Resource SV Doubles OU Viability Rankings

Actuarily

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Art by Fangame10

Welcome to the Doubles OU Viability Ranking project, where we rank the viability of Pokemon in DOU. The floor will always be open to discussion, and after a period of time (roughly every month), the viability rankings council will vote on any of the Pokemon being discussed and post the results and reasoning here. A Pokemon moving from UR to Ranked must receive both a majority and at least 3 votes of "yes" in order to be Ranked. The rankings and tier descriptions have been assigned to describe each Pokemon's state within the metagame, and the Pokemon in each tier are listed in alphabetical order.

When making a nomination for a shift in the VR, many things can improve the quality of your post and thus the likelihood of it convincing the VR council. Calcs, reasons why the current metagame is different for the Pokemon, replays, and discussion on how the Pokemon interacts with other relevant Pokemon are all potentially solid inclusions. Additionally, you may want to discuss usage stats as part of your argument, but don't base your entire argument on the usage of a Pokemon - usage and viability are not the same thing. For examples of solid nominations from the last generation, check out this post (and the one two below it) and this post.

>>VR Council<<
These users have the ultimate say on shifts in Viability Rankings tiers. The council consists of experienced players who have different styles and perspectives to offer to the table when deciding the strength of any individual Pokemon.
:tentacool: Actuarily
:Metagross-Mega: Akaru Kokuyo
:Aipom: bage1
:Chi-Yu: eragon11145
:Salamence: MADARAAAA
:nidoking: Nido-Rus
:sableye: SMB
:ferrothorn: Yoda2798
:Iron Valiant: zee
- - - - -​
>>Tier 1<<
Pokemon that dominate a large portion of the metagame. They are either quite powerful or offer great team support, and can fit on almost any team. You can't really go wrong by using these Pokemon.
:Ogerpon-Wellspring: Ogerpon-Wellspring

>>Tier 2<<
Pokemon that are generally strong and can easily be placed on a variety of teams, but don't have the same level of prowess as the threats in Tier 1.
:Archaludon: Archaludon
:Chien-Pao: Chien-Pao
:incineroar: Incineroar
:Iron Hands: Iron Hands
:Gholdengo: Gholdengo
:Glimmora: Glimmora
:Kingambit: Kingambit
:Landorus: Landorus
:Raging Bolt: Raging Bolt
:Rillaboom: Rillaboom
:Tornadus: Tornadus

>>Tier 3<<
Pokemon that are generally strong, but less powerful than those in Tier 2 or Pokemon that require a decent amount of support or a specific team style to function well, but are defining pieces to said archetypes.
:Amoonguss: Amoonguss
:Baxcalibur: Baxcalibur
:Chi-Yu: Chi-Yu
:Diancie: Diancie
:Dragonite: Dragonite
:Landorus-Therian: Landorus-Therian
:Ninetales-Alola: Ninetales-Alola
:Ogerpon-Hearthflame: Ogerpon-Hearthflame
:Porygon2: Porygon2
:Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: Ursaluna-Bloodmoon
:Volcanion: Volcanion

>>Tier 4<<
This tier contains either Pokemon that have broad applications on a variety of teams, but are simply less effective than those in higher tiers, or are only particularly useful for certain team styles.
:Arcanine-Hisui: Arcanine-Hisui
:entei: Entei
:Farigiraf: Farigiraf
:Gouging Fire: Gouging Fire
:Heatran: Heatran
:Indeedee-F: Indeedee-F
:Iron Crown: Iron Crown
:kommo-o: Kommo-o
:Kyurem: Kyurem
:mew: Mew
:Moltres-Galar: Moltres-Galar
:Pelipper: Pelipper
:Sinistcha: Sinistcha
:tyranitar: Tyranitar
:Torkoal: Torkoal
:Ursaluna: Ursaluna
:Walking Wake: Walking Wake
:whimsicott: Whimsicott

>>Tier 5<<
Pokemon that, while they have a niche in the metagame, often struggle to find situations where they thrive, either because of the support required or their poor matchups.
:Basculegion-f: Basculegion-f
:Cresselia: Cresselia
:Deoxys: Deoxys
:Deoxys-Speed: Deoxys-Speed
:Dondozo: Dondozo
:Dragapult: Dragapult
:Excadrill: Excadrill
:Grimmsnarl: Grimmsnarl
:Iron Bundle: Iron Bundle
:Kingdra: Kingdra
:Latias: Latias
:Latios: Latios
:Lilligant-Hisui: Lilligant-Hisui
:Metagross: Metagross
:necrozma: Necrozma
:ogerpon-cornerstone: Ogerpon-Cornerstone
:Palafin: Palafin
:Primarina: Primarina
:Regidrago: Regidrago
:Roaring Moon: Roaring Moon
:Scream Tail: Scream Tail
:Smeargle: Smeargle
:Spectrier: Spectrier
:Ting-Lu: Ting-Lu
:terrakion: Terrakion
:Tsareena: Tsareena
:Volcarona: Volcarona
:Zapdos-Galar: Zapdos-Galar
 
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Super early viability nominations from me, all unordered and just based off my opinions which are probably not super right


:flutter-mane: Flutter Mane
:iron-hands: Iron Hands
:gothitelle: Gothitelle
:chi-yu: Chi-Yu
:torkoal: Torkoal
:brute-bonnet: Brute Bonnet
:amoonguss: Amoonguss

:tyranitar: Tyranitar
:gyarados: Gyarados
:arcanine: Arcanine
:roaring-moon: Roaring Moon
:rotom-wash: Rotom-w
:ting-lu: Ting-Lu
:wo-chien: Wo-Chien
:iron-bundle: Iron Bundle
:baxcalibur: Baxcallibur
:azumarill: Azumarill
:slither-wing: Slither Wing
:sylveon: Sylveon
:pelipper: Pelliper
:chien-pao: Chien-Pao
:armarouge: Armarouge
:indeedee-f: Indeedee

:abomasnow: Abomasnow
:tinkaton: Tinkaton
:tsareena: Tsareena
:talonflame: Talonflame
:tauros-paldea-fire: Tauros-Fire
:tauros-paldea-water: Tauros-Water
:salamence: Salamence
:palafin-hero: Palafin
:houndstone: Houndstone
:dragapult: Dragapult
:maushold: Maushold
:gholdengo: Gholdengo
:great-tusk: Great Tusk
:kingambit: King Gambit
:annihilape: Annihlape

:dondozo: Dondozo
:tatsugiri: Tatsugiri


Will add reasoning later if it's wanted but this is just for an initial base

Yoda edit: added sprites
 
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I´d nominate Farifarig for tier 2, and Hatterene and Oranguru for either tier 2 or 3 (perhaps it might require being revised upward if and when goth gets banned) , besides Gothitelle, they are the best trick room setters in the format, and while not trapping or having Fake Out, they have very valuable unique qualities.

Farifarig: makes the whole field immune to priority moves including fake out and prankster. Normal type is actually good in the format due to the dominance of ghost STAB.

Oranguru: immune to flinch (fake out and prevents rock slide hax), and once Trick Room has been setup it can use instruct to support it´s partner (especially good with min speed torkoal). Same comment on normal typing.

Hatterene: can reflect any status move, this is mainly useful for avoiding the sleeps and taunts which are normally tasked with stopping trick room. It has worse bulk than the previous pokemon, but makes up with powerful offense of her own.

Of the three main ways to stop Trick Room besides killing the pokemon using it (Sleep, Taunt and Fake Out), they are all immune to 2 of the ways (Farifarig and Oranguru will almost always use Mental Herb or Safety Goggles), support from the already excellent Iron Hands will almost certainly guarantee a succesful TR.
 
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qsns

is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
VGCPL Champion
tierlist.png
(ordered roughly, the tiermaker did not have indeedee-f, i'm sure there are things i forgot/haven't used)


Going to quickly go over my tiers 1 & 2 with some sample sets to help some people get started with the metagame and get some discussion going! Got the tiermaker idea from VGC Twitter, if you want to make your own tier list, the link is here (warning: it has every Pokemon and is annoying). I have mostly played in games where I assumed Gothitelle was banned so most of my insight comes from that. The Tier 3 Pokemon are all still very good and worth talking about, I just didn't want to make a 10k word post + another 20 pastes.

Click on the sprites for sample sets and spreads!

Tier 1

:amoonguss:
The best Pokemon in the tier. I would say a lot of this comes from people bringing unrefined teams that don't actually have sleep answers, so expect this to become worse. However, I still don't see this dropping below Tier 1 for a while because of its incredible qualities in the current metagame. The tier is populated by a TON of dark-types and Amoonguss' defensive typing resists Fairy, Fighting and Electric, allowing it to cover Flutter Mane and Iron Hands for its partners. Access to Regenerator allows it to stay for the long haul against more defensive Pokemon that can't kill it like Ting-Lu, Tyranitar, and Garganacl - and running Clear Smog is very useful for the latter + the donbozo pairing. Also absorbs Toxic Spikes at any point in the game which is surprisingly relevant.

