Out of curiosity and pardon my ignorance on the matter, but why moon blast over play rough given it's higher attack and other physical moves it can use like gunk shot?NominatingFezandipiti to B- rank. Yes, I think its superior to everything in C and below. It has been used 3 times in Wcop and won every time. With Beat Up and 6 healthy Mons, it has 88% to badly poison the opponent. Of course, every Poison immune Mon (Poison, Steels, Gliscor, Garganacl and Clef) wall Fezandipiti hard, but it has U-Turn to switch into something that threatens them. Fezandipiti is not be used on Defensive teams, its specifically a Defensive Mon for Bulky offensive teams. Set:
Fazan (Fezandipiti) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Water (this can be another Tera).
EVs: 248 HP / 196 SpD / 64 Spe
Calm Nature
- U-turn
- Moonblast
- Beat Up
- Roost
Mons Fezandipiti checks:
-Dragapult
-Zamazenta (without Heavy Slam)
-Darkrai
-Raging Bolt
-Primarina
-Enamorus
-Iron Valiant
-Skeledirge (why is this Mon A-, I haven,t seen it in ages)
-Walking Wake
-Serperior
-Zapdos
-Rotom-W
Additionally, as Poison Mon, it removes Toxic Spikes.
Despite being pretty stacked for moveslots, Fezandipiti can actually slap something instead of Moonblast to beat Mons it usually loses to. Since opponent doesn,t want to be poisoned, the switch-in of something immune to Poison can be easily predicted and Fezandipiti can either use U-Turn or use the surprise coverage.
(Theorymoning starts from here, I didn,t actually try this).
For Kingambit (most common Poison immune Mon), Fezandipiti can use Tera Fight + Double Kick:
0 Atk Tera Fighting Fezandipiti Double Kick (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 200-248 (58.6 - 72.7%) -- approx. 2HKO
For Glowking and Gholdengo it can use Tera Dark to hit harder with Beat Up (won,t post calcs here, since we would need to know Fezandipiti's teammates).
For every Steel except Heatran it can use Tera Fire + Heat Wave:
0 SpA Tera Fire Fezandipiti Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Corviknight: 174-206 (43.5 - 51.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Tera Fire Fezandipiti Heat Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 176-210 (51.6 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Tera Fire Fezandipiti Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gholdengo: 168-198 (44.4 - 52.3%) -- 18% chance to 2HKO
For Gliscor, Icy Wind is an option (no, don,t Tera Ice a defensive Mon):
0 SpA Fezandipiti Icy Wind vs. 244 HP / 16 SpD Gliscor: 148-176 (42 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
Heatran can be smashed by Tera Blast Ground, which will also hit hard Gholdengo, Glowking, Glimmora, Iron Moth and Clodsire, while giving an even better match-up vs Raging Bolt than usually.
Finally, for Clefable Fezandipiti can use the Poison STAB, with either Acid Spray or Poison Jab. Clefable itself can,t beat Fezandipiti with its common sets.
Therefore I think it has enough of a niche and isn,t as desperately walled as it looks.
-
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Resource SV OU Indigo Disk Viability Ranking Thread - (update on post #643)
- Thread starter ausma
- Start date
It has higher Attack, yes, but its still a defensive Mon that won,t hit hard except when the opponent lets it to. Therefore, its better to have accurate moves, especially if the secondary effect chance is higher (Moonblast has 30% to drop Special Attack, while Play Rough has only 10% to drop Attack on top of the 10% to miss).
Most of the Fairy weak mons (Tusk, Zamazenta) are more weak to Special moves too
Doggo is good yespls raise:
to S
to A+
to A
A-, at least!
