Resource SV BSS Viability Rankings (Regulation G)

Xd pawmot is below Ninetails-K LOL. The weak kind. So I take back my complaint, and just want to thank everyone who gets a say for keeping Drifblim at C despite usage data. It actually got really low, though I'm inclined to say it shouldn't have.
 
Idk if it's much better than B rank, but shouldn't it generally be a better pick than Vikavolt? Not sure why that's above it. Webs are cool I guess, on something that has stats.
 
Idk if it's much better than B rank, but shouldn't it generally be a better pick than Vikavolt? Not sure why that's above it. Webs are cool I guess, on something that has stats.
I thought the same thing after seeing Vikavolt usage in HOME when the DLC dropped. I would imagine Levitate + super STAB mono electric typing with Tera is the main reason. Its a shame its ass tier slow.
 
If blissey is in B-, even now, it gives me confidence I can get Frosmoth to c-.

I think the special bulk is just so amazing, with plenty of SE attacks bouncing off AV/boosted ones. It's a great user of Tera too, easily taking fire moves when not 4x weak(although regular flutter has 2% to 2hko with fire vs my set lol.) Physically it suffers, but so does the somewhat slower and much less offensive blissey. You can still live some big hits, mine at full takes pao non boosting item crunch, and they won't do icicle crash to try to flinch 1st, cause resist. Stuff Frosmoth absolutely won't take like ogerpon, urshifu, and already boosted DNite are huge threats to blissey anyhow.

Speaking of DNite, Ice Beam can ohko through scale if they switch in(looking for any other type of attack,) or don't Tera. Taking out one of the top mons is major, esp if it's on the switch, not after eating a big hit(though that's decent too.) This is combined with having a generally good flutter match up, and taking gholdengo easily with the(IMO) suggested Tera of ground. Thats on top of the pao thing, so to some extent it's good vs 4 top mons, who were previously top 4. Flutter will also often have t wave apparently, and use a t on something that sponges hits like this. There ground does double duty. It also resist rock, which is what landog should be doing since ground is a resist and rock usually a weakness. Then they get a ice beam. Ofc they can Tera too but that's everyone, and many things don't appreciate 2x resisted hits from this moth, still. Ting lu dislikes both STAB, and can even die (did this to phys def with ice tera expert belt, though it's a roll. Still you can go specs...though I like ground best for steels.) Then there's a high usage Mon that is good fully countered, iron bundle. With its speed and freeze dry, not much else counters it. Even checks are rare, so esp if bundle ever takes even more usage, this moth should go up. Frosmoth's ground Tera totally flips the chi yi match up on its head too, they die to SE tera blast, and overheat or w/e is much more tolerable.

Ice and ground are great together, I'm pretty sure, but the other two moves are not to be underestimated. I use bug buzz(gets that nasty Espathea through sub/nearly at their +1, as well as cress mainly,) and giga drain(healing, gets say water tera iron moth when its going for your ground type, and is crucial healing on something so specially fat, while sealing the deal on bundle.) QD I found really hard to use(still not the fastest, esp if you want any bulk and I do,) and even to fit. But frosmoth runs av well. AV can also mess up some trick scarfers, while frosmoth can use scarf to some effect if it has to.

Besides those match ups I started with, this moth is amazing with Ursa BM, Zapdos(unless an odd Tera fly tera blast, though I'd Tera too so lol,) Garg terad, sometimes dozo, rilla, and rotom w for a few. Heatran will often grass Tera, that dies. Or else it will probably take ground Tera blast. Needless to say the attacks do little if not on the base type. Frosmoth also has options for moves, and I'll edit in calcs when on PC. They get crazy, like vs bundle and Greninja for ex. Idk why Im just saying C-, besides that it's an easy starting point as the lowest.

I will say frosmoth has some gaps in coverage, and the bulk on physical side too can give a lot of issues with some top stuff, like the newly high Scizor. That right there is why I got rid of olan ninetails, despite putting snow and veil. Annihilate seems to be getting scarce in my experience/memory, but in no way are boosted rage fists ok on 70/65 or w/e it was. But blissey, who I really think is a pretty clean comparison, isn't much better thanks to base 10 def. Also, frosmoth has/had at least one notable finish mentioned here before. I can't recall if it's a huge selling point, but in the past stuff got a place for a high ladder placement. If nothing else might see some activity around here, kinda dead:|

EDIT:
252 SpA Iron Bundle Hydro Pump vs. 60 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ice Scales Frosmoth: 33-39 (21.5 - 25.4%) -- 1% chance to 4HKO

252 SpA Iron Bundle Hydro Pump vs. 60 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ice Scales Tera Ground Frosmoth: 67-79 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- 7.8% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Frosmoth Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Bundle: 136-162 (103.8 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Frosmoth Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 168-198 (101.2 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Frosmoth Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Wo-Chien: 196-232 (102 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Frosmoth Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 146-174 (55.7 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

etc.