:flutter-mane:
Obscenely strong, natural Fake Out immunity, great typing, and matches up super well into the tier's sole good Tailwind option as well as every TR setters. This Pokemon is an elite offensive presence with very few practical weaknesses. Has a ton of set variety too between its items, coverage, and setup moves such as CM and Substitute. It obviously does not enjoy being hit with priority or any physical attacks given its paper-thin physical defense stat, but that's pretty manageable to play around (or Tera out of). IMO the most likely new Pokemon to get banned and very splashable on most team styles.

:ting-lu:
Single-handedly holds balance together. It has better bulk than Melmetal, helps your team takes special attacks on switchin, and has access to either a reliable, strong EQ using the AV set or rocks + phasing using a generic bulky set. This Pokemon stat checks the entire tier through its sheer bulk and Leftovers healing 6% a turn. It "has weaknesses" but lives every super effective hit, and often multiple, without full defensive investment.

Thanks Paint for helping with the first spread!

Tier 2

:chi-yu:
Its Scarf set hits like it's holding Specs with spread Heat Wave. It enables Flutter Mane to hit even more crazy heights. Its physical defense sucks which means it can get revenge killed by priority, but while playing against this, you need to make sure you either have a switchin at near 100%, a sack, or something on the field to deal with it NOW. The crazy part about this Pokemon is I think DOU has criminally underexplored its sets. Covert Cloak allows it to retain the very strong Protect while Specs literally OHKOs most Pokemon. I feel like this has a lot more counterplay and is less splashable than Flutter Mane so I put this lower, but dear god the numbers it puts out are dumb.

:iron-hands:
Melmetal 3.0 with Fake Out. Its bulk is obscene for a Fake Out user that can also slow pivot with Volt Switch. 140 base Attack with STAB Close Combat is also nothing to scoff at, especially in a tier with so many Dark-types - it feels like one of the first Fake Out utility Pokemon that can sufficiently threaten balance itself. Its defensive typing kind of sucks, which prevents it from coming in as much compared to another pivot like Incineroar, but make no mistake - you are not OHKOing this unboosted, and you will take a 140 Attack CC to the face in the process.

I also think this is the best ID Body Press user because of its bulk and STAB on Body Press. This feels unkillable at +2 and I have seen some VGC players have success with this set (anecdotally, it has been super insane for me).

:roaring-moon:
It's the only Tailwind setter that doesn't completely suck offensively. However, it either does not hit as hard as you want it to or demands your Tera usage (Flying Acrobatics is kind of nuts, though). Rarely a Pokemon that wins games on its own unless you have the perfect set, but can very consistently trade itself for a crucial Tailwind and 2/3 of another key Pokemon's life total.

:garchomp:
There are very few Ground immunities, or even resists, in the tier, and Clear Amulet on a Swords Dance set helps you bypass Gyarados and any other Intimidators. It has a reputation of sucking in every other DOU format but I promise it is surprisingly terrifying and hard to take down given its great bulk, speed and tendency to swap its typing using Tera. Also Scarf Chomp outspeeds and OHKOs both Flutter Mane and Chi-Yu if you Tera Ground!!!!!!

:tyranitar:
Does about the same things every generation, big bulky mon with SR and high Attack, there shouldn't be any big surprises here. It matches up extraordinarily well into Sun HO after the Gothitelle ban and should be a big reason why the style declines.

:gholdengo:
It has Steel-type Astral Barrage and 133 SpA. Honestly, its typing is quite bad into a metagame infested with Flutter Mane, Chi-Yu, and strong EQs, but you will search actively for every single opening in a battle to switch in and click the move that 2HKOs pretty bulky resists, and then you will be happy. Its ability blocks all status moves, and it usually just wants to click Make It Rain, so it is probably the best natural Amoonguss answer! Gholdengo requires a lot of investment and careful planning but it is very worth it.

:palafin-hero:
The tempo that Palafin takes to transform is a bit annoying but it has Slaking stats. Slaking stats with a base 60 priority move is really strong. It matches up extremely well into Hyper Offense because its priority actually hits Flutter Mane, unlike DNite, and pairs really well with hazard stacking to deal with fatter teams. This often wants your Tera Water if it is your main source of damage/cleanup but can function perfectly well without it. This Pokemon is not ideal into Sun teams and has other weaknesses into Pokemon like Amoonguss and Gastrodon without other support or a Grass Tera. I don't value Rain that highly but this is the reason Rain is useable.

:dragonite:
Tera Normal ESpeed bot. A lot like CB Genesect of last generation but exchanges U-turn, speed, a useful defensive typing for a stronger Espeed, better generic bulk, and an Intimidate/Fake Out immunity. It's worse, but you have a lot of room to be worse than last gen's CB Gene in a regional dex format and still be solid. Every once in a while you get away with not Teraing it but plan in the teambuilder on this being a normal type 75%+ of the time.

:glimmora:
DOU has slowly but surely realized the importance and strength of hazards over the years, and this is the most efficient Pokemon at controlling the hazard game. It has a wide swath of hazard control options, including access to all 3 damaging hazards, a Rapid Spin that poisons both enemies, and an ability that automatically sets up Toxic Spikes after taking a physical hit. I feel like most SV players already have a Glimmora Hazard Stack or Stall already loaded up in their builder, and if you aren't prepared for this team style, you will get worn down very quickly.

:torkoal:
Part of the iconic Day 1 Noob Stomper core (Flutter/Chi-Yu/Sun) but as always, HO gets worse after Day 1. I talk about this in my "Other Thoughts" section, but there are not many good Trick Room setters left after the Gothitelle ban. This hurts Torkoal a lot. Sun HO also struggles getting through the bulky Pokemon like Ting-Lu and god forbid, Tyranitar without Shadow Tagging them in. I honestly think it's weaker than T2 but didn't want to overreact to how strong I think balance currently is. The ceiling of sun teams is incredibly high given a good matchup but can thud against a prepared team.

:arcanine:
Arcanine is a great Intimidator and general support Pokemon. It is the only viable defensive Fire-type, giving it very unique spread to check Torkoal, Sylveon, Amoonguss, and others. Snarl + Wisp is incredibly hard to switch into for both balance and offensive teams alike. It is a very flexible Pokemon with a lot of item choices that can help patch up your team's weaknesses.

:gyarados:
Intimidate bot that sometimes does stuff. Bulky support sets are great at phasing with Dragon Tail and do a ton of damage with sufficient hazard support. I'm never wowed by this set but rarely regret placing it on a team as it ends up being a super consistent way to check the Ground- and Fire-types of the tier. I think Bulky DD is trash without Gothitelle and I think you need Life Orb on a more offensive set to stick damage against opposing Gyarados. I'm not sure exactly what to run for this so I've omitted it from the sample.

:Chien-pao:
Chien-Pao is a strong offensive presence that also does an excellent job of enabling the two biggest priority users, Palafin and DNite, as well as other physical attackers. Ice/Dark is a terrifying STAB combination, especially into Ting-Lu, Garchomp and other balance staples. Its great speed stat & access to priority keep it as a strong speed control option itself, regardless of its partner on the field.

Quick thoughts on other mons:
:dondozo: :tatsugiri:
I absolutely hate this combo. People are debating on ways to optimize it (Level 100 Tatsugiri vs sacking it, Tera types, movesets, etc.) but it's already very strong. Turns out a +2 omniboost on an ok mon is good. The best way to handle it is passive damage - Wo-chien Leech Seed, TSpikes, etc. but it is very metagame warping. While currently not implemented on PS, you cannot phase the Dondozo after Commander has activated, which is a big part of how I'm dealing with it. I could totally see me laughing at this ranking in a few months but for now, top of T3 seems reasonable.

:brute-bonnet:
Spicy take but I do not see a super compelling reason to use this over Amoonguss. Its ability sucks, it has a much worse defensive typing, and you'd rather click Spore with this anyways until both slots are asleep. This might be harsh because I'm so high on Amoonguss viability but I would never use this unless I was going turbo with a ton of speed control.

:sylveon:
I feel like CM Sylveon has potential but will go through similar ebbs and flows in viability that it did in XY - it is either compeltely useless or Sub CM autowins the game on the spot. The metagame has a lot of tools to deal with it, with a ton of strong physical attackers, but if the metagame trends too passively you can whip this out for an easy W. I have also been seeing a lot of success with Specs/more offensive Sylveon sets because there is a grand total of 1 steel-type I put in Tiers 1/2.