Rain stuff
Pls drop:
to A
Doggo is OP, maybe even more than kingambit. Iron Valiant is always criminally downplayed. Destiny bond sets go 2 for 1 every game. That set ticking up is what prompts rises for me. Dragonite is the better roaring moon. Almost zamazenta levels of anti-offense. Encore sets are goofy. Ting-Lu — also should be banned. I don’t think it’s possible to stop this from getting 2 hazards up unless you have taunt? Treads is the new best lead? Bulky booster attack also nice. Crown. The AV set is bleh. I find the choice sets scarier and CM can instant GG. Just too low originally.
drops - landorus gotta be the most copy pasted Pokémon across all gens. If everything wasn’t uturn epower, rocks, then maybe I’d get it, but the ubiquity hurts it when you can take advantage of that set pretty easily. Roaring moon can’t OHKO the other bulky stuff and is therefore useless. Actually… eh moon is way better than landorus. What am I saying.
oh and rain is good despite raging bolt existing bc iron treads is good, barra flip turn is OP, and there is no counter play to raging bolt under rain
However it is no where near as infuriating as kingambit and the 50/50
Surprise! With WCOP freshly over, we have a new slate fully voted upon and aggregated for your viewing. Here are the results:
Newly Added
UR to B
UR to B-
-
UR to C+
UR to C+
UR to C
-
UR to D
UR to D
UR to D
Rises
S- to S
-
A to A+
A to A+
A to A+
A- to A
A- to A
-
B+ to A-
B+ to A
B+ to A-
B to B+
B to B+
B- to B
B- to A-
B- to A-
B- to B
B- to B
-
C+ to B-
C to C+
C to C+
C to B-
-
D to C
D to C
D to C+
D to C
Drops
S to S-
S- to A+
S- to A+
-
A+ to A
A to A-
A- to B+
A- to B+
A- to B+
A- to B+
A- to B
A- to B
-
B+ to B
B+ to B
B to B-
B to B-
B to B-
B to C+
B to C+
B to B-
B to B-
B- to C+
B- to C+
-
C+ to C
C to D
C to D
C to D
C to D
-
D to UR
D to UR
Major Changes
UR to B
(+5 Subrankings) !!!!!!
In arguably one of the biggest ranking placements from UR, Ninetales has shown itself to be not just an alternative to Torkoal, but on the same level as a Sun setter. There are three big differences that make it worth it: its Speed tier, Encore, and Healing Wish. Encore is a nice tool, as shown incessantly all generation, but it cannot be stated how valuable Healing Wish is for Sun teams that often trade HP for KOs. Common Sun staples like Gouging Fire and Raging Bolt can suddenly come back from the brink of death, ready to rip your team apart all over again. While Ninetales may not have Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, or the bulk you expect of Torkoal, the tradeoffs are worth it in the context of the structure's game plan!
UR to B-
(+4 Subrankings)
For those who aren't too familiar with high ladder, Okidogi's meteoric rise may seem perplexing. Okidogi's highly relevant defensive typing into Darkrai and Zamazenta, great mixed bulk, and Knock Off are obviously great tools throughout the game, and they have very versatile applications! But, a major key to its success comes in the form of Guard Dog, a highly anti-meta ability that blocks phazing and boosts Attack when hit by Intimidate. Roar has been an extremely common move in the metagame lately as a way to automatically win setup mirrors, most commonly seen with Zamazenta, but phazing is also quite common among Pokemon like Gouging Fire, Red Card Glimmora, and Great Tusk. Okidogi's great defensive profile and access to STAB Drain Punch lets it 1v1 Iron Defense Zamazenta, too. Aside from this set, it can lean into its defensive profile and Toxic Chain to rock a mean Assault Vest set to provide reinforcement into Darkrai structures.
UR to C+
(+3 Subrankings)
Overqwil is a remarkably unique Rain abuser, being a Swift Swim Pokemon that doesn't naturally have Water-type STAB. This is inherently interesting, but the resistance profile is really important, improving Rain's matchup into Pokemon like Kingambit and Gholdengo while not stacking weaknesses. In fact, it even outright resists Grass, letting it remedy one of Rain's worst matchups in Rillaboom. As a Swords Dance user, it can utilize Liquidation as a third move to remove Great Tusk and Landorus-T which would otherwise survive the onslaught of its boosted STABs. It is a bit reliant on good positioning and needs Life Orb to truly attain its threatening heights, but it brings a unique set of qualities for the structure that are worth noting.
