Resource SV OU Indigo Disk Viability Ranking Thread - (update on post #643)

Feel like based on some of the low tier guys (comfey and scream tail in C tier, harcanine in D) there are definitely a few mons I’ve used and seen recently that deserve to be raised from UR.

In no specific order, Gapdos, Mew, Chesnaught, Zarude, Crawdaunt, and mayyybe Diancie all I think coulf see rising to D. Lowk i think Gapdos could even see C tier but that might be just me.

Box of potential sets:
https://pokepast.es/3973bea42a7ac488

Galarian Zapdos is an excellent breaker or rkiller depending on which choice item you give it. It has nigh unresisted coverage (except Gholdengo and ironically Zapdos, both of which detest Knock), and hits crazy hard, capable of ohkoing or 2hkoing nearly everything in the tier with timely reads. It also generates momentum exceedingly easy with U-turn, and shrugs off hazards with its phenomenal typing. Knock is also a guaranteed progress forcing option, and OHKOs offensive dengo on Band sets. It takes advantage of the slew of grounds in the tier exceptionally well, notably Landorus-Therian which it absolutely farms thanks to Defiant. Defiant is also nice in other corcumstances, notably as a defog discourager and miscellaneous drops from hamurott, dengo, and more. Its speed outspeeds key targets like lando, kyu, and tusk, and its bulk is also decent, at 90/90/90, meaning it can take on neutral hits with ease before hitting back with blistering strength. Additionally, while less viable than the other sets, I think a sub/taunt bulk up set is also usable for taking advantage of lando, clod, and gliscor, and also (similarly to band) breaks stall incredibly well while having increasing longevity than band often does. Main drawback of this mon imo is how fast it dies to recoil, but it does what it is supposed to remarkably well.

Mew is a cool niche offensive hazard lead I’ve seen a bit of recently, having remarkable lead mus into many other leads and hazard removers. It ohkos tusk, 2hkos corv (if you’re lucky) and tusk, and helmet prevents treads and glimm from spinning on it more than once. It’s similar to deo-s, but trades speed for bulk and different coverage, which I think gives it a solid niche.

Zarude plays like a less splashable Pon with a worse typing, but increased bulk and stab knock off plus the ability to hold an item give it a niche and make it an even better stallbreaker. aside from the sets above, a recent Fez + Zarude Sun RMT saw incredible success at top ladder, forget exactly what the peak was but it was definitely top 10. On Sun, it further takes advantage of leaf guard, preventing status like burns from pult and toxic from scor, pex, or clod, and a boosted synthesis for incredible recovery. Overall, I would say this mon definitely deserves a spot.

Chesnaught was taken off recently and I’m not sure why. While Skarm is much better in many ways, Stab Body Press, Knock, and ability to check non PR Pon much better give it a significant niche. Additionally, it can forgo spikes and use a bulk up knock set to not only check pon and gambit, but also function as a pseudo-gholdengo and iron crown check after tera thanks to bulletproof blocking shadow ball and focus blast. This plays more similarly to okidogi then skarm, and has a different role, but I think both are solid and have distinguishable niches that deserve a D tier spot.

Daunt doesn’t need much of an explanation, with proper hazard support it still poses a threat to bulky and fast paces teams alike. Strong priority + strong knock is a lovely combo in this meta, and while it competes with lokix and sciz in this role, it breaks stall and fat better than either of the other two do. Main flaw is being a water breaker in a pon metagame, but I still think this mon has a niche.

Diancie is the most questionable here perhaps but it functions as a very strong bulky attacker and trick room setter that enables semiroom very well, which gambit appreciates immensely. Meteor beam is a goated move and after beaming it has nigh unresisted coverage in moonblast + earth power. It has very good bulk as well, able to eat a plethora of super effective hits before setting tr and forcing out common threats to it.

Overall, I think there are a slew of niche viable mons unmentioned on the VR, and would like at least some of them (gapdos haha) to see some consideration.
 
Feel like based on some of the low tier guys (comfey and scream tail in C tier, harcanine in D) there are definitely a few mons I’ve used and seen recently that deserve to be raised from UR.

In no specific order, Gapdos, Mew, Chesnaught, Zarude, Crawdaunt, and mayyybe Diancie all I think coulf see rising to D. Lowk i think Gapdos could even see C tier but that might be just me.

Box of potential sets:
https://pokepast.es/3973bea42a7ac488

Galarian Zapdos is an excellent breaker or rkiller depending on which choice item you give it. It has nigh unresisted coverage (except Gholdengo and ironically Zapdos, both of which detest Knock), and hits crazy hard, capable of ohkoing or 2hkoing nearly everything in the tier with timely reads. It also generates momentum exceedingly easy with U-turn, and shrugs off hazards with its phenomenal typing. Knock is also a guaranteed progress forcing option, and OHKOs offensive dengo on Band sets. It takes advantage of the slew of grounds in the tier exceptionally well, notably Landorus-Therian which it absolutely farms thanks to Defiant. Defiant is also nice in other corcumstances, notably as a defog discourager and miscellaneous drops from hamurott, dengo, and more. Its speed outspeeds key targets like lando, kyu, and tusk, and its bulk is also decent, at 90/90/90, meaning it can take on neutral hits with ease before hitting back with blistering strength. Additionally, while less viable than the other sets, I think a sub/taunt bulk up set is also usable for taking advantage of lando, clod, and gliscor, and also (similarly to band) breaks stall incredibly well while having increasing longevity than band often does. Main drawback of this mon imo is how fast it dies to recoil, but it does what it is supposed to remarkably well.

Mew is a cool niche offensive hazard lead I’ve seen a bit of recently, having remarkable lead mus into many other leads and hazard removers. It ohkos tusk, 2hkos corv (if you’re lucky) and tusk, and helmet prevents treads and glimm from spinning on it more than once. It’s similar to deo-s, but trades speed for bulk and different coverage, which I think gives it a solid niche.

Zarude plays like a less splashable Pon with a worse typing, but increased bulk and stab knock off plus the ability to hold an item give it a niche and make it an even better stallbreaker. aside from the sets above, a recent Fez + Zarude Sun RMT saw incredible success at top ladder, forget exactly what the peak was but it was definitely top 10. On Sun, it further takes advantage of leaf guard, preventing status like burns from pult and toxic from scor, pex, or clod, and a boosted synthesis for incredible recovery. Overall, I would say this mon definitely deserves a spot.

Chesnaught was taken off recently and I’m not sure why. While Skarm is much better in many ways, Stab Body Press, Knock, and ability to check non PR Pon much better give it a significant niche. Additionally, it can forgo spikes and use a bulk up knock set to not only check pon and gambit, but also function as a pseudo-gholdengo and iron crown check after tera thanks to bulletproof blocking shadow ball and focus blast. This plays more similarly to okidogi then skarm, and has a different role, but I think both are solid and have distinguishable niches that deserve a D tier spot.

Daunt doesn’t need much of an explanation, with proper hazard support it still poses a threat to bulky and fast paces teams alike. Strong priority + strong knock is a lovely combo in this meta, and while it competes with lokix and sciz in this role, it breaks stall and fat better than either of the other two do. Main flaw is being a water breaker in a pon metagame, but I still think this mon has a niche.

Diancie is the most questionable here perhaps but it functions as a very strong bulky attacker and trick room setter that enables semiroom very well, which gambit appreciates immensely. Meteor beam is a goated move and after beaming it has nigh unresisted coverage in moonblast + earth power. It has very good bulk as well, able to eat a plethora of super effective hits before setting tr and forcing out common threats to it.

Overall, I think there are a slew of niche viable mons unmentioned on the VR, and would like at least some of them (gapdos haha) to see some consideration.
Hi there - if you're nominating unranked mons to the viability list you need to submit replays showing how they performed in mid-to-high ladder.
 
:Frosmoth: from UR to D

Frosmoth is a surprisingly good bulky set up sweeper in the current metagame and I can only see it getting better with the reintroduction of Kyurem into OU. It's Ice Scales Ability let's it reliably take neutral hits on the special side and after a few Quiver Dances, it becomes almost impossible to take it down even with super effective special attacks.

