Resource SV OU Indigo Disk Viability Ranking Thread - (update on post #643)

I don't think Boots Lokix is good, it's really lacking in power when it doesn't have an offensive item. It doesn't need to be Band, Life Orb, Insect Plate or even Rocky Helmet (to lead vs Sash Hisuian Samurott, if Samurott dies by Rocky Helmet, Spikes are not put) can work just fine. Just assume with Lokix that you need good hazard control (Corvi + Tusk, Tusk + Ace, Treads + Ace, Glimm + Tusk, Glimm + Treads, unviable Maushold or even Ace alone if it's Tera Ice).
Another thing to keep in mind with Lokix is that as he either uses priority moves or forces switches most of the time... you don't actually need Max Speed on it and with some bulk it will actually live some neutral hits. This is not even my idea, but Highv0ltag3 has been toying with bulky Lokix in wcop and it wasn't bad at all.
 
Eeveeto said:
I don't think Boots Lokix is good, it's really lacking in power when it doesn't have an offensive item. It doesn't need to be Band, Life Orb, Insect Plate or even Rocky Helmet (to lead vs Sash Hisuian Samurott, if Samurott dies by Rocky Helmet, Spikes are not put) can work just fine. Just assume with Lokix that you need good hazard control (Corvi + Tusk, Tusk + Ace, Treads + Ace, Glimm + Tusk, Glimm + Treads, unviable Maushold or even Ace alone if it's Tera Ice).
Another thing to keep in mind with Lokix is that as he either uses priority moves or forces switches most of the time... you don't actually need Max Speed on it and with some bulk it will actually live some neutral hits. This is not even my idea, but Highv0ltag3 has been toying with bulky Lokix in wcop and it wasn't bad at all.
Click to expand...
Interesting helmet usage
 
Been playing a lot more ladder lately now that I've had time to sit down and build and experiment, and have some noms to make

:Rillaboom: A- -> B+
Maybe it's my imagination but I've been seeing less of this mon. Despite the offensive inclination of the metagame, its priority just isn't very helpful when many offensive threats are either resistant to grass, especially x4 such as Moth or Dragonite, or it gives set up to bulkier set up threats like Gounging Fire, Bolt, Kingambit and Zama (and Dragonite/Moth) once Rilla locks into Glide. And it needs that CB boost or it's simply not able to threaten offensive threats well enough, while it also no longer scares bulkier teams with its wood hammer nearly as much (not to mention the proliferation of Moltres, new Corv usage and the presence of Protect Garg who just scouts you and pivots accordingly). Rilla also has very shallow defensive utility, struggling to come into things that aren't Wellspring (who can still pressure it with Power Whip) and hazards cut into its poor longevity. It just doesn't feel at all close to an A- mon, and as a grass is even questionable compared to using Sinistcha or Ogerpon-Teal.

:Garganacl: A -> A+
This mon's value is huge in such an offense heavy tier, and when no cloak is seen for miles. Really important mon on defensive teams that helps hold them together but also one of the most impossible mons to switch into because Salt Cure is cracked. Also feels like there's room for new innovation on sets beyond standards already known but that's not relevant here.

:Blaziken: B- -> B
You may have seen a couple games of this mon using a strange crit-based set with Focus Energy+Razor Claw (I believe?), and while it's a little unorthodox it's also alright and has shown to be mildly effective at pushing solid progress onto opposing teams, especially because it's good at taking advantage of those expecting traditional SD sets. It's still not great, but I think it's a tiny bit better than before.
 
The VR is in need of a cleanup. Considering we’re a week away from the playoffs, I think this is a good time to make noms. Hot takes incoming.


:sv/landorus-therian: A+ > S-
Hot take, but Lando is the best it’s ever been in SV OU. This mon has been the premier glue mon on offensive teams for months now. A majority of offenses used in OLT have a Lando. Stupidly good at getting rocks up and blanket checks half the meta on its own with Intimidate and top 5 defensive typing. As the meta progresses, Lando iconic traits only become better. We’ve already had showings of offensive Lando with Stone Edge and/or Tera Ice Blast to muscle through traditional checks, and Choice Scarf Lando as a surprise speed control option that can compress rocks and U-Turn, thus Lando is less one-note. It fits on multiple styles, always does something per game, has fantastic synergy with other offensive threats while bringing them in safely, it’s Lando. As a result of Lando being more versatile and a key component on the most used playstyle in SV OU, I’ll be nominating Lando to S-.

:sv/cinderace: A > A+
I believe Cinderace is hands down an A+ rank mon. Its offensive synergy with the best breakers in the tier is immaculate as its an overtuned U-Turn button that pivots in front of Mola, Garg, Lando, G-Fire, etc and into something dangerous like Kyurem. This pairing has seen high usage in OLT with players spamming teams like CTC ’s Sub-Tect Kyu Fat or bbeeaa ’s Scarf Moon Offense. Cinder has also seen higher usage due to Spike stacking builds making a ressurnence with Samu being spammed throughout OLT, thus Court Change sees more value. Outside of super sturdy resists like Mola, Garg, and Moltres who are all U-Turn bait for its teammates, most offensive Fire resists don’t like to eat a Pyro and a potential U-Turn right after. Either they’re physically frail or Wisp targets. I think all these traits warrant a rise.

:sv/iron_moth: A > A+
Its glaring weaknesses to rocks and physical fragility hasn’t stopped Moth from snowballing teams, but what has been responsible for Moth’s increased usage in OLT is its utility. Moth provides speed control, a Fairy resist, a Tspike absorber, and being a check to common mainstays like Ghold, Darkrai, and Zama. Offense has great hazard control options which makes splashing Moth onto HO/BO much easier. On top of this, Moth is an anti-cheese mon with good matchups into Webs and Sun. All this without mentioning how quickly Moth can get out of control with Fiery boosts and Teras. There are ofc checks like Ting-Lu, AV Prim, and Gking, but you often find it paired with other dangerous special threats like Darkrai, Bolt, and Prim which can chip down or even eliminate these threats. Plus Moth can tech options like Tera Grass/Fairy for Ting-Lu, or Tera Blast Ground/Tera Dark for Glowking. Only Stall is truly safe vs the Moth. What’s more important is that Tran is shit rn, making it easier to forgo Tera Ground in favor for different Teras and coverage options.

:sv/weavile: A > A-
I respect Weavile, but it’s too high on the VR. It really hates the increased usage of Tinkaton, it’s bad into Mola, and Prima can come in to throw off hits. Needing Low Kick for Gambit makes it harder for it to break traditional checks such as the aforementioned Mola. It doesn’t help that it has to compete with Darkrai as a fast offensive Dark type. Weavile is still good. Ice Shard is incredible with all the Dragons and Ice weak targets in the tier. It’s an excellent Knocker and can even switch into the popular Sub-Tect Kyurem set once or twice.

:sv/enamorus: A- > B+
I don’t think Enamorus is as good as Big Chiken claims. Scarf Enam is pretty mid outside of Healing Wish shenanigans. Terrible vs standard and AV Glowking builds and if you have an HO that gets 6-0d by Moonblast, then you just made a bad HO. Specs and CM have their merit, but competition is stiff with Val and Prima who also have similar niches. Trends like AV Mola and Crown also aren’t kind to Enamorus.

:sv/walking_wake: A- > B+
Wake isn’t an A- threat. It’s the premier Sun mon and the Boots set has its place on Spike Stack, but Wake is ranked a bit too high.

:sv/heatran: B+ > B
Tran should not be in the same tier as goats like Zapdos and Rockpon. It has never been easier to switch into Heatran. Between Moltres, Primarina, Samurott, Ogerpon, Tera Water Garg, Ting-Lu, and Mola, Tran has a harder time breaking holes. Being a Steel that instantly dies to Kyurem’s Earth Power is absolutely miserable. As a special wall, its incredibly hazard weak and banks on a 75% accurate move to hit them. Plus most of them have coverage to smack Tran. It does have some merit like switching into Wisp Pult and Tera Blast-less Moth, but it’s inconsistent and has to deal with several problems in the current meta.

:sv/latios: B+ > B
I think Latios has some good traits such as Levitate freeing up an item slot, Tera Steel hard walls most Kyurems, and Soul Dew Dracos/Psychic STAB hitting like a freight train, but imo it’s ranked too high. It has to compete with Pult, Kyurem, and Bolt as a specially offensive dragon. Kyurem itself is not only competition, but the increased usage of Crown and Tinkaton it brought means Latios has a harder time actually breaking. Latios can brute force Ghold, but AV Crown and Tinka are just too bulky. Also gives stuff like Ting-Lu Spiking opportunities.

:scizor: B+ > B
:volcanion: B+ > B
:hawlucha: B > B-
:ninetales-alola: B > B-
:pelipper: B > B-
:tornadus_therian: B > B-
:blaziken: B- > C+

Nothing against these mons, I just think they were ranked too high initially. Not gonna go into specifics unless prompted.

:sv/greninja: B > B+
Greninja is what happens when Iron Moth and Darkrai have a love child. A fast offensive Dark type with the ability to snowball after a single turn. +1 Gren outspeeds everything minus Boulder, and 123+ Scarfers. What sets it apart from Darkrai is that its Water STAB threatens OHKOs on the trending Cinderace and Moltres which Darkrai can’t do. Greninja is amazing at punishing sacks and cleaning up the popular team builds in OLT. Surf + Gunk also OHKOs AV Prim, as that is one of the few mons on offense that want to take its STABs. Greninja can also hax through shit with Dpulse similarly to Darkrai.

:sv/hoopa_unbound: B > B+
If you examine the trends of OLT and the overall meta, they’re very favorable to AV Hoopa. Switches into Sub-Tect Kyu, Crown, Darkrai, Moth, Deo-S, Ghold, Glowking, and Zapdos which is a big portion of the tier. Kyurem and Moth in particular are trending. All this while functioning as a breaker. In Cycle 3 of OLT, there’s an increased number of players loading up with Balance, and while Hoopa isn’t a world destroyer in the same vein as Ursaluna, Hoopa’s has several entry points as a wallbreaker. The best part is some of these mons that Hoopa has good matchups into, are also big threats to Balance teams, so Hoopa can function as a stalwart and the anti-stalwart. It has to be wary of U-Turn and the increase of Ting-Lu usage, but it’s in a better spot rn than it was months ago.