UR to C+
(+3 Subrankings)
Fezandipiti has had some pretty tangible WCOP success, and a lot of that can be attributed to its elite defensive profile, but more importantly, its synergy with Toxic Chain, spreading Toxic with little needed effort thanks to Beat Up and U-turn, and finding many opportunities to spread status by taking advantage of a massive range of Pokemon like Darkrai, Special Kyurem, Primarina, Iron Valiant, Raging Bolt, etc etc. Although it needs a bit more to rise beyond a hype phase, the fundamentals for a bulky offense backbone are very much there.
B- to A-
(+3 Subrankings)
Sinistcha's success story is really one to admire. Just last slate, we saw it spring from UR to B-, and its high ladder/ WCOP performance have shown that Sinistcha is a serious OU-caliber Pokemon. It rises up to A- for very similar reasons as last time, except now its services are even more valuable in the wake of Zamazenta and Ogerpon-Wellspring's recent dominance in the tier.
B- to A-
(+3 Subrankings)
Tinkaton, too, experiences an explosive rise for a similar reason as Sinistcha; simply, the metagame has come to appreciate its services far more. A major appeal is its Darkrai matchup, being one of few Pokemon to withstand the wrath of its set variety, while also being able to provide a blanket check for a vast majority of the tier as a result of its fast Encore/Thunder Wave and its highly valuable defensive typing. The combination of Air Balloon and Pickpocket has shown to be particularly useful as of late, stripping Heavy-Duty Boots and Rocky Helmets without requiring use of Knock Off. This can be a massive boon for hazard stacking structures, as well as itself by opening up its moveslots. It has proven to be a serious Pokemon for offensive and bulkier structures alike, so a rise to A- is a great reflection of its recent success in defensive role compression and unique progress-making mechanisms.
B+ to A
(+2 Subrankings)
A lot of Moltres's success can be attributed to its inherent strength, defensive typing, and most importantly, Flame Body. This makes it an absurdly flexible defensive Pokemon that can utilize its resistance to U-turn and generally positive matchup into Pokemon like Dragonite, Kingambit, and Libero Cinderace to spread status. It isn't just a burn bot, though; its Flamethrower stings, and it has access to tools like Roar and a secondary Flying-type STAB to exert pressure and better protect teams into setup sweepers like Zamazenta, all while always having intrinsic defensive merit. Moltres has had incredible success in WCOP and high ladder, rising proper into OU just this month, and deservedly so.
C to B-
(+2 Subrankings)
Pecharunt is a comically bulky spinblocker and disruptor, capable of spreading Toxic poison with ease with an annoying side effect inconfusion, and boasting access to STAB Hex to always have an inherent threat factor. It mainly operates in matchups where Kingambit is absent or greatly limited, which have become more commonplace in recent weeks, but even in these matchups, it has access to Parting Shot to enable a teammate. Pecharunt is a solid choice on Hazard stacking structures, and has seen some noticeable usage on higher ladder as of late.
D to C+
(+2 Subrankings)
Lokix was originally ranked for its effectively unresisted Knock Off, high-power priority, and high-power pivoting. While this hasn't quite changed, it has become more noticeably potent, smiting many offensive structures while having a bit of fringe defensive utility in its typing thanks to being able to invest heavily into bulk. Lokix is your best choice for an offensive pivot if you are in need of priority and item disruption in one fell swoop.
UR to C
(+2 Subrankings)
Slither Wing's defensive profile and access to options like Will-O-Wisp and longevity in Morning Sun make it a beast of a wall, letting teams check Pokemon like Great Tusk, Kingambit, and Zamazenta. What makes it more than just a gimmicky wall, though, is the fact that it rocks a beastly STAB U-turn and First Impression, letting it revenge kill Pokemon that normally it would not want to contest like Darkrai and Deoxys-Speed, and force switches that it can then follow up upon with its U-turn. It can lean into this on Sun, too, utilizing its Fighting-type STAB and strong coverage with Protosynthesis to operate as a menacing offensive pivot with an AV to utilize its resistances more aggressively into offense. Although it still has a lot to prove, it has the tools to succeed in the right conditions.
