Battle Stadium Super Bird Bros. : Tapu-Koko + Blaziken Team

:ss/blaziken: :ss/tapu-koko: :ss/glastrier: :ss/tapu-fini: :ss/zapdos: :ss/garchomp:

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Super Bird Bros. Peak.jpg

This is the team that finally broke me into sub-1000 ranks on Battle Stadium Singles. This has probably been the team that I have learned more with than any others before and I'm pretty excited to share it. Despite a end-of-season push, I actually ended up plateauing in the 1000-2000 range; I wasn't able to maintain that peak but I do think it shows in some capacity the strength and potential that could still be tapped with some restructuring of the team. That isn't to say the team is bad, of course!

As usual I want to share my takeaways of what went right and what went wrong, so off we go.

Team Overview

:blaziken:
Blaziken @ Life Orb
Level: 50
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Thunder Punch
- Swords Dance

The primary wincon of the team on which the team is centered. Can win either by Swords Dancing under screens or on predicted switches, as well as by immediately maxxing and using Knuckle + Flare to turn Flare Blitz into a nuke move; sun-boosted Flare Blitz can out-damage neutral coverage Thunder Punch even when resisted. Despite this, Thunder Punch is a critical coverage move specifically chosen over Earthquake to hit the likes of Urshifu-R and Tapu Fini when maxxed.

A standard 252/252 Atk/Spe spread is used here, with 4 SpD EV’s used to trigger an Attack Download for P2.

:tapu-koko:
Tapu Koko @ Light Clay
Level: 50
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 228 HP / 84 SpD / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Nature's Madness
- Reflect
- Light Screen

The screen setter and one of the team’s primary leads. Helps Blaziken and Tapu Fini set up, though bulky Glastrier can absolutely benefit as well. Unlike other screen setters though, it provides important sleep protection with Electric Surge, can rack up respectable damage with Nature’s Madness and pivot with Volt Switch. The overall flexibility granted by its speed tier and Nature’s Madness can make it quite the wild card both in the early game and middle of a match.

The spread is a variation on the 252/252 HP/Spe spread for the standard Dual Screens set. SpD investment is made to trigger an Attack Download by P2, while still allowing Koko to avoid a 2HKO from Hippowdown and Swampert Earthquake after a Reflect. 196 Spe puts us at +2 on Timid Naganadel, outrunning both it and bulky Dragapult sets that EV to be +1 on Naganadel themselves.

:glastrier:
Glastrier @ Custap Berry
Level: 50
Ability: Chilling Neigh
EVs: 164 HP / 252 Atk / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Close Combat
- Heavy Slam
- Endure

The primary bulky attacker of the team whose Endure-Custap combo allows it to harass more offensive-oriented teams. Its most important role on the team is to check/counter Dragon-types and Landorus-T especially for the Blaziken-Koko core, and it appreciates the screens set up by Koko. It certainly is no slouch in Dynamax either and functions as a secondary wincon; however, without Weakness Policy/Swords Dance it doesn’t have consistent setup opportunities, so it is important to scope out opposing threats that can abuse unboosted Glastrier.

The standard 252/252 HP/Atk spread was foregone here to shift some into speed. At 92 Spd investment, Glastrier outruns 4 Spd Rhyperior. Sadly, I don’t think this has come into play once, but despite the loss in bulk Glastrier still maintains highly favorable rolls against things like Urshifu Close Combat:

252 Atk Urshifu Close Combat vs. 164 HP / 0 Def Glastrier: 168-198 (85.7 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

:tapu-fini:
Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Level: 50
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 92 Def / 164 Spe
Bold Nature
- Surf
- Moonblast
- Taunt
- Calm Mind

Fini’s primary role on the team is to help stabilize the main core’s weakness to bulky Ground-types like Rhyperior and Landorus-T as well as checking offensive water types such as Urshifu-R and Dracovish. Of course, as a standard Calm Mind set, Fini can function as the target wincon in certain situations. Fini can do a lot but it doesn’t always have to, and figuring out when and how to use it on this particular team has been something of a process.

The EV spread and item choice are similar to the standard Calm Mind spread with just a single point uptick in speed to help beat opposing Fini in Taunt wars.

:zapdos:
Zapdos @ Kee Berry
Level: 50
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 220 HP / 220 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 60 Spe
Bold Nature
- Discharge
- Hurricane
- Eerie Impulse
- Roost

The dedicated defensive cushion and main option against suspected Turn 1 Dynamax teams. The secret sauce of this set is targeted at the team’s aversion to physical Dragapult: assuming something like lead Koko held out for two turns against Dragapult, Zapdos can use Kee + Roost to counteract Max Phantasm on the final turn of Dynamax, at which point unboosted Dragapult is very unlikely to break Zapdos. Overall, Zapdos uses its status hax and Eerie Impulse to wear down threats or maneuver in the main sweeper. Of course, Zapdos can also Dynamax sweep itself if hard counters like SpD P2 are eliminated or simply absent. All things considered, I'm not sure this set has worked out as well as I'd hoped, but I think this variation has seen more success than the previous ones I've used.