:sv/ribombee: B > B+
With Webs’ increased popularity in OLT for its matchup vs HO styles, I think a rise is warranted.

:sv/skeledirge: B > C+
As much as I think Skeledirge’s design kicks ass, there’s less justification to run Dirge over other Ghosts, bulky Fire types, and Unaware walls. Skeledirge is inconsistent against the mons that it is meant to check. Zama can Tera Fire and Crunch it to death as Dirge is forced to burn Slack Off PP. Most physical sweepers in the tier carry SE coverage. Outside of stuff like pre-Tera Moth and Crown, most special threats 1v1 Dirge easily including the premier threats like Darkrai, Kyu, Ghold, and Bolt. It’s a fake Fairy resist as every meta relevant Fairy can either kill it or cripple with Knock/Status. Everything else can Knock or cripple Dirge. All around bad matchups against most of the metagame. Dirge fights for a team-slot with Moltres and other Ghosts that cover several more matchups than Dirge does. Unaware walls are just inconsistent rn but Dozo and Clod can consistently check the threats they’re designated to. Dirge has to Tera in order to function against them. There’s a reason stuff like Sandy Shocks, Comfey, and Boulder have fallen off. Tera is a privilege for the meta. The most notable Tera users in Gambit, Zama, Garg, Moth, and Bolt are still incredible at their job without needing to burn Tera. With Dirge, Tera is a necessity, and as preserving and forcing Teras becomes a major part of SV OU gameplay, Tera hogs like Comfey and Dirge become harder to justify.

:sv/hydrapple: B- > B
Hydrapple has been putting serious work throughout OLT for farming the shit out of Balance. It has great mus into fat mons like Mola, Ting-Lu, Garg, and Gliscor due to being able to consistently switch into them with Regenerator + its defensive typing. Not to mention Hydrapple being a check to non-Play Rough Waterpon and pairing well with other Regen mons. With hazard control from Tusk, Cinder, and Corv, Hydrapple has been seen with Life Orb to OHKO Glowking at +2 with Earth Power or Draco/All-out Fickle Beam, thus beating the main Balance roadblock in Glowking while preserving defensive Teras like Fairy or Steel. There’s some good players have used it with incredible results. mimilimi , Dragonite4242 , Blimax , etc.

:sv/toxapex: B- > B
Pex has seen a resurgence as a defensive check to several offensive threats and a team player on Stall/Balance. Its insane bulk lets it trade with mons like Roaring Moon, Dnite, G-Fire and Tusk to get off a Toxic. Pivots into the biggest Balance/Stall threat, Waterpon and always survives a +2 Pwhip at full. AV is incredible into a specially offensive mon-infested meta, with great matchups into Darkrai, Primarina, Wake, Moth, and CM Val. I’m a huge fan of Tera Ground Blast Pex.

Toxapex @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Poison Jab
- Infestation
- Tera Blast

This baits in and traps Glowking, Raging Bolt, and Crown, eliminating them from the game which can enable threats like Kyurem to go crazy. I think Pex is underrated despite its issues with passivity into Steels and Glowking. Having a net positive matchup into offense while checking Waterpon and Primarina in one-slot is a dealbreaker.

:sv/excadrill: :sv/tyranitar: B > C+/B- > C+
I’m aware Empo had some success with Sand and qualified in Cycle 3, but he qualified because he’s cracked. I just don’t see Sand being good and the main reason is Drill is kinda mid rn. Drill’s fabled matchup against Offense is overrated when these same teams often have a Zama or Lando in the back to deal with it. Drill is also terrible vs Balance. Its never breaking through Lando, Gliscor, Molt, Mola, Corv, Skarm, or Dozo without Tera Blast or flinch haxxing, and Drill’s frailty is easy to take advantage of with the vast amount of priority in the tier. Sand also doesn’t like the annoying Samurott being more common these days. The overlapping weaknesses the two have make building Sand incredibly restrictive. Drill’s only good traits are spinning and checking Raging Bolt/Speed boosters. Unless you can give a convincing argument, I’m inclined to say Sand is just mediocre rn.

:sv/latias: C+ > C/D
Little to no Latias was seen in OLT or WCOP. Double Dance sweepers just suck in a metagame dominated with such raw dmg output, phazers, T-Wave, and Encore. Stored Power is the most overrated move in this generation. The only reason Espathra and Magearna got banned was because the ostrich can get Stored Power to dangerous BP quickly due to Calm Mind + Stored Power, and Magearna would be broken even without Stored Power off of the billion different sets it has. Your opponent has to not have one of Encore, T-Wave, Roar/Whirlwind, Taunt, Tera Dark Unaware mon/Blissey, Trick, or a strong offensive threat in order for Latias to even have a shot at sweeping. All this without mentioning how much of a Tera hog it is. There’s cheese, and there’s cheese left in the fridge for a decade but people claim the cheese is still fresh.

:sv/lokix: C+ > B-/B
Lokix has seen higher usage. You might’ve seen Storm Zone ’s Lokix/Mola/Crown team in high ladder replays or some variation of it. Lokix has been recognized as an anti-offense demon for its ability to bypass defensive Teras and rkill several offensive threats with Tinted Lens First Impression. Lokix’s typing grants it switch-in opportunities on mons like Ting-Lu, Darkrai, and Deoxys. It remains relevant vs slower teams with strong Knock Off and Tera Bug Leech Life. Compared to most of the other C+ mons and even some B tier mons, Lokix has more favorable matchups against the meta than them. I don’t think it’s staple status. Lokix still has its vulnerability to SR requiring hazard support at all times and choice locked First Impression can be taken advantage of. Still, Lokix went from fringe to being a strong niche mon in just a matter of a month.

:sv/azumarill: C > D
Severely outclassed by Waterpon and Samurott as a physically offensive water. Its defensive typing and natural bulk is undercut by the fact Azumarill often needs to run max speed Adamant/Jolly in order to speed creep Corv, Sinistcha, and tieing with opposing base 50s like Kingambit. Toxapex gaining some usage on Stall again doesn’t help. Outside of Aqua Jet, there’s not much reason to run Azumarill over Waterpon or Samu.

:sv/comfey: C > UR
Just drop it. We haven’t seen this shit since midway of SPL.

:sv/goodra_hisui: C > C+
Hoodra made a few appearances in OLT. Beta Archaludon role compresses as a Knocker, Steel type, special wall, and an Ogerpon switch in. It has nice synergy with other defensive staples such as Mola and Ting-Lu. It can struggle with being worn down though.

:sv/mamoswine: C > C+/B-
Mamoswine is an absolute beast of a mon I’ll talk about more on a future post, but in short, Assault Vest and Choice Band variants of Mamoswine have good-to-great matchups against the metagame. To start, with Thick Fat, Mamo is an Ice resist not weak to Earth Power or Freeze Dry, or one that takes rocks which is invaluable in the Kyurem-infested OLT ladder. Assault Vest Mamo can 1v1 other mons such as Iron Moth, Slowking-Galar, Gliscor, Raging Bolt, and Zapdos. Mamo’s Ice Shard is even stronger than Weavile’s with the freedom to run Band and Adamant. Banded Shard has a 50% chance to straight up OHKO Roaring Moon after rocks. Band Mamo has crazy calcs like 2-shotting Mola and OHKOing standard Prima with EQ, 2HKOing Skarm after rocks, OHKOing Fairy Bolt with Tera-boosted Crash or EQ after rocks, and 3HKOing Dozo with EQ. Packing priority, an Ice resistance, and the terrifying typing of Ice/Ground, Mamoswine is a sleeper pick that responds well to metagame trends and has strong matchups.

:sv/necrozma: C > D
When’s the last time you’ve seen this used? The idea of this mon is clicking rocks and then Meteor Beam. Sound familiar? thats because Glimmora can do the exact same thing but better. Watching replays of OLT and playing on the ladder myself, I’ve not seen a single Necrozma, but I’ve seen glimpses of other fringe HO mons like Goltres, Thundurus-I, H-Arc, and Iron Jugulis, but no Necrozma. Hazard leads are abundant in the current meta already, there’s almost no reason to slot in Necrozma.

:sv/chesnaught: D > UR
This was just ranked and I don’t get why. It’s a bad check to Waterpon since it gets smacked by Encore or Play Rough. Needs Iron Defense to check Gambit meaning it loses out on Spikes, Knock, or Recovery. It can pivot into Darkrai’s Sludge Bomb, but will just get Ice Beam’d. It’s immune to Ghold’s Shadow Ball, until it uses Chesnaught as setup fodder. Just use Sinistcha. It doesn’t not have Spikes or Knock, but those aren’t hard to splash onto teams, and if you’re using Spikes, you might be using Sinistcha anyways. I’m not convinced.

:hippowdon: D > UR
:hydreigon: D > UR
:kingdra: D > UR
:kommo-o: D > UR
:milotic: D > UR
:suicune: D > UR

Gonna go rapid fire on these mons rq. Hippo is a relic of the Arch meta and has no reason to be used over the 8 fucking Ground types in the tier. Hydreigon is heavily outclassed by Darkrai, Raging Bolt, and Kyurem. Darkrai is just faster and stronger, no matter how good Levitate is. Be for real with Kingdra, what does Kingdra actually do for Rain? Comparing it to the other alternative Rain abusers, Overqwil has valuable resistances and good matchups into anti-Rain threats, Basculegion nukes shit with CB Adaptability Wave Crash and priority Jet. Kingdra loses to AV Prim who’s already good into Rain, and Glowking can sit on it. Kommo-o is heavily outclassed by other Dragons and shutdown hard by stuff like Encore Val. Milotic hasn’t been seen since DLC1 and there’s much better bulky Waters, even on the more niche side. Speaking of which, Suicune is hardly sweeping as long as Encore, Waterpon, Kyurem, and Raging Bolt exist. Plus, there’s too much competition from Primarina, Hatterene, Sinistcha, and the aforementioned Raging Bolt.