Depending on the Tera it runs, it can reliably set up on many Special attackers including Raging Bolt, GlowKing, Iron Crown, and Zapdos to name a few.

With a positive speed Nature and max speed investment, it hits 251 speed which jumps to 376 after a speed boost from Quiver Dance. This allows it to outrun threats such as Cinderace, Serperior, Wellspring Ogerpon and Latios/ Latias as well as non Speed boosted versions of Iron Moth, Iron Valiant, Roaring Moon and Walking Wake.

However, although I do feel this mon deserves a spot on the Viability Rankings, I don't see it going much higher than D tier at the moment do to its terrible defensive typing which makes it 4x weak to Stealth Rock as well as being vulnerable to all other Entry Hazards, limited special move pool and over reliance on not only Terastilization but Tera Blast as well.
I forgot to add replays to this post. Might edit some more into the original post later but for right now, here's two of my favorite replays featuring Frosmoth

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2226368441-dkzupe970riuqj9436v1ad4q0ncefd7pw

At around turn 30, Frosmoth comes in, takes Stealth Rock and Spikes (one layer) damage in base form and still muscles it's way through to reverse sweep the opponent's team

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2213463323-at2vzwmj5rrp0nnytga0rm8krtcfofopw?p2

This is another replay that shows how dangerous it can become once it gets Quiver Dance going
 
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I forgot to add replays to this post. Might edit some more into the original post later but for right now, here's two of my favorite replays featuring Frosmoth

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2226368441-dkzupe970riuqj9436v1ad4q0ncefd7pw

At around turn 30, Frosmoth comes in, takes Stealth Rock and Spikes (one layer) damage in base form and still muscles it's way through to reverse sweep the opponent's team

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2213463323-at2vzwmj5rrp0nnytga0rm8krtcfofopw?p2

This is another replay that shows how dangerous it can become once it gets Quiver Dance going
Watching this now, the first replay had some severe misplays I have to note on the opponent's part that would have very likely impacted the outcome of that match.

- Turn 1 they simply let AV Samurott-H go down with only one layer of Spikes. Had they swapped it out for Pecharunt, they would have retained Sam as another check into Kingambit, while if they had gone for a second Ceaseless Edge the additional Spike would have chipped your switches a lot more over the course of the game. I can't speak to if the latter would have decided it outright since likely several other turns would have changed, but that extra 4% matters considering how close your Kingambit and Frosmoth brushed with death before some crucial KOs. He kind of just threw away lead on very sub-optimal plays considering your team really doesn't enjoy Spikes and there wasn't anything significant to preserve it as a check for.

- Turn 24 he has Pecharunt Parting Shot into Weezing-G into Great Tusk, immediately getting it KO'd when you still had Kingambit in the back. There was little reason not to just Shadow Ball your Weezing there, especially since besides Strange Steam, it risks a Pain Split or a WoW since it's slower than the Pivot. 4-Fainted Gambit can't KO Tusk from 62% even after SR, so the worst case scenario to staying in with Pecharunt was a hard-switch into Gambit, at which point Pech PS's to Valiant (who doesn't contribute against much else since Lucha outspeeds even if it had BE), resulting in either
  • Valiant gets sacced to Iron Head, giving Tusk a free-Entry, at which point your only switch-in with any safety for HLR is Hawlucha (weighing that against Ice Spinner which easily puts it in range for Dragonite
  • Valiant tanks Knock Off/Sucker Punch off 4x Dark Resist forces it out with the threat of CC for an OHKO or Moonblast to chunk Hawlucha and Weezing (KO'd after hazards from its Health Range), while still doing ~45% to a Bulky Gambit (Iron Head being its only winning scenario IF IV went for Moon predicting a Switch or Sucker)
The big part I have to note for this interaction is that unlike most Kingambit match-ups, Tera-ing here would have been a massive risk because Frosmoth required it at the end to survive Enamorus's Choice Locked Mystical Fires and actually set itself up. Kingambit is very strong IF it has the threat of Tera, which is severely hampered by being paired with a Tera-hog win condition on top of that.

The replay is good form for Forum posting, but given how some of the above had to come together, I don't think the first is a strong show of Frosmoth as a win-condition vs the myriad of other Set-up sweepers/cleaners in OU, the latter of which can take advantage of others using Tera to position or punch holes for them rather than depend on it themselves.

The second replay there are some odd plays I would note like Moltres just kind of Roost-stalling in front of your Vaporeon instead of going to Bolt.

- I would say they Tera'd Gliscor too soon against your Vaporeon on Turn 22, since it got Poisoned and thus didn't have to fear a Scald Burn as it did before its entry, and could have grabbed an additional SD Boost with Protect to pad out Poison Heal turns. At +4 it threatens 60-70% without Normal-STAB and is still full Health, so from full it can easily grab the second Boost while tanking the first Scald. It then had its pick of going for the KO roll, going to +6, or Protecting for more PH since your Vaporeon already losts its Leftovers and thus would stay in range without a Wish. Gliscor retaining its typing makes it a MUCH bigger headache for your Tusk unless it has Ice Spinner (and even then Gliscor has ways out on top since it outspeeds Tusk). Tera Gliscor was actually their best win-condition against your team if you lost Kingambit, considering how little half of them can do to it with its base typing on top of other serious problem opponents (Hawlucha into Ghold for another roadblock).

- At endgame, they just kept Gholdengo in and allowed you to set-up with Moth. Since you had already Tera'd it to Ground, I think the immediate play was to hard-switch into Moltres. Moltres threatens to Roar Moth out into Gweezing, which halts your set-up and removes the option to Sub. Attacking Moltres retains the +1, but Jolly Weavile outspeeds Max +1 Moth and KO's in 2+ hits of Triple Axel (81% chance)


What I'm getting at here is that the situations where Frosmoth was able to pull off these wins still either required severe misplays to capitalize on, or had exit conditions by the time they happened.
 
Watching this now, the first replay had some severe misplays I have to note on the opponent's part that would have very likely impacted the outcome of that match.

- Turn 1 they simply let AV Samurott-H go down with only one layer of Spikes. Had they swapped it out for Pecharunt, they would have retained Sam as another check into Kingambit, while if they had gone for a second Ceaseless Edge the additional Spike would have chipped your switches a lot more over the course of the game. I can't speak to if the latter would have decided it outright since likely several other turns would have changed, but that extra 4% matters considering how close your Kingambit and Frosmoth brushed with death before some crucial KOs. He kind of just threw away lead on very sub-optimal plays considering your team really doesn't enjoy Spikes and there wasn't anything significant to preserve it as a check for.

- Turn 24 he has Pecharunt Parting Shot into Weezing-G into Great Tusk, immediately getting it KO'd when you still had Kingambit in the back. There was little reason not to just Shadow Ball your Weezing there, especially since besides Strange Steam, it risks a Pain Split or a WoW since it's slower than the Pivot. 4-Fainted Gambit can't KO Tusk from 62% even after SR, so the worst case scenario to staying in with Pecharunt was a hard-switch into Gambit, at which point Pech PS's to Valiant (who doesn't contribute against much else since Lucha outspeeds even if it had BE), resulting in either
  • Valiant gets sacced to Iron Head, giving Tusk a free-Entry, at which point your only switch-in with any safety for HLR is Hawlucha (weighing that against Ice Spinner which easily puts it in range for Dragonite
  • Valiant tanks Knock Off/Sucker Punch off 4x Dark Resist forces it out with the threat of CC for an OHKO or Moonblast to chunk Hawlucha and Weezing (KO'd after hazards from its Health Range), while still doing ~45% to a Bulky Gambit (Iron Head being its only winning scenario IF IV went for Moon predicting a Switch or Sucker)
The big part I have to note for this interaction is that unlike most Kingambit match-ups, Tera-ing here would have been a massive risk because Frosmoth required it at the end to survive Enamorus's Choice Locked Mystical Fires and actually set itself up. Kingambit is very strong IF it has the threat of Tera, which is severely hampered by being paired with a Tera-hog win condition on top of that.