Also, while the usage is quite low, it beats out several ranked mons.
 
Last edited:

Psynergy

Triumph and Glory
is a Site Content Manageris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Battle Stadium Head
Update time. Ultimately I think the general makeup of the VR hasn't changed dramatically from the beginning of Regulation E to now, but there's a decent pool of changes made this time around. Nothing new is being added this time though, Munkidori and Frosmoth were discussed but reception to them was mostly lukewarm and they lacked any notable finishes last month. The big thing we're seeing this month is that new toy syndrome hit hard because a lot of new/returning Pokemon that saw high usage through the end of last month dropped like a rock outside of Ursaluna-Bloodmoon and Ogerpon. Pokemon like Vikavolt, Empoleon, and Gliscor certainly still saw notable finishes but it's definitely not what their usage last month would've suggested. People always doubted Milotic though and it looks like that doubt was well-founded.

We also see a few past season staples climbing in usage again though, Glimmora, Breloom, and Hippowdon all saw a resurgence last season. Scream Tail is a new rise though that was always on the list but always felt like it lacked something in my eyes to be particularly interesting. The DLC did exactly that for it though with Misty Explosion, giving it the ability to fill the role of a utility support and notably enable a Trick Room mode for Bloodmoon Ursaluna. Meanwhile Single Strike Urshifu and Roaring Moon continue to see consistent usage and strong results.

Perhaps the most notable shift though is Chien-Pao dropping slightly to S- rank. I don't think any of us believes that Chien-Pao is any less of a menace than before though, the main argument for dropping it is more that the the Pokemon in S are so much more flexible and diverse than it. I'd honestly consider going a step further and dropping Rapid Strike to S- as well simply because Dragonite and Flutter Mane are just in a league of their own, but that's something we can open to discussion because maybe I'm the only one that sees it this way. With that, I'll leave things there for now, the summary of changes can be seen below.

Drops:
:Chien-Pao: Drop from S to S-
:Rillaboom: Drop from A- to B+
:Gliscor: Drop from A- to B+
:Empoleon: Drop from A- to B
:Kommo-o: Drop from B+ to B
:vikavolt: Drop from B+ to B
:Sinistcha: Drop from B+ to B
:Milotic: Drop from B+ to B-
:Okidogi: Drop from B to B-

Rises:
:Urshifu:(Single) Rise from A to A+
:Roaring-Moon: Rise from A- to A
:Glimmora: Rise from B+ to A
:Breloom: Rise from B+ to A-
:Hippowdon: Rise from B to A-
:Scream-Tail: Rise from C to B-
 
Last edited:
Is it ok to ask why something is not here, even if I'm not going to nominate it?
I dont think theres anything wrong with asking but before that remember that if something isnt ranked that doesnt mean it cant perform under the current metagame, but theres no enough usage to judge, a lot of talk about these underused mons are just theorycrafting, which is hard to put in a ranking list before testing it if they have some value.

Another big factor with a lot of unranked mons is that theyre just Pokemon that get outclassed by other mons on this list, a quick example can be Tatsugiri, is a pokemon that doesnt see usage in singles, his ability storm drain is pretty useful cuz it checks Urshifu Rapid Strike spamming surging strikes but considering theres other dragons in store like Dragonite (multiscale + super effective stab against it), H-Goodra (shell armor) and even Dragapult (will o wisp and ghost typing) that can check Urshifu but can also do more than just that, theres no reason to use Tatsugiri other than because you like it.
 
I dont think theres anything wrong with asking but before that remember that if something isnt ranked that doesnt mean it cant perform under the current metagame, but theres no enough usage to judge, a lot of talk about these underused mons are just theorycrafting, which is hard to put in a ranking list before testing it if they have some value.

Another big factor with a lot of unranked mons is that theyre just Pokemon that get outclassed by other mons on this list, a quick example can be Tatsugiri, is a pokemon that doesnt see usage in singles, his ability storm drain is pretty useful cuz it checks Urshifu Rapid Strike spamming surging strikes but considering theres other dragons in store like Dragonite (multiscale + super effective stab against it), H-Goodra (shell armor) and even Dragapult (will o wisp and ghost typing) that can check Urshifu but can also do more than just that, theres no reason to use Tatsugiri other than because you like it.
Ok. The 2 I'm curious about are Chandelure(was ranked last gen, tera seems fairly kind to it idk. Good into oger-h w/o knock off. Kinda bad vs DNIite, Urshifus, etc, so I can see it going either way. Flash Fire is pretty neat, as are the other 2 abilities even,) and Krookodile(Seems ok, stat-wise good HP, Atk, fair Spe. W/ Intimidate and the HP makes good def, SpD is dubious, bu AV is not unuseable imo unless SR. I have it for Counter mainly, so it can take a CC and use that w/ intimidate. Also kinda tough on DNite what I needed.) Then also maybe Noivern(was ranked before, though maybe 7 only, not 8 idk. Infiltrator is good, or rely on just Boomburst for Sub and frisk 'em, maybe for trick choice.)
 