:sv/araquanid: UR > D
Araquanid at least deserves a participation medal. It’s a Webs setter that doesn’t fold to Iron Moth and can take something with it through Water Bubble boosted Liquidation or Mirror Coat. It’s seen a couple appearances in OLT as a niche alternative to Ribombee.
 
658Greninja said:
:sv/latias: C+ > C/D
Little to no Latias was seen in OLT or WCOP. Double Dance sweepers just suck in a metagame dominated with such raw dmg output, phazers, T-Wave, and Encore. Stored Power is the most overrated move in this generation. The only reason Espathra and Magearna got banned was because the ostrich can get Stored Power to dangerous BP quickly due to Calm Mind + Stored Power, and Magearna would be broken even without Stored Power off of the billion different sets it has. Your opponent has to not have one of Encore, T-Wave, Roar/Whirlwind, Taunt, Tera Dark Unaware mon/Blissey, Trick, or a strong offensive threat in order for Latias to even have a shot at sweeping. All this without mentioning how much of a Tera hog it is. There’s cheese, and there’s cheese left in the fridge for a decade but people claim the cheese is still fresh.
Click to expand...
honestly i agree with most of these nominations(especially Greninja) barring stuff like Heatran and probably sand among others, but im just wondering that how are we gonna nominate a Latias drop and not include Cress despite it literally being in the same rank and being overall more worse as a SP sweeper since its more prone to encore cause it cant run agility ontop of it being way slower and weaker than Latias?
 
Last edited:
71F4F156-94DF-4832-BB54-8D65E2C24BF0.gifC+/C > D

I really like how more Pokémon are getting more nominations to be ranked for play, and one Pokémon that really caught my eye was Kingdra. The reason I am asking to raise its ranking is because Kingdra has many different ways to be competitively viable due to having a base stat of 95 in all of its stats, making it very versatile and able to take on quite a few things thanks to its aforementioned stats and its great typing in Dragon/Water. Its Swift Swim ability is also very good as it maximizes its already decent speed, making it a more threatening foe to opposing Pokémon. Although most of the time it is confined to using Choice Specs, it has to rely on its teammates to handle its Dragon and Fairy weaknesses in order to fully take advantage of what it has been given. Overall, I think Kingdra is a decent Pokémon that deserves a decent ranking.
Click to expand...
 
gonna rapid fire a bunch of pokemon i think should rise or drop, since it has been a while since i last posted in this thread

rises:

:landorus_therian: A+ -> S-

echoing what 658Greninja said in his post, landorus-T has been a staple on offensive teams recently and only continues to improve over time. fantastic rocks setter and a good blanket check to pokemon like gouging fire (more on that later) and zamazenta. it can also run an offensive or choice scarf set that can turn the tables on many of its traditional counters while still reliably getting up rocks. it still remains an amazing glue mon despite the nerfs to its movepool, which is honestly very impressive

:gouging_fire: A -> A+

252+ Atk Protosynthesis Tera Dragon Gouging Fire Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 224-264 (44.4 - 52.3%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Protosynthesis Tera Dragon Gouging Fire Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 224-264 (44.4 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

calcs presented without comment

:iron_crown: A- -> A

iron crown is simply fantastic as an offensive pivot on bulky offense teams, especially since it's one of the few pokemon that can actually switch into and threaten subtect kyurem. being able to exert constant offensive pressure w/ future sight/psychic noise and volt switch is also incredibly valuable. not much to say about this mon, it was already amazing before but the fact that it's by far the best offensive check to sub kyurem leads me to believe that iron crown is deserving of a rise

:corviknight: B+ -> A-/A

turns out corviknight is still a surprisingly decent defogger once you pair it with additional hazard removal. it's currently a near staple on bootsless balance structures and for good reason, especially since it's one of the few pokemon who completely counters the likes of gliscor. overall a very solid pokemon and imo corviknight is currently the best it's been since the very beginning of SV OU

:zapdos: B+ -> A-/A

surprised zapdos hasn't risen higher than B+ on the last slate. its poor MUs into raging bolt and kyurem are definitely key factors in holding it back but it still does the same things it did during HOME and DLC1 and its defensive profile is still quite valuable rn. it lacks some of the options that makes moltres so good rn but it's definitely still a respectable pokemon, especially since it matches so much better into great tusk and boots zamazenta than moltres does since it doesn't fear knock off or stone edge as much as moltres does. despite not being as dominant as it once was, zapdos is still pretty solid as a blanket check to most of the tier's physical attackers and it definitely deserves a spot among the A ranks

:okidogi: B- -> B/B+

excellent check to darkrai, kingambit and zamazenta on offensive teams, and is one of the only pokemon capable of setting up alongside the latter thanks to the unique ability. okidogi being able to constantly force progress through knock off is also huge even if it can't break through a team by itself. this pokemon is heavily underrated rn and i'm surprised not many people are mentioning it

:hydrapple: B- -> B

i'll keep this one brief since i don't have too much to say about hydrapple, its NP sets are incredibly threatening against balance teams while still putting in work defensively via its typing + regenerator, allowing it to check pokemon like rillaboom and ogerpon. it's very unique as a wallbreaker between its valuable defensive qualities and its fantastic offensive profile. hydrapple has seen a fair bit of use during OLT and it's shown itself to be a very strong and consistent wallbreaker

:lokix:C+ -> B

lokix is quite possibly the quintessential tinted lens pokemon, between its typing and stat spread. u-turn is incredibly powerful and is great for generating momentum, its first impression keeps many offensive pokemon in check, knock off can force consistent progress against bulky teams, and in the last slot it can either run leech life to offset its hazard weakness or sucker punch to pick off faster pokemon even after using first impression. it fits nicely into the current metagame imo and is a very cool pokemon, glad it's seeing more use

:bellibolt: D -> C/C+

bellibolt is a unique defensive pokemon between its ability and movepool. electromorphisis (or whatever it's called) synergizes very well with its good natural bulk, and its access to some fun utility options like soak and toxic sets it apart from something like zapdos since it can actually threaten to cripple raging bolt w/ toxic. again, i don't really have much to say about bellibolt other than that i was wrong about it and didn't expect it to be quite this good

:chansey: UR -> C

while its inability to run HDB seriously hinders it, having far superior bulk compared to blissey gives chansey a niche on fat teams that carry hazard control. its reliance on eviolite does mean it requires far more support than its evolution in order to function, the advantages it has over blissey definitely make it worth using


drops:

:weavile: A -> A-
:meowscarada: B+ -> B

metagame trends have not been kind to either of these two pokemon. meowscarada's speed tier is, ironically, not fast enough to really justify using as speed control most of the time and is generally outclassed by ogerpon as a pivot. while ogerpon's base speed is slightly worse, it has a much better movepool, hits a lot harder and gets far more use out of terastallization. weavile, on the other hand, struggles a lot against common physical walls like alomomola and garganacl and isn't as offensively threatening as it was during the early DLC2 metagame

:skarmory: B+ -> B

skarmory is more often than not a complete momentum sink and is (still) just generally worse and harder to fit on teams than corviknight. the one advantage it has in access to entry hazards is hardly an advantage when it's significantly easier to exploit than any other viable hazard setter

:serperior: B -> B-/C+

serperior turned out to be a surprisingly mediocre pokemon in the end, but its reliance on terastallization to patch up its mono grass coverage is really starting to catch up to it. maybe in the future it'll be really dominant but rn it feels way too matchup-fishy to be as high as B tier

:blaziken: B- -> C+

blaziken is by no means a bad pokemon but it's just generally hard to fit when there are so many other offensive fire types that are simply better and easier to justify using. there's really not a lot to say about it, it's just heavily outclassed rn

:fezandipiti: C+ -> C

if fezandipiti was stronger offensively or at least had any valuable utility options like defog then it'd definitely be a solid albeit niche pick for bulky teams in need of a darkrai check. but its unique defensive profile doesn't really compensate for its lack of utility and pitiful damage output

really shitty writeup but just wanted to share my thoughts on what i think of the meta rn, lemme know your thoughts n what you agree/disagree with
 
Last edited:
658Greninja said:
[/SPOILER]

:scizor: B+ > B
:volcanion: B+ > B
Click to expand...

Great list. I’d like to hear your rationale for these two though.

With AV, Scizor has an incredible matchup into common threats like Kyurem, Darkrai, and Valiant. Most mons that can switch in get punished by Knock Off.

Volcanion is a cracked wallbreaker/trapper that can easily claim multiple kills against bulky teams. But unlike other breakers it also provides valuable utility with Water Absorb and has the surprising bulk to trade with some faster mons in a pinch.
 
RS25802580 said:
Great list. I’d like to hear your rationale for these two though.

With AV, Scizor has an incredible matchup into common threats like Kyurem, Darkrai, and Valiant. Most mons that can switch in get punished by Knock Off.

Volcanion is a cracked wallbreaker/trapper that can easily claim multiple kills against bulky teams. But unlike other breakers it also provides valuable utility with Water Absorb and has the surprising bulk to trade with some faster mons in a pinch.
Click to expand...

No problem ^ ^

IMG_6716.png

Scizor has always felt like one of those mons that is better on paper than practice. Scizor packs an amazing typing, priority, U-Turn, and Knock. Scizor has good matchups into Kyurem, Valiant, Rilla, and some variants of Dnite. Where it falls flat for me is it suffers from Item-slot syndrome. You run into matchups where you wish you had Boots, Lefties, CB, LO, AV, or Metal Coat. You want Boots for hazards, Lefties for longevity, AV for consistency into Specs Kyu, or LO/CB/Metal Coat for Bullet Punch to be better into HO. Its lack of reliable recovery and lackluster special bulk means it doesn’t check Kyurem as often as it, especially with Tera in the equation. Scizor also has competition with other Steels, including Crown and Gambit who occupy similar niches to Scizor (Pivoting and SD sweeping).

IMG_6717.png

Volcanion suffers from being too slow and being outpaced/threatened by a ton of mons like Raging Bolt, Kyurem, Lando, Gliscor, Tusk, Moon, and Gouging Fire. Needing Timid to outspeed most Gliscors sucks and it undercuts its fantastic bulk. Volcanion usage is also lower as teams find more reliable team structures that mess with Fat/Stall like Gking + Wogre or Gambit + R-Moon/G-Fire. It has a neat defensive profile vs Cinderace and Primarina while being good into Balance structures, but idk if that’s enough for B+.