:scream-tail::farigiraf: :armarouge: :mimikyu: :bronzong: :hatterene:
Full Trick Room has been thoroughly unimpressive for me, especially without Gothitelle. I think Scream Tail and Mimikyu are actively good Pokemon (very reliable setters) and you are going to have to include a third bad setter in order to support Fullroom. I also don't think the style has too many heavy hitters outside of Torkoal and struggles to effectively deal with Amoonguss if Torkoal is dealt with.


:iron-bundle: :abomasnow:
Many VGC players have been relatively high on Hail and there is probably a way to make it work in DOU. It'll probably be worse because Screens/Aurora Veil is worse in 6v6, but Ice typing matches up super well into a lot of the top tiers. Cetitan is really bad do not use it I have tried
 
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Thanks for the very thorough analysis qsns, I will make some comments on pokemon I´ve been using extensively.

:amoonguss:
The best Pokemon in the tier. I would say a lot of this comes from people bringing unrefined teams that don't actually have sleep answers, so expect this to become worse. However, I still don't see this dropping below Tier 1 for a while because of its incredible qualities in the current metagame. The tier is populated by a TON of dark-types and Amoonguss' defensive typing resists Fairy, Fighting and Electric, allowing it to cover Flutter Mane and Iron Hands for its partners. Access to Regenerator allows it to stay for the long haul against more defensive Pokemon that can't kill it like Ting-Lu, Tyranitar, and Garganacl - and running Clear Smog is very useful for the latter + the donbozo pairing. Also absorbs Toxic Spikes at any point in the game which is surprisingly relevant.
Probably true, I´ve been using an electric terrain team as my main one which absolutely dominates Amoonguss, but even in that team I´ve felt the need to include him myself despite the anti-sinergy.

:flutter-mane:
Obscenely strong, natural Fake Out immunity, great typing, and matches up super well into the tier's sole good Tailwind option as well as every TR setters. This Pokemon is an elite offensive presence with very few practical weaknesses. Has a ton of set variety too between its items, coverage, and setup moves such as CM and Substitute. It obviously does not enjoy being hit with priority or any physical attacks given its paper-thin physical defense stat, but that's pretty manageable to play around (or Tera out of). IMO the most likely new Pokemon to get banned and very splashable on most team styles.
Ban this thing already, Iron Treads+electric terrain has been working pretty well for me until you run into a sash variant and you still lose a mon to it, the amount of reasonable counters is too small.


:iron-hands:
Melmetal 3.0 with Fake Out. Its bulk is obscene for a Fake Out user that can also slow pivot with Volt Switch. 140 base Attack with STAB Close Combat is also nothing to scoff at, especially in a tier with so many Dark-types - it feels like one of the first Fake Out utility Pokemon that can sufficiently threaten balance itself. Its defensive typing kind of sucks, which prevents it from coming in as much compared to another pivot like Incineroar, but make no mistake - you are not OHKOing this unboosted, and you will take a 140 Attack CC to the face in the process.

I also think this is the best ID Body Press user because of its bulk and STAB on Body Press. This feels unkillable at +2 and I have seen some VGC players have success with this set (anecdotally, it has been super insane for me).
I haven´t used it outside of semi-TR (or full room), but I can say it certainly delivers, if in the future it performs as well outside of TR with the ID set or similar tier 1 might not be out of the question.


:dondozo: :tatsugiri:
I absolutely hate this combo. People are debating on ways to optimize it (Level 100 Tatsugiri vs sacking it, Tera types, movesets, etc.) but it's already very strong. Turns out a +2 omniboost on an ok mon is good. The best way to handle it is passive damage - Wo-chien Leech Seed, TSpikes, etc. but it is very metagame warping. While currently not implemented on PS, you cannot phase the Dondozo after Commander has activated, which is a big part of how I'm dealing with it. I could totally see me laughing at this ranking in a few months but for now, top of T3 seems reasonable.
I feel like it´s no longer viable outside of low ladder, the omnipresent Amonguss resists all attacks and threatens to cut the sweep short, Iron Hands is likewise a great counter especially in TR, but it can still live a boosted earthquake ( +2 252+ Atk Dondozo Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Iron Hands: 280-330 (54.6 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO ) and hit back with a tera thunder punch for about 40% dmg, with a bit of help you 2HKO back, plus you can use fake out to get free dmg for a turn (unless they have protect). With the banning of gothitelle perhaps the suicide version gets stronger, but I haven´t had issues with this team as of late, despite having used it on day 1 to get to high ladder.

:brute-bonnet:
Spicy take but I do not see a super compelling reason to use this over Amoonguss. Its ability sucks, it has a much worse defensive typing, and you'd rather click Spore with this anyways until both slots are asleep. This might be harsh because I'm so high on Amoonguss viability but I would never use this unless I was going turbo with a ton of speed control.
100% agree, outside of sun, I always use amoonguss.


:scream-tail::farigiraf: :armarouge: :mimikyu: :bronzong: :hatterene:
Full Trick Room has been thoroughly unimpressive for me, especially without Gothitelle. I think Scream Tail and Mimikyu are actively good Pokemon (very reliable setters) and you are going to have to include a third bad setter in order to support Fullroom. I also don't think the style has too many heavy hitters outside of Torkoal and struggles to effectively deal with Amoonguss if Torkoal is dealt with.
I haven´t found a good full room team as of today despite having tried and really liking them, however, semi-TR is proving to be very effective for me, to be honest I had dropped the TR setters I had praised in my previous comment in favour of goth, but I still feel like Girafarif in particular is a great mon, which I´ll start using again.

:pincurchin: Having talked so much about him, I feel like I must mention Pincurchin. Despite some very lackluster stats, electric terrain is proving to be incredibly useful, completely shutting down Amoonguss and Among Us, and allowing the plethora of strong quark drive users to thrive by giving them the boost regarless of item or the number of times they switch out, Iron Hands deserves special mention, as he is allowed to switch out as he pleases, getting full value out of Fake Out and reseting CC stat drops. I´ve also been using this freedom to run AV on him, which has proven to be very bulky (252 SpA Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 145-172 (28.3 - 33.5%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO).

Probably deserves tier 3, definately not splashable given it´s individual weakness (although he can still save the day on ocassion), but integral to a competent team style.
 
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:chi-yu:
Its Scarf set hits like it's holding Specs with spread Heat Wave. It enables Flutter Mane to hit even more crazy heights. Its physical defense sucks which means it can get revenge killed by priority, but while playing against this, you need to make sure you either have a switchin at near 100%, a sack, or something on the field to deal with it NOW. The crazy part about this Pokemon is I think DOU has criminally underexplored its sets. Covert Cloak allows it to retain the very strong Protect while Specs literally OHKOs most Pokemon. I feel like this has a lot more counterplay and is less splashable than Flutter Mane so I put this lower, but dear god the numbers it puts out are dumb.
I can honestly see Chi-Yu being tier 1 for its ability to enable stuff like Flutter Mane and Gholdengo. It gives a nearly Life Orb powered boost to some of the most powerful attackers in the tier just for being on the field, and that's not even talking about its own damage. Also, I think that having the best Heat Wave in the tier is really good considering Amoonguss is tier 1 and Sun is really good rn.
 
I want to preface this by saying that I'm not a top level player, so don't laugh me out of the building too hard, but I've been doing really well with Jolly Bruxish with Dazzling.

:sv/bruxish:
Bruxish @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Wave Crash
- Psychic Fangs
- Crunch

In particular, I've been shutting down Amoonguss, Chi-Yu, Iron Hands, Dragonite, Tyranitar, and most completely, Grimmsnarl. Amoonguss and Iron Hands both don't want to take more than one psychic fang (edit: forgot to mention Iron Hands can't use fake out against you). Chi-Yu outspeeds if it's timid or scarfed, but at least at my level those are either not being run, or even when they are, Bruxish is so underestimated that they don't bother killing it with a dark move (assuming they're not choiced onto something already). I'm not sure if I've seen a Dragonite use a move other than e-speed since gen 9 came out, so Dazzling has that covered. TTar you just click wave crash. Grimmsnarl, who I've seen quite a lot of, basically doesn't exist if Bruxish is on the field. it can't use status moves on your team because you're immune. If it sets screens you just psychic fang them. I've been running crunch as a fourth move, but am open to suggestions on that, because it has a couple other options as well.

Yoda edit: added sprite and spacing
 
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I want to preface this by saying that I'm not a top level player, so don't laugh me out of the building too hard, but I've been doing really well with Jolly Bruxish with Dazzling.