The EV spread is a modification of the defensive Zapdos spread of 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spd. By redistributing to hit 220 Def, the damage numbers on Dragon Darts take a significant hit and drastically improve the matchup:

252 Atk Life Orb Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 220 HP / 220+ Def Zapdos: 86-104 (44.5 - 53.8%) -- approx. 20.3% chance to 2HKO

Keeping the 60 Spd EVs as is was prioritized, since being able to outspeed Timid Naganadel after an Airstream is another valuable asset for this team.

:garchomp:
Garchomp @ Focus Sash
Level: 50
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 228 Atk / 28 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 16 Def
- Scale Shot
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb
- Stealth Rock

The rock setter of the team and a very respectable combatant in its own right. Rocks were wanted on this team for obvious Sash-breaking reasons, but Garchomp was specifically chosen over other candidates because of its less passive nature combined with a desirable defensive typing (many offensive rockers are weak to Ground-type moves and I didn’t want to have a third Ground weakness on the team.) Much like Koko, it has multiple tools via its raw offensive prowess and speed control. It’s Sash allows it to surprise key threats like Dracovish.

The Defensive IV of 16/17 allows Garchomp to trigger an Attack Download for P2 with only 28 SpD EVs invested. As a sash user, this small loss in defense is less significant; the baseline for choosing the defense IV was banded Surging Strikes from Urshifu-R:

252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp on a critical hit: 162-192 (88.5 - 104.9%) -- approx. 12.5% chance to OHKO

Jolly with maximum 252 Spd EVs is obviously desired to stay above threats like Timid Zapdos, with the rest then going into Atk.

Gameplay

I cannot stress enough that Blaziken is your main wincon the majority of the time, for better or worse. This team is structured around getting him inserted as soon as possible and setting up before the opponent can. And I mean as soon as possible; if something else revs up with Airstream before Blaziken can, that can be a very hard hill to climb. Most of the time this involves leading Koko or Garchomp to prime something for Blaziken to abuse.

The following cores are the main ones used throughout my playtime.

Super Bird Bros. Core

:tapu-koko: + :blaziken:

The namesake of the team, Koko sets screens and uses Nature's Madness to prepare for a Blaziken set-up. Screens allow Blaziken to use SD or survive a hit if forced to go straight to Max Knuckle, while Nature's Madness can put bulkier foes in range of said Max Knuckle. Koko as a lead here is also great because he resists both Max Airstream and Max Knuckle, making it less likely that the opponent can boost effectively.

Although I've already mentioned that Koko has a lot of utility outside of screens, a big reason for using him--and for running Thunder Punch on Blaziken--is because this team cannot afford to let top-tier water threats gain significant momentum. Allow me to explain : what does this team have against rain-boosted Geysers should Blaziken go down? Fini, and that's about it. While Earthquake theoretically helps with other matchups such as Naganadel and Dragapult, the team has a much better chance of using Glastrier/Fini/Garchomp to recover from those as opposed to something like Urshifu-R. Combine this with the fact that sun-boosted Flare Blitz beats both T-Punch and Earthquake even when resisted, and the loss in those Dragon matchups isn't as bad as it looks. Koko and T-Punch Blaziken simply provide more flexibility at team preview, at least how the team is structured now.

Who you bring in the back mainly depends on what is likely to sit in front of Koko that Blaziken doesn't want to see, mainly Ground-types but occasionaly Dragon-types as well. Glastrier and Fini are both decent for this, and who you bring depends on what other threats you are worried about. For instance, you bring Fini over Glastrier if opposing Urshifu play is a concern. Defensive Kee Zapdos isn't a bad pick here either if both Glastrier and Fini have major matchups concerns. Sash Garchomp as a "last chance" can occasionally work, though it lacks the appropriate tools to kill quickly against Dynamax threats.

Rocks Snowball Core

:garchomp: + :blaziken:

There are times when Blaziken can sweep straight from Dynamax if sashes are broken; this is where you lead Garchomp to speed control threats and put down rocks. Garchomp can also draw in Ice Beam P2, a great setup target for Blaziken though you need to be wary of the counter Dynamax. Use the standard strategy of sweeping with Blaziken as soon as possible via Swords Dance or Max Knuckle.

Your decision on the third is much the same as above, but keep in mind that without screens you need to be able to withstand hits. Fini over Glastrier is preferred against Swords Dance Landorus-T, for instance, since Fini appreciates the speed control from Rock Tomb more than Glastrier does.

"All-In on Blaziken" Core

:garchomp: + :tapu-koko: + :blaziken:

Basically, pool all your resources into making Blaziken unstoppable. Set rocks and screens and have Blaziken win the 1v3 from the back, though occasionally you can steal kills with the other two given their respectable power. This can work but is risky especially in the face of something like Mimikyu. Make sure you feel comfortable that Blaziken will have an easy sweep or that Garchomp + Koko can trade at least one thing out without losing momentum.

