Resource SV OU Indigo Disk Viability Ranking Thread

:heatran: B to A-
(+3 Subrankings)

It's never Heatrover. As it turns out, a Pokemon with excellent mixed bulk, a powerful click, useful abilities, and versatile utility options like Stealth Rock and Taunt is actually useful! Taunt + Magma Storm is especially potent, as it gives teams the ability to beat down and remove Slowking-Galar without a hitch with Heatran's typing and bulk to leverage it. It's an excellent stallbreaker with flexible applications; it's hard to keep it languishing in the B-ranks, so up it goes!
LETS GOOOO!
On a more serious note, this was well deserved, Heatran is amazing into anything not named rain.
Though I do wonder, why did Waterpon rise up in rank? Is it just because it is good against rain, or is it something else. And why did Kyurem drop a rank, to me it is still as amazing as ever. Finally, why did Iron Moth rise? Doesn't it do bad into rain?
Sorry for the multiple questions, I think that most of these changes are well deserved.
 

ausma

token smogon furry
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Top Artistis a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
OU Forum Leader
Why did Great Tusk rise?
god role compression, great win condition with bulk up and tera, and just generally hard to pass up on for the most part. the fact it can fit on most teams, glue them by existing, and check basically 90% of physical threats in the tier is rly important and near universally applicable

Though I do wonder, why did Waterpon rise up in rank? Is it just because it is good against rain, or is it something else. And why did Kyurem drop a rank, to me it is still as amazing as ever. Finally, why did Iron Moth rise? Doesn't it do bad into rain?
waterpon is a great tool into rain that takes advantage of it, limits barraskewda’s flip turn shenanigans, and also independently is just really potent as an offensive pivot and win condition

kyurem’s drop in rank is a reflection mostly of how the metagame has formed around it. still a stupid mon with many sets, but hazards are an omnipresent force in this metagame and most teams have adapted one or two ways to buffer it. mostly with galarian slowking

iron moth is just, good. it’s a generally good offensive swiss army knife. rks a lot, and its coverage profile lets it pick its checks and perform well in the mid/late game. rain limits it a bit sure, but it still has its coverage and sun is just as popular, and it thrives off of it.
 
I’m curious why Pecharunt still hasn’t been given a rank yet. I’m assuming it’s just a lower priority Pokémon so it’s gone under the radar?
 
Truly one of the most unexpected and bizarre rises in success seen in the tier thus far, it goes to show how powerful and boundless that a creative application of Tera has the potential to be.
Comfey shows the creativity of finding a Pokemon with Stored Power, a setup move and a Fairy move that allows it to hit Dark-Types.

Tera is truly providing us with plenty of creative sets.

Is the rise of Garganacl on this list somewhat to do with its good match-up into Rain? Well, obviously it's a Rock-Type, but Salt Cure does kinda mess up the Steel-Type and Water-Type spam. I don't see anything else that really changed for the Pokemon, so probably, but want to make sure my assumption is correct.
 

Mimikyu Stardust

nyeheheheh
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
UPL Champion
What does my boy Talonflame have to offer to the tier?

Thank you.
Stall, it never lost its niche, it just went under the radar in the first few week when iron boulder and gouging fire were thought to be top 5 mons in the tier. After the meta somewhat settled and iron boulder usage dropped, its back to being a solid choice on stall, even appearing in tournaments.

There was this 3000$ discord tour called GCLeague that just finished its finals between Empo and HikozaruGG where talonflame made an appearance as a defogger for empo's Pressure Stall/PP Stall team.

Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-746266
 

Shaymin Sky

We're locked out by Prof Klaus!
is a Community Contributor
explain how my goat Serperior (whos a snake) dropped when he becomes so powerful when looking at things (sub seed glare is op).
 
It's sad that when Archaludon goes, Pelipper and Barraskewda will go back down to their original placements or even lower because they're only that high because of Archaludon lol
 

658Greninja

is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Considering Tinkaton’s access to utility via Mold Breaker T-Wave + Encore + Rocks, its amazing typing, and Knock Off, I would’ve thought it would actually rise.

What was the reason for its drop?
 