:sv/bruxish:
Bruxish @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Wave Crash
- Psychic Fangs
- Crunch

In particular, I've been shutting down Amoonguss, Chi-Yu, Iron Hands, Dragonite, Tyranitar, and most completely, Grimmsnarl. Amoonguss and Iron Hands both don't want to take more than one psychic fang (edit: forgot to mention Iron Hands can't use fake out against you). Chi-Yu outspeeds if it's timid or scarfed, but at least at my level those are either not being run, or even when they are, Bruxish is so underestimated that they don't bother killing it with a dark move (assuming they're not choiced onto something already). I'm not sure if I've seen a Dragonite use a move other than e-speed since gen 9 came out, so Dazzling has that covered. TTar you just click wave crash. Grimmsnarl, who I've seen quite a lot of, basically doesn't exist if Bruxish is on the field. it can't use status moves on your team because you're immune. If it sets screens you just psychic fang them. I've been running crunch as a fourth move, but am open to suggestions on that, because it has a couple other options as well.

Yoda edit: added sprite and spacing
I like this set a lot yeah I can definitely see the use especially at this point in meta. I think it would be cool to see if a mystic water or life orb would be able to OHKO chi-yu with jet. Will definitely lab with this as I hadn't even thought of it.
 
my-image (1).png


I didn’t played that much so I’m probably forgetting stuff and overhyping some mons, but here it is.



Some explanations:

Anihilape bulk up is more of a danger with defensive tera option (water or fire especially) plus the beat up shenanigans with the mouse seems pretty legit.

Wo-Chien is the best ruin mon in my opinion and one of the best (if not the best) supporters, he can give to your team a perma intimidate, heal with both pollen puff and leechs, knock off support etc…

Houndstone is a legit mon but with a more support-oriented approach than just going ham in the last respect train. With a max of 516 speed in sand it has wow, snarl, psychic fangs… , stuff like helping hand or ally switch, and is immune to fake out too. It is a new cool way of sand abusing to support the team
 

Actuarily

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About two weeks in & post Shadow Tag ban, here's my VR:
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Tiers are not ordered, and I'm sure by the time I actually vote this weekend stuff will have changed slightly as more tour replays come in. Tier 5 could probably be trimmed, but I included most stuff that I've seen have some value.

The metagame right now is extremely hazard-filled. This is what happens when everyone gets access to Stealth Rocks and Spikes, and nobody gets defog. So stuff that can rapid spin or defog + have some other slight value are looking really good right now (like Tsareena and Corviknight).

Amoonguss + Ting-Lu is the best combo right now, the two have fantastic synergy. Beyond just typing and bulk Ting-Lu sets hazards, and if their fire/flying/Ice type aren't wearing boots, it makes it extremely difficult to beat Amoonguss. But if they are using boots, they can't reliably switch in on Amoonguss or risk getting spored.

There's also a lot of strong priority users in the game right now, such as Dragonite, Scizor, and Palafin. So you have to account for strong priority moves in the builder.

Overall I think the metagame is quite fun at the moment, even if I think it's a little tough in the builder to account for everything. That's likely just the way it is early on when we haven't found out all the best cores yet.
 

jcbc

lechonk is so cute
is a Pre-Contributor
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Not going to write much, but wanted to give what my (unordered) thoughts from the start of this gen. Overall nothing feels broken (if we get rid of teras). I feel like people overreacted to dondozo at the beginning and it's showing to be just another cheese, specially carried by the flamigo if you ask me. There's also a lot of variety to choose from when building and that has been fine to me, altho not having ting-lu on your team is almost a sacrilege tho.
 

Noelle

Trying my best
is a Community Contributor
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tinkaton tier is a joke tier, my actual ranking is Tier 5 behind Baxcalibur

So I ranked every viable Pokémon in SV DOU. The tiers are ordered, but tier 5 specifically is pretty loosely ordered because I stopped caring by then. This post is mostly a collection of nominations for the Viability Rankings, but the tier list is a pretty nice visual. I will be including replays, but as there haven't been very many SV DOU tournaments yet, they will be mostly my own replays. I don't know if this is past the deadline but hopefully it's at least considered for the next slate if it is, because this took forever

Tier 1 Nominations

Annihilape
:annihilape:

Annihilape is the only tier 1 Pokémon i haven't talked about at some other point, which is a crime because it's VERY dumb. Rage Fist is an insanely powerful attack with great neutral coverage. It goes up by 50 base power every hit, making it perfectly reasonable to get up to 150-200 base power. It has a great attack stat and Bulk Up on top of this, so Rage Fist is going to hit like a truck on anything that doesn't resist it. Speaking of resists, this Pokémon literally has none. Ghost/Fighting is perfect coverage, and it has great Fighting-type STABs with Close Combat and Drain Punch. The fact that it also resists nothing can be mitigated with Terastallization allowing it to become an unrelated defensive type like Water or Steel. It also loses STAB bonus on rage fist, but not having STAB on a 350 base power move isn't exactly a make-or-break difference. It doesn't even really need to invest in it's attack stat if it's running Bulk Up, allowing it to invest in it's bulk to take more hits, and by extension increase the power of Rage Fist. It also has 110 base HP and Final Gambit, allowing it to act as a delete button against anything not named Ting-Lu. This Pokémon is pretty obviously unhealthy and should at least be suspected.

All the other Pokémon in Tier 1 I've talked about before in this post, so I'll be moving on to tier 2

Tier 2 Nominations

Amoonguss
:amoonguss:

Amoonguss is the best balanced Pokémon in the tier. Without Tapu Fini, it lost one of the main things preventing it from spamming Spore, meaning the only counterplay to it's sleep moves are Grass-types, which there are a very limited amount of, and Safety Goggles, which is otherwise a waste of an item slot and has serious opportunity cost over other items if your opponent just doesn't have an Amoonguss or Brute Bonnet. Amoonguss is also the most consistent check to Dondozo with Clear Smog and the best redirector with Rage Powder. It also has a great defensive typing, and it's Poison typing allows it to be a great Toxic Spikes absorber in combination with Regenerator. It can also Terastallize into a Water or Rock-type to more easily pivot around Sun teams. It's item slot is also very flexible. It can run Eject Button with Palafin to act as a defensive pivot for it to more easily activate it's ability, and has great synergy with it's ability Regenerator, Sitrus Berry gives it additional recovery and can turn 2HKOs into 3HKOs, and Covert Cloak allows it to ignore moves like Fake Out, making it even more potent as a Spore user. This Pokémon is amazing, the only reason it's not in tier 1 is because tier 1 is reserved for Pokémon I would consider potentially broken, and I don't think Amoonguss is quite at the level of Chi-Yu or Flutter Mane in that regard. Regardless, it's an amazing Pokémon, but in a way that's healthy and not overbearing.


https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1729115767-pza1s8c1tvt22b6scx5drajnw372zvppw

Torkoal :torkoal:

I really don't have much to say about this one. It's just a good Drought user and defensive pivot. Sun is amazing this generation because of the Paradox Pokémon that benefit from it, and Torkoal is a great enabler. Eject Button Torkoal is the most common set I've seen but Charcoal and Sitrus Berry are likely also usable. It's also the main Trick Room beneficiary on such teams, with Eruption and Tera Fighting Body Press sets both being usable. It's just a really solid mon that enables a ton of brokens, there's really not too much to say

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1716694343


Dragonite :dragonite:

Dragonite is one of the best users of Terastallization this gen, Tera Normal Extreme Speed hits like a truck and ignores speed control. It even outspeeds other priority moves like jet punch and sucker punch. I've already talked about what Dragonite does in my Terastallization post, so I won't repeat myself for the sake of time, but this mon is cool.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1719198496

Glimmora :glimmora:

Glimmora is the premier hazard stack Pokémon this generation. It does mostly the same thing regardless of it's set, but it has a few different options to spice things up a little. It's main set is Spikes/Stealth Rock/Sludge Bomb/Power Gem with Focus Sash, but it has a few options outside of that. It can run Spiky Shield over Spikes on teams that already have a Spikes Pokémon, it can use Earth Power over Power Gem for the mirror and to hit Steel-types that would otherwise wall it, and Mortal Spin is an option over Sludge Bomb, but is only ever really worth it on hard stall. Focus sash can also guarantee Glimmora two layers against physical attackers, or guarantee it Stealth Rock or one layer of Spikes. It's Poison typing also allows it to absorb Toxic Spikes from opposing Glimmora. Personally I think this mon is insane, I've been using it a ton.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1719198496 (same replay i used for dragonite but this also slowcases glimmora fairly well)

Gyarados :gyarados:

Gyarados is also pretty solid right now. It's nothing special, but it does what it needs to do and does it well. Dragon Dance sets can make good use of Ground-type Terastallization with Earthquake which is really good right now. It also has a support set with Taunt and Dragon Tail, and while I'm not a huge fan of it, I will acknowledge it's existence. Gyarados is fine, DD is a cool wincon with defensive utility in Intimidate and the support set... exists.


https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1719301415

Scizor :scizor:

Scizor is the best user of Tailwind in the tier. It has a great defensive typing and good bulk that it can afford to invest into. It's low speed, which might appear to be a detriment to it due to the dynamic speed changes, actually benefits it because it gets access to slow U-Turn and can run Bullet Punch to bypass it's speed stat entirely. It can even run Choice Band sets to further boost Bullet Punch. It's overall a very solid and splashable mon.