Hope that helps explain what and why.
 
658Greninja said:
No problem ^ ^

View attachment 661941
Scizor has always felt like one of those mons that is better on paper than practice. Scizor packs an amazing typing, priority, U-Turn, and Knock. Scizor has good matchups into Kyurem, Valiant, Rilla, and some variants of Dnite. Where it falls flat for me is it suffers from Item-slot syndrome. You run into matchups where you wish you had Boots, Lefties, CB, LO, AV, or Metal Coat. You want Boots for hazards, Lefties for longevity, AV for consistency into Specs Kyu, or LO/CB/Metal Coat for Bullet Punch to be better into HO. Its lack of reliable recovery and lackluster special bulk means it doesn’t check Kyurem as often as it, especially with Tera in the equation. Scizor also has competition with other Steels, including Crown and Gambit who occupy similar niches to Scizor (Pivoting and SD sweeping).

View attachment 661943
Volcanion suffers from being too slow and being outpaced/threatened by a ton of mons like Raging Bolt, Kyurem, Lando, Gliscor, Tusk, Moon, and Gouging Fire. Needing Timid to outspeed most Gliscors sucks and it undercuts its fantastic bulk. Volcanion usage is also lower as teams find more reliable team structures that mess with Fat/Stall like Gking + Wogre or Gambit + R-Moon/G-Fire. It has a neat defensive profile vs Cinderace and Primarina while being good into Balance structures, but idk if that’s enough for B+.

Hope that helps explain what and why.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply!

Regarding Scizor, I’ve experienced some of the challenges you mention. It’s easily chipped without boots but really wants AV.

For Volcanion, do you know if Gliscors are running speed investment nowadays? Volc can outpace uninvested Gliscor while packing Modest.
 
658Greninja said:
The VR is in need of a cleanup. Considering we’re a week away from the playoffs, I think this is a good time to make noms. Hot takes incoming.


:sv/landorus-therian: A+ > S-
Hot take, but Lando is the best it’s ever been in SV OU. This mon has been the premier glue mon on offensive teams for months now. A majority of offenses used in OLT have a Lando. Stupidly good at getting rocks up and blanket checks half the meta on its own with Intimidate and top 5 defensive typing. As the meta progresses, Lando iconic traits only become better. We’ve already had showings of offensive Lando with Stone Edge and/or Tera Ice Blast to muscle through traditional checks, and Choice Scarf Lando as a surprise speed control option that can compress rocks and U-Turn, thus Lando is less one-note. It fits on multiple styles, always does something per game, has fantastic synergy with other offensive threats while bringing them in safely, it’s Lando. As a result of Lando being more versatile and a key component on the most used playstyle in SV OU, I’ll be nominating Lando to S-.

:sv/cinderace: A > A+
I believe Cinderace is hands down an A+ rank mon. Its offensive synergy with the best breakers in the tier is immaculate as its an overtuned U-Turn button that pivots in front of Mola, Garg, Lando, G-Fire, etc and into something dangerous like Kyurem. This pairing has seen high usage in OLT with players spamming teams like CTC ’s Sub-Tect Kyu Fat or bbeeaa ’s Scarf Moon Offense. Cinder has also seen higher usage due to Spike stacking builds making a ressurnence with Samu being spammed throughout OLT, thus Court Change sees more value. Outside of super sturdy resists like Mola, Garg, and Moltres who are all U-Turn bait for its teammates, most offensive Fire resists don’t like to eat a Pyro and a potential U-Turn right after. Either they’re physically frail or Wisp targets. I think all these traits warrant a rise.

:sv/iron_moth: A > A+
Its glaring weaknesses to rocks and physical fragility hasn’t stopped Moth from snowballing teams, but what has been responsible for Moth’s increased usage in OLT is its utility. Moth provides speed control, a Fairy resist, a Tspike absorber, and being a check to common mainstays like Ghold, Darkrai, and Zama. Offense has great hazard control options which makes splashing Moth onto HO/BO much easier. On top of this, Moth is an anti-cheese mon with good matchups into Webs and Sun. All this without mentioning how quickly Moth can get out of control with Fiery boosts and Teras. There are ofc checks like Ting-Lu, AV Prim, and Gking, but you often find it paired with other dangerous special threats like Darkrai, Bolt, and Prim which can chip down or even eliminate these threats. Plus Moth can tech options like Tera Grass/Fairy for Ting-Lu, or Tera Blast Ground/Tera Dark for Glowking. Only Stall is truly safe vs the Moth. What’s more important is that Tran is shit rn, making it easier to forgo Tera Ground in favor for different Teras and coverage options.

:sv/weavile: A > A-
I respect Weavile, but it’s too high on the VR. It really hates the increased usage of Tinkaton, it’s bad into Mola, and Prima can come in to throw off hits. Needing Low Kick for Gambit makes it harder for it to break traditional checks such as the aforementioned Mola. It doesn’t help that it has to compete with Darkrai as a fast offensive Dark type. Weavile is still good. Ice Shard is incredible with all the Dragons and Ice weak targets in the tier. It’s an excellent Knocker and can even switch into the popular Sub-Tect Kyurem set once or twice.

:sv/enamorus: A- > B+
I don’t think Enamorus is as good as Big Chiken claims. Scarf Enam is pretty mid outside of Healing Wish shenanigans. Terrible vs standard and AV Glowking builds and if you have an HO that gets 6-0d by Moonblast, then you just made a bad HO. Specs and CM have their merit, but competition is stiff with Val and Prima who also have similar niches. Trends like AV Mola and Crown also aren’t kind to Enamorus.

:sv/walking_wake: A- > B+
Wake isn’t an A- threat. It’s the premier Sun mon and the Boots set has its place on Spike Stack, but Wake is ranked a bit too high.

:sv/heatran: B+ > B
Tran should not be in the same tier as goats like Zapdos and Rockpon. It has never been easier to switch into Heatran. Between Moltres, Primarina, Samurott, Ogerpon, Tera Water Garg, Ting-Lu, and Mola, Tran has a harder time breaking holes. Being a Steel that instantly dies to Kyurem’s Earth Power is absolutely miserable. As a special wall, its incredibly hazard weak and banks on a 75% accurate move to hit them. Plus most of them have coverage to smack Tran. It does have some merit like switching into Wisp Pult and Tera Blast-less Moth, but it’s inconsistent and has to deal with several problems in the current meta.

:sv/latios: B+ > B
I think Latios has some good traits such as Levitate freeing up an item slot, Tera Steel hard walls most Kyurems, and Soul Dew Dracos/Psychic STAB hitting like a freight train, but imo it’s ranked too high. It has to compete with Pult, Kyurem, and Bolt as a specially offensive dragon. Kyurem itself is not only competition, but the increased usage of Crown and Tinkaton it brought means Latios has a harder time actually breaking. Latios can brute force Ghold, but AV Crown and Tinka are just too bulky. Also gives stuff like Ting-Lu Spiking opportunities.

:scizor: B+ > B
:volcanion: B+ > B
:hawlucha: B > B-
:ninetales-alola: B > B-
:pelipper: B > B-
:tornadus_therian: B > B-
:blaziken: B- > C+

Nothing against these mons, I just think they were ranked too high initially. Not gonna go into specifics unless prompted.

:sv/greninja: B > B+
Greninja is what happens when Iron Moth and Darkrai have a love child. A fast offensive Dark type with the ability to snowball after a single turn. +1 Gren outspeeds everything minus Boulder, and 123+ Scarfers. What sets it apart from Darkrai is that its Water STAB threatens OHKOs on the trending Cinderace and Moltres which Darkrai can’t do. Greninja is amazing at punishing sacks and cleaning up the popular team builds in OLT. Surf + Gunk also OHKOs AV Prim, as that is one of the few mons on offense that want to take its STABs. Greninja can also hax through shit with Dpulse similarly to Darkrai.

:sv/hoopa_unbound: B > B+
If you examine the trends of OLT and the overall meta, they’re very favorable to AV Hoopa. Switches into Sub-Tect Kyu, Crown, Darkrai, Moth, Deo-S, Ghold, Glowking, and Zapdos which is a big portion of the tier. Kyurem and Moth in particular are trending. All this while functioning as a breaker. In Cycle 3 of OLT, there’s an increased number of players loading up with Balance, and while Hoopa isn’t a world destroyer in the same vein as Ursaluna, Hoopa’s has several entry points as a wallbreaker. The best part is some of these mons that Hoopa has good matchups into, are also big threats to Balance teams, so Hoopa can function as a stalwart and the anti-stalwart. It has to be wary of U-Turn and the increase of Ting-Lu usage, but it’s in a better spot rn than it was months ago.

:sv/ribombee: B > B+
With Webs’ increased popularity in OLT for its matchup vs HO styles, I think a rise is warranted.

:sv/skeledirge: B > C+
As much as I think Skeledirge’s design kicks ass, there’s less justification to run Dirge over other Ghosts, bulky Fire types, and Unaware walls. Skeledirge is inconsistent against the mons that it is meant to check. Zama can Tera Fire and Crunch it to death as Dirge is forced to burn Slack Off PP. Most physical sweepers in the tier carry SE coverage. Outside of stuff like pre-Tera Moth and Crown, most special threats 1v1 Dirge easily including the premier threats like Darkrai, Kyu, Ghold, and Bolt. It’s a fake Fairy resist as every meta relevant Fairy can either kill it or cripple with Knock/Status. Everything else can Knock or cripple Dirge. All around bad matchups against most of the metagame. Dirge fights for a team-slot with Moltres and other Ghosts that cover several more matchups than Dirge does. Unaware walls are just inconsistent rn but Dozo and Clod can consistently check the threats they’re designated to. Dirge has to Tera in order to function against them. There’s a reason stuff like Sandy Shocks, Comfey, and Boulder have fallen off. Tera is a privilege for the meta. The most notable Tera users in Gambit, Zama, Garg, Moth, and Bolt are still incredible at their job without needing to burn Tera. With Dirge, Tera is a necessity, and as preserving and forcing Teras becomes a major part of SV OU gameplay, Tera hogs like Comfey and Dirge become harder to justify.