A- to B
(-2 Subrankings)
It's not necessarily that Skeledirge sucks, but moreso that it lives and dies by the matchup and its Tera type. It can be an excellent win condition for bulkier structures, but it is extremely easy to disrupt and even easier to maneuver around with how much threatens it pre-Tera. It requires good teammates that aren't reliant on Tera to operate in a majority of cases and are also willing to stomach the Knock Offs and status that dismantle it in the long run. This support isn't super hard to provide, but the reward isn't super worth it when there are better choices for Unaware like Clodsire.
A- to B
(-2 Subrankings)
Torkoal's drop is less indicative of its own potency at its job, but more a reflection of Sun's viability in general. It is a solidly viable strategy, but the fact of the matter is that it has a good deal of awkward matchups that make it highly volatile. This is also a reflection of its duality with Ninetales, a Drought competitor that it now has come to share viability with.
B to C+
(-2 Subrankings)
Keldeo offers a lot to the tier, and certainly has a niche that must be respected, but it's hard to deny that its Speed tier and awkward moveslot situation limit it greatly.
B to C+
(-2 Subrankings)
Latias as a bulky setup sweeper is really tantalizing on paper, but the fact is that it is reliant on Tera and needs a good deal of turns to get going. This not only makes it very committal, but it makes the current metagame climate that is full to the brim with disruptive tools like Encore, Thunder Wave, and phazing incredibly hostile toward its primary gameplan.
As always, we are going to have about 24 hours for questions to roll in and for the council to answer. Please be sure to read the Major Changes spoiler tag to see if your question has already been answered, or search for it in the thread if not. Repeat questions will be ignored!
Newly Added
UR to B UR to B--
UR to C+ UR to C+ UR to C-
UR to D UR to D UR to DRises
S- to S-
A to A+ A to A+ A to A+ A- to A A- to A-
B+ to A- B+ to A B+ to A- B to B+ B to B+ B- to B B- to A- B- to A- B- to B B- to B-
C+ to B- C to C+ C to C+ C to B--
D to C D to C D to C+ D to CDrops
S to S- S- to A+ S- to A+-
A+ to A A to A- A- to B+ A- to B+ A- to B+ A- to B+ A- to B A- to B-
B+ to B B+ to B B to B- B to B- B to B- B to C+ B to C+ B to B- B to B- B- to C+ B- to C+-
C+ to C C to D C to D C to D C to D-
D to UR D to URMajor Changes
UR to B(+5 Subrankings) !!!!!!
In arguably one of the biggest ranking placements from UR, Ninetales has shown itself to be not just an alternative to Torkoal, but on the same level as a Sun setter. There are three big differences that make it worth it: its Speed tier, Encore, and Healing Wish. Encore is a nice tool, as shown incessantly all generation, but it cannot be stated how valuable Healing Wish is for Sun teams that often trade HP for KOs. Common Sun staples like Gouging Fire and Raging Bolt can suddenly come back from the brink of death, ready to rip your team apart all over again. While Ninetales may not have Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, or the bulk you expect of Torkoal, the tradeoffs are worth it in the context of the structure's game plan!
UR to B-(+4 Subrankings)
For those who aren't too familiar with high ladder, Okidogi's meteoric rise may seem perplexing. Okidogi's highly relevant defensive typing into Darkrai and Zamazenta, great mixed bulk, and Knock Off are obviously great tools throughout the game, and they have very versatile applications! But, a major key to its success comes in the form of Guard Dog, a highly anti-meta ability that blocks phazing and boosts Attack when hit by Intimidate. Roar has been an extremely common move in the metagame lately as a way to automatically win setup mirrors, most commonly seen with Zamazenta, but phazing is also quite common among Pokemon like Gouging Fire, Red Card Glimmora, and Great Tusk. Okidogi's great defensive profile and access to STAB Drain Punch lets it 1v1 Iron Defense Zamazenta, too. Aside from this set, it can lean into its defensive profile and Toxic Chain to rock a mean Assault Vest set to provide reinforcement into Darkrai structures.