The replay is good form for Forum posting, but given how some of the above had to come together, I don't think the first is a strong show of Frosmoth as a win-condition vs the myriad of other Set-up sweepers/cleaners in OU, the latter of which can take advantage of others using Tera to position or punch holes for them rather than depend on it themselves.

The second replay there are some odd plays I would note like Moltres just kind of Roost-stalling in front of your Vaporeon instead of going to Bolt.

- I would say they Tera'd Gliscor too soon against your Vaporeon on Turn 22, since it got Poisoned and thus didn't have to fear a Scald Burn as it did before its entry, and could have grabbed an additional SD Boost with Protect to pad out Poison Heal turns. At +4 it threatens 60-70% without Normal-STAB and is still full Health, so from full it can easily grab the second Boost while tanking the first Scald. It then had its pick of going for the KO roll, going to +6, or Protecting for more PH since your Vaporeon already losts its Leftovers and thus would stay in range without a Wish. Gliscor retaining its typing makes it a MUCH bigger headache for your Tusk unless it has Ice Spinner (and even then Gliscor has ways out on top since it outspeeds Tusk). Tera Gliscor was actually their best win-condition against your team if you lost Kingambit, considering how little half of them can do to it with its base typing on top of other serious problem opponents (Hawlucha into Ghold for another roadblock).

- At endgame, they just kept Gholdengo in and allowed you to set-up with Moth. Since you had already Tera'd it to Ground, I think the immediate play was to hard-switch into Moltres. Moltres threatens to Roar Moth out into Gweezing, which halts your set-up and removes the option to Sub. Attacking Moltres retains the +1, but Jolly Weavile outspeeds Max +1 Moth and KO's in 2+ hits of Triple Axel (81% chance)


What I'm getting at here is that the situations where Frosmoth was able to pull off these wins still either required severe misplays to capitalize on, or had exit conditions by the time they happened.
I don't think the Samurott play is as bad as you think it is. Pecharunt plays a big part in the opponent's team and getting rid of Misty Terrain sooner or hitting an incoming Tusk is not really a bad play.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2212749659?p2

Here's another Replay I feel is pretty solid and shows how not being able to break Frosmoth's Substitute can be disastrous
 
:sv/rillaboom:
Some people wanna drop the Rilla even further and I just don’t see it. B+ is a fine placement. It dislikes the increased Zap/Molt and Pecharunt usage, as well as Dnite, but none of those like eating a Knock except Pecha. Rilla is also still valuable for checking Waterpon and rkilling stuff like Valiant or low health Roaring Moon. Choice Band is pretty bad rn but LO Tera Fire SD is great at wallbreaking teams reliant on Molt, G-Weez, or fast Grass resistant Wispers (Cinder/Pult) to check it.

Some people wanna drop the Rilla even further and I just don’t see it. B+ is a fine placement. It dislikes the increased Zap/Molt and Pecharunt usage, as well as Dnite, but none of those like eating a Knock except Pecha. Rilla is also still valuable for checking Waterpon and rkilling stuff like Valiant or low health Roaring Moon. Choice Band is pretty bad rn but LO Tera Fire SD is great at wallbreaking teams reliant on Molt, G-Weez, or fast Grass resistant Wispers (Cinder/Pult) to check it. +2 LO Knock has a 50/50 roll to OHKO Pecha after rocks. You could also run Tera Dark Knock to have a roll to one-shot Zap/Molt, and Corv while giving Rilla a Sucker resistance.

Now for some quick noms.

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A > A-
Deo usage has been declining lately and A tier isn’t reflective of that. Faces competition from other specially-oriented attackers like Darkrai and mixed attackers like Valiant or Kyurem. Spikes are nice though and NP sets can be dangerous with that speed tier, but I think the initial hype has worn off.

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A > A-
Players have gotten better at exploiting Garg. It really hates SubTect Kyu, Gking, Spike Stacking, Taunt Moon, and the increased Hydrapple usage. Garg still has great matchups into weather, HO, and non Focus Miss Darkrai while denying Pheal recovery from Gliscor, but Garg Balances are not as great as they were during the Summer.

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A > A-
Like Garg, players have gotten better at taking advantage of Moltres. More AoA Zama with Stone Edge, Valiant has been teching Tbolt to smack it. Molt is kinda forced into certain movesets which effects its matchups. Without Roar it fumbles to Iron Press Tera Fire Sama. Without U-Turn it ends up being passive into Gking/Mola builds. Without Wisp its reliant on luck to burn physical threats.

IMG_8363.png
B+ > A-
Big fan of Cornerstone. It has better matchups into Wogre checks like Kyurem, Dnite, and Raging Bolt. SD Cudgel/Pwhip/Stomping or Knock can break a ton of Balances while being an anti-HO mon with Sturdy. Its a great lead to with options like Spikes, Encore, SD Trailblaze, Counter, etc.

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B+ > B
Stall is worse rn, especially with Kyurem returning. Clodsire is SD Gliscor food and harder to justify over the other Grounds. Dozo is passive as shit and needs to choose between getting walled by Waterpon, getting walled by Ghosts, or the awkward midground that gets you walled by Ghold anyways.

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B > B+
Pecha’s been popping off this OLT and SPL as a Balance or BO pivot/spinblocker. Parting Shot is a broken move that gives opportunities to stuff like Waterpon or Kyurem to go ape shit and Pecha itself checks anti-HO stuff like Dnite, Zama, Val, etc. It’s the perfect partner for the Samu/Lando hazard core that gets spammed on ladder/tours.

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B- > lower
IMG_7994.jpeg


This shit’s a fucking fraud. Too Tera reliant, too frail and priority weak. Val is much better.

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B- > C+
Pains me to say this as the Okidogi Nation leader but B- is too high for it rn. Still crazy good at checking Darkrai/Zama while mashing Knock Off, but it doesn’t like that one of Zama’s most common partners is defensive Ghold which shits on it. The trait of hard checking Ironpress Zama isn’t super unique these days with other options like Zapdos, Pecha, and Slither Wing being experimented with. Btw, use AV Toxic Chain, shits fire.
 
I would like to make some nominations for fun.

Well a nomination.

Personally I think Great Tusk and Zamazenta should switch places.

Zamazenta is a really good pokemon with its iron press set but the problem is no matter what coverage moves it has and what it teras there will always be at least one pokemon that sits on it. It does also have an all out attacking set but at least compared to iron press it is a meme.

Great Tusk while having some obvious weaknesses is the best spinner in the tier for a reason. It not only beats gholdengo (who is at the very least the most used spin blocker in the tier) but it also has some amazing offensive moves that allow it to kill/cripple other pokemon if it needs to. It has way more set variety than zama with at least 3 really good sets (maybe more that I am not thinking of). Great Tusk is probably the best ground type to ever be in ou (yes even better than bw/oras excadrill) and a s rank would absolutely reflect that just like how the usage stats already are.
 
A bit of a weird nom here, but I'd like to nominate :araquanid: from C --> B

I think Webs is clearly still an excellent playstyle right now (and it's very prominent on the ladder in light of the Gliscor suspect), and with that in mind I don't think Araquanid deserves a lower placement than Ribombee in any regard since it very clearly distinguishes itself from Ribombee with its better bulk to set Webs throughout a game, its very strong Water STAB that gives it excellent matchups into both Iron Treads and most notably Iron Moth (the latter of which is an infamously rough matchup for Ribombee lacking Psychic Noise since Moth sets up one Sub and 6-0s from there), and some cool techs like Endure, Custap+Endeavor, and Mirror Coat that give Araquanid some highly unique tools for a Webs setter.