:sv/hydrapple: B- > B
Hydrapple has been putting serious work throughout OLT for farming the shit out of Balance. It has great mus into fat mons like Mola, Ting-Lu, Garg, and Gliscor due to being able to consistently switch into them with Regenerator + its defensive typing. Not to mention Hydrapple being a check to non-Play Rough Waterpon and pairing well with other Regen mons. With hazard control from Tusk, Cinder, and Corv, Hydrapple has been seen with Life Orb to OHKO Glowking at +2 with Earth Power or Draco/All-out Fickle Beam, thus beating the main Balance roadblock in Glowking while preserving defensive Teras like Fairy or Steel. There’s some good players have used it with incredible results. mimilimi , Dragonite4242 , Blimax , etc.

:sv/toxapex: B- > B
Pex has seen a resurgence as a defensive check to several offensive threats and a team player on Stall/Balance. Its insane bulk lets it trade with mons like Roaring Moon, Dnite, G-Fire and Tusk to get off a Toxic. Pivots into the biggest Balance/Stall threat, Waterpon and always survives a +2 Pwhip at full. AV is incredible into a specially offensive mon-infested meta, with great matchups into Darkrai, Primarina, Wake, Moth, and CM Val. I’m a huge fan of Tera Ground Blast Pex.

Toxapex @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Poison Jab
- Infestation
- Tera Blast

This baits in and traps Glowking, Raging Bolt, and Crown, eliminating them from the game which can enable threats like Kyurem to go crazy. I think Pex is underrated despite its issues with passivity into Steels and Glowking. Having a net positive matchup into offense while checking Waterpon and Primarina in one-slot is a dealbreaker.

:sv/excadrill: :sv/tyranitar: B > C+/B- > C+
I’m aware Empo had some success with Sand and qualified in Cycle 3, but he qualified because he’s cracked. I just don’t see Sand being good and the main reason is Drill is kinda mid rn. Drill’s fabled matchup against Offense is overrated when these same teams often have a Zama or Lando in the back to deal with it. Drill is also terrible vs Balance. Its never breaking through Lando, Gliscor, Molt, Mola, Corv, Skarm, or Dozo without Tera Blast or flinch haxxing, and Drill’s frailty is easy to take advantage of with the vast amount of priority in the tier. Sand also doesn’t like the annoying Samurott being more common these days. The overlapping weaknesses the two have make building Sand incredibly restrictive. Drill’s only good traits are spinning and checking Raging Bolt/Speed boosters. Unless you can give a convincing argument, I’m inclined to say Sand is just mediocre rn.

:sv/latias: C+ > C/D
Little to no Latias was seen in OLT or WCOP. Double Dance sweepers just suck in a metagame dominated with such raw dmg output, phazers, T-Wave, and Encore. Stored Power is the most overrated move in this generation. The only reason Espathra and Magearna got banned was because the ostrich can get Stored Power to dangerous BP quickly due to Calm Mind + Stored Power, and Magearna would be broken even without Stored Power off of the billion different sets it has. Your opponent has to not have one of Encore, T-Wave, Roar/Whirlwind, Taunt, Tera Dark Unaware mon/Blissey, Trick, or a strong offensive threat in order for Latias to even have a shot at sweeping. All this without mentioning how much of a Tera hog it is. There’s cheese, and there’s cheese left in the fridge for a decade but people claim the cheese is still fresh.

:sv/lokix: C+ > B-/B
Lokix has seen higher usage. You might’ve seen Storm Zone ’s Lokix/Mola/Crown team in high ladder replays or some variation of it. Lokix has been recognized as an anti-offense demon for its ability to bypass defensive Teras and rkill several offensive threats with Tinted Lens First Impression. Lokix’s typing grants it switch-in opportunities on mons like Ting-Lu, Darkrai, and Deoxys. It remains relevant vs slower teams with strong Knock Off and Tera Bug Leech Life. Compared to most of the other C+ mons and even some B tier mons, Lokix has more favorable matchups against the meta than them. I don’t think it’s staple status. Lokix still has its vulnerability to SR requiring hazard support at all times and choice locked First Impression can be taken advantage of. Still, Lokix went from fringe to being a strong niche mon in just a matter of a month.

:sv/azumarill: C > D
Severely outclassed by Waterpon and Samurott as a physically offensive water. Its defensive typing and natural bulk is undercut by the fact Azumarill often needs to run max speed Adamant/Jolly in order to speed creep Corv, Sinistcha, and tieing with opposing base 50s like Kingambit. Toxapex gaining some usage on Stall again doesn’t help. Outside of Aqua Jet, there’s not much reason to run Azumarill over Waterpon or Samu.

:sv/comfey: C > UR
Just drop it. We haven’t seen this shit since midway of SPL.

:sv/goodra_hisui: C > C+
Hoodra made a few appearances in OLT. Beta Archaludon role compresses as a Knocker, Steel type, special wall, and an Ogerpon switch in. It has nice synergy with other defensive staples such as Mola and Ting-Lu. It can struggle with being worn down though.

:sv/mamoswine: C > C+/B-
Mamoswine is an absolute beast of a mon I’ll talk about more on a future post, but in short, Assault Vest and Choice Band variants of Mamoswine have good-to-great matchups against the metagame. To start, with Thick Fat, Mamo is an Ice resist not weak to Earth Power or Freeze Dry, or one that takes rocks which is invaluable in the Kyurem-infested OLT ladder. Assault Vest Mamo can 1v1 other mons such as Iron Moth, Slowking-Galar, Gliscor, Raging Bolt, and Zapdos. Mamo’s Ice Shard is even stronger than Weavile’s with the freedom to run Band and Adamant. Banded Shard has a 50% chance to straight up OHKO Roaring Moon after rocks. Band Mamo has crazy calcs like 2-shotting Mola and OHKOing standard Prima with EQ, 2HKOing Skarm after rocks, OHKOing Fairy Bolt with Tera-boosted Crash or EQ after rocks, and 3HKOing Dozo with EQ. Packing priority, an Ice resistance, and the terrifying typing of Ice/Ground, Mamoswine is a sleeper pick that responds well to metagame trends and has strong matchups.

:sv/necrozma: C > D
When’s the last time you’ve seen this used? The idea of this mon is clicking rocks and then Meteor Beam. Sound familiar? thats because Glimmora can do the exact same thing but better. Watching replays of OLT and playing on the ladder myself, I’ve not seen a single Necrozma, but I’ve seen glimpses of other fringe HO mons like Goltres, Thundurus-I, H-Arc, and Iron Jugulis, but no Necrozma. Hazard leads are abundant in the current meta already, there’s almost no reason to slot in Necrozma.

:sv/chesnaught: D > UR
This was just ranked and I don’t get why. It’s a bad check to Waterpon since it gets smacked by Encore or Play Rough. Needs Iron Defense to check Gambit meaning it loses out on Spikes, Knock, or Recovery. It can pivot into Darkrai’s Sludge Bomb, but will just get Ice Beam’d. It’s immune to Ghold’s Shadow Ball, until it uses Chesnaught as setup fodder. Just use Sinistcha. It doesn’t not have Spikes or Knock, but those aren’t hard to splash onto teams, and if you’re using Spikes, you might be using Sinistcha anyways. I’m not convinced.

:hippowdon: D > UR
:hydreigon: D > UR
:kingdra: D > UR
:kommo-o: D > UR
:milotic: D > UR
:suicune: D > UR

Gonna go rapid fire on these mons rq. Hippo is a relic of the Arch meta and has no reason to be used over the 8 fucking Ground types in the tier. Hydreigon is heavily outclassed by Darkrai, Raging Bolt, and Kyurem. Darkrai is just faster and stronger, no matter how good Levitate is. Be for real with Kingdra, what does Kingdra actually do for Rain? Comparing it to the other alternative Rain abusers, Overqwil has valuable resistances and good matchups into anti-Rain threats, Basculegion nukes shit with CB Adaptability Wave Crash and priority Jet. Kingdra loses to AV Prim who’s already good into Rain, and Glowking can sit on it. Kommo-o is heavily outclassed by other Dragons and shutdown hard by stuff like Encore Val. Milotic hasn’t been seen since DLC1 and there’s much better bulky Waters, even on the more niche side. Speaking of which, Suicune is hardly sweeping as long as Encore, Waterpon, Kyurem, and Raging Bolt exist. Plus, there’s too much competition from Primarina, Hatterene, Sinistcha, and the aforementioned Raging Bolt.

:sv/araquanid: UR > D
Araquanid at least deserves a participation medal. It’s a Webs setter that doesn’t fold to Iron Moth and can take something with it through Water Bubble boosted Liquidation or Mirror Coat. It’s seen a couple appearances in OLT as a niche alternative to Ribombee.
Click to expand...

Now that I've posted my RMT, I'm going to use it as evidence to rebut a few points here. Felt the need to for a while but wanted to drop it first.

Cinderace A -->A+

I'm not that impressed with cinderace's performance in a meta filled with powerful dragons, tons of lando-ts/tusks/gliscors which can swap in on your Court Change and get rocks right back up, and a good uptick of Moltres which can punish your Libero U-turns with Flame Body, softly forcing you to run Blaze (much weaker coverage), not spam U-turn (losing easy momentum), or force you to double switch a lot (can be inconsistent and requires skill). Court Change is a one-time removal unless paired with Rapid Spin, and while it's fairly reliable once, it's always going to need to be paired with lots of offense, because anything less than that is susceptible to getting overwhelmed by any patient hstack. This constricts the kinds of teams that cinderace can fit on, and you're already forced to work around all the meta forces listed above, so I really don't think now is a great time to raise it up to A+

Walking Wake A- --> B+

Wake was doin great in high ladder for me, and I think its immediate power+speed with the drawback of needing sun is perfectly reflected at A-. More details in the RMT. It should not be dropping anytime soon.

