SV BSS Regulation A Viability Rankings

[vivekp]

I didn't realize, but everybody forgot maushold. I think it deserves a place. Nvm the stats, population bomb is a horror.

Idk, when ghost and steel types are so prevalent, and when damn near every team has either a rough skin chomp, a rocky helmet mon, or both, I feel like Maushold doesn't really see any usage. IMO you'd be hard pressed to find a team in MB you can go up against and feel confident in bringing Maushold to the fight. Just gets disrupted too easily and is too telegraphed.

 

[vivekp]

What's the deal with houndstone? 3v3 doesn't lend well to last respects, and beyond that I don't see what the mon really has to offer. Fluffy is a great ability and Houndstone has good natural bulk, but we really aren't starved for physically defensive mons in this meta that bring great utility, and I don't see much unique utility in Houndstone's movepool. In addition, it seems inconsistent, as in terms of making use of its good attack with STAB, it either has to settle for the inconsistency of Last Respects or the inherent drawbacks of Phantom Force. What exactly is the niche it's carved out? I think this mon seems like absolute garbage in BSS. I saw maybe 2 in the over 600 games I played this series, so maybe I just never got the memo lol

 

[Omastar68]

Ok! I guess it's more like Shedinja used to be. Bad in itself, but even if you were gonna have a team w/ stuff to beat it anyway, you are then forced to bring some/all of that stuff. I guess that doesn't really make for a niche so nvm. You're right on it being rare higher, I just used to see it more earlier.

 

[Gladio]

I see Gallade has somehow snuck into another tier as well, albeit as a niche option. Very nice.
Which does tickle my curiosity: what's Gallade's niche / best set in current BSS?
Agility / SD strike me as unhortodox choices here despite their success in other unofficial metas due to the overabundance of priority and/or Skeledirge, while Choiced sets have the additional power of Sharpness together with the utility of Trick, Memendo/Dbond, or a 4th coverage move, but I can't quite put it together considering I have never seen one on ladder, nor seen it do anything of value.

 

[Omastar68]

I see Gallade has somehow snuck into another tier as well, albeit as a niche option. Very nice.
Which does tickle my curiosity: what's Gallade's niche / best set in current BSS?
Agility / SD strike me as unhortodox choices here despite their success in other unofficial metas due to the overabundance of priority and/or Skeledirge, while Choiced sets have the additional power of Sharpness together with the utility of Trick, Memendo/Dbond, or a 4th coverage move, but I can't quite put it together considering I have never seen one on ladder, nor seen it do anything of value.

I don't know the best set, but it definitely deals a lot of damage with sharpness. I saw it a few times, it ohkod a lot. For instance, I used to run AV Alomomola. AV means I wasn't much Def, or even HP cause of base stat distribution. People may know that Alomomola is quite physically bulky, and yet....

252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpness Gallade Leaf Blade vs. 28 HP / 4+ Def Alomomola: 231-273 (94.6 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

Gallade has a great movepool, w/ plenty of moves for Sharpness. Niche sounds wrong-it just does a lot of damage. You pay for it in Spe and def though, so it's not a top-tier threat.

 

[DerpySuX]

What's the deal with houndstone? 3v3 doesn't lend well to last respects, and beyond that I don't see what the mon really has to offer. Fluffy is a great ability and Houndstone has good natural bulk, but we really aren't starved for physically defensive mons in this meta that bring great utility, and I don't see much unique utility in Houndstone's movepool. In addition, it seems inconsistent, as in terms of making use of its good attack with STAB, it either has to settle for the inconsistency of Last Respects or the inherent drawbacks of Phantom Force. What exactly is the niche it's carved out? I think this mon seems like absolute garbage in BSS. I saw maybe 2 in the over 600 games I played this series, so maybe I just never got the memo lol

Houndstone isn’t very popular or common, and it’s not quite as nuclear as it is in 6v6, however 150 BP ghost STAB is still no joke, sand rush and fluffy are both quite viable abilities, and of course houndstone can terastallize to augment it’s offense even more, either dodging a shadow sneak or sucker punch, or it can go all in on last respects by Terastallizing ghost.

