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Metagame SV NFE Metagame Discussion - Vigoroth Ban @ Post #146

I dont have much to say so I will try to keep it brief, but CB Piloswine is absolutely too much for the tier. It simply does too much damage while its switch-ins either can't come in reliably or are otherwise passive and exploitable or otherwise can't repeatedly switch in.
 
Have been collecting some thoughts on the meta, and even if it's still UMPL, I feel like sharing some quick thoughts since I may not care after this tour is gone.

Piloswine always feels around broken or playable enough for me. From the teambuilding aspect, it's an absolute pain to handle. It always feels ass to use its checks and counters, but in-game, it feels doable as most teams built their teams in a way where Piloswine can't aggressively switch in and tends to have a mix of two mons that switch in based on base stat + typing, or bring one + two mons that each resist its stab while creating meaningful progress. So it always makes me wonder, is Piloswine itself broken, or is it taking advantage of overtuned and centralized faults in the meta? And what I've been leaning into is that Piloswine isn't too much and can be a healthy thing for the meta. Obviously, Piloswine is kinda of lame for punishing playstyles such as setup reliance offense(my favorite type of playstyle), but you could argue that it's a good thing, it prevents other playstyles from being overtuned, and it keeps other things to be more centralizing since Piloswine itself isn't that spammed much in teams.

So it comes down to taking advantage of the meta's faults, which makes more sense. Now what are these "faults" you ask? In my mind, it's these aspects that define or have to be respected in certain parts of the meta, which impacts building, and what are good teams or not.

:Koffing: aka Ngas Tspikes
T-spikes are either insanely overtuned or absolute garbage if the opponent team brings a poison type that outlasts them, nothing in between. Every t-spikes besides maybe Glimmet(but even then has healthy counterplay in the long term) has a much healthier way to play against, while Koffing is basically bringing a poison type or die, since Koffing teams are built in mind to outlast or restrict counterplay vs every playstyle. There is also everyone besides Ivysaur(and even then, it is questionable) is mediocre to use, so that if you aren't forced to slot a poison type for Koffing only, there would be easier counterplay not only on Piloswine, but other pokemon like fire/fighting mons. Piloswine takes absolute advantage of this aspect of the meta, as Piloswine counters are all weak to tspikes.

There have been teams without poison types that can win that are often designed to neglect the long-lasting aspect, and built to overwhelm, but those are only good for certain Koffing teams, and more defensively structured Koffing teams can destroy those teams.

If you're gonna suspect or ban this, it's obviously not gonna be t-spikes, and by smogon preferences, it's most likely gonna be koffing itself than ngas. For what it's worth, it's borderline as well, but I think koffing t-spikes is objectively unhealthy and makes the tier feel so restrictive.

:Tinkatuff:
This is a minor one, as the meta has been less mandatory on using Tinkatuff(see mine and pandadoux's usage on tinkatuff), but I think how it centralizes hazard control, invalidates hattrem and defoggers besides fletchinder(Which is still unfavoured vs tinkatuff due to para + knock off), it also helps Piloswine, as the options against Tinkatuff + Piloswine require two or more mons to handle against this core, as both of them have insane synergy with each other. I do think this isn't that big a problem due to Tinkatuff falling off, but her existence in the meta will always have an impact on the meta; you just cannot neglect it. Piloswine will always be buffed by her centralization.

There are probably more things that I may forget, but my point is that external factors make Piloswine too much for me, instead of the Pokémon itself. Is the meta volatile though? Idk really. Is the teambuilding aspect so restrictive that it makes building the tier more fishy? Most definitely yes IMO, and it's what makes the tier such a chore to play and build, really.
 
Post-UMPL teamdump as usual

Week 1 vs sleid (W)
:eelektrik::fraxure::frogadier::ivysaur::monferno::tinkatuff:
Another common robbery against sleid, game was cool and felt like i played well but got lucky and dodged a fire blast, for some reason all of my tour games vs sleid are like this lately lol so sorry again for this even tho it did not matter for either of our team in the end. Went for a kind of Offense because i felt like trying Fraxure and this mon is underrated asf

Week 2 vs Terracotta (W)
:drakloak::fletchinder::ivysaur::piloswine::seadra::sliggoo-hisui:
Terracotta was pretty recent to the tier so i just felt like bringing something really solid which paid off coz it felt like i was in control the whole game and my MU was gold

Week 3 vs Kingler (L)
:drakloak::eelektrik::fraxure::piloswine::stunky::thwackey:
I expected Offense but not this kind of offense and ended up with a pretty shitty MU imo, i felt like i played well and i could have won in the end if i went eel then drakloak but i had to gamble between shed skin & moxie and lost