Heatran B+ --> B

This is also a drop that does not reflect Heatran's performance for me in the high 1900s/low 2000s during OLT ladder. Every pokemon you listed except moltres cannot switch into my Heatran set under the sun, and Moltres needs to be specifically U-turn+Scorching Sands or it's just not doing anything back to Heatran. You should always be holding Balloon so you're not as vulnerable to Kyurem as you say in practice, and its biggest flaw is the inconsistency of Magma Storm, not any of the matchups you stated. Again, more details and calcs in the RMT. This mon has been excellent against the increase in Iron Moth usage.

I will say, I have seen Heatran be good in maybe 1 team besides my own, so I can understand the bad rep it gets, but 1 good team featuring Heatran should be all the evidence necessary to keep its spot in the VR imo.

Scizor, Latios, Hydreigon

I do not think any of these should be dropping in a meta where Kyurem is a rising major threat. Scizor has its own sets to get around its rough patches, like Tera Flying Dual Wingbeat, but Latios and Hydreigon are more notable for being viable Tera Steel+Levitate users to help wall out the nasty SubTect Kyurems on ladder. All 3 should stay where they are, and I've seen usage on ladder to reflect these trends.

Mamoswine C --> C+/B-

I do not think Mamoswine has done much to deserve this raise unfortunately. Choice Band sounds impressive, but the reality is that it's never actually breaking any competently played fat team with Alomomola. Alo and Gliscor both have Protect to scout your choice lock and swap into each other on the correct stab appropriately, such that you can only make progress by getting CB mamo in vs somebody like Blissey or Clodsire that your partner forced in (and they also have to scare Alo/Gliscor out). This combination is super restricting and it's not really inspiring for your CB Mamo, alleged wallbreaker, to need this much support and positioning to do net 17% damage to Alo after correctly predicting it to come in and click EQ only for it to regen off and swap to Gliscor.

AV Mamo's matchup against offense sounds a little more intriguing, but it feels like the kind of matchup spread that could be performed nearly as well by somebody like AV Tusk, who can also provide an extremely valuable Rapid Spin and still give similar Ice/Ground coverage. Sure, you lose out on Ice Shard and an Ice resist, but I think most players will agree that hazard removal is the more valuable utility in most cases, and it's easier to make up for Ice Shard/Ice resist with a more viable teammate.

Also for Hippo D --> UR Normally I'd agree but I saw Storm Zone using some sick tera ghost hippo + exca team once and that shit was cool so maybe its viable idk ask him. I more or less agree with the rest.
 
Last edited:
I think Latios is ranked to low and should be moved up to A- tier for the following reasons



  1. Latios has a strong, fast attack
Latios has a base special attack stat of 130. In comparison Darkrai has a special attack stat of 135, meaning that Latios does almost as much damage as Darkrai. In fact, the only 2 mons that aren't banned from OU that aren't slower or weaker are Darkrai (a mon many people think should be banned) and Iron Moth. Obviously these 2 mons have many advantages that Latios lacks. Darkrai has faster speed and Iron Moth has an ability that can boost its speed along with Fiery Dance but that brings me to something that Latios has over both of them.

2. Amazing moves

Now yes, Iron Moth has Fiery Dance, one of the best attacking moves in the game for its ability to boost special attack, but Latios has an amazing move for both of its stabs. Luster Purge has an amazing 50% chance to drop special defense while being 95 BP. This allows it to punch well above its attacking power for threatening 2HKOs. For example, physically defensive Clefable would be a safe switch in to non specs Latios but if Luster Purge drops Clefable's Spd then its forced to either switch out or die. Draco Meteor is also a great move because of the high amount of damage it does. Yes, it does drop Special attack to half after but its great for finishing off a weakened target and even the threat of it forces your opponent to play more carefully. Aside from these 2 moves Latios also has many good coverage moves. Aura Sphere for Kingambit (if you can get it on the switch or have substute), Ice Beam for Gliscor and Lando T, Shadow Ball for Gholdengo, Tbot for the Corv and Skarm and many more options. You can pick and choose what your Latios can beat depending on your team's need. Now, at this point you might be thinking "wow, thats good, but doesn't Dragapult do its job better? Dragapult has a better typing for both offensive and defensive and is much faster allowing it to function as speed control and making it harder to revenge kill" Well, Latios has some things that Dragapult doesn't such as.

3. Bulk

When you think of Latios you probably don't think of bulk, thats what Latias is for. The thing is that for an offensive mon Latios has very good special bulk. For example, without any investment Latios has 31% more special bulk than physically defensive Skarmory, only 12% less special bulk than specially defensive Skarmory and only 6.5% less special bulk than physically defensive Corviknight. Keep in mind this is without any defensive investment. Combine this with a lot of resists and Latios is able to come in on special moves easily and fire back with a powerful stab attack. In addition to this bulk it also has an amazing defensive ability, levitate. Levitate's obvious advantage is its ground immunity, which is obviously huge. Another huge advantage though is spikes and toxic spikes immunity. This means that Latios doesn't need to run Heavy Duty Boots to avoid spikes damage making it much more viable on teams without good hazard control. Not needing HDB frees up its item slot for something like a choice item or leftovers. Its good special bulk + levitate gives it a lot of options. For example Terra Steel Latios is a Steel type with a ground immunity and only weak to Fire and Fighting (both types normal Latios resists). Its also able to completely wall Kyurem assuming it has leftovers and doesn't even need to fear rocks since it only takes 6%. Terra electric Latios has no weaknesses (I haven't found a use for this but I'm sure one exists). Even without terraing it can take advantage of its solid bulk to tank hits. For example it takes at most 71.7% from a non offensive Clefable Moon Blast meaning you can't even send physically defensive Clefable out against a healthy Latios to revenge kill it! It also has recover and calm mind if it wants to play more defensively (though Latias is probably better for that, especially considering it has Draining Kiss.




When compared to a lot of A- mons I think it does really well. For example Walking Wake is only good on sun and Iron Treads is mostly a lead on offensive teams that gets rocks up then dies. Latios by contrast can fit on any team style other than HO stall and semi stall very well thanks to its solid damage output and bulk. Its set variety is also much better than those other 2 mons allowing it to beat most of its defensive answers with the right set.
 
been a minute since ive done one of these but id like to nominate some Pokemon that i felt like have been deserving of a rise

:Greninja: B -> B+
Greninja still continues to reign as a potent threat even in Gen9 OU despite the nerfs it has recieved in addition to the enomorus power creep this generation has brought and it Ladder + OLT success says it all. Water/Dark is always a good STAB combination and it can run away with games quickly if it picks up a KO, combined with its great speed for the tier as well as its amazing movepool that gives it good coverage in both Ice Beam or Sludge Wave in addition having great priority with Water Shuriken and you pretty much have a great offensive threat that is capable of snowballing through teams if given a chance to pick up a KO, and that is before you add on the fact that it can tera too to jack up the power of its stabs or to change its typing defensively in the face of its checks. SD Battle Bond sets have also been seeing some decent success too on top of classic special bb sets, thanks to those sets having access to upper hand for stuff like Kingambit or Raging Bolt as well as having access to Gunk Shot for a more powerful Poison-type coverage move. Ofc it struggles with stuff like Rillaboom, Raging Bolt, Kyurem, both Primarina and Ogerpon-W outside of Sludge Wave/Gunk Shot, and Zama; but this can be all fixed with support from its teammates and the opportunity cost to bringing it is worth it if its issues are covered since its still a massive threat despite the nerf its received.

:Zapdos: B+ -> A-
Zapdos has been seeing a bit of a resurgence as of lately thanks to the fact that it has had strong showings on ladder play(almost to the point where it would've rose to OU this month if monthly tiering shifts were still in effect) as well as OLT and theres no surprise to see why. The bans of Archaludon and Volcarona most certainly helped Zapdos out as they were two excellent checks to it and the dominance of Zamazenta cannot be overstated, thus despite Kyurem and Raging Bolt as well as Gliscor still existing in the tier it feels like Zapdos has been progressively getting much better as time has been going on. Its typing is excellent as always as it matches up well into most physical attackers in the metagame(IV, Scizor, Roaring Moon, Kingambit, Dragonite, etc) as well as matching up excellently into Great Tusk and defensive variants of Landorus-T, thus making it a much better pivot than bolt against these two certain grounds due to it having a ground immunity which something that bolt cant claim. Static is also something that Zapdos has that Raging Bolt doesnt and its what makes Zapdos such an excellent progress maker in the metagame, since it can easily fish for para's thanks to its typing in conjunction with its bulk and proceed to slow down faster threats for its teammates to take advantage of. Having access to U-Turn is also another good quality as an electric-type pivot considering that it allows Zapdos to pivot out of ground types like Gliscor and Landorus-Therian so it doesnt lose momentum. Offensive sets also have huge potiential still but i think those will prolly get more expirementation later on in the metagame, for now tho i think Zapdos deserves a rise thanks to whats listed above and it would be very cool to see where Zapdos winds up n the future if it keeps excelling.
 
Holy power creep, when did Great Tusk go from S to A+? I just checked Showdex, and it says that currently Great Tusk is #1 on the OU Ladder, beating out Kingambit by 0.73% (Great Tusk, as of posting this has a usage stat of 32.33%, and Kingambit only has 31.60%) Not that I'm mad at this because by all means, I hate Kingambit with a passion, but it's kind of surprising to see the king knocked off his stupid a word throne!
 