I simply don't think Araquanid is any worse than Ribombee or that Ribombee is necessarily better than Araquanid; Webs teams have a genuine choice between the two since, while they both ultimately just set Webs and eventually die, they keep those Webs up in vastly different ways. As such, I think ranking the two identically is fitting; there really is no "better" choice between the two IMO, and I'm not sure I could even argue in good faith that Ribombee should drop (besides MAYBE to B-?) because I think Webs feels incredibly powerful at the moment.
 
Hello all, just wanted to put my personal VR somewhere seeing as gliscor is getting suspected rn. I don't play tours, mostly stick to ladder, but I experiment w/ a lot of weird shit usually in the 1900s so here's my view on the meta. Disclaimer: there might be wack placements on this, just hear me out tho. Also I barely run stall so I decided to omit a lot of stall mons that are probably viable (muk, cyclizar, rachi, etc)

Enjoy the rambling
sv ou personal vr.png

S (Best mons, order doesn't really matter. These mons will ALWAYS be good in any game)

:samurott-hisui: My top 1 for gen 9 keeps changing, but rn I think h-samu is the best mon. This might be a wild take but h-samu can fit on every playstyle barring stall. I think hazardstack (from HO to BO) is the best way to play in gen 9, and samu is by far the best spiker imo. The reason I feel this way is because having spikes on your team allows you to cut corners in teambuilding and allows you to cram as much offense as possible. Spikes already gives you an edge against stall so you don't need to waste a teamslot running a dedicated stallbreaker, though if you do run a stallbreaker w/ samu the stall MU is pretty much unlosable. You also don't need to run hazard control with samu since your gameplan is usually to outoffense them with your own hazards; this allows you to forgo tusk and run the better ground lando-t, or on BO you can run spikesless gliscor.

Scarf, AV, SD, boots, banded, are also sets. Within these ideas samu also has incredible set variety, having two choices of STAB priority (which also allows you to spinblock if you're sash vs rocky helmet), utility in encore, knock, or taunt, and also samuH will always check gholdengo or force it to tera, which is very very valuable. The only "downside" of this mon is that you're forced to run a ghost with it, but I don't think ghold is even mandatory if you run taunt hsamu, so you have flexibility on which ghost you choose + tera ghost is so easy to fit since it doubles up as a zama lure. HSamu synergises amazingly well with physical and special attackers, too. Spikes is great into physdef mons (zama, tusk) and the best spdef mon (tinglu) and also samu's dark typing lends itself to pair up with other dark-types like gambit. I'm sure everyone reading this has lost to CTC's darkspam team at one point, and sash samu facilitates that team especialy well, since it allows you to run anti-offense mons like moth and lando to pair alongside it.

In most games hsamu will usually trade, losing the 1v1 in exchange for spikes. This seems bad on paper but spikes is just... that good. Even tusk's hold on the removal meta doesn't mean shit for this mon since chipping down tusk for a gambit endgame is usually your gameplan anyways. Anyways this might be the most controversial take, I know I'm in the minority here but lmk if you also think hsamu is top 1 or top 2 or something.

:kingambit: I could also see gambit as no.1 since it condenses defensive utility with priority, but this mon realistically is only seen on offense to HO. You can kinda fit this on BO and bulkier but it's not really optimal. If there's a kingambit there's a way.

:landorus-therian: coincides with my stance of spikes being the best since lando can run helmet without taking a billion everytime it comes in on spikes. Best rocker, best ground, has u-turn and intim support.

:darkrai: This mon is broken. I like darkrai over kyurem as a special progressmaker since it isn't weak to rocks and so needs less team support; you can forgo cinderace or tusk and run your own hazards instead which is imo a better gameplan than corv defogging rocks for kyurem (more on that later). Also there's a really funny darkrai set that I've been using https://pokepast.es/39b0ac205b6795a2 this set is fucking broken. Knock darkrai in general is very brainless, ebelt is amazing, NP is amazing, boots is amazing, specs is amazing (blizzard with gking is funny), scarf is mid but we don't talk about that. Ting-lu usage is insane rn but this mon is almost always paired with spikes. As i said earlier, spikes is amazing and it allows you to cheese through lu, bliss, etc. Rest lu struggles vs knock ice beam variants because of bad dreams.

S- (Noticeably worse than S but still the best mons in the tier. Amazing into most MUs.)

:slowking-galar: BO demon, you need to justify not running this mon since it consolidates way too much in 1 slot; that being a tspike absorber, salt cure switch in, and progressmaker w/ future sight or psynoise. AV is amazing too. Kinda mid into HO or darkspam stuff.

:gholdengo: I wanted to place this higher but truthfully this mon mostly exists for the ability and to ruin stall's day. Physdef isn't the best physical wall (it can be kinda passive), scarfer isn't an amazing scarfer (not fast enough), and breaker sets like metal coat/specs aren't amazing either (not bulky enough). However, I couldn't place this lower seeing as it's one of the best spinblockers in the tier and mandatory if your rocker loses to corv.

:gliscor: Best balance mon imo, also best BO mon. Best stall mon i guess but Idk shit abt stall. 4MSS is a myth on this mon since whatever set you choose you have a dedicated gameplan. SD plans to be broken and outlast everything (ban this pls), spikes plans to get up layers and probably trade into something, kinda like hsamu but on slower builds. I don't like how hazard sets are weak to taunt unlike hsamu and how this mon needs specific support (kyurem wall and things to deal w oger) but this mon is fantastic regardless.

:raging bolt: Amazing priority and set variety. Timid bolt feels like god, you can trade down w stuff if you use this mon early game or kinda easily clean lategame with tera, or if they sac grounds. I love how this mon forces you to keep a ground alive, this allows you to make progress really easily with draco predicts or volt switch. Pairs amazingly w spikes since it's checked by ting-lu, also pairs w physical attackers who overwhelm lando/tusk. Checks a chipped gambit, great into HO too. Only downside is hazard weakness if you can't fit boots, and that because it's kinda slow bolt tends to be traded down in some games without doing substantial progress.
A+ (As good as S-tier mons if they have a good MU, otherwise, can be pretty mid)

:kyurem: Another broken mon, kyurem has 0 long term defensive counterplay. I think mixed is kinda mid (it cteams fat and that's it) but specs, dd and subtect are all amazing in their own ways. Everyone knows this mon's strengths, but I didn't put it in S because it's genuinely pretty bad into HO and also kyurem teams are very formulaic in their team support. Cinderace, tusk, and/or corv are mandatory and while they're amazing mons (except corv, which I will shit talk later) this means that teams that don't struggle into kyurem can usually beat the kyurem team down easily. Blim balance, one of the best gen 9 teams ever, is pretty easy to beat with HO because kyurem teams just don't have enough slots for faster teams. Yes, you can omit to run rocks but this still isn't enough, imo.

:dragonite: Wow powercreep is crazy, can't believe they made a DD mon with the most consistent priority in the game, every move in the game, and walls everything at least once with multiscale. Amazing on offense, also surprisingly great on balance since it checks woger and balance struggles to fit priority mons with longevity. Struggles if you run into corv/dozo/clef stuff, but otherwise will always be useful.

:ogerpon-wellspring: Similar to kyurem this mon needs team support. I think a tspike absorber + removal is almost mandatory for this mon, which is easy to fit, but it tends to make woger teams weak to stuff like moon or dnite. Also has longevity issues, and in practice you won't be breaking as much as you'd like since you need to spend turns to spin off their hazards. When this mon has a good MU, it's genuinely amazing tho.

:great tusk: spinning is overrated, there are other ways around hazards that doesn't require you to spend a turn (harder if they have a ghost), potentially allowing your tusk to be chipped for one of their guys to sweep. Also BU spin tusk is kinda overrated on HO, fuck spinning, I'm just trying to get kills. With that being said, tusk has very funny stats, set variety, and spin is still a great tool that differentiates it from other grounds. Helmet is a decent progressmaker since it punishes opposing tusk, but I also hate how weak tusk is to spikes without boots.

:ting-lu: balance staple. Only reason it isn't higher is because idt balance is the best playstyle, but it's still great.