658Greninja

is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Why did Great Tusk rise?
Ghold dropping in usage makes it easier for Tusk to spin, and with Bulk Up sets, it becomes a great check to Gambit, G-Fire, etc, on top of being a scary wincon. Using Tera Poison also lets you 1v1 Skarm, ID Zama, Valiant, Rillaboom, and even Gliscor.
 

viivian

OU's sweetheart
is a Tiering Contributor
It's sad that when Archaludon goes, Pelipper and Barraskewda will go back down to their original placements or even lower because they're only that high because of Archaludon lol
that has some truth to it but i highly doubt pelipper and barraskewda will be drop down to B- or lower like they did during DLC1. even in a post-archaludon metagame i find it hard to believe rain will become a niche playstyle, it just won't have a stranglehold on the meta w/ archaludon out of the picture

anyways i have a whole lot of questions regarding the VR update but i'll try to refrain from asking questions that have already been answered in the OP

Sorry for the delay all! Had some stuff come up irl. I want to get this out before the end of Archaludon's suspect. Here are the rises and drops, with a lot of cleanup for the lower tiers especially!
:landorus-therian: A- to A
:torkoal: A- to A
:hawlucha: B to B+
:quaquaval: D to C
:zarude: D to C
  • what's keeping landorus-T relevant this DLC despite stiff competition from gliscor as a ground/flying type utility pokemon? does it check certain threats that gliscor is too passive against?
  • sun continuing to trend upward in the midst of rain's dominance is very interesting to me, i assume it's because walking wake and raging bolt are very efficient at dismantling rain structures?
  • what makes hawlucha a B+ rank pokemon? it definitely appreciates the drop in gholdengo usage but what else has changed?
  • quaquaval rising is very strange to me, i didn't even notice it was ranked at first. on paper it's a good check to weavile and kingambit but what else does it have going for it?
  • i have absolutely no clue on this one and would like an explanation on why zarude rose or what role it fulfills

Drops
:gholdengo: S- to A+
:kyurem: S- to A+
:gouging-fire: A+ to A
:darkrai: A- to B+
:serperior: A- to B+
:zapdos: B to B-
:kingdra: B- to C+
  • why did gholdengo and kyurem both drop? kyurem in particular is strange to me given it matches very well into sun/rain and grassy terrain structures which seem to be on the rise, so what caused it (and gholdengo) to drop?
  • is gouging fire starting to fall off because of the prevalence of rain and landorus-T? are there any other major factors in it dropping to A rank?
  • what made darkrai drop to B+? is it too slow to keep up with all the faster threats running around?
  • is serperior really limited by archaludon that much? or is there another factor in its drop?
  • i don't have any questions in regards to dropping zapdos but fuck zapdos i'm glad it's falling off
  • what makes kingdra so much worse as a swift swimmer than barraskewda?

:breloom: C to D
:tinkaton: C to D
conversely, i'm not quite sure why these two are still ranked. breloom took a heavy hit from sleep getting banned and was hardly any good in OU even when it had spore. tinkaton matches well into weavile, meowscarada and hatterene (and non-setup darkrai) but we aren't particularly lacking in checks to those pokemon and it matches poorly into almost everything else in the metagame. i could be wrong but i'm genuinely confused on why these are still ranked

:comfey: UR to B-
(+3 Subrankings)

Truly one of the most unexpected and bizarre rises in success seen in the tier thus far, it goes to show how powerful and boundless that a creative application of Tera has the potential to be. On a Pokemon like Comfey with priority offensive healing, Stored Power, and potentially even Tera Blast, it has the ability to get out of hand quite quickly, especially with a Grassy Seed to bolster its Defense alongside Calm Mind.
i don't have any criticism or questions about this i'm just really happy she's found a niche :D

:garganacl: B to A-
(+3 Subrankings)

Garganacl does Garganacl things, it's just gone under the radar a bit in the midst of the chaotic, highly powerful metagame. Covert Cloak is nowhere to be seen, and Substitute is a bit more fickle in usage, so Garganacl is trending positively right now.

:heatran: B to A-
(+3 Subrankings)

It's never Heatrover. As it turns out, a Pokemon with excellent mixed bulk, a powerful click, useful abilities, and versatile utility options like Stealth Rock and Taunt is actually useful! Taunt + Magma Storm is especially potent, as it gives teams the ability to beat down and remove Slowking-Galar without a hitch with Heatran's typing and bulk to leverage it. It's an excellent stallbreaker with flexible applications; it's hard to keep it languishing in the B-ranks, so up it goes!
is the prevalence of rain (and, by proxy, archaludon) in this metagame preventing these two from going any higher up the VR? i think heatran in particular could see a rise to A, it's a really solid check to weavile, gholdengo, volcarona and discourages the likes of gouging fire and kyurem from carelessly spamming their STAB moves, and as you mentioned it rips apart bulkier playstyles with ease. not a nomination, just curious since i think the reasoning you listed has led me to believe it could go higher
 