#1 Talonflame Enjoyer said:
Holy power creep, when did Great Tusk go from S to A+? I just checked Showdex, and it says that currently Great Tusk is #1 on the OU Ladder, beating out Kingambit by 0.73% (Great Tusk, as of posting this has a usage stat of 32.33%, and Kingambit only has 31.60%) Not that I'm mad at this because by all means, I hate Kingambit with a passion, but it's kind of surprising to see the king knocked off his stupid a word throne!
Click to expand...
Usage and viability aren’t the same — there is correlation, but it’s not absolute. Both are elite Pokemon that help define the tier of course.
 
viivian said:
gonna rapid fire a bunch of pokemon i think should rise or drop, since it has been a while since i last posted in this thread

rises:

:landorus_therian: A+ -> S-

echoing what 658Greninja said in his post, landorus-T has been a staple on offensive teams recently and only continues to improve over time. fantastic rocks setter and a good blanket check to pokemon like gouging fire (more on that later) and zamazenta. it can also run an offensive or choice scarf set that can turn the tables on many of its traditional counters while still reliably getting up rocks. it still remains an amazing glue mon despite the nerfs to its movepool, which is honestly very impressive

:gouging_fire: A -> A+

252+ Atk Protosynthesis Tera Dragon Gouging Fire Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 224-264 (44.4 - 52.3%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Protosynthesis Tera Dragon Gouging Fire Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 224-264 (44.4 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

calcs presented without comment

:iron_crown: A- -> A

iron crown is simply fantastic as an offensive pivot on bulky offense teams, especially since it's one of the few pokemon that can actually switch into and threaten subtect kyurem. being able to exert constant offensive pressure w/ future sight/psychic noise and volt switch is also incredibly valuable. not much to say about this mon, it was already amazing before but the fact that it's by far the best offensive check to sub kyurem leads me to believe that iron crown is deserving of a rise

:corviknight: B+ -> A-/A

turns out corviknight is still a surprisingly decent defogger once you pair it with additional hazard removal. it's currently a near staple on bootsless balance structures and for good reason, especially since it's one of the few pokemon who completely counters the likes of gliscor. overall a very solid pokemon and imo corviknight is currently the best it's been since the very beginning of SV OU

:zapdos: B+ -> A-/A

surprised zapdos hasn't risen higher than B+ on the last slate. its poor MUs into raging bolt and kyurem are definitely key factors in holding it back but it still does the same things it did during HOME and DLC1 and its defensive profile is still quite valuable rn. it lacks some of the options that makes moltres so good rn but it's definitely still a respectable pokemon, especially since it matches so much better into great tusk and boots zamazenta than moltres does since it doesn't fear knock off or stone edge as much as moltres does. despite not being as dominant as it once was, zapdos is still pretty solid as a blanket check to most of the tier's physical attackers and it definitely deserves a spot among the A ranks

:okidogi: B- -> B/B+

excellent check to darkrai, kingambit and zamazenta on offensive teams, and is one of the only pokemon capable of setting up alongside the latter thanks to the unique ability. okidogi being able to constantly force progress through knock off is also huge even if it can't break through a team by itself. this pokemon is heavily underrated rn and i'm surprised not many people are mentioning it

:hydrapple: B- -> B

i'll keep this one brief since i don't have too much to say about hydrapple, its NP sets are incredibly threatening against balance teams while still putting in work defensively via its typing + regenerator, allowing it to check pokemon like rillaboom and ogerpon. it's very unique as a wallbreaker between its valuable defensive qualities and its fantastic offensive profile. hydrapple has seen a fair bit of use during OLT and it's shown itself to be a very strong and consistent wallbreaker

:lokix:C+ -> B

lokix is quite possibly the quintessential tinted lens pokemon, between its typing and stat spread. u-turn is incredibly powerful and is great for generating momentum, its first impression keeps many offensive pokemon in check, knock off can force consistent progress against bulky teams, and in the last slot it can either run leech life to offset its hazard weakness or sucker punch to pick off faster pokemon even after using first impression. it fits nicely into the current metagame imo and is a very cool pokemon, glad it's seeing more use

:bellibolt: D -> C/C+

bellibolt is a unique defensive pokemon between its ability and movepool. electromorphisis (or whatever it's called) synergizes very well with its good natural bulk, and its access to some fun utility options like soak and toxic sets it apart from something like zapdos since it can actually threaten to cripple raging bolt w/ toxic. again, i don't really have much to say about bellibolt other than that i was wrong about it and didn't expect it to be quite this good

:chansey: UR -> C

while its inability to run HDB seriously hinders it, having far superior bulk compared to blissey gives chansey a niche on fat teams that carry hazard control. its reliance on eviolite does mean it requires far more support than its evolution in order to function, the advantages it has over blissey definitely make it worth using


drops:

:weavile: A -> A-
:meowscarada: B+ -> B

metagame trends have not been kind to either of these two pokemon. meowscarada's speed tier is, ironically, not fast enough to really justify using as speed control most of the time and is generally outclassed by ogerpon as a pivot. while ogerpon's base speed is slightly worse, it has a much better movepool, hits a lot harder and gets far more use out of terastallization. weavile, on the other hand, struggles a lot against common physical walls like alomomola and garganacl and isn't as offensively threatening as it was during the early DLC2 metagame

:skarmory: B+ -> B

skarmory is more often than not a complete momentum sink and is (still) just generally worse and harder to fit on teams than corviknight. the one advantage it has in access to entry hazards is hardly an advantage when it's significantly easier to exploit than any other viable hazard setter

:serperior: B -> B-/C+

serperior turned out to be a surprisingly mediocre pokemon in the end, but its reliance on terastallization to patch up its mono grass coverage is really starting to catch up to it. maybe in the future it'll be really dominant but rn it feels way too matchup-fishy to be as high as B tier

:blaziken: B- -> C+

blaziken is by no means a bad pokemon but it's just generally hard to fit when there are so many other offensive fire types that are simply better and easier to justify using. there's really not a lot to say about it, it's just heavily outclassed rn

:fezandipiti: C+ -> C

if fezandipiti was stronger offensively or at least had any valuable utility options like defog then it'd definitely be a solid albeit niche pick for bulky teams in need of a darkrai check. but its unique defensive profile doesn't really compensate for its lack of utility and pitiful damage output

really shitty writeup but just wanted to share my thoughts on what i think of the meta rn, lemme know your thoughts n what you agree/disagree with
Click to expand...
Absolutely agree with iron crown to A. Av sets, as you mentioned, are great defensively while being much more threatening than something like glowking. Specs sets are incredible at making progress with psynoise and tachyon. Additionally, it can be hard to distinguish between av and specs on preview, making crown harder to play against. While less common, calm mind sets are still great on hyper offense and can get out of hand very quickly
 
#1 Talonflame Enjoyer said:
Holy power creep, when did Great Tusk go from S to A+? I just checked Showdex, and it says that currently Great Tusk is #1 on the OU Ladder, beating out Kingambit by 0.73% (Great Tusk, as of posting this has a usage stat of 32.33%, and Kingambit only has 31.60%) Not that I'm mad at this because by all means, I hate Kingambit with a passion, but it's kind of surprising to see the king knocked off his stupid a word throne!
Click to expand...
not rly power creep but more of tusk being not as necessary anymore - u can run zama or lando for your physdef tank on BO, or run other removal like corv or ace. Plus it's not the blanket phys check it was at the start of the gen, as the common phys threats of acrobatics rmoon, ogerpon, zama etc. all get around it quite well.
 
I have a couple nominations I want to list

Slowking-Galar A+ --> S

This mon tends to fall under the radar when it comes to discussing the best mon in the tier but I really think this mon shouldn't be anywhere but the highest tier. Future Sight can create some nasty combos capable of breaking pretty much anything, and it gives endless free switch ins to some of the most threatening pokemon in the game. It also is basically required on any balance team, since dropping it basically means you auto lose to walking wake in sun. It also, unlike most walls, can deal respectable damage in its own right with the previously mentioned future sight, stab sludge bomb, and even a third attack like ice beam or flamethrower on occasion. It also can spread toxic to put switchins on a timer or thunderwave to cripple fast offensive threats. It also has the invaluable trait of absorbing tspikes, which is helpful for easily removing glimmoras tspikes.

Zamazenta S --> A+ or lower

I was already confused about why zamazenta is above stuff like pult and glowking, but with the depature of gouging fire this thing really shouldn't be this high anymore. Don't get me wrong, zama is still a top tier choice, but body press being its only actually threatening move on its standard set means it can be incredibly passive aganist fighting resistant opponents. Sure it has crunch for ghosts, but due to its low base power, and zama's attack stat only being 120 (often uninvested too) its laughable to the likes of gholdengo, who can also set up nasty plot on it. Even dragapult (which isn't exactly bulky) only takes 53%-63% from crunch, and can ruin non rest variants in return with will-o-wisp, even if zama gets a sub up because of infiltrator. It can also be taken advantage of by most setup sweepers if they decide to tera ghost, often forcing it to run roar. When it runs roar it also has no coverage for fairies, meaning its easy setup for valiant. It also generally lets gliscor stack hazards for free. Despite all this I still think its a great mon, one of the best in the tier for sure, but I don't believe a pokemon with this many glaring flaws deserves to be in S tier, especially after one of the things it was used for holding off just got banned.
 
JackRG said:
I have a couple nominations I want to list

Slowking-Galar A+ --> S

This mon tends to fall under the radar when it comes to discussing the best mon in the tier but I really think this mon shouldn't be anywhere but the highest tier. Future Sight can create some nasty combos capable of breaking pretty much anything, and it gives endless free switch ins to some of the most threatening pokemon in the game. It also is basically required on any balance team, since dropping it basically means you auto lose to walking wake in sun. It also, unlike most walls, can deal respectable damage in its own right with the previously mentioned future sight, stab sludge bomb, and even a third attack like ice beam or flamethrower on occasion. It also can spread toxic to put switchins on a timer or thunderwave to cripple fast offensive threats. It also has the invaluable trait of absorbing tspikes, which is helpful for easily removing glimmoras tspikes.

Zamazenta S --> A+ or lower

I was already confused about why zamazenta is above stuff like pult and glowking, but with the depature of gouging fire this thing really shouldn't be this high anymore. Don't get me wrong, zama is still a top tier choice, but body press being its only actually threatening move on its standard set means it can be incredibly passive aganist fighting resistant opponents. Sure it has crunch for ghosts, but due to its low base power, and zama's attack stat only being 120 (often uninvested too) its laughable to the likes of gholdengo, who can also set up nasty plot on it. Even dragapult (which isn't exactly bulky) only takes 53%-63% from crunch, and can ruin non rest variants in return with will-o-wisp, even if zama gets a sub up because of infiltrator. It can also be taken advantage of by most setup sweepers if they decide to tera ghost, often forcing it to run roar. When it runs roar it also has no coverage for fairies, meaning its easy setup for valiant. It also generally lets gliscor stack hazards for free. Despite all this I still think its a great mon, one of the best in the tier for sure, but I don't believe a pokemon with this many glaring flaws deserves to be in S tier, especially after one of the things it was used for holding off just got banned.
Click to expand...
Glowking, as excellent as it is, isn't the best mon in the tier, not even close and has flaws holding it back, much more so than Zama. It's not required on Balance, as there are tools for dealing with Sun and Wake (Tera Water Garg puts immense pressure on these structures), but Glowking itself tends to find itself stretched too thin in trying to do too much. Boots sets are easier to overwhelm with repeated strong hits, while AV struggles with hazard stacking that makes it easier to break down over time. It also has issues with metagame staples like Samurott-H, who it gives endless free turns to spike and damage Glowking's team, while pokemon such as Kingambit, Ting-Lu, Gholdengo are not fun to give free switch ins to either.