It’s worth keeping in mind that the niche tier is mainly reserved for Pokémon that have significant flaws and/or require more support than most other mons, but have the potential to be valuable nonetheless. Houndstone definitely fits this criteria in my opinion.

 

[Omastar68]

I haven't seen one Krookodile in about 500 games. It seems mediocre, not sure it's even niche. I looked at it a while, the Spe isn't great, and the bulk and power are only kind of good. Doesn't seem as good as stuff in niche, such as TTar and one of the other moxie mons, Quaquaval. Even w/ a good move pool there's no real reason to use it I think.

 

[Spindash65]

It could just be confirmation bias, but I’ve been having very good luck with Tinted Lens Venomoth so far. It’s not really anything NEW compared to what it’s done in previous Gens, but Tera DOES give it the option to run STAB Psychic or Giga Drain, and after a Quiver Dance, not much is happy to take a hit

yeah, it’s largely outclassed by Volcarona, who has better stats, STAB Fire Blast, and similar moves, but Tinted Lens is still a very strong ability that can give some consistency when you don’t know what the opponent will Terastalize into: Bug Buzz can NEVER be weaker than neutral damage against a Terastalized Pokémon. I can’t see it as more than niche, but it’s still something I want to at least acknowledge

 

[DerpySuX]

It could just be confirmation bias, but I’ve been having very good luck with Tinted Lens Venomoth so far. It’s not really anything NEW compared to what it’s done in previous Gens, but Tera DOES give it the option to run STAB Psychic or Giga Drain, and after a Quiver Dance, not much is happy to take a hit

yeah, it’s largely outclassed by Volcarona, who has better stats, STAB Fire Blast, and similar moves, but Tinted Lens is still a very strong ability that can give some consistency when you don’t know what the opponent will Terastalize into: Bug Buzz can NEVER be weaker than neutral damage against a Terastalized Pokémon. I can’t see it as more than niche, but it’s still something I want to at least acknowledge

I’ve been wondering about venomoth too actually lol. As of right now, nobody on the VR board has used or seen much, if any venomoth though, which makes it rather difficult to discuss how viable it might be, if at all.

 

[Omastar68]

I remember gen 6 or so, the vr thread had a number of Pokemon listed that had been, presumably, talked about a lot before and were off limits to talk about cause they were shot down. Florges, Darmanitan(before g...) Donphan was one. I actually think it's ok, but what has changed so much to allow it to be niche vs don't even discuss? Ice Shard seems weaker, those dragons can all realistically go steel for all 3 of dragon's weaknesses. Spinning is never good in 3v3, as far as I know. It's a SR setter, but so are many things. All that really stands out to me is Sturdy SR. But even w/ the normal ability Garganacl is pretty sturdy, so you could just run SR on that I figure(it dislikes giving up the slot more than Donphan though.) I think this thread has settled very well on what to add, so it seems like it's mostly just questions about some niche stuff now.

 

[Spindash65]

It gets Ice spinner now, which is a very strong coverage option. I don’t know if Gunk Shot is new or not, but it’s certainly helpful as well.

I think the biggest part of it is really just that the Elon Tusk duo showed how strong the base movekit of Donphan can be for general utility, so Donphan is more popular to consider just by proxy

 

[Pearl]

I remember gen 6 or so, the vr thread had a number of Pokemon listed that had been, presumably, talked about a lot before and were off limits to talk about cause they were shot down. Florges, Darmanitan(before g...) Donphan was one. I actually think it's ok, but what has changed so much to allow it to be niche vs don't even discuss? Ice Shard seems weaker, those dragons can all realistically go steel for all 3 of dragon's weaknesses. Spinning is never good in 3v3, as far as I know. It's a SR setter, but so are many things. All that really stands out to me is Sturdy SR. But even w/ the normal ability Garganacl is pretty sturdy, so you could just run SR on that I figure(it dislikes giving up the slot more than Donphan though.) I think this thread has settled very well on what to add, so it seems like it's mostly just questions about some niche stuff now.