Finchinator

-OUTL
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis the defending OU Circuit Championis a Two-Time Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
OU Leader
  • what's keeping landorus-T relevant this DLC despite stiff competition from gliscor as a ground/flying type utility pokemon? does it check certain threats that gliscor is too passive against?
Not really comparable for anything besides typing. RH Lando-T functions as an Intimidate pivot that punishes most physical attacks -- Kingambit, Gouging Fire, Iron Boulder, Zamazenta-H, etc. Gliscor is more for utility. Lando-T has seen a big uptick in usage on offensive teams.
  • sun continuing to trend upward in the midst of rain's dominance is very interesting to me, i assume it's because walking wake and raging bolt are very efficient at dismantling rain structures?
Sun is not held back by Rain. Some Sun teams do well vs Rain and some Rain teams do well vs Sun. A lot of the time it comes down to sequencing and execution.
  • what makes hawlucha a B+ rank pokemon? it definitely appreciates the drop in gholdengo usage but what else has changed?
Grassy Terrain teams seeing an uptick in usage, so it follows suit often enough.
  • quaquaval rising is very strange to me, i didn't even notice it was ranked at first. on paper it's a good check to weavile and kingambit but what else does it have going for it?
Rapid Spin, unique defensive typing, and Moxie/Aqua Step shenanigans. It is still mid, but slightly less mid.
  • i have absolutely no clue on this one and would like an explanation on why zarude rose or what role it fulfills
Unique enough with the ability to circumvent status, Knock Off items, resist Ghost, boost stats, etc. to be somewhat viable. Still quite low and limited.
  • why did gholdengo and kyurem both drop? kyurem in particular is strange to me given it matches very well into sun/rain and grassy terrain structures which seem to be on the rise, so what caused it (and gholdengo) to drop?
Harder to fit Kyurem; it is good, but the usage is clearly lower and the fit is clearly harder than initially thought. Gholdengo is at a low point right now; it's still good and reinventing itself with Hex variants, but it's not a top 3 Pokemon right now.
  • is gouging fire starting to fall off because of the prevalence of rain and landorus-T? are there any other major factors in it dropping to A rank?
Also faces stiff competition from others -- we see more Dragonite for Multiscale, we see a ton of Roaring Moon, and so on.
  • what made darkrai drop to B+? is it too slow to keep up with all the faster threats running around?
The last update was prior to the sleep ban.
  • is serperior really limited by archaludon that much? or is there another factor in its drop?
It was never that good. It is too reliant on tera and paralysis to be consistent. You only really see it using screens, hax teams, or on webs at a serious level.
  • what makes kingdra so much worse as a swift swimmer than barraskewda?
Not really comparable. Skewda is faster, physical end surrounded by other special attackers, has stronger flip turn, etc. -- Skewda was always much better.
 

Finchinator

-OUTL
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis the defending OU Circuit Championis a Two-Time Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
OU Leader
conversely, i'm not quite sure why these two are still ranked. breloom took a heavy hit from sleep getting banned and was hardly any good in OU even when it had spore. tinkaton matches well into weavile, meowscarada and hatterene (and non-setup darkrai) but we aren't particularly lacking in checks to those pokemon and it matches poorly into almost everything else in the metagame. i could be wrong but i'm genuinely confused on why these are still ranked
I find it seldom worthwhile to nitpick rankings in D (or even C honestly). This is especially the case when it is something like Breloom, which is still reacting to a recent ban pretty immediately. It is not worth discussing too much until all of the dust settles, in my opinion. I also disagree: we are lacking checks to Weavile and Meowscarada. We are also lacking Steel types in general.
is the prevalence of rain (and, by proxy, archaludon) in this metagame preventing these two from going any higher up the VR? i think heatran in particular could see a rise to A, it's a really solid check to weavile, gholdengo, volcarona and discourages the likes of gouging fire and kyurem from carelessly spamming their STAB moves, and as you mentioned it rips apart bulkier playstyles with ease. not a nomination, just curious since i think the reasoning you listed has led me to believe it could go higher
It is not that linear, but also Garganacl is surging up right now. Heatran was never a top tier Pokemon this generation, too.
Why did Iron Valiant not move up? I feel its clearly gotten better in the past month, as seen by its increased usage.
You can argue for A, but it is still very susceptible to hazards. The uptick in SD set this past week could lead to a rise next time around, but this is a fringe area between very good and great Pokemon that you see Iron Valiant types in. It also faces competition from Enamorus, Primarina, etc. right now, too.
 

Finchinator

-OUTL
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis the defending OU Circuit Championis a Two-Time Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
OU Leader
Considering Tinkaton’s access to utility via Mold Breaker T-Wave + Encore + Rocks, its amazing typing, and Knock Off, I would’ve thought it would actually rise.