:dragapult: This mon has everything. Ghost + natural bulk allow it to check mons like zama or tusk even. Spreads status or you can run specs/CB and force defensive play. Pairs well with spikes.

:zamazenta: A lot of people put zama as no.1 but I genuinely think that's a bad take. Don't get me wrong, this mon is broken but it's one of those gen 9 mons that either win on preview or do jack shit. Moltres, zap, helm lando, gking, ghold, pult, pecha are everywhere, and this mon is absolutely useless into balance/stall. People say this mon blanket checks physical attackers but imo lando does that job better since it has progressmaking tools in rocks and u-turn. Also can we stop pretending that roar zama is a good set? However, tera dark crunch (with restochesto or sub) is an amazing set when you run into a good MU (which isn't that hard). Zama has so many upsides but even more polarizing downsides to make it an S-tier mon imo.

:cinderace: Deceivingly bulky, and switches into specs kyurem or fairies once, which is enough since you only need 1 turn to switch hazards. Not that flashy but naturally synergises with other top tiers which is why I put it here.

A (Less consistent than A+, but can run into amazing MUs frequently)

:primarina: AV Prim has the unkillable aspects of ting-lu whilst having the progressmaking attributes of lando/gking. However, it lacks longevity so this mon is only seen on offensive teams. It's usually the best at what it does, competing with glowking but being harder to switch into and having better MUs into pult or knock.

:pecharunt: I think this mon is fantastic, it has great synergy with top tiers like gambit since it is one of the best zama checks. Other than that, it's a worse glowking but that isn't an insult since glowking is amazing, and pecharunt comes with spinblocking. Yes, you lose to tusk 1v1 but you can spinblock + get chip on tusk for your gambit to win later. Parting shot is great unless you run into ghold. Speaking of ghold, pecharunt differentiates itself by being so godamn bulky (you can check woger with this) and also absorbing tspike is huge.

:clefable: Probably higher than what most people would place, and this is also because of how much I value hstack. Clef is kinda hard to fit but a team that can fit clef will fare really well into hstack. Ghold isn't an issue, just run ting-lu alongside clef. Also, CM unaware is an amazing set at cleaning vs HO, since it's ambigious whether or not clef's magic guard or unaware. I also like rocks twave to get rocks up vs corv without needing a ghold and to para woger.

:iron moth: HO staple, I hate how this mon is weak to rocks and relies on fiery dance. Bad offensively into fat but also crucial into fat because HO can struggle vs tspike pex, which this mon absorbs. Aside from the weaknesses this mon is great speedcontrol and has good set variety. My fave is tera fairy morning sun, this set rocks against HO that try to revenge w/ sucker/tclap.

:walking wake: Sun is absurd. Each individual mon on sun has set variety, and wake, despite being the most 1-dimensional sun mon, also has set variety in specs, AV, mystic water sub, scarf, boots knock. Realistically AV and specs are the most common but you can run anything. Can't place it higher because sun's bad MUs are really bad, and no matter what you run on sun you'll lose to something.

:ninetales: I've seen a case or torkoal>ninetales for its offensive sets, but an underrated ninetales set I really like is NP. Tera grass solarbeam lures waters and tera water glowking, and most of the time you won't sweep but you'll force them to play defensively which invites your real sun mons in. Utility ninetales is better than NP but I disagree w/ the take that torkoal is better.

:torkoal: With that being said, torkoal is still great since it has rocks. Spin is overrated on this mon tho, especially if they have a pult. I'd rather run ninetales + hatt and go rocksless, sun breakers are so strong you don't need rocks. I can't lie, I don't use sun often so take these placements with a grain of salt.

A- (OU staples, but they have certain flaws that limit them from being higher)

:glimmora: Glimm's amazing in a vacuum but I think other leads + moth is a better structure for HO.

:roaring moon: This mon chips their physical wall for gambit to win. Very one-dimensional so prone to running into wack HO cteams like lokix. Bulky roost is the best set but you get walled by tusk or gambit. I also think darkrai is a better knock off mon since it can come in several times per game.

:iron valiant: 4MSS, cba to write a paragraph for this since this is where most people put val

:moltres: Better corv since it isn't passive and also beats zama. You'll run teammates to deal with edge zama, that set is pretty easy to deal with. This would be the premiere physical wall if it weren't so weak to knock, but if you get knocked you have a chance to spread burn which facilitates your team in other ways.

:serperior: Lol, I might be a little biased but I genuinely think serp is amazing. The best set which people are allergic to running for some reason is terablast ghost. This set is less MU-fishy since ghost is great neutral coverage, and very importantly it is a zama lure. What this means is that serp pairs fantastically with physical attackers that appreciate zama dead, or special attackers that appreciate ghold/glowking dead. Serp is a great wallbreaker and another characteristic I love about this mon is that you can get away with not running a ground immune since serp resists ground and outspeeds grounds like tusk without losing much since you gain residual lefties. Woger does this to some extent but serp is way better at switching into stuff than woger. Speaking of which, this is like the only mon that switches into woger and outspeeds + beats it, though U-turn is annoying admittedly. Serp is great on and against webs (which is rising in popularity) especially with tera ghost blocking spin. Glare is a top 10 move, you can cheese games with it. Endure custap is also great on HO as an anti-HO measure. One of serp's biggest weaknesses is how it can only be fit on very specific teams and also leaf storm 90 accuracy can go fuck itself. Contrary :bellipog: :bellipog::bellipog: to popular belief, this mon isn't that much of a tera hog since offense struggles to switch into boosted leaf storms unless they have glowking, in which tera to beat the glowking is usually worth it for your teammates.

:garganacl: Might be a little high since ting-lu balances are usually better, but what I like about garg is how it can cheese through bad MUs with salt cure and tera. Ting-lu can be a bit passive at times so garg is a more aggressive wall on balance, especially with curse being really good. It's only a tera hog vs offense (and vs offense you really need to tera this) so it can be kinda inconsistent sometimes since you're giving up a potential surprise tera. Also using garg means you need to run a bolt check so I don't like how bolt weak garg teams can be.

:meowscarada: Another mon that I rate highly is meow, first of all I think that scarf is the only good meow set, other sets are outclassed by weav or darkrai. With that being said, this mon is the fastest viable scarfer (scarfrai is bad) because of STAB U-turn. Basically if you have a scarf meow you will never outright lose to HO mons, meaning you free up teamslots to deal with slower playstyles. Scarf meow + slow pivot + strong breaker (e.g. specs prim is cool) is a great core that handles both fat and offense. Plus, trick is great utility that meow also offers. I also love how this mon never needs to tera to function and how it forces tera from the opponent if they don't wanna die to meow.

:iron treads: Mid mon that's carried by ground typing and raging bolt's existence. Basically a worse tusk that you put on your teams weak to bolt. AV or lefties on BO is alright.
B+ (OU staples with large flaws)

:dondozo: Dozo balances are good, but usually on these teams dozo is ran purely because there is no other option. It's tasked to deal with too much imo to rank it higher.

:latios: People love this mon and for good reason, has the stallbreaking potential of ghold but you're faster than stuff like kyurem and you are immune to spikes. Unfortunately, on latios balances it goes all in on lati so bad MUs can be rough, while latios offenses hate how tera-reliant latios is.

:deoxys-speed: Outclassed as a hazard setter, offensive deo is its best set. I like latios more because of spikes immunity which is most apparent in slower games where sometimes deo-s can be too prediction-reliant. When you get your plays right it's more threatening than latios (especally NP deo-s) but I find latios to be more consistent.

:skarmory: Goat spiker since it beats tusk. Frees up gliscor's slot so you can run SD gliscor.

:scizor: great mon, CB is good, SD and its variants are good. I like quick attack tera normal to lure moth/ace. Also good enabler for physical offenses. This mon is kinda powercrept tho, too frail or weak depending on the set. Also I'm convinced defog scizor is garbage.

:weavile: Very reliable mon, will never be bad imo. Checks moon too which is usually hard for balance. Also amazing into hstack and webs. It is kinda lacking in power unless you run axel which is kinda bad.