- series 1 meta is extremely lacking in ground types (as seen by the fact that mudsdale is a pokemon people slap onto teams as well. clodsire exists but its geared towards handling different threats better)
- sturdy is a good ability and can be paired with endeavor and ice shard for surprise kills (obviously doesnt work every game, but just the threat of it makes donphan annoying to play against)
- knock off distribution is pretty scarce now which makes it an actual selling point over alternatives
- metagame is very physical leaning as a whole and donphan can trade blows vs a lot of pokemon
- dragonite's dominance makes both stealth rock and rapid spin way stronger than most bss players are used to

not that i think donphan is a top tier pokemon, but its a genuine part of the metagame right now, although its family will most likely kill its viability again from series 2 onward

 

[Omastar68]

- series 1 meta is extremely lacking in ground types (as seen by the fact that mudsdale is a pokemon people slap onto teams as well. clodsire exists but its geared towards handling different threats better)
- sturdy is a good ability and can be paired with endeavor and ice shard for surprise kills (obviously doesnt work every game, but just the threat of it makes donphan annoying to play against)
- knock off distribution is pretty scarce now which makes it an actual selling point over alternatives
- metagame is very physical leaning as a whole and donphan can trade blows vs a lot of pokemon
- dragonite's dominance makes both stealth rock and rapid spin way stronger than most bss players are used to

not that i think donphan is a top tier pokemon, but its a genuine part of the metagame right now, although its family will most likely kill its viability again from series 2 onward

You must be the Pearl who did great with Dudunsparce, are you gonna try to get that on here? I'd be in favor. Not nomming it myself, never used it.

 

[iLuxxor]

I’m going to use a Pelipper for a rain team in-game, and I’m just wondering if I should make it physically defensive or just make it offensive with max special attack Modest. Since longevity isn’t too important in 3v3. Probably using Damp Rock on it

 

[Omastar68]

I’m going to use a Pelipper for a rain team in-game, and I’m just wondering if I should make it physically defensive or just make it offensive with max special attack Modest. Since longevity isn’t too important in 3v3. Probably using Damp Rock on it

Go to simple question thread(we'll be moved so nw now.) That said the analysis lists both so it'd be team dependent(and I wouldn't know.)

 

[Psynergy]

In light of Series 2 coming soon, we've decided to properly stratify the tiers into more appropriate rankings now. Both greilmercenary9 and Pearl have been assisting in this effort recently so they are being credited for contribution as well, both are very skilled players and probably familiar names if you've been around on Smogon or the BSS community for awhile.

We did not have a hyper focused voting period for this since the main purpose of this update is to prepare for the upcoming metagame while allowing us to archive the metagame of Series 1 in some capacity as well. It is likely that a new thread will be made for Series 2 VR and so this one will be archived for future reference. On the off chance that they ban Paradox Pokemon for Series 3 and we return to this meta we can refer back to this thread, but the current rankings will be used as a baseline so we will hopefully be able to update with the Paradox Pokemon early on into Series 2.

You will notice that each tier only has two subgroups within each tier, in all cases except S tier we have a + tier to denote particularly potent Pokemon within that tier, while S tier opts for an S- tier for Gholdengo because there is a general consensus that it is better than anything in A+ tier but not quite on the level of the rest of S tier. We can opt to split ranks further to add a subgroup for A-/B- but with the metagame lasting for such a short time it may be unnecessary.

Of course, this list is still just an aggregate of various opinions without a formal voting period so perhaps there is something on the list that sticks out as being in the wrong place, in which case feel free to suggest changes! There's only a few weeks left in the current ruleset but I know that not everyone is 100% in agreement with these rankings, so if you think something should be moved then you might not be the only one to think that.

 

[Pearl]

some random thoughts that i didnt have much time to voice before this came out (on phone, sorry about shitty formatting):

this first part isnt very relevant probably cause my interpretation of the metagame at the top is a bit different from whats currently shown but i can respect whats showcased atm and ultimately i dont think it would matter much if it were changed

dragonite and dragapult have a chokehold on the series 1 meta and despite being an amazing mon i dont quite see chomp as being on the same level as those 2, as its more offensive sets are generally more telegraphed. id also say baxcalibur is a S- tier pokemon, but ive brought up my appreciation for this pokemon on discord before and it didnt feel like other people rated it quite as highly as me. not much move diversity, but each variation of items and tera type might as well have different counterplay. have seen tera ice pop up more often and it hits like a truck

