Survivor Survivor Season 6: Fans vs Favorites vs Fumblers (And the winner is...ajhockeystar!)

Cleo

point me to the nearest waffle house
is a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
By the way, none of this is in response to Laurel. He’s made his apology and owned up to it. That’s why it is fair. These things need to be brought up, Whydon. I could give a care less about “oh this person made me feel good”. If that’s all this was about, my friendship with Drookez is stronger than these other two. A clear lack of social game is what I’m talking about. AJ made friends within this game that took him to this final tribal. Even when he made plays, he managed to keep face. Laurel made plays, but didn’t think about face with Jury. It’s a scale. If we’re here to compare and discuss game, these are all fair to bring to the table
 

Cleo

point me to the nearest waffle house
is a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Laurel, you could say you took control of how your relationship ended up with MK. But that’s just further proof that you didn’t try to save face with the Jury. You told me once that the Jury speak with each other. Of course the people you mistreated would communicate this and it would be brought up at a Final Tribal
 
By the way, none of this is in response to Laurel. He’s made his apology and owned up to it. That’s why it is fair. These things need to be brought up, Whydon. I could give a care less about “oh this person made me feel good”. If that’s all this was about, my friendship with Drookez is stronger than these other two. A clear lack of social game is what I’m talking about. AJ made friends within this game that took him to this final tribal. Even when he made plays, he managed to keep face. Laurel made plays, but didn’t think about face with Jury. It’s a scale. If we’re here to compare and discuss game, these are all fair to bring to the table
Yes, and I agree, but personally I don't think it's fair to compare them on the same scale when they were forced to play very different games. Laurel had to deal with a very early blindside that some could argue wasn't even in his control. I don't think Laurel could have "saved face" even if he wanted to, and for AJ it was easier to do because he was never in a position where he had to truly be aggressive or abrasive to get ahead in the game. I feel like this type of positioning just comes down to circumstances in the early game, ie. who ends up on your initial tribe, what type of personalities are you forced to deal with, etc. You can argue that this isn't the case, and that players are 100% in control of the outcome of their game, but personally I argue against that. There are some things you just can't control, but ultimately I think someone should be rewarded for how they had to play the game that was given to them, and how well they managed to take advantage of the situations they were put in. That's how I'm deciding my vote, but of course it's different for everyone. Just my two cents, if you will.
 
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Cleo

point me to the nearest waffle house
is a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Of course he could have saved face? That’s what this is all about. This is the internet for a reason. You can’t control emotions in real life. That’s bonkers. But you can control how your messages are written. Compared to IRL, you can edit messages, delete messages, walk away and respond after some time has passed, think before you write.

And that’s why we’re comparing games, Whydon. One player controlled the game, and the other lost control of his entire game. There are many reasons he lost control of his own game, but one is most definitely his social game. And if we’re comparing based off your criteria, then you aren’t judging AJ and Laurel on similar grounds because you’ve already decided on Laurel since this even started.

I haven’t decided my vote, but I’m not going to judge unfairly. Everything needs to be taken into account because the game has been played and now we review how they played. If you’re going to say “well AJ never had to be put in that situation”, then you need to take a step back and think why he never had to. Because he controlled the game the way he wanted to and got what he wanted
 
By the way, none of this is in response to Laurel. He’s made his apology and owned up to it. That’s why it is fair. These things need to be brought up, Whydon. I could give a care less about “oh this person made me feel good”. If that’s all this was about, my friendship with Drookez is stronger than these other two. A clear lack of social game is what I’m talking about. AJ made friends within this game that took him to this final tribal. Even when he made plays, he managed to keep face. Laurel made plays, but didn’t think about face with Jury. It’s a scale. If we’re here to compare and discuss game, these are all fair to bring to the table
While I upset more people in this game than AJ did, I made friends in this game too including blue, AJ, and Whydon. Had I had no relationships at all, I would have been place #12 or #13. I've discussed our relationships extensively, so I'm not sure what to add. My social game was just as important as my immunity streak to get me here.

Laurel, you could say you took control of how your relationship ended up with MK. But that’s just further proof that you didn’t try to save face with the Jury. You told me once that the Jury speak with each other. Of course the people you mistreated would communicate this and it would be brought up at a Final Tribal
I did try and save face with MK007 . I spoke with him extensively before he was voted out. We talked a lot with one another about what we do and who we are, thats why I know his occupation, and I apologized to him about my comments and he apologized right back. While words can never be taken back, I think we made a lot of progress after being at eachother's throat.
 

Cleo

point me to the nearest waffle house
is a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Also, again, not in response to you Laurel. I accept your apology, and acknowledge how this must feel for you. I’m only comparing games based on how both of you decided to play it
 
You're implying he "lost control" when Trace got voted out (I argue that it was when OM used the idol on you, but w/e). You say that he lost control of the game because of his social game. Did you have any issues with Laurel prior to the Trace vote? Because according to Laurel it sounds like you guys had a good relationship, and the only other person who I could think of that had a problem with Laurel was MK, but even that didn't become a major issue until the double idol vote.
 