:alomomola: Woger is this mon's biggest flaw, but also I'm not a fan of structures which rely on mola wish support since they can feel very passive. AV is weak to hazards and knock, and also means you're not running wish. Still, this guy is pretty reliable.

:hoopa-unbound: This is like offense's version of ting-lu, and comes with knock and stallbreaking. A lot of great qualites, but this mon lacks longevity, is slow, and kinda prediction reliant if you're not facing stall.

:tinkaton: there was a lot of hype for this mon a while back and I still think this mon is great, mostly for checking darkrai/specs kyu. It's like the spdef version of lando but has issues because of how passive it is, lacking a pivot move.

:hydrapple: I never use this mon but this always smokes me, NP is really good and AV is decent. Too slow and also prediction reliant if they have a fairy.

:ursaluna: flame orb ursa is garbage. Spdef has potential, haven't used it and this placement depends on if gliscor gets banned. If Gliscor goes, this will be a new balance/semistall staple. It's like ting-lu but hard to switch-in to. I'll test with this at some point but this has potential.

B (Great but on some teams)

:manaphy: I think mana HO has potential, not talking about screens or webs but just hstack with mana slapped on it. It's shit into HO but into BO and balance it is worth like 3 mons.

:toxapex: great into HO but weak to steels. Also reliable vs hstack coz of regen. One of the best tspike setters, but too passive.

:enamorus: This is very low but I'm not a fan of enam. Scarf is its best set, ebelt is also good, but I feel like its rocks weakness sets it back a lot. I think teams with val/prim (especially boots val teams) are better. Hwish is situational since you're only running that on scarf which makes using it feel very clunky. Also it's a fake ground immune since tusk just icespinners it into gambit sucker range. This mon also has like 0 utility options, taunt sucks on this.

:slither wing: outside of sun this mon sucks, it's a worse lando/tusk but with priority, but also who cares because unlike lokix this priority can be tera'd out of. However, on sun this mon is amazing. Not sure how to rank this since it should only be ran on sun but slither wing is just another one of a billion options sun can run.

:greninja: Very scary mon, and even if you don't sweep you either force tera or get valuable chip. I do think this mon can thud into stuff like prim/bolt (mons that are commonly seen together too), and tera poison sludge wave is kinda bad imo. On HO this is less of a problem since you want to weaken their checks anyways, and this mon can autowin if it gets going but it's a little inconsistent.

:maushold: single best removal in the game, pairs up well with knock off to remove helmet or other physical mons. Amazing on screens, but screens isn't that good.

:hatterene: I've stated several times how removal is overrated, hatt is a very bad mon with the 1 amazing trait of magic bounce. Sure you can run AV, custap or whatever funny moves you run on this but it's just too slow and too easy to switch into. However, magic bounce is irreplaceable so this mon automatically ranks high. Also sun staple.

:iron crown: you have to justify running this over glowking. Specs is mid, too inconsistent. It is amazing into kyurem tho.

:latias: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/1968-elo-latias-is-zamas-best-friend.3754234/#post-10323754

:araquanid: I was a hater but this mon grew on me. It conveniently beats a lot of mons that webs struggle with, such as moth, ace, weav. Webs is great in this gen because booster is everywhere, great anti-HO and you can naturally run anti-stall with ghold.

B- (Viable)
:corviknight: imo corv is carried by kyurem and with kyurem gone I'd rank this a lot lower. Anyways I think corv is outclassed by skarm and moltres. Moltres is the better phys wall since it's not passive and even comes with u-turn that corv has. Meanwhile, skarm gets spikes so if you pair it with gliscor (a common partner for skarm/corv) you can run SD scor. Corv is really bad on BO, as a pivot you have better options in moltres, glowking, pecharunt, uturn gliscor. Yes, corv beats different things and is way better into knock off, but corv isn't actually good into hstack teams since it's too easy to wear down (it's tasked with checking stuff and defogging too) so in the long run, hstack teams beat corv easily. I haven't even mentioned gholdengo because I think this mon would still be mid if ghold was banned. Stacking ghold weaknesses on a presumably slow team feels like shooting yourself in the foot. If kyurem was gone I'd put this in like C+ or something, corv is only here because it's good with kyurem.

:okidogi: can be used on several playstyles, I'm a fan of weakness policy on HO teams to lure grounds. Knock ice punch is great into fat. Tspike absorbers are very important for HO because of how easy it is for glimm to set them up, and how weak you are to pex if you don't have them.

:reuniclus: another hot take, I have been experimenting with reun a bit lately. The set I'm talking about is TR, and you have a little set variety with the choice of LO or sash, + I can see recover being used over shadow ball for fat. You TR with reun and break with psychic noise, and if they kill you, you get in gambit under TR, all of a sudden +2 gambit beats stuff like tusk and zama. This is amazing synergy and I think reun should be used more, very good anti-HO tech. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2242524039-pocfjrovxnp1sf8m50d70lr3046zyo2pw?p2

:lokix: this guy has so many great qualities but I am just not a fan of CB first impression, and without CB your moves feel weak. Lokix teams can feel very prediction-reliant.

:moltres-galar: I haven't used this a lot but I lost to this a lot. Idk where to put this.

:ribombee: worse than araq but good in its own ways. QD is underrated, you setup on their hatt and beat it down. Also tera psychic psynoise QD can clean a chipped stall team which is extremely funny.

:heatran: I think moltres is the better fire and condenses way more than tran. Tran facilitates special offense pretty well with taunt, but this mon is kinda inconsistent especially with magma storm accuracy.

:mimikyu: not a meme pick, mimikyu is great. You need spikes and rocks with this but this mon is a spinblocker that beats tusk and sets up too. Disguise allows you to trade at worst and win at most. It's still weak as dicks without tera ghost, but this mon is actually really good this gen. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2184149413-aec7yzq3b4icya9ur6fr0eh28nmbawypw

:zapdos: would be way higher with kyu gone. This mon already struggles vs bolt so with kyurem in the picture your zap team gets to choose whether to lose to kyurem or bolt. Light screen zap is goated.

:blissey: :chansey: not informed enough to rank these, they feel like B- tiers tho

:sandy shocks: hazard setter for people trying to use a non-OU mon without using garbage. It's ight, kinda unreliable at setting up more than a hazard so it's kinda outclassed imo.

:keldeo: fake gambit check, too weak and frail and slow. Great typing and has priority + pivot but not a fan.

:ogerpon: maybe the biggest tera hog of all time. This mon without tera is really mid, just a worse wogerpon. Boots oger teams are outdated and weak to a lot of stuff, like kyurem. Also I am not running a mon that will have to tera and build my team around it just for it to get fucked over a 30% moltres/zap chance. CB with rilla is cool, but outclassed by just running CB rilla, since you stack weaknesses and rilla without CB sucks.

:enamorus-therian: ngl my teams all lose to this mon, this is probably an unmon but it's really bulky with draining kiss. It's worth it to run removal for this mon since it's more of a wincon than regular enam.

:slowbro: I haven't used this much but it pleasantly surprised me whenever I used it. ID tera fight bpress on balance is a weird mix between pex, dozo, skarm and can deal with so many physical mons (gambit, oger, etc). I think AV bro on BO also has potential as an alternative to AV glowking since it deals with grounds better and can lure gambit with tera fight bpress. I will make more slowbro teams eventually, I think it has potential.

:pincurchin: eterrain is also surprisingly good. It's still HO, and also not the best HO style, so it's inherently flawed. I find eterrain teams very weak to roaring moon, especially tera ground. If you don't run into bad MUs this feels like a legit playstyle. It's HO but slightly worse, so it's aight.

:quagsire: Idk, but seems good with hazards, toxic, recover. A bit frail.

:hawlucha: too weak without an SD and it's weirdly hard to setup since you can run into encore mindgames. I really like how this mon forces tera tho.

:tornadus-therian: kinda passive and kinda frail, honestly not that good. NP torn is a worse SD gliscor. AV torn is like the 5th best AV mon in the tier. Boots taunt is a fat cteam and bad into fast stuff.