UR to C+(+3 Subrankings)
Overqwil is a remarkably unique Rain abuser, being a Swift Swim Pokemon that doesn't naturally have Water-type STAB. This is inherently interesting, but the resistance profile is really important, improving Rain's matchup into Pokemon like Kingambit and Gholdengo while not stacking weaknesses. In fact, it even outright resists Grass, letting it remedy one of Rain's worst matchups in Rillaboom. As a Swords Dance user, it can utilize Liquidation as a third move to remove Great Tusk and Landorus-T which would otherwise survive the onslaught of its boosted STABs. It is a bit reliant on good positioning and needs Life Orb to truly attain its threatening heights, but it brings a unique set of qualities for the structure that are worth noting.
UR to C+(+3 Subrankings)
Fezandipiti has had some pretty tangible WCOP success, and a lot of that can be attributed to its elite defensive profile, but more importantly, its synergy with Toxic Chain, spreading Toxic with little needed effort thanks to Beat Up and U-turn, and finding many opportunities to spread status by taking advantage of a massive range of Pokemon like Darkrai, Special Kyurem, Primarina, Iron Valiant, Raging Bolt, etc etc. Although it needs a bit more to rise beyond a hype phase, the fundamentals for a bulky offense backbone are very much there.
B- to A-(+3 Subrankings)
Sinistcha's success story is really one to admire. Just last slate, we saw it spring from UR to B-, and its high ladder/ WCOP performance have shown that Sinistcha is a serious OU-caliber Pokemon. It rises up to A- for very similar reasons as last time, except now its services are even more valuable in the wake of Zamazenta and Ogerpon-Wellspring's recent dominance in the tier.
B- to A-(+3 Subrankings)
Tinkaton, too, experiences an explosive rise for a similar reason as Sinistcha; simply, the metagame has come to appreciate its services far more. A major appeal is its Darkrai matchup, being one of few Pokemon to withstand the wrath of its set variety, while also being able to provide a blanket check for a vast majority of the tier as a result of its fast Encore/Thunder Wave and its highly valuable defensive typing. The combination of Air Balloon and Pickpocket has shown to be particularly useful as of late, stripping Heavy-Duty Boots and Rocky Helmets without requiring use of Knock Off. This can be a massive boon for hazard stacking structures, as well as itself by opening up its moveslots. It has proven to be a serious Pokemon for offensive and bulkier structures alike, so a rise to A- is a great reflection of its recent success in defensive role compression and unique progress-making mechanisms.
B+ to A(+2 Subrankings)
A lot of Moltres's success can be attributed to its inherent strength, defensive typing, and most importantly, Flame Body. This makes it an absurdly flexible defensive Pokemon that can utilize its resistance to U-turn and generally positive matchup into Pokemon like Dragonite, Kingambit, and Libero Cinderace to spread status. It isn't just a burn bot, though; its Flamethrower stings, and it has access to tools like Roar and a secondary Flying-type STAB to exert pressure and better protect teams into setup sweepers like Zamazenta, all while always having intrinsic defensive merit. Moltres has had incredible success in WCOP and high ladder, rising proper into OU just this month, and deservedly so.
C to B-(+2 Subrankings)
Pecharunt is a comically bulky spinblocker and disruptor, capable of spreading Toxic poison with ease with an annoying side effect inconfusion, and boasting access to STAB Hex to always have an inherent threat factor. It mainly operates in matchups where Kingambit is absent or greatly limited, which have become more commonplace in recent weeks, but even in these matchups, it has access to Parting Shot to enable a teammate. Pecharunt is a solid choice on Hazard stacking structures, and has seen some noticeable usage on higher ladder as of late.