Tapu Bulk Core

:tapu-koko: + :tapu-fini:

If it really doesn't look good for Blaziken--such as in the face of Landorus or Sand Rush Excadrill--this is where you bring Fini's Calm Mind set to take over. Koko screens are still desirable since Fini is very hard to break without super-effective coverage under them. I should stress though that the team is not built around Fini the same way its built around Blaziken, so there really are only certain matchups where you want to go for this. Beware in particular of poison matchups such as Naganadel and even Gunk Shot Cinderace. Still, Calm Mind Fini under screens is disgustingly good when you can get away with it.

Team Preview and Notable Threats

The biggest danger as already mentioned is not getting Blaziken into position quick enough. If an opposing Zapdos gets set up without something like screens to buffer its power, you need something like Glastrier or our own Eerie Impulse Zap to check it. Again, this is why you have Koko Screens and Garchomp speed control; keep them within striking range of Blaziken. As for threats that deserve special mention, I've listed them below. Mons I consider particularly problematic threats are labeled accordingly:

:dracovish:

Worth mentioning since the only hard switch you have is Tapu Fini, who can obviously switch in and tank a hit or two but it can't effectively Calm Mind from that position and Vish is likely to switch out rather than eat a Moonblast. Garchomp as a Sash lead can surprise kill it with Scale Shot as well. In short, make sure you don't let this thing get an easy kill upfront, then get Blaziken going before it can step in and be a real problem. Watch out for TR Mimi + Dracovish setups at preview. In those instances you pretty much always want to bring Fini as the third behind Blaziken's main sweep.

:excadrill:

Sand rush Excadrill is a problem for Blaziken since Blaziken can't outspeed it even at +2 (if sand is down.) However, if Blaziken has screen support it can tank a hit and Max Flare into it, either outright killing it or denying sand so that Blaziken will go first on the follow-up turn since he'll be at least +1. Otherwise, Fini is normally the best call for any kind of Sand Rush offense that doesn't involve Dracozolt.

:corsola-galar:

A pain in the rear end to be sure, especially since we have no super-effective coverage for it. Nonetheless, Blaziken wins here because of Swords Dance outpacing Strength Sap and being immune to burns. Just don't make the mistake of trying to have anything else get into a war of attrition. Screens are useless against this thing in the long run so it doesn't mind burning that time up. As for our other setup mon in Calm Mind Fini, it hates getting hit by Night Shade. A pest for sure but thankfully our main wincon isn't that scared of it.

:mimikyu: ( ! )

Its the premier reverse sweeper in the game, so what did you expect? Furthermore, Trick Lagging Tail, Curse and Trick Room are all huge problems that can immediately neutralize Blaziken's influence. Always pay attention to what's around it and prepare accordingly.

:dragapult: ( ! )

Easily one of the hardest things to play around because of all the things it can do to invalidate the team. Infiltrator (and a higher speed tier than Koko,) Wisp for Glastrier, or even the possibility of its own screens and Curse, the latter of which is a huge problem for Fini. At least in terms of Dynamax, Zapdos can use Kee + Roost to absorb a turn, so that's something to keep in mind. Blaziken really needs to power up if it wants to blow through this with resisted Max Flare / Flare Blitz.

:naganadel: ( ! )

The other big dragon threat, though again Blaziken can muscle past if its gets a Swords Dance and sun up. That is, of course, the big if. Poison coverage sucks for both Koko and Fini, and once it starts getting Beast Boosts it can be a tall ask to come back against. Both Garchomp and Glastrier can threaten it, though they don't like eating attack drops from Max Wyrmwind. As usual, just try to make it uncomfortable enough to run away long enough for Blaziken to get in; its defenses suck so it can be overwhelmed.

:cinderace:

The fire bunny gets a special mention because of Gunk Shot. Never go bulky with Koko and Fini if Cinderace is in the mix, since Gunk Shot can just win the game at that point. Furthermore, scarf variants just outright kill Koko before he can put down screens. Thankfully, Gunk Shot is only around 25% usage and scarf even less than that. Just make sure you aren't putting yourself in position to get completely bowled over by one move.

:clefable: :quagsire: ( ! )

Again, a lack of super-effective coverage really hurts us here, as these Unaware mons can just outright checkmate the entire team. Heavy Slam Glastrier hurts Clefable but getting that in position is awkward. Blaziken can still boost using sun, but it needs to be wary of Kee. Fini can Taunt both of them and wear them down over time assuming they haven't already started boosting defensively. This is one of the few situations where "get Blaziken in right now" doesn't apply, and it definitely exposes one of the major weaknesses of the team (more on that in just a bit.)

:marowak-alola: ( ! )

So here's an interesting one that I actually ran into a couple of times and I would not be surprised if this was sneaky anti-Blaziken tech specifically for Toxapex stall teams. It resists or outright walls the Fire-Fighting-Electric trifecta with its typing and Lightningrod, though it is vulnerable to Earthquake (which is not even a top 10 usage move, by the way.) Mark my words: if Blaziken starts surging in usage you're going to see more of this thing.

Lessons Learned

Blaziken is a BEAST! But...


This team has made me a believer. I said it on Discord earlier : "Why use Speed Boost when you can just Max Airstream?" Because you get to boost twice per turn instead of once. Swords Dance, Max Knuckle and Max Flare sun all make Blaziken devastatingly powerful while Speed Boost just does its thing automatically. Plus, all those options give Blaziken a crap ton of flexibility in what he can use to kill and/or boost at the same time.

