Sticky Sun/Moon Sprite Project: Dawn of a New Day

leparagon

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#51
jams
View attachment 67124
Lunala is roughly 96x94 if I recall correctly, posting this here to get critique for improvements b/c I feel some things are probably off but I've been staring at this guy for so long my eyes are weird. Total colors currently are at 14 leaving one spare in case I need to split the white for the shiny.

uh comments:
The Cynical Poet currently the black outlines on ANinetales stand out very harshly to the point where the two that are there look odd on the backsprite's tail. I'd either add more in, remove them altogether or possibly add in another transition color between the outline shade and black. Aside from that, hard to tell if the tail positioning is correct or not without knowing the actual backsprite but using actual Ninetales for reference could probably help with the placement.

princessofmusic very minor but Pikipek's tail on the backsprite is very flat on the top and stands out as a result. Maybe look into ways of rounding it out a bit? Otherwise looks good.

Wobblebuns quick Lurantis note, we should probably be able to see its left face protrusion (mandible? mouth antenna? weird mustache?) coming from behind the head on the backsprite. Other than that, not noticing it as much now but when I was viewing it on my phone the all-black outlines of the blades stood out to me on the front and could possibly benefit from an outline shade. Great quick work though and I love the result!

Going afk for a bit to render a final sub for my CAP 22 design before the art thread closes, will be back again after.
i'm digging the pose! but i think the violet hues you used are a bit too vibrant? maybe a bit less saturation would look better. also, i think the gold areas would look better if instead of using yellow hues, it was a little bit of yellowish green with low saturation. and maybe you could move the chest around a bit so the head has more space for details. i notice a lot of Lunala sprites have trouble with the mouth due to lack of such space. other than that, it looks awesome :)
 
#53
really sorry for the double post, but i just noticed your Solgaleo sprite now. it looks nice, but it's way too small :o i think it'd be more appropriate if it were around this size: View attachment 67116 or maybe like the Solgaleo sprite fishbowl posted
BIGGER FAIYAH LAIYIN


The newest sprite is about as big as Reshiram's now. Doesn't look as "disproportionate" as I thought it would be. What do you guys think though?


Also made edits with Lurantis according to aXl's and pom's comments.


I don't know how the arm should look in relation with the position of the claw, huhu. (back sprite)

- - -

size is much better now! but just a couple tiny details that i noticed just now upon zooming in. for the edge of his face, extend it by one pixel to the left. the yellow blade thing near his mouth is actually supposed to be a bit sharper, (still about the mouth) is it supposed to look slightly open? because the part where the yellow blade meets its mouth seems to have a dark area.
also for the hind leg, it's getting covered by the dark belly. that's it for now xD
Thank you for the suggestions! Just a quick note, the mouth is supposed to be closed. The shaded area is based on what I saw from here:


 
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#54
Giant feedback post time. I've spoken up about size in spriting before, and others have observed in the past that spriters have the tendency to create sprites that are too big.

Consider these six words:

Pokémon sprites are NOT to scale.

Let's assume that the average height of a BW trainer sprite is 70 pixels and that the height of the average adult is 5'6". Therefore, 70 pixels = 5'6". At this scale, any four-inch-tall Pokémon would be less than five pixels tall and barely visible, while Wailord would take up anywhere from two to four DS screens depending on whether it's measured by length or height.

In essence, Pokémon sprites have both a minimum and maximum size. Among BW sprites, the tiniest is probably Togepi at 24 x 28, but there are only a handful of other sprites that small. At the opposite end of the continuum, the largest BW sprite taking into account height and width dimensions (excluding Black and White Kyurem) is Zekrom, at 95 x 91 pixels. Other contenders include Reshiram, Lugia, and Kyogre, which all are wide but not as tall. Ho-oh? Groudon? Rayquaza? Giratina? Each of those guys is less than 90 pixels square.