D to C+(+2 Subrankings)
Lokix was originally ranked for its effectively unresisted Knock Off, high-power priority, and high-power pivoting. While this hasn't quite changed, it has become more noticeably potent, smiting many offensive structures while having a bit of fringe defensive utility in its typing thanks to being able to invest heavily into bulk. Lokix is your best choice for an offensive pivot if you are in need of priority and item disruption in one fell swoop.
UR to C(+2 Subrankings)
Slither Wing's defensive profile and access to options like Will-O-Wisp and longevity in Morning Sun make it a beast of a wall, letting teams check Pokemon like Great Tusk, Kingambit, and Zamazenta. What makes it more than just a gimmicky wall, though, is the fact that it rocks a beastly STAB U-turn and First Impression, letting it revenge kill Pokemon that normally it would not want to contest like Darkrai and Deoxys-Speed, and force switches that it can then follow up upon with its U-turn. It can lean into this on Sun, too, utilizing its Fighting-type STAB and strong coverage with Protosynthesis to operate as a menacing offensive pivot with an AV to utilize its resistances more aggressively into offense. Although it still has a lot to prove, it has the tools to succeed in the right conditions.
A- to B(-2 Subrankings)
It's not necessarily that Skeledirge sucks, but moreso that it lives and dies by the matchup and its Tera type. It can be an excellent win condition for bulkier structures, but it is extremely easy to disrupt and even easier to maneuver around with how much threatens it pre-Tera. It requires good teammates that aren't reliant on Tera to operate in a majority of cases and are also willing to stomach the Knock Offs and status that dismantle it in the long run. This support isn't super hard to provide, but the reward isn't super worth it when there are better choices for Unaware like Clodsire.
A- to B(-2 Subrankings)
Torkoal's drop is less indicative of its own potency at its job, but more a reflection of Sun's viability in general. It is a solidly viable strategy, but the fact of the matter is that it has a good deal of awkward matchups that make it highly volatile. This is also a reflection of its duality with Ninetales, a Drought competitor that it now has come to share viability with.
B to C+(-2 Subrankings)
Keldeo offers a lot to the tier, and certainly has a niche that must be respected, but it's hard to deny that its Speed tier and awkward moveslot situation limit it greatly.
B to C+(-2 Subrankings)
Latias as a bulky setup sweeper is really tantalizing on paper, but the fact is that it is reliant on Tera and needs a good deal of turns to get going. This not only makes it very committal, but it makes the current metagame climate that is full to the brim with disruptive tools like Encore, Thunder Wave, and phazing incredibly hostile toward its primary gameplan.
As always, we are going to have about 24 hours for questions to roll in and for the council to answer. Please be sure to read the Major Changes spoiler tag to see if your question has already been answered, or search for it in the thread if not. Repeat questions will be ignored!
What changed for Tealpon to warrant it rising to A-? And was Cornerstone up for discussion for a rise at all?
Also, was Walking Wake not dropping primarily because of other sets (particularly that Knock/Flip Turn one) popping up that don't need to be supported by Torkoal/Ninetales?
Sinistcha has amazing match up into the top tier mons like zamazenta, dragonite, great tusk and ogerpon, but its also deceptively good into things it should be weak to like kingambit, gholdengo, darkrai, gouging fire, roaring moon and iron moth. It can burn the physical darks with matcha gacha on the switch and with tera it can 1v1 gambit/roaring moon with strength sap and calm mind if you burn them, but the best set right now is stun spore, u can paralyze the incoming breakers like moth or darkrai with it making them way more vulnerable and no longer able to sweep (since matcha is usually used on balance teams, paralyzing balance breakers that want to switch into matcha is amazing).
Its great match up into top tier threats and ability to be used in both balance and offensive teams alike makes it a really good pokemon.
For Ogerpon-Cornerstone, its viability has not changed much at all, still a good breaker on more offensive teams into balance but has pretty poor defensive typing, its not bad, but not top tier either.