Cleo

point me to the nearest waffle house
is a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Laurel hadn’t said anything “wrong” or “hurtful” until I voted him. Trace was playing both alliances, and I got wind that he wanted to vote out a Fan (one of the five fans alliance). I defended myself and Inferno, and left Laurel out of it because he really wanted to trust Trace
 
Of course he could have saved face? That’s what this is all about. This is the internet for a reason. You can’t control emotions in real life. That’s bonkers. But you can control how your messages are written. Compared to IRL, you can edit messages, delete messages, walk away and respond after some time has passed, think before you write.

And that’s why we’re comparing games, Whydon. One player controlled the game, and the other lost control of his entire game. There are many reasons he lost control of his own game, but one is most definitely his social game. And if we’re comparing based off your criteria, then you aren’t judging AJ and Laurel on similar grounds because you’ve already decided on Laurel since this even started.

I haven’t decided my vote, but I’m not going to judge unfairly. Everything needs to be taken into account because the game has been played and now we review how they played. If you’re going to say “well AJ never had to be put in that situation”, then you need to take a step back and think why he never had to. Because he controlled the game the way he wanted to and got what he wanted
I don't think its fair to say I lost control of my own game. If that were the case I would have been eliminated at 9, 8 or even 5. While I didn't have the number of relationships that other people in the game had, I leveraged the ones that I did and made the most of them.

Survivor is about playing with the cards you're dealt, and thats what I did.

If you're undecided, how can I earn your vote? I gave you everything I had in my opening speech, you said you wanted a good speech, I wrote 6,000 words... (awkward LOL).
 
To me it sounds like your relationship started to fall apart after the Trace vote, which seems perfectly reasonable given that you were the one to blindside him, so honestly it kinda sounds like it was more your fault than his? idk, I'm just confused because you say he lost control because of his poor social game. Can you clarify at what point in the game he lost control? Was it before the Trace vote?
 

Cleo

point me to the nearest waffle house
is a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
You don’t have to construde my words either, Whydon. I never said he lost control at that point, but even you admit he lost control of the game. If we’re comparing games, one lost control and one maintained control
 
You don’t have to construde my words either, Whydon. I never said he lost control at that point, but even you admit he lost control of the game. If we’re comparing games, one lost control and one maintained control
In a sense, I maintained control by winning immunity again and again. For three of the votes down the stretch I was safer than AJ was. I want to add how important it was for me to tell AJ that he beat me in the final challenge. I didn't think I could count to 6,000, and making it so that he only counted twice helped me greatly.
 
I'm not trying to construde your words btw, I'm genuinely confused so I'm hoping you can give a little bit more clarification as to what you mean by saying that Laurel lost control because of his social game
 

Cleo

point me to the nearest waffle house
is a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
I don't think its fair to say I lost control of my own game. If that were the case I would have been eliminated at 9, 8 or even 5. While I didn't have the number of relationships that other people in the game had, I leveraged the ones that I did and made the most of them.

Survivor is about playing with the cards you're dealt, and thats what I did.

If you're undecided, how can I earn your vote? I gave you everything I had in my opening speech, you said you wanted a good speech, I wrote 6,000 words... (awkward LOL).
You lost control when you lost control of the votes. And you can’t claim control of the final five vote. Drook or AJ never wanted to take OM because he was a threat.

You did give a good speech, and I said that. But I’m not going to base it off just a speech if there’s two good ones? The game and this final tribal all matter. The way you earn my vote is how you handle this final tribal. All these questions and answers aren’t for nothing
 

Cleo

point me to the nearest waffle house
is a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
I'm not trying to construde your words btw, I'm genuinely confused so I'm hoping you can give a little bit more clarification as to what you mean by saying that Laurel lost control because of his social game
Compare their games Whydon, truly. AJ maintained control by keeping relationships he built, and picked off players one by one. Laurel lost control once people didn’t want to woro with him after his blowups. Systematically, his alliance was removed one by one. That’s how you lose control. If he maintained control, he never would have had to been put in the situation of “needing to win immunity”
 
Cleo I want to point out too that down the stretch, AJ's mentality was "as long as it aint me" I don't necessarily know if thats someone in full control. If we're talking full control, he would have voted you out over Mari. However, as you mentioned, you're close with Drookez. He would've vote you > Mari, because that still kept in OM as a safety net.

Yes, OM is a big threat, but so was I. My relationship with AJ helped saved me in that vote. At the end of the day, we're going to try and discredit each other in this tribal but we're friends, thats why AJ was going to make me and you do fire if he won immunity. He wanted me here at the end, and even though I had serious thoughts back and fourth, I wanted him here too.
 
And yes, people did want to work with Laurel, it's why he's in the final 3. Inferno wanted to work with him at F10. Mari/Shub wanted to work with him at F7. AJ/Drook wanted to work with him at F5. Blue/myself worked with him the entire game up until we got voted out. I'm just saying that I think you're discrediting Laurel's game for the wrong reasons, which isn't really fair to him as a player.
 