Garganacl :garganacl:

Garganacl functions pretty similarly to Registeel, except it's actually good. It has Iron Defense and Body Press along with good natural bulk, but is also immune to status conditions due to it's ability, so you can't just burn it to make it's damage output manageable or hit it with Toxic (not that much even gets Toxic anymore) It also has access to Salt Cure which does great passive damage that persists until they switch out or die, and Recover which is good for obvious reasons. It was also clearly designed with Terastallization in mind, as it's an amazing user of it defensively. Grass and Fairy are good defensive types for it to turn into, but it can also run Fighting to power up Body Press or even Ghost which only has one weakness because of it's ability (granted it's an extremely common weakness).

Arcanine :arcanine:

Arcanine always goes hard in dex restricted formats. It has access to Snarl and WIll-O-Wisp as well as Intimidate, making it an amazing debuffer that can do surprisingly decent damage with Flare Blitz. It's a great mon into Sun teams and can take hits from Chi-Yu + Flutter Mane pretty well due to it's pretty decent natural bulk and ability to debuff with Snarl. It also benefits quite a bit from Terastallization, but I talked about that in my Terastallization post.

Chien-Pao
:chien pao:

This is the one I'm the least confident about, and there doesn't seem to be a clear consensus on it. Some people think it's pretty good (myself included) but I've also seen other people saying it's garbage, so I'm not really sure if this is a hot take or not. Regardless, Chien-Pao on it's own is pretty epic. Ice and Dark are both amazing offensive types, and it also gets Sacred Sword. It's also an amazing user of Terastallization, with Tera Fighting to power up it's Sacred Sword or just Tera Ice or Dark to power up its STABS. Ice/Dark, while an AMAZING offensive pairing, is extremely weak defensively, but Terastallization fixes that problem for it, allowing it to simply change it's typing into something more effective defensively, like Fighting. Additionally, It's ability makes all of it's attacks even more difficult to switch into as well as enables it's physical attacking teammates. Speaking of enabling it's teammates, you may notice that a lot of the Pokémon I've just talked about (Annihilape, Dragonite, Gyarados, Scizor) and some of the other Pokémon in the higher tiers (Iron Valiant, Palafin, Garchomp, etc.) really benefit from the defense of other Pokémon being lowered. That's what makes Chien-Pao such a great Pokémon in my eyes. It's great on it's own offensively, but also enables its teammates to do more damage just by existing on the field with them. Personally I think it deserves tier 2, but if you think it's tier 3 that's fine too, not really willing to die on this hill

Tier 3 Nominations

Palafin :palafin:

Palafin is an extremely strong priority user. Jet Punch hits like a truck with Terastallization and Choice Band boosting it. It also pairs very nicely with Scizor and Eject Button Amoonguss, both of which are already good Pokémon. It has decent coverage moves too with Close Combat and Zen Headbutt. I could also see Palafin being tier 2, but I just don't think it's better than Pokémon like Scizor, so top of tier 3 behind Garganacl makes sense to me (Though tier 2 is also a pretty respectable ranking for it imo)

Garchomp :garchomp:

Really good Earthquake user. It's fast and decently strong with Ground + Rock coverage. It also gets access to Swords Dance and is a great user of Clear Amulet. Sand Veil also allows it to work well on Sand teams. Pretty solid mon, but nothing special, not much to say here.

Tyranitar :tyranitar:

Does pretty much everything it did last gen, those things being hazard setting in combination with Sand chip and Dragon Tail to spread damage. It gets even more value now because of how common hazards are in this meta (so many Pokémon got Stealth Rock/Spikes) and the fact that it beats Sun, the best weather.

Farigiraf :farigiraf:

This is another mon I don't have much to say about. It's a good Trick Room user that blocks priority while doing decent damage in the process. It also fits fairly nicely on sun teams as a Torkoal support. It's pretty good on Trick Room teams and is a pretty consistent setter.

Iron Hands
:iron hands:

Iron Hands has great stats and access to Fake Out which is pretty hard to come by with every viable Fake Out user from generation 8 being dexited. It's a great AV user and has access to Volt Switch for pivoting as well. It's insanely bulky to the point where it's near impossible to OHKO with any unboosted attack, and still does good damage because it has 140 base attack. It does come with an Earthquake weakness though, which is very unfortunate in this meta where Earthquake is one of the best attacking moves.

Brute Bonnet :brute bonnet:

Brute Bonnet is basically just a more offensive, but worse Amoonguss. It actually does decent damage, especially on Sun teams, and Close Combat + Sucker Punch is really decent coverage, as well as having access to Spore. The problem is mostly it's typing. Grass/Dark is a pretty bad defensive type, and while it can Terastallize to get around this, dedicated Terastallization users are generally pretty bad, and even then Brute Bonnet would much rather use it's Terastallization offensively. It's still really good though, this meta is lacking good offensive Grass-types and Brute Bonnet fills that niche pretty well.

Chansey :chansey:

This mon will probably always be viable through just raw stats. It does the exact same thing it's done in every generation prior, but it fits very nicely on hazard centric stall teams which this meta is full of. It's just an insanely bulky wall that can spread damage and status, and a lot of teams seriously struggle to break it.

Iron Bundle
:iron bundle:

This Pokémon isn't very popular right now, but I think it has some serious potential. Hydro Pump and Freeze-Dry is amazing coverage, and it's also a great partner for Chi-Yu. Right now people aren't really experimenting with alternate Chi-Yu partners because, for the most part, Flutter Mane is just better, but Iron Bundle could end up being a really good option if/when Flutter Mane gets banned, or on teams that benefit more from it's typing/coverage.

Great Tusk :great tusk:

Great Tusk has Disgusting damage output and Ground and Fighting are amazing offensive types. Headlong Rush also hits like a truck, 2HKOing most neutral targets, and Earthquake is a very strong spread move with very few resists. Great Tusk also has access to Rapid Spin, which removes hazards (with how popular Glimmora is, hazard removal actually gets a ton of value) and gives it +1 speed, allowing it to outspeed almost every relevant Pokémon in the meta. This Pokémon is amazing, it does so much damage and actually has pretty decent bulk as well.

Roaring Moon :roaring moon:

This Pokémon is the weirdest bad Pokémon I have ever seen. It shouldn't be bad, and on the surface it's actually very good. It has a lot going for it, like a good speed tier, great base attack, a deep movepool, and Tailwind which it's the current best user of (which is realistically the only reason it's even ranked this high). So what's wrong with it? well, all of it's moves are weak. It has no strong, high base power delete button like so many other strong offensive Pokémon in the tier right now. It has one move above 100 base power, which is Acrobatics. Acrobatics is unironically not a bad option on it with booster energy and Flying-type Tera, but it's usually not a good idea to spend your Terastallization on it, as in most matchups it's optimal to just get Tailwind up and click moves until you die, and you preferably want your Terastallization user to have more impact on the game, especially if it's a dedicated Tera like Roaring Moon. It's not terrible though, it's the only tailwind setter that does decent damage offensively (other than Scizor which isn't nearly as fast as Roaring Moon) and Dragon Dance sets with proper support can be quite threatening.

Maushold :maushold:

Maushold is currently the best user of Follow Me and has access to Population Bomb, which is an extremely strong multi-hit move with good coverage, sitting at a staggering 200 base power if you connect every hit. It also gets other good support moves like Super Fang and Encore and has a pretty decent speed tier as well. Very solid Pokémon, arguably tier 2 but tier 3 makes more sense to me.

Pawmot :pawmot:

Pawmot may seem a little weird this high up, but it's for good reason. It pretty much does what Zeraora did last generation with fast Fake Out and strong Electric STAB, but it also has access to STAB Close Combat and Revival Blessing, which may actually be the single most broken move ever (not including Z moves obviously). Being able to revive a teammate is huge, and it can run Leppa Berry and allow you to do it twice in one game, which is insane value. Pawmot itself isn't phenomenal in my opinion, but Revival Blessing is so broken I think it deserves at least tier 3

I don't feel like writing for tiers 4 and 5 as this post is already 2k+ words, but I will highlight some specific Pokémon from the lower tiers

Dondozo/Tatsugiri
:dondozo: :tatsugiri:

This pair may actually be broken. I didn't know where to put it so I just put it in tier 4 to be safe, but the discovery that you can't actually phase Dondozo after Commander activates is huge. Because outright killing Dondozo at +2 is pretty much not an option, the only reliable counterplay to all Dondozo sets is Haze and Clear Smog, and the best user of Haze is Murkrow :worrywhirl: Dondozo + Tatsugiri feels pretty warping right now, if you don't have the very specific tools required to deal with it you literally just lose the game, which doesn't seem particularly healthy.