DerpySuX

I miss the rage
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Contributor
Moderator
A good thing to remember about the VR is that we tend to rank things that have proven to be at some level of viability in the metagame. Theoretical viability can be discussed and is sometimes taken into account but generally we try to only rank stuff that has proven results in what it does. It’s easier to both maintain and digest if we stick to what is proven.
 
A good thing to remember about the VR is that we tend to rank things that have proven to be at some level of viability in the metagame. Theoretical viability can be discussed and is sometimes taken into account but generally we try to only rank stuff that has proven results in what it does. It’s easier to both maintain and digest if we stick to what is proven.
That's a great point. We don't copy usage data completely ofc, but it's the main guidelines I guess

With that in mind chandelure is above regieleki by one spot. Could be a phase. If it continues or increases, I vote put chandy on or ditch leki. Both would be cool too. From using them I feel more strongly that leki is bad now, rather than that chandy is good. In fact, despite me running the latter in a gen or two prior, I asked to drop it. It fills a niche that I needed, and now mAybe a different one that I need, but it's kinda small or idk it could be.

It's hard to get new stuff put on. I think it's easier to scrutinize what's here and drop it out/some. Like gothitelle has petite usage, though iirc the stats are ok and the ability horrifying.
 
I've got some potential shifts to share, but I think for this particular round a little more context is needed.

First off, the drops and rises I am advocating for thin out the higher tiers a bit more. Part of this is because I think that the meta for this regulation has become more centralized: the gap between the top and bottom has widened considerably. Looking at how we have the tiers set up right now, I think that gap roughly translates to the space between the A and B tiers. There is still a lot of creativity in the teams dominating high ladder, but this is translating more to how Terastallization is utilized on top picks than how niche mons are being represented.

For that reason, ranking things in B tier at this point feels a lot more foggy. Besides general usage, I also based whether or not to shift something on:
  • How does the mon interact with S tier threats?
  • For lesser mons, is their niche relevant and/or unique?
That out of the way, here are my proposed shifts:

:urshifu-rapid-strike: (Rapid) Drop from S+ to S

This shift is more motivated by the fact that Flutter Mane and Dragonite are just in a league of their own when it comes to meta-defining traits, set variety and teambuilding pressure. Urshifu-R is still amazing, but it doesn't cause nearly the fits that Mane and Dragonite cause across the board. This change was originally proposed by Psynergy, and I agree with it.

:baxcalibur: Drop from A to B+
:heatran: Drop from A- to B+

These two are a bit of an anomaly because they sit in or just outside of the top 30 in usage. The problem here is that their high ladder usage has effectively collapsed.

Heatran has been overtaken by Hearthflame as the premier Steel-killer, not to mention Hearthflame's Mold Breaker let its counter Heatran. Even as a more defensive switch-in to something like Flutter Mane, it does not like the trend of bulky T-Wave Mane and cannot cushion those nearly as well.

Baxcalibur had some early hype as a sweeping complement to Ninetales-A, but that has not lasted. Ninetales-A continues to see strong usage but there are simply better things out there to pair with it than going double Ice-type. It's been usurped in the sense that its niche as a bulky Snow sweeper just wasn't that incredible to begin with. It did get Scale Shot, but top dogs Dragonite, Roaring Moon and Garchomp have simply done it better.

Given their usage is still relatively high, I think B+ is appropriate.

:ogerpon-cornerstone: Drop from A to A-

Wellspring has found a niche as a stall killer and decent Bloodmoon check, but Cornerstone's niche as a Sturdy face-to-face mon hasn't been as in demand. It doesn't help that it has to directly compete with Hearthflame and Wellspring for usage. I think its toolset is still valid in such a face-to-face dominant meta, but a small drop is fitting here given these facts and its high ladder usage.

:cresselia: Drop from A- to B+
:scream-tail: Rise from B- to B+

Putting these two together because their most dominant niches are shared: Trick Room.

Cresselia usage has actually taken a significant dip, while Scream Tail has been rising since Season 11. I don't think I'd want to drop Cresselia farther than B+, but that's why I'm also raising Scream Tail multiple levels since it actually has higher usage over Cresselia. For now, put them on the same level.

:gliscor: Drop from B+ to B

Taunt Mane, Scale Shot Dragonite, Surging Strikes Urshifu, Hyper Voice Bloodmoon... this thing has an interesting niche, but its one that can get countered near effortlessly by typical high ladder play.

:ogerpon: Drop from B+ to B

Teal Mask had some usage in Season 11 but has fallen off of what little it had when I look at Season 12. Like Cornerstone its a victim of sharing the same slot as the other masks, but I still think the drop is justified given how much lower used it is compared to the other three. No top finishes for Season 12 that I saw either.

:empoleon: Drop from B to B-

There are simply better users of SR and Yawn, and it just doesn't have the tools to go head-to-head with the top dogs with any consistency. Another mon whose usage has collapsed towards the 70th to 80th usage range.