However, this team is just too reliant on Blaziken to win everything. I added Fini both to cover ground types and to be a second wincon and it worked to a certain extent, but there are sore spots shared between the two, not least of which is the big bad Zapdos. Blaziken needs a little more help without sacrificing momentum...

In particular, this team struggles with teams that can cycle around screens all while preventing Blaziken from getting in comfortably. Sure, I can pester with Nature's Madness but that doesn't usually win the game; Blaziken going ham does. What little defensive capabilities the team has don't seem to match up well with stall. For instance, Fini blocks status with Misty Surge but has no business going up against Toxapex. Zapdos can't take advantage of either terrain effects the team has because its a Flying type. I wonder if in some of these scenarios I should've just hard-led Blaziken and hoped for an optimal Swords Dance matchup.

Going along with the stall issues, I have also concluded that screens are really hard to do well in this meta. I tried making Koko more aggressive with things like Nature's Madness, but the reality is that most of the time you sack him to set screens or the opponent cycles and just burns them up. Both scenarios represent different types of matchups but either way it generally ends up that Blaziken has to do most of the work in the ensuing 2v3. And with the surge of turn 1 Dynamax teams and Mimikyu shenanigans also being a big factor right now, its too much for Blaziken to shoulder all on his own. If I make another Blaziken team, I'm thinking of trying something more offensively oriented in terms of support.

A Tightening Grasp on Teambuilding

Of course, I don't think it was a total fluke that I got below 500 with this team and consistently trended in the 2000-1000 range to end the season. There was a lot of good stuff going on here, and I think a lot of it had to do with improving my teambuilding throughout the lifetime of this team.

This team started much like a lot of my other teams did: a desire to be anti-meta and screw with people’s expectations. For instance, this team started with Volt Switch Rotom-W as a way to bait in Ferrothorn matchups that Blaziken could then set up on. In theory, it sounded great; in practice, I don’t think that exact scenario happened even once. This was a realization I at least partially came to back with my first semi-successful team “Sand Bluff.” If they take the bait, awesome. If they don’t take it either by having a different switch-in or by not even bringing the targeted mon, you often just lose. This is exactly what happened with Rotom-W: pretty much everything except Ferrothorn was showing up.

As I worked through this and a former unsuccessful team through season 9, I think I finally began to identify the key pieces of a truly successful team. My tendency these days is to try and break down challenging or complicated things into their “basic” component parts; I think I may finally have done it with BSS. The way I see it now, there are three key concepts that have to be properly balanced if you want to have high levels of success:
  • Role Identity
  • Type Synergy
  • Meta Knowledge
I think the temptation with a lot of team-building efforts is to focus on one of these aspects and neglect the others. Let's go back to Ferrothorn for a bit and explore these things. The complexity of team dynamics does mean I am generalizing some, but that's almost impossible not to do given the complexity of Pokemon ranked.

It’s well known that if you want to kill the Steel-Grass beast, the most effective way to do it is to bring fire-type coverage. But to point at that and go “if I bring my fire-type, Ferrothorn loses” is to severely misunderstand team dynamics. Of course fire moves destroy Ferrothorn and of course any competent team builder is prepared for that near inevitability. They bring a defensive partner or revenge killer who has type synergy with Ferrothorn so that you can get out of bad matchups. They use meta knowledge to determine the highest-usage fire users so that you can pick counters who don’t easily die to common secondary coverage. Then Ferrothorn uses Leech Seed not just to enhance its own defensive prowess but to provide healing to its switch-in, giving it a hybrid role identity of defensive tank and medic.

“I can never kill Ferrothorn! It just runs away when I put in my fire type!” OF COURSE IT DOES! Your typical frontline Ferrothorn expects to switch out and it’s moveset and teammates have been structured around this. This is why beating Ferrothorn is so much more complicated than “fire move go brrrrrrr” and why he continues to be a decent threat in the face of one of the strongest fire-types to ever terrorize a generation (though to be fair, he has dropped in usage simply because that particular fire-type is really really hard to efficiently cover.)

Once I began to understand these things not as individual factors but as cohesive pieces is when things really took off. There was a Mamoswine vs. Glastrier decision that I made at one point: Mamoswine was the first consideration as a backline Sash user but I realized that paired with Koko-Blaziken that meant I had no ability to switch in the face of offensive pressure. Mamoswine covered the type synergy aspect of handling ground types for the two, but his role mismatched with what was needed to support the team. So I went the psuedo-sash route of using the more bulky Glastrier and gave it Endure + Custap Berry. I would eventually get my Sash and Rocks user in Garchomp, but his purpose was different and certainly not the one to be called on for switching into something like Landorus.

A different example is that at one point I had Grimmsnarl and Blaziken as the screens pair. This created a problem of the main core being too weak to Fini, particularly because I was already running Glastrier who definitely did not like Fini either. This time the roles were correct but the type synergy was wrong. That is where I realized I couldn't let waters like Fini and Urshifu-R in simply because they were too good at creating their own momentum against the team, so I switched to Koko and never really looked back. Sure, there was still the issue of the shared ground weakness, but that matched up much better with my Glastrier pick.