Week 4 vs Shing G1 (L)
:dunsparce::hattrem::koffing::krokorok::quilladin::raboot:
This is where i got super busy with college and couldn't prep at all, i just brought a random team i built week 1 that i didn't test against shing in earlier weeks, felt like i played this game super bad but i did a mental reset for g2

Week 4 vs Shing G2 (W)
Week 4 vs Shing G3 (L)
:drakloak::fraxure::glimmet::monferno::morgrem::scraggy:
In tests Shing was super weak to my kind of Offense so i felt like bringing this team twice, g2 is just a 6-0 Scraggy like he just didn't expect this ig which is fair i don't feel like i'm particularly someone who brings offense a lot prior to this tour.
G3 was a lot closer, Monferno missing Focus Blast 3 times cost me the game because otherwise i won and it also cost us our qualification to playoffs since we would have won the win against Ambers lol but that's mon we got lucked and we also lucked other people

Week 5 vs Horii (L)
:duosion::ivysaur::krokorok::mareanie::piloswine::quaxwell:
That's another week where i really didn't have time to prep at all and our schedule availability was so awful the only time we were both available was like Monday in the afternoon lmao. As i said i didn't really prep i just picked a team i built Week 1 i had success with but my MU was pretty bad and i choked the endgame

Week 6 vs 5Dots (W)
:dusclops::fletchinder::girafarig::piloswine::quilladin::scraggy:
I was finally able to find time for this tour again and to prep, i feel like it paid off and i played fine, game was closer than it should have been imo but this win was absolutely massive because we were down 2-5 and one single lose would put us out of contention for playoffs instantly so that was the biggest clutch i've done for a team in any teamtour i think

Week 7 vs Dragonillis G1 (W)
:fletchinder::glimmet::scraggy::seadra::sliggoo-hisui::thwackey:
Last week and we needed to win the week to have a chance to get into playoffs so i had to tryhard asf both the prep and ingame, which i feel like really paid off, both of my MUs were really good and i feel like the i didn't play a game that well for a really long time so it was really refreshing

Week 7 vs Dragonillis G2 (W)
:duosion::fletchinder::piloswine::quaxwell::servine::stunky:
Same as above i felt like i played super well and the prep was good

Teams i didn't get to play
:drakloak::fraxure::gabite::glimmet::scraggy::wartortle:
This one was the team i planned to bring in case it went to g3 vs Dragonillis, pretty dumb HO with Gabite coz i felt like Drago was really weak to it
:dunsparce::growlithe-hisui::hattrem::koffing::krokorok::thwackey:
Surprisingly i had a lot of success with this team in tests, almost brought this one vs Horii which i feel like would have been way better than the one i brought but yeah growlithe actually works well
:chinchou::drakloak::dunsparce::fletchinder::hattrem::stunky:
This one is def sus like i don't think it's good but it's there ig

My opinion on the tier is that it's fun, a lot more diversed than before which is great but also still feels like nothing is broken or like we can't handle everything which is also great, TSpikes is annoying asf but whatever, Pilo Band is completely fine with me like yeah it's good at breaking but it's hard to put on the field imo since u need Choice Band to break, also i'm glad i was able to make Offense work again but Screens Offense seems like it has the potential to become completely broken.
 
Metagame feels the best it's been in a while. The advent of Seadra fixes a lot of my prior issues with the tier, while opening up new routes for builder expression due to the few unique disadvantages Seadra has in comparison to Quax. Bandpilo is still slightly absurd and Seadra is kind of a fake check if you're not also running Fletch or Thwackey/Servine. That said, it's not without its issues due to its lesser ability to hard into Tink, as well as its lack of bulk really making a difference especially on neutral hits from random stuff like Draco, Psychic, and EQ/HHP. Seadra is enough of a stopgap though, and whoever beats who kind of just comes down to better play. Bandpilo wins if you can get rocks up and make aggressive doubles in order to constantly pressure the opposing team, Seadra wins if it's able to carefully manage its resources and call out that aggression.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nfe-2476282204-ejb2bfwiflsovg9w16vabvs9lvp3qappw

Scraggy is unfun tho I don't like that guy. Feels like a matchup fish that's not amazing into certain staples (ivysaur, lorb thwackey, pignite-ish), it kind of pops off more than any singular mon ought to if the opponent doesn't have great counterplay. Taunt shuts down disruption from more passive staples like Tink, Koffing, Encore Quax, and Dunsparce (although tbf sparce doesn't want to stay in anyways else eat a nasty hjk/cc) meanwhile Shed Skin means that setting a layer of tspikes or otherwise paralyzing it with Hattrem or Drakloak the turn it tries to set up is not a very consistently viable means either. As of now, I don't think Scraggy is quite at a level where action should be taken, but if anything this is the mon to keep an eye on.
 
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