For the sprite project, this means two things:
  1. Few BW-style sprites should be smaller than roughly 35 to 40 pixels square unless they're absolutely tiny and basic in design.
  2. Likewise, even though the maximum size of the canvas is 96 x 96, few BW-style sprites should be larger than 85 x 85 unless they're Olympus Mons or otherwise very large and detailed.
Another factor that influences sprite size is the level of detail in the design. Pokémon with simple designs and round body shapes such as Gengar and Blissey tend to be drawn relatively small for their height. More detailed mons have to be larger in order to be readable and because their sprites contain more negative space. Some sprites from the XY Sprite Project are close to 96 x 96, but the ones that are have features such as long bodies and broad wingspans that necessitate taking up most of the canvas.

One way to double-check your sizes is to download a spreadsheet with all of the BW front sprites on it (like this one from veekun). When in doubt, copy your custom sprite and paste it somewhere among the official sprites for comparison. Lastly, keep in mind that some mons are measured by wingspan or body length rather than height.

Here's an example from this thread:

mudsdale.png


Mudsdale looks huge compared to existing horse mons Rapidash and Zebstrika. "But Mudsdale is eight feet tall!!" you say. Yes, but Mudsdale is still humongous compared to other mons that are actually eight feet tall, such as Lapras and Scolipede. As Mudsdale's design isn't too detailed, it probably could shrink by another 10 percent or so, making it roughly 70 pixels tall.

leparagon Bewear seems a bit fat compared to its official art and in-game model. Considering the simplicity of its design, you probably could get away with decreasing its size slightly. I like the style, though. Don't forget the back sprite.

The Cynical Poet aXl mentioned this already, but the paleness of Ninetale's outlines makes it look less like BW style and more like one of those sprites from Dragon Cave or w/e. The palette contains too many light blue tones, whereas I doubt you'd need more than six in total for it to look nice. The main body on the back sprite is also highly disproportionate. If it helps, try using the HGSS front sprite as a basis, as it's smaller than the BW one.

aXl A 90 to 95 percent smaller Lunala seems like it would be enough to show off its design without being colossal, since there are some legendaries much larger than Lunala with smaller BW sprites. I also second leparagon's comment about shrinking the chest to allow more room for face details.
 

HeaLnDeaL

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#55
Went and shrunk the legs like I said I was toying with in my first post, as well as cut a few pixels here and there to match the shorter legs. Still a WIP, but I figured I'd repost now that the size issue is apparent. Here, to shave an extra pixel or two, the front leg closest to the viewer was posed to look like it is being just barely lifted above the ground, but I'm not sure how successful I was at achieving it. Still some jagged pixels here and there that I'll try to fix by the time I post my backsprite.

 
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leparagon

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#56
BIGGER FAIYAH LAIYIN


The newest sprite is about as big as Reshiram's now. Doesn't look as "disproportionate" as I thought it would be. What do you guys think though?


Also made edits with Lurantis according to aXl's and pom's comments.


I don't know how the arm should look in relation with the position of the claw, huhu. (back sprite)
size is much better now! but just a couple tiny details that i noticed just now upon zooming in. for the edge of his face, extend it by one pixel to the left. the yellow blade thing near his mouth is actually supposed to be a bit sharper, (still about the mouth) is it supposed to look slightly open? because the part where the yellow blade meets its mouth seems to have a dark area.
also for the hind leg, it's getting covered by the dark belly. like notice how the hindleg curves into the belly - the belly causes a sort of break for the outline of the hindleg. not sure how to articulate that properly, sorry! that's it for now xD

for Lunatris though, the front sprite's left claw (on our right) has outlines that kinda blend a bit into the tail. try to give it a black outline. you don't always have to use a black outline only for shaded areas. sometimes you can bend that rule when body parts have lines that blend a bit together

HeaLnDeaL when princess was talking about the size issue, i don't think she meant simply cutting out some parts of the body. it's the proportions in general. notice how Mudsdale's face is kinda too wide for its body now that you shrunk the body a bit, right? also how it's a bit too long (head to tail)

princessofmusic i actually used a screenshot from the gameplay trailer
bewear ref.png
so initially wasnt sure what you meant by too chubby, so i was thinking maybe it's the amount of belly i shaded plus me inflating the arms a bit. anyway, yeah. shrunk it, changed the aforementioned stuff, and added backsprite (i was going to anyway, no worries! :D)
bewear.png


noticed your Bounsweet sprite too. prolly best one i've seen, but it's actually supposed to be around the size of Togepi and Igglybuff and stuff like that

