Superachi is strong like Gouki!!

[JabbaTheGriffin]

Now that ST5 is over for me I wanted to post my team and get it updated for the Latias metagame, since I tried a few ladder matches and Latias gave me some problems. This team falls under the category that I like to call "semi-stall." I have four of your typical stall pokemon. The four I use make up a pretty amazing core that's extremely hard to break. There are barely any Pokemon that I've found completely run through them. The other two slots are dedicated to sweepers that attempt to take advantage of the weakened state of my opponent's team through stalling and entry hazards.

Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Earthquake
- Roar

Hippo is boss. I lead to set up SS and possibly get up SR as soon as possible. I've loved hippo since the beginning of DP and he needs some more love. I originally had Ice Fang > Roar but Roar is so much more useful unless of course I need to damage Salamence which my team is somewhat insanely weak to >_>

Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP/100 Spd/156 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Roar
- Waterfall
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

The BEST Gyarados set. I was using it on a joke team one time and realized that the motherfucker never dies ever. Intimidate + Careful and SpD EV's let him deal with both ends of the spectrum using resists. Scizor, Suicune, Swampert, Heatran and Blissey are just a few of the several Pokemon this Gyarados can come in on and just be a general bitch by shuffling around.

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 202 HP/252 Def/56 SAtk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Seismic Toss
- Wish
- Protect
- Flamethrower

Flamethrower because if I don't run it then Skarmory and Forretress can just come in on me all day and set up their own entry hazards. Might consider Ice Beam to hit Salamence though. Though I'd rather just replace the weak link on my team with something that deals with Salamence maybe. Blissey + Gyarados team up to be pretty awesome and strong!!

Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Gyro Ball
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Zap Cannon

Sets up spikes. When I replace the weak link I may consider running tspikes > Zap Cannon. Right now I run Zap Cannon so that Forretress is my Gyarados "counter." I went with forrey over Skarm because it can spin though with Rotom running around I hardly find a chance to spin anyway and usually I would just rather spend that turn setting up spikes anyway. So unless I do decide on TSpikes I might replace this fucker.

Kingdra (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Waterfall
- Yawn

This is the weak link I've been mentioning this entire time. I'll admit it's saved my ass numerous times, but I just feel like I could be doing so much more with this slot. Maybe a better sweeper or possibly a spin-blocker? Who knows I just want this piece of crap off my team as soon as possible. The team was originally built around the idea that I set up hazards, then Kingdra comes in, yawns, causes hazard damage and gets a free DD. Yeah it didn't exactly go according to plan. Sometimes it does but most of the time Kingdra doesn't even come out until the match is basically won/lost.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 36 HP/220 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Grass Knot

Superachi! He's so strong! He cleans up most of my matches and usually just runs through teams once I get one calm mind under my belt. However the introduction of Latias into the mix makes it harder to sweep. Maybe use a pursuiter (maybe scizor?) over Kingdra so that I can get rid of Latias and at the same time keep HP Fire on Jirachi which I feel is pretty important. I'm pretty sure my speed is random but I don't care. There's no point in maxing it because of HP Fire so I'll just leave it where it is whatever.

Problem Pocket Monsters:

Salamence: Definitely my biggest problem. I rely on SR and SS to wear it down. But last Pokemon DDRoost Salamence is going to 6-0 me. Mixmence also presents quite a problem.

Lucario (with stone edge): I don't know if I should worry about this too much because Superachi is going to outspeed and dent it enough. But before that happens it's probably going to take out at least one pokemon.

I haven't really run into any other problems with the team but feel free to point any out that I may have overlooked. I didn't use this team too much just mainly in ST5 and limited testing before that.

So basically what I'm looking for is a way to update it to handle Latias and I'm looking to get the fuck rid of Kingdra. I swear to god I've hit team builder's block when it comes to that slot. I've been meaning to replace him since I made the team and realized he contributed almost nothing.

 

[Earthworm]

I suggest changing Forretress' set to Payback / Spikes / Toxic Spikes / Rapid Spin and moving the 252 Def EVs into SDef. This will allow you to beat non-Will-o-Wisp Rotom some of the time which should allow you to remove Stealth Rock sometimes which should help out Gyarados a lot. Payback should also help against Refresh Latias if you can work out its set fast enough.

You might want to put Toxic / Softboiled on Blissey instead of Wish / Protect to help deal with most Latias, that is up to you though (I just don't like Wish Protect for some reason). Softboiled Blissey is also better when you get Tricked a Choice Scarf or Choice Specs.

As for replacing Kingdra, I suggest:

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/180 Def/76 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Surf
- Ice Beam / Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Thunderbolt

If you want you can run a Timid set but it gets hurt a lot more by stuff like Life Orb Gyarados in exchange for outspeed stuff like Salamence and Infernape.

This will help cover Gyarados and maybe physical Salamence if you choose to use Ice Beam (you probably should) as well as help out against Stone Edge Lucario. Rapid Spin is also useful to help keep Gyarados healthy (when your opponent has either lots of stuff with Fire moves keeping Forretress out or when you can't get Forretress in to spin for whatever reason) but I think you will find Ice Beam more useful. I'm not sure how you dealt with Metagross either but this should help against it too. Pursuit can be annoying for this set so you might need to make blind predictions. You also keep the Fire and Water resists Kingdra gave you while adding a Fight resist.