What was the reason for its drop?
Funny how in the last post someone questioned why it was still ranked: it still only fits so many teams. We have to be careful in overestimating it as it lacks survivability and means you are less likely to fit a Kingambit or Gholdengo, too. Being deadweight into Landorus-T and Gliscor stings, too.
explain how my goat Serperior (whos a snake) dropped when he becomes so powerful when looking at things (sub seed glare is op).
you're mid bro :pip:
How did volcarona only rise a single tier? And was the rain enough to drop gouging fire?
It is still pretty highly ranked and it is a bit tera reliant, so it is not exactly one of the best handful of Pokemon -- more like second tier, which is still great.
 
Was there any particular reason why Glowking didn't rise to S-? I know nobody nominated it (iirc), but I feel like that mon's defensive utility has been holding this meta together as of lately and I know some folks think extremely highly of it as a top 5 mon.
 

Finchinator

-OUTL
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis the defending OU Circuit Championis a Two-Time Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
OU Leader
Was there any particular reason why Glowking didn't rise to S-? I know nobody nominated it (iirc), but I feel like that mon's defensive utility has been holding this meta together as of lately and I know some folks think extremely highly of it as a top 5 mon.
I don’t think it’s particularly close to S- right now. Offense is by far more common and its role as a weather stopper has been dwarfed considering Archaludon abuses it and we are seeing more physical attackers on Sun than ever. It is still good and compresses roles of toxic spike soaking, faith resist, pivot, future sight, etc. into one, but it’s definitely not top 5
 

serperiorr

formerly someidiot19
serp drop very unserious, A- was completely fine. subleech doesnt even need tera. "too reliant on paralysis" except you have so many opportunities to fish for full paras since ur subbing anyways to gain hp with leech :totodiLUL:


also i still think azu deserves one of the B subrankings, seriously can someone explain why this mon is so much lower than prim when its a sidegrade? (I nommed it to rise to B+ awhile back which admittedly is too high but still D is crazy imo)
 
:Slither Wing: May I ask why it is unranked? It currently has the most powerful option for priority other than at least 3 Fallen Kingambit, and it hits a lot of the top offensive threats for good damage. Meows, Boulder, Weav, Moon, Deoxys-S, Serp, Rilla, Darkrai and Ogerpon all need a Tera to survive, and sometimes that doesn't even save them for the ones that use offensive Teras that lack a bug resist. It can be a safe switchin to stuff like Meows going for a dark/grass/bug move and can even take non-banded triple axel decently well, but not after hazards. Same for Weavile. Slither Wing's best set is definitely a bulky priority set with Willo, Morning Sun, CC/U-Turn, First Impression, 76 attack, 8-12 speed, and the rest into HP and Defense, prioritizing defense to get more overall bulk against physical attackers. Boulder can't 2hko when unboosted (when lacking the niche zen headbutt, which doesn't KO), even with several layers of hazards (it needs 25% total chip to get a chance for a 2hko). It doesn't need to many speed EVs to outspeed Kingambit, who it can either CC or Willo if expecting a tera. It also can bait in Great Tusk to get a burn off, making it unable to beat a powerful attacker like Kingambit in the back. It hits Arch hard on the switch, who can't even OHKO a neutral Wing at neutral, making Wing a good last resort option.

Sun is also technically an option to use Wing on, but banded isn't really what you want. You get 1 use of a powerful priority move, then are just setup bait to literally anything. No, what we want is boots/LO offensive with tera fire flare blitz. Suddenly you become stall's worst nightmare, dealing way too much damage for stall to keep up with. Dozo gets 2hkoed by LO Proto CC without tera, Gliscor doesn't want to eat a Tera Fire Sun Boosted Proto Flare Blitz any day of the week, especially after the rockers. Everything else is way less bulky, other than a few niche stall options like Dirge or Pex who you can just U-Turn on or use EQ (dirge can't burn you). While the recoil might seem like a lot, Morning Sun heals a big chunk, 66% to be exact, in Sun, making it hard to take down. The only mons that hard wall Wing are Talonflame (it actually gets 2hkod by Sun Boosted Blitz) and Moltres, both of whom are completely helpless against a Walking Wake. I haven't yet come across any stall teams when using my Wing Sun team, but in theory it is good. Just not as good as the bulky priority set, so that's why I said sun is only technically an option.