Sunfished i'd say your Bruxish is a bit small. something like this:
bruxish.png
it's around this size based on the trailers i've seen. plus that way you have more space to fix the teeth (you kinda made the mouth and teeth take up most of its face) and space to make all of its fins look smoother. also the yellow kinda hurts the eyes, maybe try a lower saturated yellow (and make the yellow shade a bit darker too since the shade you used was a bit hard to see right away) other than that, great work!

also smogon peeps, i'm calling dibs on Alolan Vulpix, Meowth and Marowak too (already called dibs on Raichu as well). plus Yungoos (am i allowed to call dibs on that many?)
alolan marowak.png
alola vulpix.png
mewoth.png
yungoos.png
(Yungoos is a bit big but i'm gonna fix that tomorrow)
backsprites coming soon
 
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Layell

Alas poor Yorick!
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#57
also smogon peeps, i'm calling dibs on Alolan Vulpix, Meowth and Marowak too (already called dibs on Raichu as well). plus Yungoos (am i allowed to call dibs on that many?)
View attachment 67235 View attachment 67236 View attachment 67238 View attachment 67239 (Yungoos is a bit big but i'm gonna fix that tomorrow)
backsprites coming soon


to a degree

I'll put you in the comments that you are interested, but I'll keep your reservation on Raichu. I know you work fast so I'm sure you'll get through them soon anyways.

also here is a post from resident expert on cute things pom:
 
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#58
Since more than one person has pointed out Bounsweet's size, I'll try to explain my reasoning behind it:

I started working on Bounsweet after browsing dA for precedents and felt that most people exaggerated how small it was. In real life, one foot is pretty big; if I put an object that was one cubic foot in volume on my desk, it would take up quite a lot of room.

lc-sizes.png

above: mangosteen and friends

Quick thoughts:
  • Stuff like Cleffa and Igglybuff are extra small most likely because they're baby Pokémon
  • The 1'00" height group also extends to mons like Drilbur that are drawn much larger and "cute" legendaries like Victini
Considering that Joltik's sprite is bigger than Togepi's and there are many more weird examples like that one, it's safe to say that the BW sprites aren't very consistent and that Game Freak just does whatever it feels like.
 
#59
Okay, now this has to be said because otherwise you'd just notice it later and will probably change this anyway:

I don't really get why you'd tell leparagon (great sprites btw!) to shrink his Bewear sprite. The previous one was about the right size.

I know, I know - not true to real scale, etc., but that doesn't mean super big Pokemon will be shown as really small ones.

As a matter of fact Bewear is 2.1 meters tall (6'11"). It is, as of Gen 6, the 46th tallest Pokemon (tied with some others) in the series. Not counting Megas, but pre-evolutions and different formes.

It is bigger than some legends (e.g. Mewtwo), and mostly big legends and serpent-like Pokemon are bigger, yet here it is displayed as small as stuff like Blissey and Quagsire. Pretty much all of the Pokemon taller than it are displayed quite a bit bigger than this Bewear now, and a huge amount of smaller ones are as big if not much bigger, as well.

Here's a list of Pokemon bigger than Bewear if anyone might care:
Bigger than Bewear (2.1 m):

Gen 1:

Onix: 8.8 m (serpent)
Gyarados: 6.5 m (serpent)
Dragonair: 4 m (serpent)
Arbok: 3.5 m (serpent)
Lapras: 2.5 m
Kangaskhan: 2.2 m
Dragonite: 2.2 m

same size: Snorlax

Gen 2:

Steelix: 9.2 m (serpent)
Lugia: 5.2 m (legend)
Ho-Oh: 3.8 m (legend)
Feraligatr: 2.3 m

same size: Entei (legend)

Gen 3:

Wailord: 14.5 m
Rayquaza: 7 m (serpent)
Milotic: 6.2 m (serpent)
Kyogre: 4.5 m (legend)
Groudon: 3.5 m (legend)
Seviper: 2.7 m (serpent)
Hariyama: 2.3 m

same size: Aggron

Gen 4:

Giratina (Origin): 6.9 m (serpent/legend)
Dialga: 5.4 m (legend)
Giratina (Altered): 4.5 m (legend)
Palkia: 4.2 m (legend)
Regigigas: 3.7 m (legend)
Arceus: 3.2 m (legend)
Mamoswine: 2.5 m
Rhyperior: 2.4 m
Torterra: 2.2 m
Abomasnow: 2.2 m
Dusknoir: 2.2 m

Gen 5:

White Kyurem: 3.6 m (legend)
Black Kyurem: 3.3 m (legend)
Serperior: 3.3 m (serpent)
Reshiram: 3.2 m (legend)
Kyurem: 3.0 m (legend)
Thundurus-T: 3.0 m (legend)
Zekrom: 2.9 m (legend)
Golurk: 2.8 m
Scolipede: 2.5 m ("serpent")
Jellicent: 2.2 m

same size: Eelektross (serpent)
same size: Cobalion (legend)

Gen 6:

Hoopa-Unbound: 6.5 m (legend)
Yveltal: 5.8 m (legend)
Zygarde: 5 m (serpent/legend)
Xerneas: 3 m (legend)
Aurorus: 2.7 m
Tyrantrum: 2.5 m

same size: Pangoro


Also, leparagon, if I may suggest: I (probably) know why you used such a dark pink for it, the real image uses these colors as well, but if you'd change the brightest pink tone to the one fishbowlsoul uses, it will look much better and colorful (imo). Sprites often use brighter colors so it's not like this would be the only occasion (you likely know this anyway, but just saying).

Here's an example (leparagons Bewear sprites):


Hope no one minds this post. Just trying to help, though I know Layell and PoM try to run things their ways, but I felt like it had to be brought to attention. This Pokemon is huge.
 
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Layell

Alas poor Yorick!
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#60
If anything I think Bewear is a bit pudgier than taller, he could either stand to be shurnk slightly horizontally, or a bit taller. It would be a small change but might make it look for the best. Bewear is the same size as Snorlax so that should influence our idea of design and scale.

I am going off of the art here: http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/thumb/0/04/Bewear.png/250px-Bewear.png

Also at the moment PoM isn't a leader for this sprite project, but she loves to help either way.
 
Likes: Mq
#61
I didn't say, "this thing is huuuuge and you should shrink it by 50 percent!!" My suggestion to leparagon was for it to be reduced in width slightly and not necessarily in height, as its head and arms were big, but perhaps my language was still confusing. Bewear is also one of those mons with a round body shape and simple design, so there's some leeway in terms of how big it can be.

I feel extremely frustrated. When Layell makes a comment or decision, he is respected--because he's male or he has a fancy banner running across his postbit which makes him seem authoritative. Whether I've acted in a leadership capacity or as just another spriter out of good will, I've been protested and misinterpreted many times--because I'm a young woman (so I can't have a legitimate reason to be concerned or angry) or the way I speak is logical and direct and that rubs people the wrong way. I've been coping with major depression and trying to get an autism spectrum diagnosis for a long while, so if I sound serious, I guarantee it isn't personal, but life is harder when you have mental illness. This has happened before in the last sprite project, and I don't want to hurt anyone, so if my presence is just going to cause more trouble, I'm prepared to quit contributing for good.
 

aXl

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#62
Lunala pair v2.png

top left: new, bottom left: old, right: new x2 magnification for easier crits

Played with the gold and the head a bit to fix it up as per leparagon 's advice and I think it looks a bit better now. Not sure if resizing is particularly necessary, as I was comparing it to Zekrom and Reshiram which have similar sprite sizes while still being like 4 feet shorter than Lunala. I think part of the issue with the other legendaries that are about the same size (palkia, dialga, etc) is just that Game Freak decided to cut corners by importing the Gen 4 sprites as a base. If you guys still want me to resize it, I'll get around to it after finishing my other art stuff for CAP and Facebook. Just don't have the time to do a sweeping resize atm.
 
#63
I didn't say, "this thing is huuuuge and you should shrink it by 50 percent!!" My suggestion to leparagon was for it to be reduced in width slightly and not necessarily in height, as its head and arms were big, but perhaps my language was still confusing. Bewear is also one of those mons with a round body shape and simple design, so there's some leeway in terms of how big it can be.