There is so much to unpack here, but I’ll try to roughly summarize. Good type matchups, raw sweeper/tank stat lines, team flowcharts, meta counterplay… these things do not exist in a vacuum. The best teams know how to put all of these things together to create versatility at minimum expense to overall power. Then, you try to build a squad at team preview that breaks the opponent’s flowchart before it breaks yours.

“Perfect Counters” aren’t always perfect fits. Always be shipping your ideas!

To all beginner/intermediate players out there, if you only come away with one helpful piece of advice from all of this, please make it this: just play the game. Whether you build your own team or rent one, play the game. If you have no idea what you are doing, play anyway. And at the end of the day, always ask questions and be willing to try new things.

The first iteration of this team was nowhere near the level it is now, but if I wasn’t willing to beat my head against a wall and try different things I wouldn’t have gotten to this point. Had I not just thrown Calm Mind Tapu Fini on the team as a YOLO pick for ground/rock types (albeit a very meta YOLO pick,) I could’ve easily settled on something more “big brain” and ego-stroking but less effective overall; no joke, I was considering bulky Ludicolo at one point to counter Excadrill (and kinda sorta other ground-types.) Or I could have just theory-crafted for another week and not played at all. That’s not to say you can’t be creative--Tapu Koko is kinda “off-meta” as a screens setter and maybe I really should’ve tried Ludicolo--but you want to ship that idea sooner rather than later as opposed to meticulously theory-crafting a team that wins only in perfect situations. Remember: a perfect counter really only matters if you draw that matchup in the first place. Having something that does well in several matchups is often better than something that does excellently at only one, and that flexibility generally helps it fit in with more team compositions.

Finally, everyone learns in different ways. I do firmly believe you have to actually play the game if you want to get good at it, but how you supplement that is up to you. For instance, I’m not a big question-asker on the forums or Discord, but I love to watch streams and see what other people are doing. Find a process that works for you; if you don’t know what that is, keep looking until you find it.

In Conclusion

Uh, yeah. I've said a lot already so not much else to say. I drove myself a little crazy at the end of the season but all in all I'm happy with the progress that was made. Its nice to feel like I have something worth posting in the Team Bazaar for once!

To close, I'd like to give a shoutout to cant say for putting this team through its paces on stream. I don't think he knew what to expect when I forced him to use it with a channel reward redemption (and given my last several teams, I assume he was rather apprehensive,) but it was absolutely awesome to see someone else take my team and see some level of success with it. I was able to learn from that as well and even bounce some ideas off of him. Thanks man!

As always, insight and critiques are welcome. Thank you for reading!
 
Hey Photon, nice team and congratulations on your Season in BSS.

I'm not really part of the BSS Community anymore having basically retired but I still play a bit of BSS on the side for fun.

With regards to Dual Screens or in general these types of offences, I've always been of the opinion that Dual Screens are not very good and struggle against more competent players who can punish the linear cycling these teams tend to have or hard Setup T1 or just waste screen turns or force your opponent to choose which screen they want and then just Dynamax the attacker that deals the opposite type profile. There is a lot of options and you are forced into mostly a linear pathway when it comes to playing. Its an unfortunate matter of the playstyle and nothing to do with the team above, but what I see above seems pretty solid. There is no doubt that Blaziken has been rising in popularity in both S14 and S17 and is an underrated pick and I am glad to see people picking it up. If I was to use this team with these exact Pokemon, I'd probably tweak a few of the EV Spreads and sets.

The one that sticks out straight away to me is Glastrier, it should really be 252/252. The main reason for this is I think in practical scenarios it is better. If we are to look at the Dynamax 1v1 of Rhyperior vs. Glastrier, the likelihood is there is going to be a scrap for a few turns. You cannot KO Max HP Rhyperior with 3 Hit Icicle Spear or Close Combat after a Natures Madness either so a situation where you get a KO for free is very unlikely. This is also assuming the opponent doesn't Dynamax the Rhyperior. I think more important is to be able to live Gmax-Fireball from LO Cinderace Guaranteed when Dynamaxed after Stealth Rock or be able to scrap with these other bulkier pokemon in the Dynamax phase. Max HP Glastrier never dies from a Life Orb Zapdos's Max Flare either, allowing you to check it without having to automatically Light Screen T1 or bring your own Zapdos every time you see a Zapdos. In general the bulk I think is more valuable than the ability to outspeed Rhyperior by one point especially when it is this large a loss of bulk. A lot of Rhyperior aren't even 4 Speed (for example SD Rhyperior + Ice Punch speed creep hippowdon) and in many cases hitting them slower if they are Weakness Policy allows you to take less damage in the Dynamax war since Turn 1 is reduced damage and then you can manipulate for Custap range with Max Steelspike. You could consider, given you are running Dual Screens, using Custap Berry without Endure on Glastrier and instead replacing Endure with Swords Dance.