:rotom-wash: a much worse raging bolt with a good upside of ground immunity. Great in practice, just find it hard to justify over bolt.

:blaziken: 6-0s in theory, kills itself in practice. This mon wants like 6 different tera types and can only run 1.

:ninetales-alola: Not a fan of screens since it's hard to fit hazards on screens, and I think hazards HO is way better. Like pincurchin, not bad in theory, but just worse than mainstream options.

:rillaboom: this mon kinda sucks. Like oger grass, I am not running this as my progressmaker when it gets burnt so easily if you click the wrong move. Sure you knock their molt which is amazing, but other progressmakers are way more consistent imo. Rilla teams can feel realy clunky with what you want to fit (you'll need something for iron moth, dragons, etc) so they usually end up being some slower BO which can't capitalize on a knocked moltres as much. Also you need need something to check raging bolt over a long game, since your own grassy terrain makes their raging bolt way harder to kill. Fat also has measures against CB wood hammer with protect gliscor + corv/skarm. Grassy glide is amazing, but kind of its only great trait.

:oricorio-pom-pom: HO cheese mon that's better than you think. Requires a lot of team support, being screens + removal, but sub lefties QD with tera ground can just 6-0 non-tinglu teams. I have replays but cba to find them, but trust me this mon is viable.

:garchomp: helm chomp is good with mola, chomp hates spikes but its gameplan is to set its own dual hazards or phaze with dtail to outoffense hstack. Cool gameplan, but not that good imo. SD chomp is mid.

:diancie: this is actually a great pick on webs, it's like spatk val but with rocks so you don't have to run tusk/lando etc. Rocks is really hard to fit on webs, and although it doesn't need it, webs with rocks is better than without imo. Shoutouts whoever made this popular, cool asf mon.

:magnezone: I recently made a rilla zone team with decent success in 1900s, but it was still really MU-fishy. Zone traps steel birds that kyurem is paired with, and also ID press traps gambit. https://pokepast.es/ec947c1d2e9cab58

:bellibolt: Part of me wants to put this over rotom wash, but ngl I have not used this. It's hard to switch into and you don't lose much if you mispredict since bellibolt is pretty bulky.
C (outclassed)

:weezing-galar: very inferior option, I am not a fan of corv but this mon is outclassed by corv. Just run tusk + glowking instead of this.

:talonflame: stall mon

:thundurus-therian: all of its sets are mid. Specs is tera reliant for a mon that offers pretty much only breaking, I actually think agility LO on HO teams with removal is alright. You don't need NP, just thundy's natural offenses and coverage (w/ terablast ice).

:clodsire: ting-lu is way better, and idt stall even runs this much anymore. Water absorb is ass.

:jolteon: HO cheese mon that fully counters rbolt with tera fairy. Very fast and can clean sometimes, and pairs decently with raging bolt. This mon is obviously bad tho, shit stats.

:volcanion: I know a lot of people glaze this mon but imo it's hard to justify over woger cores. Yeah, volcanion works and is decent but imo I'd rather run woger + a fire type.

:pelipper: rain is garbage this gen, only pops up every once in a blue moon when all the water resists are asleep. Rain is only good into HO and there are way better anti-HO measures than running shit rain.

:barraskewda: rain

:basculegion: rain but cool

:ceruledge: slow, needs so much team support, doesn't spinblock well at all. This mon is S+ tier in the 1700s.

:iron boulder: what a sad mon

:fezandipiti: passive. Parting shot pecharunt is better since the stat drops allow a teammate in easier.

:arcanine-hisui: Cool mon but you need CB for power, boots for hazards.

:comfey: amazing into darkspam, shit into everything else. Has EV issues where you're either too weak or frail.

:charizard: honestly could see this going up, but too lazy to optimize this. Probably shit.

:ogerpon-cornerstone: sturdy is cute but you need hazard removal and the teams that fit removal really do not need ogerpon's sturdy. There are better partners to removal mons. This mon wishes it could be on HO but removal on HO is limited.
D (bad)

:tyranitar: congrats, you spent 2 slots just to temporarily be able to maybe revenge kill HO if they don't tera out of drill EQ. Also now you're 6-0d by woger, chilly glowking too.

:excadrill: powercreep did my man dirty

:umbreon: Like a worse ting-lu with toxic, wish, and better into some phys attackers with foul play. Big downside is how this is a dark that loses to ghold.

:skeledirge: the mon that hogs tera to cosplay unaware clef when unaware clef exists. Also arguably more passive than unaware clef since that has CM which forces them to play more active. Also a fake spinblocker. Weak asf to knock, outclassed as a fire by moltres and as a ghost by pecharunt.

:iron hands: this guy exists
 
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We are doing a slate now and I submitted roughly the following
S

Gambit
Zama
Tusk

A+

Pult
Glisc
Ting Lu
Wellspring
Kyu
Ghold
Bolt
Moth
Nite
Samu-H
Darkrai

A

GKing
Valiant
Molt
LandoT
Garg
Moon
Cind
Deo-S

A-

Glimm
Pecha
Mola
Lokix
Prima
Tinka
Ninetales-A
Ursa
Rilla

B+

Zap
Corv
Dozo
Weav
Sinistcha
Treads
Hatt
Enam
Hydrapple
Sciz
Latios
Mana
Hoopa-U
Araq

B

Ribombee
Weez-G
Latias
Clef
Ninetales
Wak
Ogerpon
Torn-T
Volcanion
Serp
Clod
Skarm
Rotom-W

B-

Okidogi
Meow
Bliss
Cornerstone
Pex
Slither
Boulder
Venu
Keld
Skele
Lucha
Gren
Tar

C+

Thund-T
Peli
Skewda
Blaziken
Ceru
Reuni
Hands
Kommo-O
Quag
Amoong
Tork
Drill
Tran

C

Comfey
Molt-G
Lili-H
Goordra-H
Poltea
Kingdra
Hydrei
Fez
Mamo
Enam-T

D

Chansy
Grimms
Talon
Arc-H
Indeedee
Pincurchin
Azu
Quaquaval
Maushold
Beli
Cyclizar
Wo-Chien
Mandi
Overqwil
Bascu
Hippo
Sandy Shock
Scream Tail
Iron Jug
Jirachi
Muk
Necro
no, this is not open for questions right now -- ask after the whole slate goes up and i will clarify whatever comes up then
 
Following in Finch's footsteps, here are my submissions for my first slate on the VR Council
S

Zamazenta

S-

Gholdengo
Ogerpon-Wellspring
Gliscor
Landorus-Therian

A+

Kingambit
Dragapult
Great Tusk
Darkrai
Dragonite
Iron Valiant
Kyurem
Raging Bolt
Ting Lu

A

Iron Moth
Samurott-Hisui
Slowking-Galar
Cinderace
Deoxys-Speed
Garganacl
Moltres
Roaring Moon
Tinkaton
Pecharunt

A-

Glimmora
Alomomola
Iron Crown
Iron Treads
Primarina
Zapdos
Ursaluna
Lokix

B+

Enamorus
Hatterene
Sinistcha
Weavile
Corviknight
Hydrapple
Ninetales
Ogerpon-Cornerstone
Rillaboom
Scizor
Walking Wake
Weezing-Galar
Araquanid

B

Ogerpon
Clefable
Clodsire
Dondozo
Skarmory
Torkoal
Greninja
Hawlucha
Heatran
Hoopa-Unbound
Latios
Manaphy
Ninetales-Alola
Ribombee
Slither Wing
Tornadus-Therian
Volcanion
Toxapex
Iron Hands
Keldeo
Latias

B-

Barraskewda
Excadrill
Meowscarada
Pelipper
Rotom-Wash
Serperior
Skeledirge
Blaziken
Blissey
Iron Boulder
Okidogi
Tyranitar
Amoonguss
Enamorus-Therian
Garchomp
Goodra-Hisui
Moltres-Galar
Hydreigon

C+

Lilligant-Hisui
Venusaur
Ceruledge
Cresselia
Kommo-o
Not ordered

Edit: I left out D and UR because I'm tired but I did vote on everything.
 