:vikavolt: Drop from B to B-

The Webs niche just hasn't been good and it has also fallen substantially in usage. Even though it is immune to paralysis, it just doesn't have many killer matchups... if it has any at all.

:roaring-moon: Rise from A to A+

Top 10 in usage now. In short, its got great late-game cleaning potential and has enough offensive and utility options that it can keep you guessing. Thing really got Knock Off and never looked back, huh?

:azumarill: Rise from B to B+

A bit of an anomaly, but apparently its seeing some usage, and emphasis on "some." Belly Drum is still niche and the right support is needed, but an Azumarill with Stealth Rock down can hit some nice knockouts against the likes of Ogerpon-H, Chien-Pao and Bloodmoon. Still niche, but its overall usage is hard to ignore so a small bump seems appropriate.

:amoonguss: Rise from C+ to B

Amoonguss is another old staple that apparently refuses to die. Not much has changed here: Spore, Leaf Storm Eject Pack and Foul Play are all still excellent, and Foul Play in particular is what prevents it from becoming total setup bait against Ogerpon-H (assuming it is willing to Tera.) Overall usage is still middling but its got some results at higher ladder, so it needs a big boost.

:tyranitar: Rise from UR to C+

Yeah, so... what does this thing do? I really don't know. It certainly hasn't been hanging around high ladder much. But I can tell you its in the top 50 usage! Probably getting carried by old popularity a bit like Heatran and Bax were. But honestly, this just boils down to the fact that its been in the top 50 usage for the last two seasons. That's kinda hard to ignore now that I see it, so... let's just throw it a bone, shall we?
 
I've got some potential shifts to share, but I think for this particular round a little more context is needed.

First off, the drops and rises I am advocating for thin out the higher tiers a bit more. Part of this is because I think that the meta for this regulation has become more centralized: the gap between the top and bottom has widened considerably. Looking at how we have the tiers set up right now, I think that gap roughly translates to the space between the A and B tiers. There is still a lot of creativity in the teams dominating high ladder, but this is translating more to how Terastallization is utilized on top picks than how niche mons are being represented.

For that reason, ranking things in B tier at this point feels a lot more foggy. Besides general usage, I also based whether or not to shift something on:
  • How does the mon interact with S tier threats?
  • For lesser mons, is their niche relevant and/or unique?
That out of the way, here are my proposed shifts:

:urshifu-rapid-strike: (Rapid) Drop from S+ to S

This shift is more motivated by the fact that Flutter Mane and Dragonite are just in a league of their own when it comes to meta-defining traits, set variety and teambuilding pressure. Urshifu-R is still amazing, but it doesn't cause nearly the fits that Mane and Dragonite cause across the board. This change was originally proposed by Psynergy, and I agree with it.

:baxcalibur: Drop from A to B+
:heatran: Drop from A- to B+

These two are a bit of an anomaly because they sit in or just outside of the top 30 in usage. The problem here is that their high ladder usage has effectively collapsed.

Heatran has been overtaken by Hearthflame as the premier Steel-killer, not to mention Hearthflame's Mold Breaker let its counter Heatran. Even as a more defensive switch-in to something like Flutter Mane, it does not like the trend of bulky T-Wave Mane and cannot cushion those nearly as well.

Baxcalibur had some early hype as a sweeping complement to Ninetales-A, but that has not lasted. Ninetales-A continues to see strong usage but there are simply better things out there to pair with it than going double Ice-type. It's been usurped in the sense that its niche as a bulky Snow sweeper just wasn't that incredible to begin with. It did get Scale Shot, but top dogs Dragonite, Roaring Moon and Garchomp have simply done it better.

Given their usage is still relatively high, I think B+ is appropriate.

:ogerpon-cornerstone: Drop from A to A-

Wellspring has found a niche as a stall killer and decent Bloodmoon check, but Cornerstone's niche as a Sturdy face-to-face mon hasn't been as in demand. It doesn't help that it has to directly compete with Hearthflame and Wellspring for usage. I think its toolset is still valid in such a face-to-face dominant meta, but a small drop is fitting here given these facts and its high ladder usage.

:cresselia: Drop from A- to B+
:scream-tail: Rise from B- to B+

Putting these two together because their most dominant niches are shared: Trick Room.

Cresselia usage has actually taken a significant dip, while Scream Tail has been rising since Season 11. I don't think I'd want to drop Cresselia farther than B+, but that's why I'm also raising Scream Tail multiple levels since it actually has higher usage over Cresselia. For now, put them on the same level.

:gliscor: Drop from B+ to B

Taunt Mane, Scale Shot Dragonite, Surging Strikes Urshifu, Hyper Voice Bloodmoon... this thing has an interesting niche, but its one that can get countered near effortlessly by typical high ladder play.

