror Coat so Suicune doesn't have to lose as much HP when taking a hit from something like Rotom-W or Thundurus. Surf can be used on sets with Toxic, since you won't always want to burn the opposing Pokemon, but there are some scenarios where you would still want Scald burns on Pokemon such as Mega Kangaskhan and Garchomp, (AC) so Scald is usually preferred. Snarl can be really annoying for some special attackers, but the opponent can just switch out to remove the drops, (AC) so just using Calm Mind to raise Suicune's Special Defense is usually better. Assault Vest can make use out of Mirror Coat and surprise some opponents by letting Suicune take strong Electric-type attacks such as Choice Specs-boosted Thunderbolt from Rotom-W and Thundurus-T, and it can also help Suicune take on many other special attackers with the Special Defense boost. However, Suicune's Special Attack is pretty low and it can't function as well with only attacks, (AC) so Assault Vest is only a really viable option when non-Pentagon sets with Sheer Cold are legal.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Electric-types**: Electric-types hit Suicune super effectively, (AC) and since Suicune usually doesn't invest in Special Defense and most Electric-types are special attackers, they hit Suicune really hard. Rotom-W resists both Scald and Ice Beam and has a chance to OHKO Suicune with Choice Specs-boosted Thunderbolt before a Calm Mind. Thundurus and Raikou can use Nasty Plot and Calm Mind to keep up with Suicune's boosts from Calm Mind and manage to muscle past it. Zapdos has to watch out for Ice Beam but can Roost off most damage Suicune does and fire back with Thunderbolts.

**Grass-types**: Breloom hits Suicune really hard with Bullet Seed and can break through sets with Substitute. Serperior gets boosts from Leaf Storm to outpace Calm Mind boosts. Mega Venusaur has Thick Fat so it doesn't take much from Ice Beam, hits super effectively with Giga Drain, and can stall Suicune out with help from Leech Seed or Sleep Powder.

**Status Absorbers**: Pokemon with Facade such as Mega Salamence and Mega Kangaskhan can surprise Suicune and take advantage of burns from Scald. Mega Heracross easily 2HKOes with Bullet Seed and breaks through sets with Substitute. It can switch into Scald before Mega Evolving and take advantage of potential burns thanks to Guts. Conkeldurr has Guts to benefit from Scald burns and usually has Assault Vest, (AC) so it takes little from Suicune's attacks. It can also Knock Off Suicune's item, (AC) which is usually very valuable.

**Calm Mind Users**: Opposing Calm Mind users can potentially beat Suicune in a Calm Mind war. Pokemon with Psyshock, such as Slowbro and Cresselia, are particularly threatening, (AC) as they easily beat Suicune because they hit its Defense. Sylveon can use Yawn and muscle past Suicune on the turns it's sleeping, and it can also hit through sets with Substitute with Hyper Voice. Raikou is able to hit Suicune super effectively and can use Substitute to its advantage. Other Suicune with Calm Mind can be an issue if your Suicune doesn't have Calm Mind or Roar. However, some of these Pokemon have to be wary of Substitute and Protect sets (Substitute sets and Protect sets, or Substitute + Protect sets? if it's the latter change "and" to a plus sign) stalling them out of their moves.

**Strong Special Attackers**: Suicune typically invests in its physical Defense, (AC) so many special attackers are able to 2HKO it. Choice Specs Sylveon and Gardevoir can do a lot of damage to Suicune and hit through Substitute variants with Hyper Voice. Latios and Hydreigon can 2HKO with Draco Meteor even at -2. Although Calm Mind can help against these Pokemon, Suicune will usually have to set up Calm Mind before they come in to have a chance to beat them. Mega Charizard Y can 2HKO Suicune with Solar Beam and takes little damage from Scald in the sun.

**Trick**: Pokemon such as Rotom-A and Latios can cripple Suicune with a Choice item, (AC) as it heavily relies on using its status moves.

**Bulky Water-types**: Some bulky Water-types can be a problem for Suicune. Against Azumarill, Suicune needs to rely on getting a Scald burn, (AC) or Azumarill can easily set up a Belly Drum and OHKO with +6 Play Rough. Slowbro is hard for Suicune to break through, (AC) and if it's a Calm Mind variant it can beat Suicune in a Calm Mind war with Psyshock. Jellicent can set up Trick Room on Suicune and use Taunt to stop it from using Calm Mind or Rest.

 

[NOVED]

alright, this is ready to be uploaded

Hulavuta cant say

 

[Hulavuta]

This is uploaded, good work.