Last edited:
We are doing a slate now and I submitted roughly the following
S

Gambit
Zama
Tusk

A+

Pult
Glisc
Ting Lu
Wellspring
Kyu
Ghold
Bolt
Moth
Nite
Samu-H
Darkrai

A

GKing
Valiant
Molt
LandoT
Garg
Moon
Cind
Deo-S

A-

Glimm
Pecha
Mola
Lokix
Prima
Tinka
Ninetales-A
Ursa
Rilla

B+

Zap
Corv
Dozo
Weav
Sinistcha
Treads
Hatt
Enam
Hydrapple
Sciz
Latios
Mana
Hoopa-U
Araq

B

Ribombee
Weez-G
Latias
Clef
Ninetales
Wak
Ogerpon
Torn-T
Volcanion
Serp
Clod
Skarm
Rotom-W

B-

Okidogi
Meow
Bliss
Cornerstone
Pex
Slither
Boulder
Venu
Keld
Skele
Lucha
Gren
Tar

C+

Thund-T
Peli
Skewda
Blaziken
Ceru
Reuni
Hands
Kommo-O
Quag
Amoong
Tork
Drill
Tran

C

Comfey
Molt-G
Lili-H
Goordra-H
Poltea
Kingdra
Hydrei
Fez
Mamo
Enam-T

D

Chansy
Grimms
Talon
Arc-H
Indeedee
Pincurchin
Azu
Quaquaval
Maushold
Beli
Cyclizar
Wo-Chien
Mandi
Overqwil
Bascu
Hippo
Sandy Shock
Scream Tail
Iron Jug
Jirachi
Muk
Necro
no, this is not open for questions right now -- ask after the whole slate goes up and i will clarify whatever comes up then
Is Wak supposed to be Walking Wake? These short formed words are irritating to read through lol
 
We are doing a slate now and I submitted roughly the following
S

Gambit
Zama
Tusk

A+

Pult
Glisc
Ting Lu
Wellspring
Kyu
Ghold
Bolt
Moth
Nite
Samu-H
Darkrai

A

GKing
Valiant
Molt
LandoT
Garg
Moon
Cind
Deo-S

A-

Glimm
Pecha
Mola
Lokix
Prima
Tinka
Ninetales-A
Ursa
Rilla

B+

Zap
Corv
Dozo
Weav
Sinistcha
Treads
Hatt
Enam
Hydrapple
Sciz
Latios
Mana
Hoopa-U
Araq

B

Ribombee
Weez-G
Latias
Clef
Ninetales
Wak
Ogerpon
Torn-T
Volcanion
Serp
Clod
Skarm
Rotom-W

B-

Okidogi
Meow
Bliss
Cornerstone
Pex
Slither
Boulder
Venu
Keld
Skele
Lucha
Gren
Tar

C+

Thund-T
Peli
Skewda
Blaziken
Ceru
Reuni
Hands
Kommo-O
Quag
Amoong
Tork
Drill
Tran

C

Comfey
Molt-G
Lili-H
Goordra-H
Poltea
Kingdra
Hydrei
Fez
Mamo
Enam-T

D

Chansy
Grimms
Talon
Arc-H
Indeedee
Pincurchin
Azu
Quaquaval
Maushold
Beli
Cyclizar
Wo-Chien
Mandi
Overqwil
Bascu
Hippo
Sandy Shock
Scream Tail
Iron Jug
Jirachi
Muk
Necro
no, this is not open for questions right now -- ask after the whole slate goes up and i will clarify whatever comes up then
crown is nowhere to be found? (sorry about the no questions thing but i'm not sure if you forgot to give it a rank or genuinely just think its UR worthy)
 
Very bizarre to rank Slowking below A+ when it has high winrates in tournament play and continues to have high usage.
I think GKing is fringe A+/A, but anyone who builds nowadays knows it’s way harder to use GKing and fit it onto teams than it used to be. There is a reason why it went from being borderline top 5 to being 14th in SCL usage, for example. This is wayyyy more relevant than something like win rates, too, when you consider all of the other factors that go into winning games while usage is a clear indication of utility.

GKing took a hit when people began using more physical Valiant, DD Kyurem, Dark Zama, and Gliscor while we saw Boots Kyurem, Enamorus, and plenty of other things of soft checked fall off. It just fits onto less structures now.

So I mean you can say my ranking is bizarre all you want, but I think it’s far worse to go out of your way to shame it when I asked for nobody to comment until after the slate is final and your reasoning hardly ties to viability.

I’ll happily expand on everhtbing I ranked when the slate is final and others on the team have their time to rank — I liked sharing to give the community something to see on the meantime, but comments like this just make me regret even contributing in the first place.
Is Wak supposed to be Walking Wake? These short formed words are irritating to read through lol
Yea sorry. I typed these out on phone from a hotel room out of state since I’m on a business trip. And Crown is probably A-
 
We are doing a slate now and I submitted roughly the following
S

Gambit
Zama
Tusk

A+

Pult
Glisc
Ting Lu
Wellspring
Kyu
Ghold
Bolt
Moth
Nite
Samu-H
Darkrai

A

GKing
Valiant
Molt
LandoT
Garg
Moon
Cind
Deo-S

A-

Glimm
Pecha
Mola
Lokix
Prima
Tinka
Ninetales-A
Ursa
Rilla

B+

Zap
Corv
Dozo
Weav
Sinistcha
Treads
Hatt
Enam
Hydrapple
Sciz
Latios
Mana
Hoopa-U
Araq

B

Ribombee
Weez-G
Latias
Clef
Ninetales
Wak
Ogerpon
Torn-T
Volcanion
Serp
Clod
Skarm
Rotom-W

B-

Okidogi
Meow
Bliss
Cornerstone
Pex
Slither
Boulder
Venu
Keld
Skele
Lucha
Gren
Tar

C+

Thund-T
Peli
Skewda
Blaziken
Ceru
Reuni
Hands
Kommo-O
Quag
Amoong
Tork
Drill
Tran

C

Comfey
Molt-G
Lili-H
Goordra-H
Poltea
Kingdra
Hydrei
Fez
Mamo
Enam-T

D

Chansy
Grimms
Talon
Arc-H
Indeedee
Pincurchin
Azu
Quaquaval
Maushold
Beli
Cyclizar
Wo-Chien
Mandi
Overqwil
Bascu
Hippo
Sandy Shock
Scream Tail
Iron Jug
Jirachi
Muk
Necro
no, this is not open for questions right now -- ask after the whole slate goes up and i will clarify whatever comes up then
wtf is Alolan ninetales doing in A-?
 
I think GKing is fringe A+/A, but anyone who builds nowadays knows it’s way harder to use GKing and fit it onto teams than it used to be. There is a reason why it went from being borderline top 5 to being 14th in SCL usage, for example. This is wayyyy more relevant than something like win rates, too, when you consider all of the other factors that go into winning games while usage is a clear indication of utility.

GKing took a hit when people began using more physical Valiant, DD Kyurem, Dark Zama, and Gliscor while we saw Boots Kyurem, Enamorus, and plenty of other things of soft checked fall off. It just fits onto less structures now.

So I mean you can say my ranking is bizarre all you want, but I think it’s far worse to go out of your way to shame it when I asked for nobody to comment until after the slate is final and your reasoning hardly ties to viability.

I’ll happily expand on everhtbing I ranked when the slate is final and others on the team have their time to rank — I liked sharing to give the community something to see on the meantime, but comments like this just make me regret even contributing in the first place.

Yea sorry. I typed these out on phone from a hotel room out of state since I’m on a business trip. And Crown is probably A-
For clarity, I did not mean to shame anyone, nor reply to you directly (it was you and leng loi putting the mon at the same rank that made me actually post), but I do appreciate your thoughts on the matter.
 
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