You have made a slight miscalculation in the Tapu Koko EVs, Hippowdon nearly always 2HKOs Tapu Koko through Reflect due to Sand Stream. It is 50% or so at Max HP and 80% at your HP Number (a similar spread was used a lot in SM BSS for bulky Koko that outsped Greninja by 1 point). I think it is generally better for you to go Max HP and forgoe the Download EV Number. In Koko vs. Hippo, it reduces your chances of being KOed after setting up a Light Screen from 25% to 12.5%. Sometimes you want to set up Light Screen and Natures Madness Hippo instead of setting up Light Screen and Reflect or Reflect and Natures Madness. This might be because Light Screen is the more important screen in the matchup and you need chip on Hippowdon. Lets say you have Blaziken in the back as your main win condition or Zapdos, if you Light Screen + Reflect, Hippo will just KO Koko and then it can either max vs. Blaziken where you would lose or Yawn Zapdos. Using Natures Madness gives you the chip on Hippo you need for your sweepers. This also puts Hippo in Range of Tapu Fini without having to use Dynamax. When it comes to Download P2, I think your sweepers are generally pretty good vs. P2 or you can put up the Light Screen if you are threatened by it.

With Fini, you say you want to check strong Water Attackers, I wonder if Sitrus Berry is better for Fini. It allows you to switch into a Banded Fishous Rend from Dracovish and get the Sitrus Berry recovery so you live the next one and 4 of your pokemon are slower than Jolly Band. Leftovers Fini dies to two Fishous Rends. I think the Garchomp EV spread and moveset is fine and like it quite a lot within the context of your team. Zapdos is also fine. Whether you consider the above or not I think the team overall is fine.
 
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cant say

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Thanks for the shoutout! As you know I continued to use the team long after you “forced” me to and I had a lot of fun with it. Rocks/Screens + Blaziken is exactly what I want to use at the moment so having a team (built in a very similar way to how I would have done it) was really handy!

I really disliked the Life Orb chip on Blaziken, it was turning a lot of near-miss KOes from opponents into “this is now your last attack with Blaziken this match” scenarios. I also felt it got owned by Zapdos so badly that I realised Coba Berry is probably the best item for it. I also don’t know where I stand with the whole Thunder Punch vs Earthquake thing either. I always run into the Pokémon that walls you immediately after swapping them. I sometimes felt like Swords Dance was overkill and three attacks + Baton Pass would be better (or even Bulk Up) but then you’d run into a super passive team that requires SD to break. 4MSS has been Blaziken’s weakness since BW so we won’t be solving it anytime soon. At least this team is able to somewhat deal with Dragapult/Naganadel/Corsola etc.

Custap Berry Glastrier is another weird one. On one hand I feel it would be better suited to an AV set with a fourth attack, or Lum + SD, but then you just miss the clutch priority option from then on... Except every time you do get in those situations the opponent always has Protect / Max Guard or a switch up their sleeve.

Finally, I think Zapdos should have Static. The team is weak enough to water Urshifu as is, and speed control options are really limited if you can’t just go the brainless Garchomp lead mode.


I’m looking forward to this team developing more (and other new teams you use your point redemptions on!)
 
I agree w/ ika on the EVs. However, while Koko should be 252 HP you don't have to give up on the Download #. You can run 172 Spe, I do for just up to Cinderace. Mostly I think that's enough. I can't really add anything much, I usually just critique sets I rarely find mons a team is weak to much less cores lol and your sets are fine. But is Lapras maybe an issue? You don't mention it as one, but w/ WP Blaziken, Tapu Koko, Zapdos, and Glastrier can run into problems hitting it SE, esp. the latter cause it's slower so it's hitting through the veil. Fini takes a Freeze-Dry, and it has Ice for Chomp and Zapdos. Still, 5 of your mons hit it SE and I don't think it ever runs both Ice Shard to hit w. priority, and Max Guard to spend it's own Dynamax turn to get back to normal to use that Ice Shard. And ofc if it doesn't Dynamax it's usually no trouble....I'm probably imagining a weakness. At best it probably just trades 1v1 on you sometimes and sets the veil.
 
Hey Photon, nice team and congratulations on your Season in BSS.

I'm not really part of the BSS Community anymore having basically retired but I still play a bit of BSS on the side for fun.

With regards to Dual Screens or in general these types of offences, I've always been of the opinion that Dual Screens are not very good and struggle against more competent players who can punish the linear cycling these teams tend to have or hard Setup T1 or just waste screen turns or force your opponent to choose which screen they want and then just Dynamax the attacker that deals the opposite type profile. There is a lot of options and you are forced into mostly a linear pathway when it comes to playing. Its an unfortunate matter of the playstyle and nothing to do with the team above, but what I see above seems pretty solid. There is no doubt that Blaziken has been rising in popularity in both S14 and S17 and is an underrated pick and I am glad to see people picking it up. If I was to use this team with these exact Pokemon, I'd probably tweak a few of the EV Spreads and sets.