I feel extremely frustrated. When Layell makes a comment or decision, he is respected--because he's male or he has a fancy banner running across his postbit which makes him seem authoritative. Whether I've acted in a leadership capacity or as just another spriter out of good will, I've been protested and misinterpreted many times--because I'm a young woman (so I can't have a legitimate reason to be concerned or angry) or the way I speak is logical and direct and that rubs people the wrong way. I've been coping with major depression and trying to get an autism spectrum diagnosis for a long while, so if I sound serious, I guarantee it isn't personal, but life is harder when you have mental illness. This has happened before in the last sprite project, and I don't want to hurt anyone, so if my presence is just going to cause more trouble, I'm prepared to quit contributing for good.
Hey Princess, while I definitely cannot speak for everyone, I can assure you that I myself do not consider you any less of a contributor simply because of your sex/gender or what sort of authority you have on Smogon. While everyone may have differences of opinion (especially on a topic as subjective as art), I've always valued the perspective and critiques of others - your comments, along with Layell's and everyone else have helped others to improve their work and think of things in a different light. Leadership roles can always be a tricky thing - whether you're a leader of a project or just taking a step out there to offer your own advice, and while some people may not agree with every decision made by either you, Layell, or the project in general over the years, I don't think that most people are taking it out on you over you not being a male.

But then again, I've never lived my life as a female, and will never personally know or feel the societal pressures and setbacks that being a female would bring. You might be onto something with direct languages and tones; especially in an online setting where tone is heavily interpreted by the presence of emotion or lack thereof. Criticism, especially if it's lengthy or maybe is directed towards something that a person feels is of personal worth to them, can almost always result in fiery language and disagreements.

I really hope that you find a way to defeat the depression you're suffering through - I personally have felt pretty serious depression in the past, and it has only been recently that I've found solace within my current state in life. I also hope that whatever diagnosis you are given for autism spectrum disorder goes over well - as someone who is currently going into the field of education, I've learned a decent chunk about autism in general. So whatever diagnosis may be handed to you - know that autism isn't simply some disease that others might view it as, but almost as if it's an entirely separate view of life within the brain. You've got my full support, not just as a spriter, but as a friend, that I hope you overcome any and all obstacles that stand in your way. I definitely encourage you not to leave the S/M or X/Y projects, as you're an excellent spriter and give helpful advice where it's needed.
 
#64
I didn't say, "this thing is huuuuge and you should shrink it by 50 percent!!" My suggestion to leparagon was for it to be reduced in width slightly and not necessarily in height, as its head and arms were big, but perhaps my language was still confusing. Bewear is also one of those mons with a round body shape and simple design, so there's some leeway in terms of how big it can be.

I feel extremely frustrated. When Layell makes a comment or decision, he is respected--because he's male or he has a fancy banner running across his postbit which makes him seem authoritative. Whether I've acted in a leadership capacity or as just another spriter out of good will, I've been protested and misinterpreted many times--because I'm a young woman (so I can't have a legitimate reason to be concerned or angry) or the way I speak is logical and direct and that rubs people the wrong way. I've been coping with major depression and trying to get an autism spectrum diagnosis for a long while, so if I sound serious, I guarantee it isn't personal, but life is harder when you have mental illness. This has happened before in the last sprite project, and I don't want to hurt anyone, so if my presence is just going to cause more trouble, I'm prepared to quit contributing for good.
I'm sorry if my post made you feel that way, that definitely wasn't my intention and I can assure you that gender had nothing to do with it. I just wanted to bring to attention that shrinking it down doesn't really show how it really is in terms of tallness (and had too much time to write all that stuff - just wanted to explain myself). You're right about it looking a bit round with the arms and to the sides. I definitely respect you (and your work, which is amazing too).
 
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leparagon

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#65
I didn't say, "this thing is huuuuge and you should shrink it by 50 percent!!" My suggestion to leparagon was for it to be reduced in width slightly and not necessarily in height, as its head and arms were big, but perhaps my language was still confusing. Bewear is also one of those mons with a round body shape and simple design, so there's some leeway in terms of how big it can be.