:ogerpon: Drop from B+ to B

Teal Mask had some usage in Season 11 but has fallen off of what little it had when I look at Season 12. Like Cornerstone its a victim of sharing the same slot as the other masks, but I still think the drop is justified given how much lower used it is compared to the other three. No top finishes for Season 12 that I saw either.

:empoleon: Drop from B to B-

There are simply better users of SR and Yawn, and it just doesn't have the tools to go head-to-head with the top dogs with any consistency. Another mon whose usage has collapsed towards the 70th to 80th usage range.

:vikavolt: Drop from B to B-

The Webs niche just hasn't been good and it has also fallen substantially in usage. Even though it is immune to paralysis, it just doesn't have many killer matchups... if it has any at all.

:roaring-moon: Rise from A to A+

Top 10 in usage now. In short, its got great late-game cleaning potential and has enough offensive and utility options that it can keep you guessing. Thing really got Knock Off and never looked back, huh?

:azumarill: Rise from B to B+

A bit of an anomaly, but apparently its seeing some usage, and emphasis on "some." Belly Drum is still niche and the right support is needed, but an Azumarill with Stealth Rock down can hit some nice knockouts against the likes of Ogerpon-H, Chien-Pao and Bloodmoon. Still niche, but its overall usage is hard to ignore so a small bump seems appropriate.

:amoonguss: Rise from C+ to B

Amoonguss is another old staple that apparently refuses to die. Not much has changed here: Spore, Leaf Storm Eject Pack and Foul Play are all still excellent, and Foul Play in particular is what prevents it from becoming total setup bait against Ogerpon-H (assuming it is willing to Tera.) Overall usage is still middling but its got some results at higher ladder, so it needs a big boost.

:tyranitar: Rise from UR to C+

Yeah, so... what does this thing do? I really don't know. It certainly hasn't been hanging around high ladder much. But I can tell you its in the top 50 usage! Probably getting carried by old popularity a bit like Heatran and Bax were. But honestly, this just boils down to the fact that its been in the top 50 usage for the last two seasons. That's kinda hard to ignore now that I see it, so... let's just throw it a bone, shall we?
On ttar it: denies a tales veil setup, sets up spD scenario for stone mask to sweep, sets rocks, and tanks luna bm.
 
I've seen less Gliscor too. As for TTar, I've been told not to try to rank based on usage alone. Like if it HAS usage like that then it's sorta inevitable, but if you don't believe it has much to offer, or know what that may be, it's ok to leave it to others. Um but I fully agree w/ the above.

Edit: but if we are just talking usage, frosmoth is above spectrier, female basc, uxie, sandy shocks, and sableye.

Frosmoth can take some grueling special hits pretty well. I'm positive+2 Tera timid flutter did 70 with mooonblast, I'm 60/204(edit lol: 60/140) bulk on that side and av, but still not even calm nature. As a specially bulky ice type, this would give regice a run for its money if it was allowed. And many know how I was about that lol. This just hits harder and even faster, at the cost of severe phys bulk. But that was never the forte. Iirc it was voted on as a no, could someone tell me what was said? It seems like a perspective thing given the lopsided defenses. Like there is no realistic negative perspective with some mons. With this it has legit no use vs some things(unless you get them on the switch lol, got a terad already oger h with my Tera blast.) But even then you COULD sash for physical, and tank the special albeit without a useful item...

2nd edit:
252 SpA Frosmoth Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: 104-126 (55 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Frosmoth Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: 104-126 (47.2 - 57.2%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
(am modest, so even better)
252+ SpA Tera Normal Ursaluna-Bloodmoon Blood Moon vs. 60 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Ice Scales Frosmoth: 56-67 (36.6 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Ursaluna-Bloodmoon Blood Moon vs. 60 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Ice Scales Frosmoth: 42-50 (27.4 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252 SpA Flutter Mane Mystical Fire vs. 60 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Ice Scales Frosmoth: 56-68 (36.6 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Flutter Mane Psyshock vs. 60 HP / 0 Def Ice Scales Tera Ground Frosmoth: 35-42 (22.8 - 27.4%) -- 59.2% chance to 4HKO

252 SpA Tera Fairy Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 60 HP / 140 SpD Assault Vest Ice Scales Frosmoth: 35-42 (22.8 - 27.4%) -- 59.2% chance to 4HKO


some nice calcs vs the 2 main special things.
 
Last edited:

Psynergy

Triumph and Glory
is a Site Content Manageris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Battle Stadium Head
Hi, last update before the DLC drops and inevitably shakes things up because I don't trust Game Freak to not accidentally allow the new Tera type to be legal day 1. Ultimately there wasn't a whole lot of discussion with the new DLC being on everyone's minds, but Photon's post more or less laid the groundwork for the current update so honestly I don't think there's much that needs to be said that he hasn't already proposed.