Cleo

point me to the nearest waffle house
is a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
But was it the blowups that you made you not want to work with Laurel? Because as far as I know, Laurel didn't have a blowup prior to the Trace vote.
I’ve already responded to this mate. Trace was blindsided, and Laurel was not included due to his close relationship with him. His blowup was the result of the Fans alliance breaking up and voting him.

And yes, people did want to work with Laurel, it's why he's in the final 3. Inferno wanted to work with him at F10. Mari/Shub wanted to work with him at F7. AJ/Drook wanted to work with him at F5. Blue/myself worked with him the entire game up until we got voted out. I'm just saying that I think you're discrediting Laurel's game for the wrong reasons, which isn't really fair to him as a player.
You need to rethink those moments really. F7, he wasn’t in control and Shub was kicked off. F5, he still wasn’t in control. My relationship with Drookez is the reason why AJ kept me in the game. We were never going to fight each other. AJ wanted OM gone so Drook wanted OM gone. If Drook wanted OM gone, I voted OM. We had majority already, and Laurel’s just trying to take credit for that f5 tribal
 
And yes, people did want to work with Laurel, it's why he's in the final 3. Inferno wanted to work with him at F10. Mari/Shub wanted to work with him at F7. AJ/Drook wanted to work with him at F5. Blue/myself worked with him the entire game up until we got voted out. I'm just saying that I think you're discrediting Laurel's game for the wrong reasons, which isn't really fair to him as a player.
retweet.

As I've said, maybe AJ had more friends in this game, but I certainly had friends. There were people who wanted to work with me and thats why I don't think its fair to discredit my social game. Did I make social mistakes? 100%. But I made the most out of what I had. You know the disadvantage we had not knowing people going into the game.

There are certain people in this game that I was nothing but genuine with, shubaka17 , PokeMariTatoe , trace , Whydon , bluedoom . I sprinkled in some white lies to AJ, but you can include he and Drookez here too. At one point or another, I worked with all these people, and I always told them my true intentions. I was nothing but honest to the people I could trust and as I said, seeing all my friends go one by one was part of the reason I was so motivated to be successful.
 
ajhockeystar last question but tell me the events and thoughts that you had while you were in the favorites and fox tribes. Was there a commotion in the favorites tribe, were you actually in control pre merge (it didn't seem so since shubaka definitely got pissed off when you told him that you were voting rag so there was a real chance of you getting blindsided in the fox tribe)

I'm gonna let the others talk, just wanted to know the experiences of all the finalists. I'd like to point out to the people angry at laurel's game that even if he was harsh with people(no doubt),he only stabbed or retaliated against people who had done him dirty previously(or when he had no choice) ,so he didn't go out of his way to piss people off or stab them outright from my perspective. I definitely think he's a loyal person, maybe loyal to a fault, so he has definitely had a less stabby game compared to some of the others. While that no doubt impacted his game(and he definitely lost a bit of control because people were hesitant to work with him) I do think that we should appreciate his great challenge performances and general enthusiasm for playing the game compared to a lot of the other players(including aj, laurel definitely had the fiery fighting spirit that i can see). Regardless of who we vote i hope we don't have any bad blood between us over a game.
 
I’ve already responded to this mate. Trace was blindsided, and Laurel was not included due to his close relationship with him. His blowup was the result of the Fans alliance breaking up and voting him.


You need to rethink those moments really. F7, he wasn’t in control and Shub was kicked off. F5, he still wasn’t in control. My relationship with Drookez is the reason why AJ kept me in the game. We were never going to fight each other. AJ wanted OM gone so Drook wanted OM gone. If Drook wanted OM gone, I voted OM. We had majority already, and Laurel’s just trying to take credit for that f5 tribal
I never said he was in control at those votes, but you said people didn't want to work with him which is false. If nobody wanted to work with him, Laurel should have been voted out when Inferno was voted, Blue was voted, or when I was voted, or when OM was voted. Laurel didn't win 10 immunities, he won 4, and only 2 of them really mattered. There were many, many opportunities for the game to take out Laurel...and yet it never happened. And it wasn't by sheer luck, as Laurel has explained in his speech.
 

Cleo

point me to the nearest waffle house
is a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Cleo I want to point out too that down the stretch, AJ's mentality was "as long as it aint me" I don't necessarily know if thats someone in full control. If we're talking full control, he would have voted you out over Mari. However, as you mentioned, you're close with Drookez. He would've vote you > Mari, because that still kept in OM as a safety net.

Yes, OM is a big threat, but so was I. My relationship with AJ helped saved me in that vote. At the end of the day, we're going to try and discredit each other in this tribal but we're friends, thats why AJ was going to make me and you do fire if he won immunity. He wanted me here at the end, and even though I had serious thoughts back and fourth, I wanted him here too.
That is control, defined. If he had the power to say “idc who it is”, then he’s in a very comfortable position. You can’t say the same. He wouldn’t vote me out either since social game comes into play
 

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