I feel extremely frustrated. When Layell makes a comment or decision, he is respected--because he's male or he has a fancy banner running across his postbit which makes him seem authoritative. Whether I've acted in a leadership capacity or as just another spriter out of good will, I've been protested and misinterpreted many times--because I'm a young woman (so I can't have a legitimate reason to be concerned or angry) or the way I speak is logical and direct and that rubs people the wrong way. I've been coping with major depression and trying to get an autism spectrum diagnosis for a long while, so if I sound serious, I guarantee it isn't personal, but life is harder when you have mental illness. This has happened before in the last sprite project, and I don't want to hurt anyone, so if my presence is just going to cause more trouble, I'm prepared to quit contributing for good.
hey princess :( sorry to hear that. it's cool how strong you are about this. i understand how tough it can be. i'm new here, so i haven't been able to see all of the posts from the other projects yet, but i assure you whatever happened back then, we can assuage that for you now. i'm hoping i didn't make you feel misconstrued because you were female. i just wasn't sure what proportions to resize since you didn't specify whether i shrink it down horizontally or vertically, that's all :) and i may be new here, but i assure you that your feedback is valued by many. i know i do! i don't think you sound harsh either; articulation is a pleasant thing.
so i'm hoping for your critique again, but with the slightly smaller Bewear sprite i have now (which i didn't decrease that much tbh), should i make it a bit thinner? or taller? also about the Bounsweet sprite, yeah i know what you're saying xD i agree with you. just that i initially got a baby Poke vibe from it even though i know it's not a baby Poke xD

aXl yeah man, looks much better now! but now i noticed the glowing chest part. instead of pillow shading the light blue with a thick ring of darker blue, maybe just antialias it? usually glows need to look smoother. also instead of that color, maybe use a color that's in the dead center of cyan and dark blue (do we call that indigo here?) then get like mid-saturation (i'm using a paint color section, not checking the color pickers of other programs right now, sorry xD) the size really isn't an issue btw. it's the mouth, cuz it looks like it's smiling imo. that was what i meant with most other sprites having trouble with the mouth xD but yeah man, no need to resize

Luigi player , yeah i'm feeling that shade of pink more. and i don't really get from the game models or anything xD i just eye the color and then i work with it. sorry 'bout that. i sprited Bewear after working on a ton of fighting game sprites and some fakemon for people @_@ my eyes were strained as heck
 

leparagon

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#67
From my regular DA hunting I've added to the chart sprites from TrainerSplash and Noscium, you can check them out on the chart, I hope this helps us all focus on the mons we want to get done : )

By the way this is the second anniversary for princessofmusic and I, she is now enjoying a lovely music note necklace : )
yeah, Noscium decided to come back and work on Sun Moon stuff :))

and congrats on the anniversary! :D enjoy your day, you two!
 
#68
Is it a bunny rabbit?



Is it a MapleStory mob?



Is it... Benedict Cucumber?!



No... it's Pyukumuku!!


pyukumuku.png


Although it's just an oval with horns and a cotton tail, cutecumber gave me more difficulty than I thought it would, especially the back sprite and shading. Hopefully, it's just about complete.

Thanks for taking the time to say all that you did, Cynical. You are clearly someone who gets it.

I may have taken things too personally yesterday and didn't mean to make a big fuss. I needed to walk away for a while and process things. Since I've ended up receiving so many kind comments, I guess I'm not leaving :p

I'll post about Bewear and other things later.
 
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aXl

they love your throat and (quote, unquote) you
is an Artist
#70
jams

Update for Backsprite. Not sure if gold tail line exists on backsprite but everything else exists as evidenced from second trailer pan-around shot. Also, Lunala's fingers are infinitely better now because that's what he actually does in-game and its awesome.

Going to call Alolan Sandslash as next pokemon, might have time to do the front this weekend but expect updates to be more sporadic here on out due to college beginning Monday.
 

leparagon

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#73
May I suggest trying to make the top of its head more visible? It's a pretty distinctive trait, after all, though I realize the weird angle doesn't help.
gotcha, will work on it tomorrow :D but what if we add that as a frame for future animation? instead of just replacing this sprite's head all together

aXl good luck with college, dude! it can be tough sometimes, but it's super fun and you get to meet a lot of new people! :D also, great work on the backsprite. I fav'd it on DA. I think the gold tail does extend to the back. plus ive seen someone else put the gold at the back of their sprite too, so thats a good sign
 
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