Tyranitar is actually going to B- just because the aforementioned matchups against Alolan Ninetales and Ursaluna-BM are a tad better than just C+ I think. Additionally Iron Hands is going up to B+ as recent placements have highlighted how useful it is having a physically bulky Pokemon that isn't weak to Ogerpon or Chien-Pao, particularly with Drain Punch in the mix. Sylveon is also rejoining the list in the C ranks as yet another low rank Pokemon that is used for its matchup into Ursaluna-BM, and one high ranking team in particular noted its synergy with the aforementioned Iron Hands.

Frosmoth is also joining the list, this one actually had a mention in discussion due to a top 100 finish again because MAGICO made it work again. This ultimately highlighted to me that if we're ranking Maushold and Polteageist largely because of one guy getting high ranking finishes with them, Frosmoth is worth of a rank just as much as the mice. The reason it hadn't been ranked before is because Frosmoth doesn't make the cut every month and MAGICO himself says it's more of a pet pick that doesn't always see a lot of use, so none of us were particularly convinced to rank it in the past. However, the matchup against Iron Bundle is certainly a point in its favor so I think that is worth at least a mention, I favor C over C- for that reason alone.


One last thing I want to point out before we possibly get ready for the new DLC Pokemon though. As Photon pointed out, this Regulation E metagame has been more centralized than previous ones, and I wouldn't be surprised to see the next ruleset follow similarly. As a result, I think it becomes more important that we're mindful nominations for Pokemon that are less relevant threats. Being perfectly honest, I like recognizing the usefulness of less common Pokemon but naturally we are less concerned about whether Palafin is C or C+ than we are about whether Chi-Yu is A+ or A. The goal of the VR is ultimately to present a picture of what we think the metagame looks like, and to that end we're obviously going to give more thought to the stuff at the top than random nichemons at the bottom.

This is not me saying to stop nominating these low usage Pokemon because to me, one of the strengths of BSS is how conducive the format is towards making less meta stuff work. But don't be surprised if a nom for a low usage Pokemon doesn't make the cut. That doesn't mean we don't think it's worth consideration, it just means we didn't have enough of an opinion to discuss or rank it.

Drops:
:urshifu: (Rapid) Drop from S to S-
:baxcalibur: Drop from A to B+
:heatran: Drop from A- to B+
:ogerpon-cornerstone: Drop from A to A-
:cresselia: Drop from A- to B+
:gliscor: Drop from B+ to B
:ogerpon: Drop from B+ to B
:empoleon: Drop from B to B-
:vikavolt: Drop from B to B-

Rises:
:scream-tail: Rise from B- to B+
:roaring-moon: Rise from A to A+
:azumarill: Rise from B to B+
:amoonguss: Rise from C+ to B
:iron-hands: Rise from B- to B+
:tyranitar: Rise from UR to B-
:sylveon: Rise from UR to C+
:frosmoth: Rise from UR to C
 
Last edited:
Hi, last update before the DLC drops and inevitably shakes things up because I don't trust Game Freak to not accidentally allow the new Tera type to be legal day 1. Ultimately there wasn't a whole lot of discussion with the new DLC being on everyone's minds, but Photon's post more or less laid the groundwork for the current update so honestly I don't think there's much that needs to be said that he hasn't already proposed.

Tyranitar is actually going to B- just because the aforementioned matchups against Alolan Ninetales and Ursaluna-BM are a tad better than just C+ I think. Additionally Iron Hands is going up to B+ as recent placements have highlighted how useful it is having a physically bulky Pokemon that isn't weak to Ogerpon or Chien-Pao, particularly with Drain Punch in the mix. Sylveon is also rejoining the list in the C ranks as yet another low rank Pokemon that is used for its matchup into Ursaluna-BM, and one high ranking team in particular noted its synergy with the aforementioned Iron Hands.

Frosmoth is also joining the list, this one actually had a mention in discussion due to a top 100 finish again because MAGICO made it work again. This ultimately highlighted to me that if we're ranking Maushold and Polteageist largely because of one guy getting high ranking finishes with them, Frosmoth is worth of a rank just as much as the mice. The reason it hadn't been ranked before is because Frosmoth doesn't make the cut every month and MAGICO himself says it's more of a pet pick that doesn't always see a lot of use, so none of us were particularly convinced to rank it in the past. However, the matchup against Iron Bundle is certainly a point in its favor so I think that is worth at least a mention, I favor C over C- for that reason alone.


One last thing I want to point out before we possibly get ready for the new DLC Pokemon though. As Photon pointed out, this Regulation E metagame has been more centralized than previous ones, and I wouldn't be surprised to see the next ruleset follow similarly. As a result, I think it becomes more important that we're mindful nominations for Pokemon that are less relevant threats. Being perfectly honest, I like recognizing the usefulness of less common Pokemon but naturally we are less concerned about whether Palafin is C or C+ than we are about whether Chi-Yu is A+ or A. The goal of the VR is ultimately to present a picture of what we think the metagame looks like, and to that end we're obviously going to give more thought to the stuff at the top than random nichemons at the bottom.