Iron Valiant :iron valiant:

Iron Valiant definitely has potential to be extremely good, I just don't think I've seen enough of it to be convinced it ranks much higher than this. Mixed Booster Energy is a very good late game cleaner, and it's typing means it could probably have some use as a stallbreaker, as it hits a lot of Pokémon commonly used on stall super-effectively. Fighting Fairy is an extremely good offensive typing, and it has a good movepool and stats to back it up, it just hasn't been used enough to rank any higher than where it is right now in my opinion

Gothitelle :gothitelle:

Interestingly, I think Gothitelle without Shadow Tag has some serious potential. Fake Out users are very limited this generation and Gothitelle is an amazing user of it, it has great utility moves in Heal Pulse and Hypnosis, and it's an amazing Trick Room user. Frisk is also an extremely useful ability for scouting items, specifically on Pokémon like Flutter Mane which have several viable items that aren't immediately obvious due to the fact that it runs the same few moves on literally every set. It basically functions as a sort of budget Mew, a bulky Fake Out user with good support options.

Skeledirge :skeledirge:

I personally think this Pokémon has a ton of potential on Glimmora teams. Torch Song and Hex is a pretty powerful STAB combination on Toxic Spikes Teams, and it also gets access to good debuffing options on more stallish teams like Will-O-Wisp and Snarl. This mon could very easily run away with games on more offensive Torch Song sets, and is a decent debuffer with Snarl + Will-O-Wisp. It hasn't seen much usage as of right now, but it could potentially end up being a nice option on Balance teams once the meta settles more. Or I'm just on copium because I love it's design, both are equally possible

Gastrodon :gastrodon:

Gastrodon got directly buffed by getting access to Spikes this generation, but it also got indirectly buffed, as options for offensive grass types that beat Gastrodon are VERY limited. Gastrodon's typing is also very valuable this generation defensively, allowing it to pivot around Sun, neutralize Palafin and to a lesser extent Dondozo with it's ability (it can also run clear smog specifically for Dondozo), and take hits from the infamous Chi-Yu + Flutter Mane duo. This Pokémon has actually seen a decent amount of use to my knowledge, and I unironically think it's going to be pretty good this generation (at least before Pokémon Home)

Alright, those are all the Pokémon I wanted to talk about. Sorry for the long post, I had a lot to say. I also really hope this isn't past the deadline, as that would be MOST unfortunate. Also please remember these are just my opinions. I'm not trying to say that if you think something is higher/lower than where I placed it, you're wrong. This is also based on my own personal experience mostly, so Pokémon I haven't seen as much are probably ranked lower. If you made it to the end, thanks for reading, I appreciate it :D
 

Actuarily

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The first Viability Rankings of SV have been voted on! Due to the nature of a new generation, and all the changes that come with it, for the first slate we added in every "tier maker" as well as pokemon discussed in this thread as nominations. For the voting, we simply voted on rankings with the reasoning write-ups omitted.

Going forward, we will return to how the VR is normally done with nominations requiring reasoning, and our rankers will provide their reasoning for their votes as well. Please read the OP for guidelines on what is required in a nomination.

Without further ado, here are the votes!
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Changes:
:Amoonguss:: Tier 1
:Dragonite:: Tier 1
:Ting-Lu:: Tier 1
:Annihilape:: Tier 2
:Arcanine:: Tier 2
:Chi-Yu:: Tier 2
:Gholdengo:: Tier 2
:Glimmora:: Tier 2
:Great Tusk:: Tier 2
:Iron Hands:: Tier 2
:Palafin:: Tier 2
:Armarouge:: Tier 3
:Chien-Pao:: Tier 3
:Dragapult:: Tier 3
:Farigiraf:: Tier 3
:Garchomp:: Tier 3
:Garganacl:: Tier 3
:Indeedee-F:: Tier 3
:Iron Bundle:: Tier 3
:Murkrow:: Tier 3
:Scizor:: Tier 3
:Torkoal:: Tier 3
:Wo-Chien:: Tier 3
:Brute Bonnet:: Tier 4
:Grimmsnarl:: Tier 4
:Gyarados:: Tier 4
:Houndstone:: Tier 4
:Iron Jugulis:: Tier 4
:Maushold:: Tier 4
:Meowscarada:: Tier 4
:Pelipper:: Tier 4
:Roaring Moon:: Tier 4
:Rotom-Wash:: Tier 4
:Tsareena:: Tier 4
:Tyranitar:: Tier 4
:Volcarona:: Tier 4
:Ceruledge:: Tier 5
:Chansey:: Tier 5
:Corviknight:: Tier 5
:Drifblim:: Tier 5
:Flamigo:: Tier 5
:Hippowdon:: Tier 5
:Iron Treads:: Tier 5
:Iron Valiant:: Tier 5
:Kilowattrel:: Tier 5
:Kingambit:: Tier 5
:Lilligant:: Tier 5
:Mimikyu:: Tier 5
:Oranguru:: Tier 5
:Pawmot:: Tier 5
:Rabsca:: Tier 5
:Rotom-Heat:: Tier 5
:Salamence:: Tier 5
:Scream Tail:: Tier 5
:Sylveon:: Tier 5
:Talonflame:: Tier 5
 
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qsns

is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
VGCPL Champion
Making some noms :smile:

:meowscarada: 4 -> 2/3 This Pokemon is currently 8-0 in World Cup, which is an extraordinarily strong record uncharacteristic of Tier 4. One might think that its niche may fall off without Commander in the tier, but Meowscarada has not even matched up against a Dondozo in a cup game. It is extraordinarily strong into Screens and defense-boosting monsters such as Annihilape and Garganacl, as well as Intimidate thanks to Flower Trick. Grass is a surprisingly strong offensive typing right now, especially considering Dragonite wants to Tera away its 4x resistance. Sucker Punch, Knock Off, Trick Room, Pollen Puff, Toxic Spikes, and Taunt are all very good options in the other moveslots. This Pokemon feels top of Tier 3 to me, if not 2.

:wo-chien: 3 -> 5 This Pokemon has not been used in World Cup and I don't think provides enough of a niche for Tier 3. I think it was a lot better with Gothitelle in the tier enabling the stall playstyle. This Pokemon is OHKOd by Toxic Spikes and demands a Tera against any Chi-Yu or Chien-Pao team, all so it can sit there with Leech Seed and occasionally click Ruination. Even after a Flutter Mane ban, I don't see this holding much relevance.

edit: this started to see use and is doing fine on compositions that can support it, 4 is probably more accurate

:pelipper: 4 -> 3 Rain is very scary. Even if it's just used for strong Palafin moves and weather control, it does a very admirable job at that. Pelipper itself is also not that bad right now because of how limited Tailwind is and its newfound access to Helping Hand.

:grimmsnarl: 4 -> 3 Parting Shot was an alright buff but honestly, Grimm excels in the metagame because it enables a lot of stupid stuff. This has seen usage on Ape, Garganacl, and even DD Pult teams during World Cup so far. Screens + setup is really strong!

:maushold: 4 -> 3 Considering Scarf Ape has rarely been seen in DOU, and the majority of Ape teams run this as well, it feels wrong for this to be in Tier 4 while Ape sits in 2. Follow Me, Tidy Up, and Encore are all sick options to have and Maus uses them consistently almost every game due to its very solid speed. Friend Guard is also a great "switch in for damage reduction" ability considering how common Clear Amulet is.
 
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GenOne

DOU main. GMT-7. PS!: GenOne
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:chien-pao: 3 -> 2

If you look at all the Dragonite teams that are winning DWCOP right now, anywhere from about half to a moderate majority of them also run Chien-Pao to further augment Dragonite's Extreme Speeds and overall damage capabilities. Chien-Pao is also very commonly seen on rain teams to boost Palafin's Jet Punches and Wave Crashes.

Chien Pao also fills a situationally important role on the abovementioned "priority spam" archetypes by having fast access to Ice Spinner to clear out Psychic Terrain and/or to threaten Tsareenas off the field. And Sucker Punch as a STAB priority option gives it offensive capabilities even in the face of opposing speed control.

Although on its own it's pretty frail for a Tier 2 worthy mon, I think it has proven its worth on some of the best performing teams thus far in DWCOP and with Flutter Mane gone I only expect Chien-Pao to get better.

:meowscarada: 4 -> 3

2 might be too high but 3 for sure for the reasons qsns already said.

:jumpluff: UR -> 5

I think Jumpluff is roughly as good as Lilligant as a Chlorophyll user rn. It's just as good as a fast sleep powder spammer, and otherwise trades the offensive utility Lilligant offers (STAB + after you torky) for some pretty good utility options like fast tailwinds and rage powders that can redirect Dragonite Extreme Speeds. Jumpluff also somewhat competes with Murkrow for the same niche as a fast Tailwind setter so definitely no higher than 5 if ranked at all, but I think Jumpluff is a cool option on sun!