As for Zama, it's an outstanding glue pokemon on all sorts of teams, offering a buffer against a ton of dangerous, difficult to handle threats, while posing a huge threat itself. It's also nowhere near passive at all. Body Press, especially boosted, hardly care about frailer resists, while more defensive answers can be dealt with via other moves. Roar Zama is notorious for this, beating other set up threats while Crunch is more than enough for the majority of ghosts. It's hardly laughable against Ghold, as bulkless sets take 45% minimum and risk defense drops while Dragapult has no recovery and eating a Crunch on the switch also opens up Zama's teammates that are checked by Pult. The amount of Tera Ghost is in large part BECAUSE of Zamazenta, and Roar variants are still able to get around this mostly. It's got flaws, but despite this, Zama proves to be able to perform consistently and always puts in great work.
 
Moyashi said:
Glowking, as excellent as it is, isn't the best mon in the tier, not even close and has flaws holding it back, much more so than Zama. It's not required on Balance, as there are tools for dealing with Sun and Wake (Tera Water Garg puts immense pressure on these structures), but Glowking itself tends to find itself stretched too thin in trying to do too much. Boots sets are easier to overwhelm with repeated strong hits, while AV struggles with hazard stacking that makes it easier to break down over time. It also has issues with metagame staples like Samurott-H, who it gives endless free turns to spike and damage Glowking's team, while pokemon such as Kingambit, Ting-Lu, Gholdengo are not fun to give free switch ins to either.

As for Zama, it's an outstanding glue pokemon on all sorts of teams, offering a buffer against a ton of dangerous, difficult to handle threats, while posing a huge threat itself. It's also nowhere near passive at all. Body Press, especially boosted, hardly care about frailer resists, while more defensive answers can be dealt with via other moves. Roar Zama is notorious for this, beating other set up threats while Crunch is more than enough for the majority of ghosts. It's hardly laughable against Ghold, as bulkless sets take 45% minimum and risk defense drops while Dragapult has no recovery and eating a Crunch on the switch also opens up Zama's teammates that are checked by Pult. The amount of Tera Ghost is in large part BECAUSE of Zamazenta, and Roar variants are still able to get around this mostly. It's got flaws, but despite this, Zama proves to be able to perform consistently and always puts in great work.
Click to expand...
yeah glowking does have a lot of issues, but all the pokemon that threaten it risk just be scouted upon switch in, so I wouldn't call them "free" switch ins but it can be prediction reliant when deciding to future sight or chilly.

and I agree zamazenta is really good, I just would not put it on the level as something like dragapult or gambit, hence the nomination to drop (Maybe S- is more fair?)
 
Moyashi said:
It's hardly laughable against Ghold, as bulkless sets take 45% minimum and risk defense drops
Click to expand...
Also I should clarify, I meant specifically defense variants of ghold (I think bold ghold takes around 30%), but yeah offensive ghold is still fairly threatened
 
:Landorus-Therian: A+ -> S-

Lando-T seems to be a standout in the crowded A+ rank. Lando soft checks a plethora of common mons and provides valuable role compression in the builder. Being able to decide between EQ and Earth Power to hit the mons its team needs is the extra bit of versatility that I feel propels Lando to a cut above A+. It’s just the perfect glue mon for so many teams.
 
I was going to wait a while to make noms, but since the voting is starting, I think I'm just going to make some of my noms now.

:great tusk: A+ -> S
Ngl, tusk has always been a top 5 mon and it probably will never stop being that. Its the most reliable hazard control in the tier by far (corv is good and all, but getting stuffed by ghold is not fun, and corv honestly has lots of other moves it also wants) and is a powerful offensive threat that can soft check a lot of mons in the tier from bolt, to gambit, to gliscor, to ace, to garg and many more. Tusk also honestly has way more flexibility in its moveslots then people give it credit for. Headlong, rapid and ice spinner are necessary, but the last moveslot can be knock, rocks, bu, taunt, roar, stone edge and temper flare. And to somebody who says "but it struggles to get hazards off in an offensive meta" (because I know somebody is going to say that), honestly in those matchups it spinning isn't needed as much due to the high pace of the teams its facing, and even if you do need to spin, every ghost besides sinistcha doesn't want to switch into tusk for fear of getting ripped apart by its common moves.

:enamorus: A- -> B+
Enamorus isn't good, ngl. Enam has to run scarf in order to actually deal with offensive threats due to its middling speed, as otherwise it is not good at all against offense. Due to this, it lets any sort of fairy resist in for free to setup, which is not fun, and due to being rocks weak requires hazard control. Healing wish is cool and all, but you honestly can do better with putting an actually good mon on the team then having to sack enam to have a second teammate. The other sets are very mid, cm can cheese some teams, but struggles to get a sub up, while specs also has the choice lock issues and doesn't do well against offensive teams. Due to all of this, enam should fall.

:heatran: Keep B+
I'm hearing a lot of heatran hate, and ngl, its not deserved in the slightest. The ground weakness is overcome by air balloon, which you should always be running on heatran, and most mons in the tier don't really like switching into heatran. It also absolutely decimates any defensive team that doesn't have a fire resist that also has recovery and good special bulk. Some stall teams, just kind of flounder against it (mola only beats tran if its specially defensive mola, since otherwise it falls to magma storm+e-power below 70%, though 80% is more likely after magma chip). The main issue with tran is that magma storm has 10% accuracy when you use it but when you can eliminate important mons such as mono knock gliscor (or mono e-quake gliscor if you keep balloon), glowking and sinistcha, its more then worth it.

:skeledirge: Keep B
Another mon that I think has an undeserved amount of hate, skeledirge is an alright mon in the meta. I think the main reason why people think this mon is bad is because they compare it to dondozo and clodsire, who are unaware walls that are able to handle basically anything on a specific side of the attacking spectrum. Skeledirge is not at all comparable to them as it is wildly different (I'll be talking about the physically defensive set, as the specially defensive set is ass and idk why its the standard set). Skeledirge is a temporary stopgap to setup sweepers that can spread burns reliably while also being a potential setup sweeper on its own. This is something that honestly, nothing else in the metagame can replicate. It can even take powerful super effective hits such as moon's knock or non tera dark gambit kowtow cleave from full and burn them, making them a lot more managable for teammates. Glowking doesn't want to switch into skeledirge at all, as after its burned by wisp, it falls to torch song into boosted hex all the time. I also think that the claims that skele falls to tera fire crunch zama is overblown, the same happens with pult and honestly, it takes little damage from crunch anyways (only 28% max) and just torch songs constantly until unboosted hex takes out zama. Something like d-nite rarely 2hit ko's dirge and gets crippled by burn, valiant knock doesn't even do 50% lol, gliscor is doing minimal damage and dirge just torch songs on it and hexes it to death. The tera weakness is definetely a big deal, but when you get a mon which can now stop a setup sweeper and have a potentially great defensive typing, you will take it. Dirge is still great even if it doesn't have to tera, and as you can see from all this yapping, I think its pretty great.

:quagsire: UR -> D
SupaGmoney recently peaked with a quagsire stall here and its also in samples. I'll just quote what Supa said about quag, its a great mon on stall and should be ranked.
Naturally, you may ask “Why use :Quagsire: over :Dondozo: or :Clodsire:?” :Quagsire: excels in the role compression and flexibility it is able to offer to the team. :Quagsire: has an excellent defensive typing that matches well into the majority of physical threats in the meta. The Water type in particular is very useful and is something that :Clodsire: cannot provide.

However, the biggest differentiator for :Quagsire: is that it is able to use Recover, unlike :dondozo:, who is forced to use Rest. As a result, :Quagsire: is significantly less passive and generates fewer free turns for the opponent. Unlike :Dondozo:, who may need a few turns to stack Curse boosts, :Quagsire: is able to immediately threaten most setup sweepers like :Gouging-Fire: and :zamazenta: with Toxic and Earthquake. Additionally, :Quagsire: is much harder to abuse with switches to common answers like :Slowking-Galar: and :Gliscor: as :Quagsire: can guarantee progress every time it hits the field by setting up Stealth Rock. This also frees up :Blissey: to run additional coverage to hit Ghost Pokémon like :Gholdengo:, meaning that :Clodsire: is also not required on this team. Although using Recover means that :Quagsire: is vulnerable to status, :Blissey:, :Toxapex:, and :Gliscor: are able to pick up the slack as status absorbers.
Click to expand...
 
Yeah, I agree with Lando-T to S-. A mon that beat the living shit out of it (Gouging Fire) has been banned, which makes Lando more consistent at its role of checking physical attackers. Offensive Lando may not be as a big of a threat as offensive Tusk is, but Lando has more variety in sets than Tusk that ultimately fill more niches than Tusk does. It's the best Ground-type Pokemon in OU largely 'cause of its role compression owed in part due to its defensive typing and kit that works perfectly for what it needs to do and should rise a subrank to reflect that. Lando-T is still fantastic despite the movepool nerfs and has stood the test of time.

Lando-T is also better at checking Raging Bolt than Great Tusk is 'cause the latter has awful special bulk. No-bulk Lando can at least force a Booster Special Attack Raging Bolt out (assuming the Raging Bolt doesn't Tera) even if it switches in to a Dragon Pulse while Tusk is most likely KOed outright. For reference:

252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 343-405 (92.4 - 109.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top