This is not me saying to stop nominating these low usage Pokemon because to me, one of the strengths of BSS is how conducive the format is towards making less meta stuff work. But don't be surprised if a nom for a low usage Pokemon doesn't make the cut. That doesn't mean we don't think it's worth consideration, it just means we didn't have enough of an opinion to discuss or rank it.

Drops:
:urshifu: (Rapid) Drop from S to S-
:baxcalibur: Drop from A to B+
:heatran: Drop from A- to B+
:ogerpon-cornerstone: Drop from A to A-
:cresselia: Drop from A- to B+
:gliscor: Drop from B+ to B
:ogerpon: Drop from B+ to B
:empoleon: Drop from B to B-
:vikavolt: Drop from B to B-

Rises:
:scream-tail: Rise from B- to B+
:roaring-moon: Rise from A to A+
:azumarill: Rise from B to B+
:amoonguss: Rise from C+ to B
:iron-hands: Rise from B- to B+
:tyranitar: Rise from UR to B-
:sylveon: Rise from UR to C+
:frosmoth: Rise from UR to C
wow ty mr. I love my Frosmoth, and will work hard to make her as good or better as the other guy's. Maybe more than C can come of this. I agree w/ all, though from own use wary of rising Azu but idk. At this time not completely willing to nom any of my other mons...well. Idk, tbh Mandibuzz is kinda awesome too. Really though I'm happy just to see activity, and more to get one mon. Maybe people oughta think about Mandi, but it's np for me either way.

EDIT: What of Munkidori too? Don't even use tbh, but did briefly and at least 1 other person was for it. Probably w/ Fez in rank, it seems lesser than Okidogi too.

Also, surprised that person says he brings moth little. I bring moth almost all of the time I see BM, half-ish the time for Flutter, often fro Bundle etc. I wonder if he ground tera...any other and I can totally see benching her >50%.
 
Last edited:

Psynergy

Triumph and Glory
is a Site Content Manageris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Battle Stadium Head
Update time, the VR is now updated for Regulation F. If you want to see where Regulation E ended up there is a link to an archive thread in the OP, otherwise we're all in Regulation F now. We did some cleanup in the C tier so the list is a little bit more condensed, but there are a lot of new Pokemon that are seeing used right now so it's hard to go over each and every single one of them. There's been some dialing back on how we've handled C tier so we're not going to be quite as liberal with throwing new Pokemon into the ranks going forward because it makes managing it more difficult. Often times we simply don't pay attention to updating C rank specifically because "we'll worry about it later" and then don't actually act on that, which eventually floods the ranks begging the question of it it was worth ranking them to begin with.

Realistically we might still remove some stuff still sitting in C tier but we kept them for now since they have some level of usage. Some things like Avalugg and Espathra will obviously still stay, but we'll be scrutinizing more closely whether or not these Pokemon have relevant niche in the metagame. This doesn't mean you can't nominate new things, if there's something with a serious relevant niche that you don't see then you are highly encouraged to bring it up. On the flip side, the purpose of the VR is not to get your favorite Pokemon added to the list, it's to paint a representative picture of what the metagame looks like at the moment. If you think Clefable is relevant enough to the metagame to have it ranked then by all means please nominate it, but don't try to have a Pokemon ranked just because it's a favorite.


For the most part it appears that the best of the best have not changed dramatically, Flutter Mane benefited from Stellar Tera and Hearthflame Ogerpon took a slight bump down due to the massive influx of other good physical fire types to compete with it. The biggest changes will be in the A tier range with all the returning starters and legends flooding the ranks, but there's a few new faces like Archaludon and Gouging Fire.

Personally I'm unconvinced by some of our placements this time around, Dondozo and Breloom in particular feel more B than B+ to me and as mentioned previously we can probably further remove some stuff from C tiers, but the first season is almost over at this point so hopefully we'll be able to take another look at things sooner rather than later.

Rises
Landorus-Therian: A to A+
Ogerpon-Wellspring: A to A+
Scizor: A to A+

Meowscarada: B to B+

Pelipper: C+ to B
Torkoal: C+ to B+

Drops
Ogerpon-Hearthflame: S- to A+

Chi-Yu: A+ to A
Garganacl: A+ to A-
Iron Bundle: A+ to A
Ting-Lu: A+ to A

Dragapult: A to B
Garchomp: A to B+
Glimmora: A to A-
Ninetales-Alola: A to A-
Toxapex: A to B+

Annihilape: A- to B+
Basculegion-M: A- to B+
Breloom: A- to B
Dondozo: A- to B
Mimikyu: A- to B
Rotom-W: A- to B-

Azumaril: B+ to B-
Baxcalibur: B+ to B-
Corviknight: B+ to B-
Cresselia: B+ to B-
Goodra-Hisui: B+ to B-
Heatran: B+ to B
Iron Hands: B+ to B-
Magnezone: B+ to B-
Rillaboom: B+ to B
Scream Tail: B+ to C+
Ursaluna: B+ to B-
Zapdos: B+ to B