For wake, yea pretty much but also the booster energy sets, its much rarer these days but its still amazing and somewhat underrated.
My apologies; I was talking about Ogerpon-Teal, not the teapot LOL
Thanks for clarifying the rest though!
Why did these two drop? I feel like serperior has been experimented with a lot more using stuff such as knock off, synthesis and dragon pulse (and protect which can stall out many playstyles that rely on limited turns such as rain, sun, terrain and even tr) while its good waterpon matchup and glare utility is better then ever.
Barraskweda on the otherhand is basically essential on rain (I don't think I've seen a successful rain team without it) but pelipper didn't also drop, as they usually are ranked together. In fact, rain teams have been getting better as they have expanded into new frontiers like specs torn-t, jolteon and even johto qwilfish being used.
Ogerpon’s regular form has been a good glue Pokemon, providing Knock and Encore with the option the serve as an RKer/stopper with Tera in a pinch. It’s just solid on the many balance/BO teams that need that role. It also has some SD showings recently, too.
RKer?
When will action be taken against mons like Kyu? Talks have dried up on it. Like a survey, or something.
Revenge Killer
I’d argue Rain teams aren’t getting better, but rather maintaining overall viability while showing slightly less with the known 6 and expanding to slightly different configurations between those options you mentioned and Specs Pelipper, which doesn’t lend as well to Skewda. This is reflected within the rankings imo.
Serp I think I voted to roughly stay the same. It’s not great, but it’s annoying and it serves a decent role checking non-Uturn Waterpon. It’s debatable for sure.
This is the VR thread; it has nothing to do with bans or anything tiering related.
With this said, we just had a survey recently and it clearly wasn’t the most supported Pokemon. Talks dried up on it to focus on other things. It’s still on my radar and I still think it’s very strong, but it hasn’t been ignored previously and it won’t be moving forward — we just have been progressively doing our due diligence.
What's keeping Pult above the mons in A+?
Why isn't Muk-Alola in the set while mons like Scream Tail, Wo, Chien Bellibolt or Suicune are?
A-Muk excepting the Gliscor matchup has a lot of really good traits in the tier, spreading Knock-Off while maybe poisoning alongside insane chance of poison with Poison Fang + Poison Touch. As a Poison type of course it removes the T-Spikes that Glimmora spread (and can check a half health one due to not being even 2HKO by Earth Power)
A double on really common pivots like Slowking-G, Moltres, Zapdos, Hatterene, Dondozo, Clefable, Skarm, Alomomola always makes progress and can punish with a poison or make Moltres/Zapdos lose its boots and therefore really annoy them. Sits on Slowking G and Hatterene particularly.
Due to the mentioned Knock + Poison, common switches that could cripple it, force it out or pivot like Lando-T, Corv, Tusk, Ting Lu or Garg get punished due to it.
Defeats Darkrai by itself with draining punch even if it gets burned, defeats Hex Pult by itself, checks Gholdengo and Special Val (can also leave a huge mark or even win Mix Val), and also eats Deoxys-D for breakdfast. Forces tera on Sinistcha or just demolishes it 1v1, also forces tera on the really used bulky gouging fire. Kingambit and Weavile can switch in due to Drain Punch really damaging one and outright killing the other. Resists both Meowscarada's stabs so it can also check it. Also really cheaps Iron Moth or with luck it can outright win it (if not tera ground)
Dnite cannot set up freely due to poison really punishing it, same with Roaring Moon and Waterpon. Even non-rest Zamazenta can't really safely switch in due to this. c
Checks Gholdengo of course, checks Iron Crown, checks regular Ogerpon, checks Rilla, checks Volcanion and Latios, checks Boots kyurem (and can tank specs at least once, it lives 2 ice beams so it can knock the specs and making it a lot more manageable), threatens Primarina, can potentially win or at least really cripple Raging Bolt 1v1, can pivot on Enamorus if you are careful of Earth Power and force her out (or she dies). It has a lot of good matchups in the tier
Also insane aganist niche picks like Toxapex (sits on them), Greninja (demolishes Ash Gren Life/orb specs sets) or Hydrapple.