:flamigo: 5 -> UR

I asked about this in Discord and it sounds like this might've been voted on before Tatsugiri was banned. But yeah I haven't seen a single person show up with Flamigo raw so I'm not sure why it's ranked. It also hasn't been used at all in DWCOP either it has only really seen use on ladder with the 2v2 Dondozo gimmick which is irrelevant now anyways.
 
i've played like 1k games of this over the last week on several alts (i'm not exaggerating). i've rly rly enjoyed this tier and honestly i don't see myself stopping playing any time soon. over this time i've developed some opinions on the meta so i thought i'd make a post. stepping out of my comfort zone and posting in a vr thread that doesn't belong to pu is scary, but these should be fairly agreeable takes for the most part, so i'm not that scared.

somewhat of a serious suggestion, and i really don't mean it as a slight at anyone but is there any chance we could have a vr update virtually immediately, because this current vr looks incredibly inaccurate, and doesn't represent the meta whatsoever. a lot of that is due to the bans that have occurred right beforehand, and not yet having an adequate gauge on what mons were going to suffer as a result; but it generally just isn't a helpful resource at all in its current state. i and i'm sure many others would appreciate updates more frequently in the first few months as the meta rapidly develops.

anyway without further ado, let's get into the noms:

~

:dragonite: 1 -> 2
not anywhere near as good as this vr makes it out to be, still an extremely potent threat but not one i'd ever consider a tier 1 threat. i appreciated it a lot more in the early meta, where it felt rewarding to pair cb variants with chien-pao and run through teams; or even just finding use in av / dd sets. right now however, dragonite suffers from the metagame's current top picks in addition to the prevalence of anti-priority. i also feel like it benefited a lot more early on from being somewhat of a surprise factor, but now everyone knows what it does, and it's not the uber prominent espeeding dragon it was a month ago. while you could argue that a lot of the indeedee/farigiraf/annihilape that is running around the meta is in part due to how potent dragonite is, this is only part true. these mons have enough merit to be run on their own. i don't find myself obliged to run any of these by any means.

:gholdengo: 2 -> 1
this mon is something i just find myself throwing on most teams without any concern in the world. by far the best steel in the tier, has very limited switchins. both specs and np sets are incredibly dangerous and menacing. its ability is amazing, its typing is amazing. has very little drawback other than its speed which is easily mitigated due to how easy murkrow / other tailwind is to fit in this metagame. gholdengo is an excellent mon, that i would say is meta defining, and far more effective in its role than pokemon like dragonite are in theirs.

:chi-yu: 2 -> 1
scarf chi-yu forces you to run one of a few mons in the builder if you want sufficient counterplay against it. otherwise it just takes kills. that set alone is incredible on its own, np and specs sets are also sorta nice too. the power level of this mon with heat wave is bonkers.

:torkoal: 3 -> 2
torkoal is extremely scary in the current meta, there's not enough defensive counterplay to torkoal in tr played right. would be a 1 if it didn't require a setter / support. a well played torkoal just blitzes through most teams without wide guard or alternate weather. lillikoal is also a thing that can sweep unprepared teams but to a much lesser extent. tr into koal is far more prominent and the basis of this nom.

:tyranitar: 4 -> 3
ttar excels in a meta with both chi-yu and torkoal seeing so much prominent usage. sand as a playstyle is also just incredible right now. weather control helps a ton vs all the weather running around.

:lycanroc: UR -> 3
this mon being unranked is an incredible injustice. sash lycanroc is insane in the current metagame. the utility of an incredibly fast rock slide / cc / auto kill button in endeavor, cannot be understated. here's an example of a game where it's been used in dwcop to success. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9doublesou-665267

:palafin-hero: 2 -> 3
this mon is sorta mediocre. you pretty much have to lead it to get any traction out of it, and even when you do it struggles to have a substantial impact. its niche as a haze user is also irrelevant now that dondogiri is gone. not a pokemon i find myself running very often.

:scizor: 3 -> 5
without flutter mane, i'd struggle to justify using this at all really.

:iron-jugulis: 4 -> UR
this mon has no serious usage as far as i'm aware. it's just very awkward and unfortunately frequently does nothing when used. i've tried using it as a tailwind lead or as a rain attacker, both seem underwhelming. i had high hopes for it initially, but those hopes are gone now, after i've attempted time and time again to make it put in work, only to fail everytime.

:hydreigon: UR -> 5
i'd replace jugulis with this which is overall a better mon due to soft checking chi-yu, even if its tailwind is slower.

:azumarill: UR -> 5
i'd rather run this as a strong water type attacker than i would palafin. nice defensive typing considering the prevalence of chi-yu, after a belly drum can often go in. allows itself to even get around amoong this gen if it wants with ice spinner. not amazing, but a cool mon.

:toxtricity: UR -> 4
specs tera normal toxtricity hits like a truck with boomburst, this mon is insane. example of what it does: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1748847283

:kingambit: 5 -> 4
very strong mon that in general resists a lot of common threats including the main culprit gholdengo. a solid mon, in my eyes it's by far the second best steel in the tier, and one that rly should see a lot more usage than it does currently.

sorry for my ramblings, i hope people agree with my noms, tyvm for reading c:
 

Actuarily

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somewhat of a serious suggestion, and i really don't mean it as a slight at anyone but is there any chance we could have a vr update virtually immediately, because this current vr looks incredibly inaccurate, and doesn't represent the meta whatsoever. a lot of that is due to the bans that have occurred right beforehand, and not yet having an adequate gauge on what mons were going to suffer as a result; but it generally just isn't a helpful resource at all in its current state. i and i'm sure many others would appreciate updates more frequently in the first few months as the meta rapidly develops.
Good nominations, want to address this part. Yes we are planning frequent VR updates, especially as the meta changes due to natural early meta development and the result of bans. But as the last update occurred ~6 days ago, it’ll be a couple of weeks until the next one.
 
Looking through the updated VR, I'm really surprised Dondozo isn't anywhere on there. Is it really that useless without Tatsugiri? I thought it would still have a niche as a bulky unaware mon. Actually, looking at it agian, it seems like there are no unaware mons. I know Skeledirge is pretty popular in vgc (could just be cause it's a starter), but what makes them so unviable in DOU?
 
Looking through the updated VR, I'm really surprised Dondozo isn't anywhere on there. Is it really that useless without Tatsugiri? I thought it would still have a niche as a bulky unaware mon. Actually, looking at it agian, it seems like there are no unaware mons. I know Skeledirge is pretty popular in vgc (could just be cause it's a starter), but what makes them so unviable in DOU?
Dondozo has bad stats, so without the free boosts it falls flat, unaware isnt inherently bad (although not amazing for doubles), but rn there arent many boosters in meta aside from protosynthesis and quark drive users who ignore unaware, dondozo isnt banned in VGC, so perhaps thats it.
 

qsns

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Looking through the updated VR, I'm really surprised Dondozo isn't anywhere on there. Is it really that useless without Tatsugiri? I thought it would still have a niche as a bulky unaware mon. Actually, looking at it agian, it seems like there are no unaware mons. I know Skeledirge is pretty popular in vgc (could just be cause it's a starter), but what makes them so unviable in DOU?
Speaking to Skeledirge, I was pretty high on it in the last metagame and brought it to World Cup (I would probably have placed it Tier 3/4). However, I think it lost most of its viability once Tatsugiri was banned, as its main niche was being able to Terastallize out of its Fire-type and completely beat Dondozo as well as be a generically good setup mon. After the ban, I think it is generally outclassed as a setup Ghost-type by both Annihilape and Ceruledge.
 

Spurrific

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Central is now out of DWCOP so I am dropping my VR noms before my mind goes into full VGC mode. First off big thanks to qsns for entertaining my dumb ideas, testing my stuff when I didn't want to, and advocating for me re:suspects and viability since I'm usually not as vocal about it. Anyways, here's my noms:

Rises:
:chien-pao: 3 -> 1 This guy genuinely feels like the most oppressive mon in the tier to me, it basically has everything it wants in its kit for personal damage, as Ice/Fighting lets it hit almost everything for at least neutral, and Sucker Punch also lets it lock down things even in Trick Room or vs an opponent's Tailwind. What separates this Pokemon from other glass cannons however is how much it enables with Sword of Ruin. It pushes the strongest priority users from cleaning up late game to being able to outright OHKO Pokemon with even decent bulk. Most notably, I firmly believe Dragonite (currently tier 1) and Palafin (currently tier 2) are significantly worse without being able to threaten a Chien-Pao switch in when they go for an Extreme Speed or Jet Punch. To top it off, Chien-Pao even has its own counterplay to Psychic Terrain in Ice Spinner, and is capable of OHKOing Tsareena or Farigiraf (should you elect to run a non-Sucker Punch Dark move). I'd be fine with this only moving up to tier 2 but it's definitely not tier 3.