Amoonguss: B to B-
Clodsire: B to B-
Gliscor: B to C+
Iron Valiant: B to B-
Kingambit: B to B-
Kommo-o: B to C
Sinistcha: B to C-
Volcarona: B to B-
Wo-Chien: B to C+

Alomomola: B- to C+
Arcanine-Hisui: B- to C
Blissey: B- to C+
Ceruledge: B- to UR
Chansey: B- to UR
Clefable: B- to UR
Empoleon: B- to C+
Espathra: B- to C
Grimmsnarl: B- to C+
Hydreigon: B- to C
Kleavor: B- to C+
Milotic: B- to UR
Okidogi: B- to C
Snorlax: B- to UR
Tyranitar: B- to C+
Umbreon: B- to UR
Vikavolt: B- to C-

Arcanine: C+ to UR
Cloyster: C+ to UR
Fezandipiti: C+ to C
Great Tusk: C+ to C
Gyarados: C+ to UR
Pawmot: C+ to C
Tauros-Fire: C+ to UR
Thundurus-Therian: C+ to C
Zoroark-Hisui: C+ to C

Drifblim: C to UR
Frosmoth: C to UR
Hatterene: C to UR
Orthworm: C to UR
Palafin: C to C-
Quaquaval: C to UR
Regieleki: C to UR
Sandy Shocks: C to UR

Basculegion-F: C- to UR
Brute Bonnet: C- to UR
Gothitelle: C- to UR
Iron Treads: C- to UR
Polteageist: C- to UR
Samurott-Hisui: C- to UR
Uxie: C- to UR

New
Porygon2: A+ or A
Primarina: A
Archaludon: A
Latios: A
Incineroar: A-
Gouging Fire: A
Swampert: A-
Serperior: A-
Latias: A-
Metagross: A-
Suicune: A-
Entei: A-
Excadrill: B-
Blaziken: B
Raging Bolt: B
Walking Wake: B
Araquanid: B-
Iron Crown: B-
 
I feel like Haxorus is too niche to get even C- here. It's been #149 for at least a while(looked a long time before and just now, was same both times.)

Idk cause it certainly has options, and a lot of power, but it seems like typically better dragons abound. Mold Breaker was a bigger deal before(not this gen, though idk when excactly) for Rotoms, now I'm not too sure that it's great, esp w/ oger h having it. I'm not saying they're good at all, but likely Slither Wing or even Lokix have more use for First Impression, terad or not. And while I FEEL it shouldn't be compared to DNite cause of rank disparity, DNite mignht fully outclass it unless you're like worried about Bronzong(yea idk.) The D rank has been gone for a while now, though I think this'd go there better. It's passable, but barely. Ofc, if there are high finishes w/ this that may factor, I don't keep up w/ all that tbf.

Anyways, somehow this always looks fine but better after updates so good job people. I'm sorta surprised Chansey dropped fully, but I don't disagree. It seem exceedingly rare now, or I'm blind by not seeing it in data. Will Smeargle get a place? It can be just a little scary w/ Moody, Spore, etc. I feel like i could go either way, since it can do everything but does so much very poorly w/ those stats.
 

Psynergy

Triumph and Glory
is a Site Content Manageris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Battle Stadium Head
We've had some time for the meta to settle a bit so we're going ahead and updating the list now. Huge thanks to Photon for drafting up the current list because there were a lot of things to clean up and rearrange, meta trends that hadn't caught on at a broader level as well as some further cleanup down in C tier.

:archaludon: The most notable decision is Archaludon going into S- despite the skepticism people had with it at the start of the meta. Its common Stealth Rock lead setup is very effective as it is but the set diversity has really elevated Archaludon to a very top level threat. Both Sturdy and Stamina are fantastic abilities that make it very tricky to deal with every possible set with just one catch-all answer, and being able to utilize a wide array of items like Custap Berry and Power Herb gives it both the power and flexibility worthy of S- I'd say.

:raging-bolt: Raging Bolt is another top meta trend that didn't quite catch on during last month that Kiby brought to our attention and it's certainly blown up this month too, turns out being a bulky electric with unique priority move is really good in the current meta so our initial placement was definitely underselling it. :iron-crown: :sneasler: :indeedee: The combination of Iron Crown, Snealser, and Indeedee also saw strong success as well, so you can add Iron Crown to the list of new Paradox Pokemon we underestimated last month too. :hydrapple: :alomomola: Hydrapple and Alomomola also proved to be an effective defensive core last month as well so we're seeing a bit more of that too.

Meanwhile new toy syndrome for a number of other Pokemon has faded, hitting some harder than others. The likes of Entei, Suicune, and Swampert took a nosedive while Porygon2 and Latios have settled just a tad lower than we initially placed, but at the end of the day I think this meta has proven to have a strong range of viable Pokemon even among the lower ranks.

I'll leave it at that though, I only quickly covered some of the more notable changes but I'll leave further commentary to Photon and Theorymon since those two have a lot more to say.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 2)

Top