A-Muk excepting the Gliscor matchup has a lot of really good traits in the tier, spreading Knock-Off while maybe poisoning alongside insane chance of poison with Poison Fang + Poison Touch. As a Poison type of course it removes the T-Spikes that Glimmora spread (and can check a half health one due to not being even 2HKO by Earth Power)
A double on really common pivots like Slowking-G, Moltres, Zapdos, Hatterene, Dondozo, Clefable, Skarm, Alomomola always makes progress and can punish with a poison or make Moltres/Zapdos lose its boots and therefore really annoy them. Sits on Slowking G and Hatterene particularly.
Due to the mentioned Knock + Poison, common switches that could cripple it, force it out or pivot like Lando-T, Corv, Tusk, Ting Lu or Garg get punished due to it.
Defeats Darkrai by itself with draining punch even if it gets burned, defeats Hex Pult by itself, checks Gholdengo and Special Val (can also leave a huge mark or even win Mix Val), and also eats Deoxys-D for breakdfast. Forces tera on Sinistcha or just demolishes it 1v1, also forces tera on the really used bulky gouging fire. Kingambit and Weavile can switch in due to Drain Punch really damaging one and outright killing the other. Resists both Meowscarada's stabs so it can also check it. Also really cheaps Iron Moth or with luck it can outright win it (if not tera ground)
Dnite cannot set up freely due to poison really punishing it, same with Roaring Moon and Waterpon. Even non-rest Zamazenta can't really safely switch in due to this. c
Checks Gholdengo of course, checks Iron Crown, checks regular Ogerpon, checks Rilla, checks Volcanion and Latios, checks Boots kyurem (and can tank specs at least once, it lives 2 ice beams so it can knock the specs and making it a lot more manageable), threatens Primarina, can potentially win or at least really cripple Raging Bolt 1v1, can pivot on Enamorus if you are careful of Earth Power and force her out (or she dies). It has a lot of good matchups in the tier
Also insane aganist niche picks like Toxapex (sits on them), Greninja (demolishes Ash Gren Life/orb specs sets) or Hydrapple.
Torn-T rise? What changed with it to rise it from B- to B? Is Assault vest sets seeing usage and the advent of specs torn on rain a factor?
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Oh I'm sorry! I thought this was Simple Q & A! I wasn't paying attention.
?Okay, I'll elaborate a little;
Muk remains in D, but why? Its Sticky Hold niche is not exclusive, being competed with Hydrapple and Gastrodon, while the evolution of stall structures easily places Clefable as the second most viable Knock Off absorb.
I still mention how Muk is exploitable by Gliscor and dependent on Rest.
Komala has unique niches blocking status-abusing passive threats and preventing simple Future Sight builds from making progress. It also ignores Neutralizing Gas which corrupts most stall teams that rely heavily on its abilities.
Komala needs to be introduced in D or Muk's position needs to be revisited.
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I would suspect it's the hex set keeping so much in line, that keeps its ranking so high
Great Tusk is not hard to overwhelm with all the roles it's supposed to fill. Committing to using Rapid Spin in this highly offensive meta is difficult since so many mons on offense threaten Tusk to a great degree, especially with the popularity of special attacking HO builds. Great Tusk is very prone to getting chipped throughout a battle to the point it can't do what you had intended it to do.
It's easier to forego Rapid Spin and play with Zamazenta, which checks more offensive threats with its higher speed off the bat and Iron defense. With the current level of threat saturation, Zama's role as a glue mon that blanket checks most physical attackers is more valuable than Tusk's niche as a spinner that checks a number of offensive threats such as Kingambit and Gholdengo.
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Yeah defensive tusk isn't as good as it could be. Still a premiere offensive threat though just not the premiere offensive and defensive tool it once was back in the days of early sv ou.