Replays showing Bulky Wing on 1600s+ ladder:
[Gen 9] OU: slambacker vs. a-randombird ig - Replays - Pokémon Showdown! (pokemonshowdown.com) - Slither Wing was able to take out bulky Arch without fearing special attacks, force specs Kyurem out, and burn Tusk, allowing King to survive the KO from EQ after Tera. Then it was able to take out Iron Boulder at the end with a nice First Impression
[Gen 9] OU: DaTruPro075 vs. Mr. ROTH IRA - Replays - Pokémon Showdown! (pokemonshowdown.com) - Slither Wing was able to burn Skarm, allowing Kyurem to come in without fearing too much damage from bpress. It also forced Meowscarada out on several occasions, was able to cancel out Bolt's lefties recovery with a burn (it also should've come out on turn 16 in order to revenge kill instead of needlessly weaking boulder, that was a misplay on my part), cancel Ting-Lu's lefites recovery with a burn, and take out Ting-Lu, take out Great Tusk, take out Slowking-G, and proceed to hax my opponent at the end (my team would've been able to take on a burned Meows anyways).

Edit: Should've placed where I think is a good ranking, C to C+ is good. It isn't that threatening in the meta, but it still is not unranked material.
 
:Slither Wing: May I ask why it is unranked? It currently has the most powerful option for priority other than at least 3 Fallen Kingambit, and it hits a lot of the top offensive threats for good damage. Meows, Boulder, Weav, Moon, Deoxys-S, Serp, Rilla, Darkrai and Ogerpon all need a Tera to survive, and sometimes that doesn't even save them for the ones that use offensive Teras that lack a bug resist. It can be a safe switchin to stuff like Meows going for a dark/grass/bug move and can even take non-banded triple axel decently well, but not after hazards. Same for Weavile. Slither Wing's best set is definitely a bulky priority set with Willo, Morning Sun, CC/U-Turn, First Impression, 76 attack, 8-12 speed, and the rest into HP and Defense, prioritizing defense to get more overall bulk against physical attackers. Boulder can't 2hko when unboosted (when lacking the niche zen headbutt, which doesn't KO), even with several layers of hazards (it needs 25% total chip to get a chance for a 2hko). It doesn't need to many speed EVs to outspeed Kingambit, who it can either CC or Willo if expecting a tera. It also can bait in Great Tusk to get a burn off, making it unable to beat a powerful attacker like Kingambit in the back. It hits Arch hard on the switch, who can't even OHKO a neutral Wing at neutral, making Wing a good last resort option.

Sun is also technically an option to use Wing on, but banded isn't really what you want. You get 1 use of a powerful priority move, then are just setup bait to literally anything. No, what we want is boots/LO offensive with tera fire flare blitz. Suddenly you become stall's worst nightmare, dealing way too much damage for stall to keep up with. Dozo gets 2hkoed by LO Proto CC without tera, Gliscor doesn't want to eat a Tera Fire Sun Boosted Proto Flare Blitz any day of the week, especially after the rockers. Everything else is way less bulky, other than a few niche stall options like Dirge or Pex who you can just U-Turn on or use EQ (dirge can't burn you). While the recoil might seem like a lot, Morning Sun heals a big chunk, 66% to be exact, in Sun, making it hard to take down. The only mons that hard wall Wing are Talonflame (it actually gets 2hkod by Sun Boosted Blitz) and Moltres, both of whom are completely helpless against a Walking Wake. I haven't yet come across any stall teams when using my Wing Sun team, but in theory it is good. Just not as good as the bulky priority set, so that's why I said sun is only technically an option.

Replays showing Bulky Wing on 1600s+ ladder:
[Gen 9] OU: slambacker vs. a-randombird ig - Replays - Pokémon Showdown! (pokemonshowdown.com) - Slither Wing was able to take out bulky Arch without fearing special attacks, force specs Kyurem out, and burn Tusk, allowing King to survive the KO from EQ after Tera. Then it was able to take out Iron Boulder at the end with a nice First Impression
[Gen 9] OU: DaTruPro075 vs. Mr. ROTH IRA - Replays - Pokémon Showdown! (pokemonshowdown.com) - Slither Wing was able to burn Skarm, allowing Kyurem to come in without fearing too much damage from bpress. It also forced Meowscarada out on several occasions, was able to cancel out Bolt's lefties recovery with a burn (it also should've come out on turn 16 in order to revenge kill instead of needlessly weaking boulder, that was a misplay on my part), cancel Ting-Lu's lefites recovery with a burn, and take out Ting-Lu, take out Great Tusk, take out Slowking-G, and proceed to hax my opponent at the end (my team would've been able to take on a burned Meows anyways).
I agree with this guy. Like, it's fine to keep Breloom ranked despite the loss of Spore, but this moth is an objectively better and more versatile Mon than Breloom is. Keeping it unranked is nonsense.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 3, Guests: 12)

Top