 

[Synral]

Infernape is another big issue. Without any Sp. Def EV's, Hippo falls to Grass Knot, and everything else dies rather easily, to. Kingdra is your only possibility, and it loses a good chunk to Close Combat, so it would have to come in as a revenge killer.

Maybe a defensive CM Latias over Kingdra?

 

[locopoke]

I agree with Earthworm in terms of changing the moveset of Forretress. Zap Cannon is pretty cool, I've never thought of using it before, but the low accuracy is pretty mehh. Also this team looks like it needs Toxic Spikes, so I definetely think you should change that moveset. Also, I noticed that you don't have a Spin Blocker, and if somebody brought a Spinner in after Forretress was KO'd, then you'd be fucked. I'd suggest possibly RestTalk Rotom-H or Rotom-W instead of Kingdra. RestTalk is my personal favorite set because it helps him stay alive a lot longer, and when using Stall you need to make sure your Spin Blocker lasts the whole game.

 

[Ancien Régime]

Unless you really want a spinner, I would prefer that Starmie be Scarfed, with 252 Spd / 252 SAtk Modest, with Surf/Hydro Pump/Ice Beam/Thunderbolt/Trick. This always outspeeds +1 DD Salamence, as well as Scarf Flygon. Also addresses Infernape well (though it hates predicted Grass Knots) and can deal good damage in general, especially if you opt for Hydro Pump.

Maybe consider an SR lead Tyranitar over Hippowdon...you may not be able to easily handle generic physical threats, but you'll be able to better handle Latias.

Scarf Gengar can deal with Latios, Lucario and Salamence, but it's not reliable. It can be considered as an alternative option though.

 

[JLei2k]

Hmmm. I might go Swampert over Hippow, and your own Latias over Kingdra with Calm Mind, Roar, Recover, Dragon Pulse. Helps with the Mence Problem and do run that Forrey EV spread. It's definitely the best Forrey. I'd change Jirachi to a Rotom as well but it looks like you don't want to go with full stall.

 

[Ucal]

That kingdra set is much more effective as a lead to be honest. I've been using it (after I saw someone post it in a topic on lead discussion) to great effect lately. I think it has everything a lead can ask for: It absolutely loves getting trickscarfed, it can easily set up baring taunt, and if taunted, usually results in the death of the other lead while remaining relatively unharmed. If it's the third case, I usually switch it out, so it can come in and set up on something that doesn't absolutely counter it.

As for you Salamence worries, I can't recommend highly enough that you get a decent ice type move on one of your stallers. Mamoswine with Ice Shard could do you some wanders, and would make a nice replacement for kingdra if you insist on getting rid of him.

 

[Darkvirus]

if you have a menace problem as you say try a scarf flygon over kingdra.
As it can outrun a menace after 1 DD and finish it with outrage( even if they bring meance in onto your outraging flygon i not sure why but people do it it will ohko) along with being a great scount with U-turn

Flygon @ choice scarf
Adament
ATT 252 Spe 252 HP 4
Outrage
EQ
Stone endge
U-Turn

 

[panamaxis]

Nice team Jabba.

First off, you really need a gyarados counter, relying on that 50% accuracy is gong to screw you over sooner or later, and I agree with the change in foretress's EVs as previous posters have suggested. You defintely need toxic on blissey for latias, (the new forre will beat the refresh version)

With the current team, starmie can come in on half your team with ease and just spin away your hazards, so I'd suggest a rotom form(e) over kingdra, to help with gyarados and to block rapid spin, which it seems like you need to clean up with jirachi.

Speaking of jirachi, yes you're speed is random, I'd personally shoot to outspeed either: adamant lucario, or 252 EVs base 100's (rash salamence, bold zapdos etc.)

Rurushu edit: Yes it is random, base 95 is like what? Arcanine, leafeon, jynx...gliscor..most of these jirachi doesn't need to worry or should be battling against anyway...

 

[Rurushu]

First, the EVs:

IMO, Hippowdon is better with some sdef, so he can always win againt mixmence (he cant switch, but will win 1X1) and help against enemy calm mind jirachis.Your team is kinda weak against him, and he can easily setup X gyarados (you won't be rinking eating a tbolt and you can't really hurt him...)and forretress.The analysis says 88 Sdef and i use 116 (so he will never be 2HKOed by a +1 standard Jirachi).You have a resttalk gyarados AND a Jirachi, so you don't really need Hippowdon to survive +2 Close Combats, but that's just my opinion.

Gyarados really need speed? Maybe he does, but i saw no explanation about this ;x
If he doen't need the speed, you could boost your defense.

Also, i can't see why you are running blissey with HP EVs. Switch them into Sdef or enought Satk to always 2HKO skarmory, but they aren't doing any good right now.

Now let's talk about kingdra...the team has few problems, but they're hard to solve with just one slot, but i will try.

Maybe a REALLY SDEF Bulky Scizor with pursuit and without Choice Band (you can't really give Lucario/Breloon a turn to setup) so you could handle latias, revenge mixmence and pursuit starmie. Why not Bullet Punch/Roost?/Pursuit (the last slot could be Brick Break to help against DS teams, or U-Turn).

Anyway, good team with a amazing pokémon (superachi :D)


EDIT: Jirachi's speed isn't random, he can outspeed base 95 with +nature.