The one that sticks out straight away to me is Glastrier, it should really be 252/252. The main reason for this is I think in practical scenarios it is better. If we are to look at the Dynamax 1v1 of Rhyperior vs. Glastrier, the likelihood is there is going to be a scrap for a few turns. You cannot KO Max HP Rhyperior with 3 Hit Icicle Spear or Close Combat after a Natures Madness either so a situation where you get a KO for free is very unlikely. This is also assuming the opponent doesn't Dynamax the Rhyperior. I think more important is to be able to live Gmax-Fireball from LO Cinderace Guaranteed when Dynamaxed after Stealth Rock or be able to scrap with these other bulkier pokemon in the Dynamax phase. Max HP Glastrier never dies from a Life Orb Zapdos's Max Flare either, allowing you to check it without having to automatically Light Screen T1 or bring your own Zapdos every time you see a Zapdos. In general the bulk I think is more valuable than the ability to outspeed Rhyperior by one point especially when it is this large a loss of bulk. A lot of Rhyperior aren't even 4 Speed (for example SD Rhyperior + Ice Punch speed creep hippowdon) and in many cases hitting them slower if they are Weakness Policy allows you to take less damage in the Dynamax war since Turn 1 is reduced damage and then you can manipulate for Custap range with Max Steelspike. You could consider, given you are running Dual Screens, using Custap Berry without Endure on Glastrier and instead replacing Endure with Swords Dance.

You have made a slight miscalculation in the Tapu Koko EVs, Hippowdon nearly always 2HKOs Tapu Koko through Reflect due to Sand Stream. It is 50% or so at Max HP and 80% at your HP Number (a similar spread was used a lot in SM BSS for bulky Koko that outsped Greninja by 1 point). I think it is generally better for you to go Max HP and forgoe the Download EV Number. In Koko vs. Hippo, it reduces your chances of being KOed after setting up a Light Screen from 25% to 12.5%. Sometimes you want to set up Light Screen and Natures Madness Hippo instead of setting up Light Screen and Reflect or Reflect and Natures Madness. This might be because Light Screen is the more important screen in the matchup and you need chip on Hippowdon. Lets say you have Blaziken in the back as your main win condition or Zapdos, if you Light Screen + Reflect, Hippo will just KO Koko and then it can either max vs. Blaziken where you would lose or Yawn Zapdos. Using Natures Madness gives you the chip on Hippo you need for your sweepers. This also puts Hippo in Range of Tapu Fini without having to use Dynamax. When it comes to Download P2, I think your sweepers are generally pretty good vs. P2 or you can put up the Light Screen if you are threatened by it.

With Fini, you say you want to check strong Water Attackers, I wonder if Sitrus Berry is better for Fini. It allows you to switch into a Banded Fishous Rend from Dracovish and get the Sitrus Berry recovery so you live the next one and 4 of your pokemon are slower than Jolly Band. Leftovers Fini dies to two Fishous Rends. I think the Garchomp EV spread and moveset is fine and like it quite a lot within the context of your team. Zapdos is also fine. Whether you consider the above or not I think the team overall is fine.
I think you make good points about Glastrier and Tapu Koko. The one time Glastrier did end up in a Rhyperior matchup it still wasn't fast enough, ha. Koko and sand chip is actually something I'd noticed in battle and probably should have mentioned it. I do the think the Download EV's are significant since Blaziken wants to take as little chip as possible on a Swords Dance turn though. The Fini item I think is up in the air; it just depends on what I want to be stronger against. Leftovers helps with the Fini mirror but Sitrus Berry helps with Dracovish and going to Dynamax earlier since I get the sudden HP injection. I think moving forward I just have to decide what I need more on Fini, assuming the team stays largely the same.

Thanks for the shoutout! As you know I continued to use the team long after you “forced” me to and I had a lot of fun with it. Rocks/Screens + Blaziken is exactly what I want to use at the moment so having a team (built in a very similar way to how I would have done it) was really handy!

I really disliked the Life Orb chip on Blaziken, it was turning a lot of near-miss KOes from opponents into “this is now your last attack with Blaziken this match” scenarios. I also felt it got owned by Zapdos so badly that I realised Coba Berry is probably the best item for it. I also don’t know where I stand with the whole Thunder Punch vs Earthquake thing either. I always run into the Pokémon that walls you immediately after swapping them. I sometimes felt like Swords Dance was overkill and three attacks + Baton Pass would be better (or even Bulk Up) but then you’d run into a super passive team that requires SD to break. 4MSS has been Blaziken’s weakness since BW so we won’t be solving it anytime soon. At least this team is able to somewhat deal with Dragapult/Naganadel/Corsola etc.

Custap Berry Glastrier is another weird one. On one hand I feel it would be better suited to an AV set with a fourth attack, or Lum + SD, but then you just miss the clutch priority option from then on... Except every time you do get in those situations the opponent always has Protect / Max Guard or a switch up their sleeve.

Finally, I think Zapdos should have Static. The team is weak enough to water Urshifu as is, and speed control options are really limited if you can’t just go the brainless Garchomp lead mode.


I’m looking forward to this team developing more (and other new teams you use your point redemptions on!)
I'm not married to Life Orb myself. The chip does kind of hurt and makes Blaziken easier to cycle; on the other hand though our best move Flare Blitz is already doing big recoil so in some ways the Life Orb is minor by comparison. I think Coba looks like something worth trying but it's not a lock that it flips the Zapdos matchup from the calcs I did. Either way, Blaziken currently has to do way too much for the team, so I need to think long and hard about how to narrow and refine its role on the team and figure out who needs to pick up slack elsewhere.