think meowscarada hype has died down a bit on the cart ladder, but its still very strong and highly customizable imo. A might be more accurate for it but either rank is sound enough

breloom should be moved down to B or B+ IMO. usable mon but it really hates pult and gholdengo (also dnite kinda but thats more set dependent on both ends). the threat of it in team preview can be used to bring out specific mons, but its actual performance doesnt quite hold up to other mons in the rank

rotom heat feels a bit too highly placed but i can live with that, id probably have it in B+ personally mostly cause wash is generally better but once again i dont feel too strongly about it

espathra should move up to A rank. if we were counting calm mind stored power sets exclusively its current rank would prob be accurate, but this mon is so annoying and does so many different things that its honestly overwhelming at times. lumina crash lead sets can fit in either hypnosis and baton pass, and then theres also stuff like screens or cm + baton pass that have found their way onto some teams last season.

tinkaton could also be moved up to A. i used it to some decent results last season with an offensive set, but the real juice is in its capabilities as a sr lead. very disruptive mon that found its way onto many high rated teams last season. many things have to straight up tera to have a chance at eliminating it before it does its job, and at that point you could argue its a favorable trade for many compositions

umbreon should be moved up to A and i honestly dunno how we let this slide. excellent pokemon in series 1 that, unlike its smogon formats counterpart is extremely hard to abuse for enemy teams between yawn and foul play. its physically defensive spread serves as an excellent check to non cb baxcalibur and dragonite, while also retaining its usefulness into gholdengo and dragapult as a whole. id say its not an exaggeration to say that many teams straight up can not break it

i also think houndstone is better than C rank, but comps with it tend to be very rigid and i honestly dont have much experience actually using it, but it tends to give me some issues whenever i face it

 

[Omastar68]

Omg, mudsdale on here AND Orthworm in B is awesome! I'd still take out krookodile, and Gengar seems high to me. It was only good, not great before the ranks were better defined, it should be somewhere in B. I agree on Chomp, Espathra, and Breloom(the above post that is.)

 

[Theorymon]

Omg, mudsdale on here AND Orthworm in B is awesome! I'd still take out krookodile, and Gengar seems high to me. It was only good, not great before the ranks were better defined, it should be somewhere in B. I agree on Chomp, Espathra, and Breloom(the above post that is.)

So to explain Krookodile: Krookdile is basically the only decent Intimidate Pokemon right now with useful support moves. The big thing that made it infamous was a Japanese team made by a Super Smash Bros player of all things, used Fling + Light Ball Krookodile to help get an Espathra snowball rolling. Its got other useful support moves too like Stealth Rock and Dragon Tail, and the Psychic-type immunity DOES come in handy against Espathra leads.

Krookodile isn't like, an earth shattering part of the metagame or anything, but until Landorus-T comes back, Krookodile is basically as good as it gets for Intimidate support mons.

 

[thedarklordanta]

Just wanna share some of my opinions based on 200+ battles in the ranked class, my team goes as follows:
Arcanine
Goodra
Volcarona
Umbreon
RotomW
Gallade
I wanna start by saying Arcanine is an incredible user of intimidate and my #1 most unpredictable pick with a fairy terra coupled with play rough to counter the dragon heavy meta makes it a serious threat to a lot of teams I encountered. I chose close Combat over wild Charge for coverage because of the ability to 2hko gargancl on the switch. Extremespede makes it amazing at both revenge killing and taking away focus sash, always works on meowscarada and even palafin to set up against the flip turn to catch them off guard. Fire is incredibly good against a lot of threats like kingambit and gholdengo and flare Blitz will get the ohko every time. Hands down super underrated pokemon especially when you have great offensive and defensive terras at your disposal.
Second, assault vest on Goodra makes it a super oppressive special wall against almost all the special threats in the meta that aren't dragon when you don't consider terra types. The only mons who can deal with acid spray+coverage move is steel types and if they give you trouble it has access to fire blast/flamethrower. Considering my team I opt for Poison terra to counter fairy Rotom, azumaril, and even play Rough meowscarada. It's always safe to switch into rotom, handles walls like gargancl, dondozo, and even clodsire by neutralizing thier special defenses either on the switch or by eating a move or two. Goodra has won me many matches because it was taken lightly, and the ability gooey usually forces them to switch out after knocking goodra out because they will be outsped.
And third, umbreon is more of a niche counter to a lot of threats when used correctly. Ghost terra typing is what absolutely shuts down Dragonite, Maushold, and drain punches that can be seen from a mile away. Baby doll eyes is what I use instead of protect because it can help wall out even supereffective hits and help it eat u-turns. Thunder wave is always detrimental to any set up pokemon or even walls, moonlight and leftovers make it really hard to get off the field, and foul play makes it great against all the physical threats.