:gholdengo: 3 -> 1 Not much to say here, it just has an incredible ability, typing, and sig move. It don't actually think it's too high impact but it causes significant problems for Amoonguss which is by far the best Pokemon in the tier since it doesn't care about Spore, doesn't care about redirection, and hard walls all its attack options (even Foul Play does nothing to it lol.)

Update: since writing this I played a DWCOP game that reinforces the significance of its Amoonguss matchup. When Lemurro brought in Amoonguss I was basically playing a 2v1 since I was able to set up to +6 without fear of Spore, cause problems with my own Amoonguss by forcing the Taunt and Pollen Puffing my Gholdy, and then click Rage Powder + Make it Rain (around Lemurro's own Rage Powder) when I was ready to sweep. (I'm not ready to walk back what I said about it not being too high impact just yet because I feel like a sweep of this proportions was an outlier.)

:pelipper: 4 -> 3 Despite the lack of strong Swift Swim mons in the game I do think rain is a very strong archetype and I feel like the overall power level is low enough for bulky Peli to be difficult to remove quickly, and it has a lot of strong support options in Tailwind, Wide Guard, and (new to SV) Helping Hand. I think this mon is tied at the hip to Palafin (spoiler for later) so I think it firmly belongs in 3.

:volcarona: 4 -> 3 Quite good into Ape Screens, has a very strong Tera option in Grass that works to its benefit both offensively and defensively, can be used as both a team focal point with QD or a support mon with Tailwind/Rage Powder/Wisp/Etc, Flame Body is annoying.

:pawmot: 5 -> 3 I might be pushing my luck with this nom here but Revival Blessing is a candidate for Best Move Of All Time and it has quite strong stabs in Double Shock and Close Combat, plus Fake Out is always a good move. My DWCOP game vs Yoda is a good example of how this thing can be especially abused, since I was able to be aggressive with Palafin early in the game and not have to worry about tossing it out because I had the option to bring it back with Pawmot. Its main issue is that there's a ton of competition for Fightings in the tier so in my experience you end up having to stack Fightings when you put it on a team.

:kingambit: 5 -> 3 ngl I haven't thought about this mon at all in doubles but I'm really really high on it in VGC and surely it translates well. It's just a huge stat stick with a really solid typing (probably worse because of cheems and Chi-Yu though)

:sylveon: 5 -> 4 Fairy typing is quite good and there's no offensive Fairies in the top 4 tiers.

Drops:
:dragonite: 1 -> 2 As mentioned earlier I feel like Dragonite is enabled by Chien-Pao rather than the other way around. The CB set is pretty mid without cheems and the other sets don't have a high enough ceiling to be worthy of being a tier 1 mon. Tera Flying Hurricane is really funny on rain though.

:ting-lu: 1 -> 2 I'm gonna be honest I think this guy sucks but it's definitely the best 1 mon answers into Torkoal Chi-Yu stuff without having to worry about having your anti-sun weather being caught out of position, and it's also probably the best stealth rocker in the tier. I had a lot of fun in pre-series 1 VGC pressing screens + Ruination to just win literally every damage trade but Ruination as a move just feels less valuable in 6v6. I haven't really played much with it since then though so I could be wrong about this, but I don't think it comes close to being as high impact of a support mon as Amoonguss.

:palafin: 2 -> 3 Please for the love of god PLEASE stop using Palafin on balance offense. I don't get mad if I see it without cheems but you absolutely need to be running it on rain for it to be doing anything worthwhile.

:wo-chien: 3 -> 5 Has anyone actually used this yet? Like the PokeAlex tweet is objectively hilarious (iykyk) but it just seems way too underwhelming and hasn't done anything in public replays yet.

Stuff that I think should stay in their respective tier but I still have thoughts on:

:amoonguss: I have frequently said it in this post already but I feel like I just need to emphasize: Amoonguss is by far the best Pokemon in the tier. This is the best its been in a DOU format since pre-bank XY and the majority of games will be won or lost based on Amoonguss play, counterplay, techs, and the ability of players to play around said techs. Defensive Tera is more powerful of a buff for it than I think people are realizing, because you can no longer reliably say your Amoonguss check is blowing it up, especially with the current power level of the dex. If you want to succeed in tournaments learn how to use this Pokemon as well as you can and learn how to play against it.

:chi-yu: I know this thing is being looked at for a potential suspect, but I feel like tier 2 is correct for it because it's a lot more selfish than Chien-Pao in that it benefits from its ability more than most potential partners for it. Priority is just nuts with the passive debuffs and there's not really a lot of it on the special side. Plus Ting-Lu is a lot better into it than Wo-Chien is into Chien-Pao. It also doesn't really have a crazy coverage move like Chien-Pao does in Sacred Sword without having to commit to Tera Blast (which I would absolutely do with this mon fwiw) so it's easier to switch checks into it.

:annihilape: Another potentially banworthy mon, I doubt I will be paying attention to DOU by the time a suspect happens so just want to post some quick thoughts on the Ape Screens the archetype and the mon on its own. I think the archetype is a bit too honest/passive to consider banning Ape over but there's a lot of unpredictability that worries me about Ape's place in the tier. The main one is that it has too very good abilities in Defiant and Vital Spirit that can be run on any set, and they punish 2 methods of Ape counterplay that would otherwise be really strong in Intimidate and Sleep respectively. You are basically forced into scouting the Ape ability before you attempt to try and keep it in check, and sometimes it's not possible to scout it without going in blind and intentionally using one of the aforementioned counterplays. Eventually I think this will be punishable with smarter Ape comps like Maushold Ape that threaten a side Beat Up while also adding layers of unpredictability with thins like Scarf Ape or an offensive Pop Bomp set. In a potential Ape suspect I would focus on the unpredictability aspect rather than the strength of the Bulk Up + Screens defend-the-castle strategy.

:arcanine: I'm hearing Arcanine has been getting a lot of hate recently because Intimidate is supposedly bad now. However, I think it's still quite worthy of tier 2 because of how versatile it can be even beyond being an intimidate bot. It has the stats and moveset to run either support or aggressive sets, and can definitely do things like viably replace Dragonite as a CB Espeed Chien-Pao abuser. It's also great into cheems the mon even if it can't intimidate dnite which goes a long way when you're trying to get a Steel or Ghost in to deal with the dnite.

As a quick afterword, those of you who have talked to me at all about DOU know that I absolutely hated SS, so it really was a breath of fresh air to actually enjoy building and playing as much as I did. Unfortunately I don't see myself playing much until August because I really want to make Day 2 Worlds this year so I wish everyone all the best and look forward to coming back next SCL :)
 
RIP US Central and RIP my retirement. Agree with most of qsns and spuriffic's noms, will just add one of my own

:hydreigon: UR -> 4
As spurrific stated in his Sylveon up-nom, there's a real lack of offensive fairies in the tier currently which makes hydreigon defensively more valuable than it has been since like XY. Hydreigon makes a great partner for Gholdengo as well, providing speed control in a metagame that lacks reliable tailwind options.
 

qsns

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Had a lot of other noms but Spurrific got to most of them so short post

:kingambit: Kingambit 5 -> 3

I am definitely higher on this Pokemon than most (I would happily put this in 2) but I absolutely see this Pokemon's usage rising in the future as a fantastic glue. It is one of the best "stat sticks" in the tier, with a very high 135 Attack enhanced by both of its phenomenal abilities. 100/125/85 bulk is very difficult to kill when it can threaten many defensive Teras to flip its matchups. This replay from Stax's DWCOP game shows Papiloco being forced to throw one and a half Pokemon at it, including a double target, just on the lead, because of how irritating its bulk + strong priority is. It is one of the only Pokemon that is comfortable switching into Gholdengo, and threatens it with Sucker Punch. It has extremely positive matchups into Psyspam by virtue of underspeeding Armarouge and threatening both it and Indeedee with very high damage. I know it dodged a powder (xd) but this replay from Croven's DWCOP game shows this matchup very well, and it can enhance its Trick Room matchup by using Safety Goggles.

:scream-tail: Scream Tail 5 -> 3/4

Scream Tail has a lot of the game's strongest support moves with solid bulk and speed to back it up. It is able to start off the game strong with near-guaranteed Stealth Rock, and has Encore to dissuade the opponent from taking advantage of its passivity early. In this replay, after it sets SR at the beginning of the battle, Qwello is unable to force out the Scream Tail for a while thanks to the constant threat of Encore and Lily is able to paralyze his entire team with TWave. This replay from Kaori shows how offense can leverage Scream Tail's access to Fake Tears to make up for its lack of damage, as well as Encore forcing switch-outs to keep up aggression. There are definitely board states where this mon sucks aggressively bad but its wide movepool and great stat spread for a support Poke can be game winning in others.
 

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