I really like Custap Glastrier as a psuedo-sash mon, but that could just be personal preference. Zapdos having Static is certainly a possibility too, especially since you get three proc chances per Surging Strikes. Zapdos has been so situational that I don't think more experimentation is out of order, but again that assumes big changes aren't coming to the team.


I agree w/ ika on the EVs. However, while Koko should be 252 HP you don't have to give up on the Download #. You can run 172 Spe, I do for just up to Cinderace. Mostly I think that's enough. I can't really add anything much, I usually just critique sets I rarely find mons a team is weak to much less cores lol and your sets are fine. But is Lapras maybe an issue? You don't mention it as one, but w/ WP Blaziken, Tapu Koko, Zapdos, and Glastrier can run into problems hitting it SE, esp. the latter cause it's slower so it's hitting through the veil. Fini takes a Freeze-Dry, and it has Ice for Chomp and Zapdos. Still, 5 of your mons hit it SE and I don't think it ever runs both Ice Shard to hit w. priority, and Max Guard to spend it's own Dynamax turn to get back to normal to use that Ice Shard. And ofc if it doesn't Dynamax it's usually no trouble....I'm probably imagining a weakness. At best it probably just trades 1v1 on you sometimes and sets the veil.
The big thing about the speed on Koko is that I want to stay above Naganadel to set Light Screen, who is otherwise a problem spot for the team.

Regarding Lapras, we just have to get creative with how we stall out Veil turns. Garchomp can obviously live two turns with Sash, Zapdos can use Eerie Impulse and Glastrier can use Endure + Custap do some shenanigans as well. Its kind of wonky all things considered and isn't bullet-proof of course; the flowchart nature of this team makes it hard to stall this sort of thing without sacrificing in the process. The same thing happens with Turn 1 Dynamax teams as well. As long as we can reduce losses to a single poke we're generally OK but its definitely something I need to look at for future iterations of the team.
 

cant say

twitch.tv/jakecantsay
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I think Coba looks like something worth trying but it's not a lock that it flips the Zapdos matchup from the calcs I did.
It absolutely does in the cases where you want/need to lead Chomp and can't bring Koko for Light Screen. Those games sometimes feel like you're forced to bring Koko which makes you put all your eggs in the Blaziken basket, or not bring Blaziken at all because you'll just lose to their Airstreamer. I was also looking at Max Flare / Flare Blitz calcs vs Zapdos and it looks like Life Orb is unnecessary.
 
It absolutely does in the cases where you want/need to lead Chomp and can't bring Koko for Light Screen. Those games sometimes feel like you're forced to bring Koko which makes you put all your eggs in the Blaziken basket, or not bring Blaziken at all because you'll just lose to their Airstreamer. I was also looking at Max Flare / Flare Blitz calcs vs Zapdos and it looks like Life Orb is unnecessary.
I'm probably just looking at it wrong within the context of my team then. Thinking more about it, Coba basically does the same thing as Light Screen as under normal circumstances Light Screen isn't saving you from more than one Airstream anyway.

But like I said on Discord, hit me up and we can talk. With as much time as you've put into the team we should totally make an experimental 2.0 version of it.
 
I think Cant Say is right that it improves your matchup vs. Zapdos and gives more flexibility in team preview. For me, I'd have to change more than just change LO to Coba because IMO without LO Blaziken your team is too weak for a HO.

Its Generally Max Flare, Max Guard, Max Flare or Max Guard, Max Flare, Max Guard vs. Zapdos in 1v1 with Coba will guarantee you win iirc.
 
I think Cant Say is right that it improves your matchup vs. Zapdos and gives more flexibility in team preview. For me, I'd have to change more than just change LO to Coba because IMO without LO Blaziken your team is too weak for a HO.

Its Generally Max Flare, Max Guard, Max Flare or Max Guard, Max Flare, Max Guard vs. Zapdos in 1v1 with Coba will guarantee you win iirc.
I think looking at it in a strict 1v1 sense was where I was wrong before though. I think its rare for this team to have those two both at full with three turns of Dynamax. Since we lead Koko or Garchomp most of the time, Koko is either getting down screens (which, when combined with Coba, actually lets us live two Airstreams) or Garchomp is chipping and controlling Zapdos with Rock Tomb. I assumed what cant say was arguing is that with Garchomp and rocks down in particular, Coba gets us the rest of the way without needing screens to cushion the Airstream / Hurricane.

I do agree that losing Life Orb is significant: having sun, Knuckle and Life Orb all stack like they do is a big contributing factor to Blaziken's nutty power level. I want to at least try Coba and get some personal data on it so I can see how it compares. If anything, it may be time to just stick Life Orb on Zapdos and make it a pure offensive set, as I've felt for awhile that the team could use a more traditional instance offensive presence if set-up looks iffy or if P2 is just absent altogether. Depending on the changes I make to the next iteration, LO Zapdos could actually fit.
 

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