Again, this analysis is after hundreds of matches, not all of them were wins of course but most notably I did exceptionally well against teams that used a lot of the mons rated so highly like Palafin, Hydreigon, Breloom, Espathra, just to name a few. I think unpredictability goes a really long way in this game with terra types being a thing and in a competitive scene somehow people forget to think outside the box a little bit.

 

[Omastar68]

I've only seen snarl Arcanine, I think. That sounds potentially stronger! And cool of you to use baby-doll eyes, I've tried to before too. I definitely think goodra could be C rank.

Arcanine, goodra, and gallade is unusual, but I definitely have you beat on weirdness. So much so that I think I'll hold off on suggesting any of the 5 mons not on here.

 

[DerpySuX]

Longe

Arcanine and Umbreon are already ranked. If a mon is on this list we are directly saying that it is good in some capacity. B tier is perfectly usable, and outside of Rotom and Volcarona these mons are not as consistently useful as the S-A tier mons. Playing a lot of games doesn’t automatically make you better informed than anyone else. Palafin and especially Breloom aren’t even seen that often at high level anymore, and at least in Breloom’s case, it’s almost always a bait set.Remember that the rankings here are designed primarily to give an indicator of reliability and consistency in the metagame at present. While thinking outside the box is indeed valuable, reliability and consistency are still vitally important for sustained success especially on the high ladder, and analyzing this also requires being able to separate your own specific results and experience with the metagame as a whole in both theory and practice.

As an example, Arcanine is an inferior intimidator to Tauros imo. Tauros has better physical bulk, better speed, and arguably a better typing for the current metagame. This combination of traits allows it to be one of the best Kingambit answers while also performing well against a wide array of physical threats. Further, Tauros has Raging Bull, which breaks screens and allows it to keep offensive pressure, and STAB Body Press, which allows it to dish out great Fighting type damage without suffering Close Combat defense drops. As an espeed revenge killer, Dragonite exists and is an easy Top 3 Pokemon in the meta. I am all for thinking outside the box, but if you want an Espeed spammer, why would you pick the weaker, frailer mon when there is a stronger, bulkier user of the same move that also happens to be one of the absolute best general offense pokes in the metagame? The main advantage that Arcanine offers is the compression of two roles: Intimidate mon and priority revenge killer. However, it does not do either of those roles better than already established metagame threats and suffers from stretching itself a bit thin across multiple roles that other mons do better in isolation. As such, I cannot, with good faith, rank it any higher than B, and personally I would rank it lower if I had final say.

Thank you to greilmercenary9 for helping me word this properly, I’m not the best with long form posts lmao

 

[Omastar68]

I'm curious how Gengar made A rank, it was good before, not great. I've had lots of trouble, but I think never vs a Gengar, though I've seen it a bit.

 

[Theorymon]

I'm curious how Gengar made A rank, it was good before, not great. I've had lots of trouble, but I think never vs a Gengar, though I've seen it a bit.

So to explain Gengar, Encore really did wonders for it this gen. Not only is it a fast Encore user, but that in combination with Destiny Bond is especially deadly. If a mon attacks, Sash Gengar is pretty free to use Destiny Bond the next turn. If they switch in a faster threat, Gengar's Destiny Bond is active until it moves again. Gengar also has some pretty nasty support moves like Thunder Wave.

When the VR list gets more expanded, I think it'd fit into A-. Iron Bundle and Scream Tail might give it some competition next season too, but still: even if Gengar isn't super common, that combination of Encore and Destiny Bond makes it a far bigger threat than it seems on paper!

 

[Omastar68]

thanks for explaining. Those should be all my questions about what's here.