alephgalactus
Banned deucer.
Skeledirge actually takes 0% from Extreme Speed because it’s a Ghost-type.Only gets 40% from Extreme Speed Tera Dragonite for example.
Skeledirge actually takes 0% from Extreme Speed because it’s a Ghost-type.Only gets 40% from Extreme Speed Tera Dragonite for example.
If you don't Tera then you'll get 60% from Dragonite Earthquake.Skeledirge actually takes 0% from Extreme Speed because it’s a Ghost-type.
Yeah it's a matter of time. I think the main consensus from a majority of the competitive community is that it's uncompetitive and IT IS a Baton Pass Substitute. With Cyclizar having Regenerator and Sitrus Berry on almost all sets, it doesn't take a lot of skill to pass a successful substitute (multiple times) on the right Pokémon that can't do anything to break the substitute.shed tail gotta go. it can't go on like this. it's sub bp essentially. the counterplay options are limiting. cyclizar literally gets regen and can keep resetting to pass while also being part of a regen core. i'm 100% done with this tier until shed tail is done. gotta go.
That’s the problem, it’s all a matter of time. We’ve got a double-digit number of bannable and suspectable things running around and the meta as it stands is becoming worse and not better, but bans just aren’t happening anywhere nearly as quickly as they should be. If something isn’t done soon, OU is going to start hemorrhaging players as more and more people refuse to play it until [insert broken thing] is banned.Yeah it's a matter of time.
As for the individual pokemon, that was just one of a few team building answers I suggested. A lot of the arguments lately seem involve focusing too much on what people think is OU right this second in this volatile meta instead of looking for out of the box solutions. A lot of that is still in flux.
Right. This is a personal pet peeve of mine but it really bugs me whenever the topic of a potentially broken pokemon comes up and remarks like this happen. The reason people aren't willing to plunder UU is because the highly volatile meta doesn't really leave much room for people to go running super specific pokemon that would be dead weight in other important match ups.The final thing I'll say is this: If Gholdengo is really that much of a problem to you that it is ban worthy, why aren't you willing to devote a team slot to something that counters it? If it's on like a quarter of everyone's teams and it's so problematic, constricting yourself from a pokemon because it's UU by usage and not OU seems a bit strange.
It isn't not liking Talonflame or any other lower tier pokemon. It's that they are difficult to fit without compromising other match ups, as they don't do anything noteworthy beyond that one match up (in this case Gholdengo). People are happy to experiment and try out new things, but in a metagame like this one not only is it not exactly easy to fit more unorthodox pokemon but it also is a strain on building to do so. All made worse by double ghost cores like Ape+Ghold which make spinning even harder, to say nothing of the futility of defog at that point.And if you don't like Talonflame, use something else. I'm pretty sure Rapid Spinners are under explored so far.
+6 252 Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Skeledirge: 160-190 (38.8 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKOIf you don't Tera then you'll get 60% from Dragonite Earthquake.
My calcs were on max spe.def. investment (and 0 def evs). I don't think defense Skeledirge is very useful.+6 252 Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Skeledirge: 160-190 (38.8 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Ghost Croc stays winning
What about mixed bulk spread?My calcs were on max spe.def. investment (and 0 def evs). I don't think defense Skeledirge is very useful.
This isn't really a defog set, but if you want a good anti-Gholdengo meme you could try a Power Trip set. It would probably catch a lot of people by surprise.lol, lmao even, anyone who has played 5 minutes into OU knows how bad Gholdengo shits on him, how he stayed in OU is a mistery, and to be honest, outside of the dengo matchup, corvi is still excellent due to his defensive utility, with that being said, i do propouse ONE meme answer
Corviknight @ Charcoal
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Tera Blast
- Roost
- Defog
- Brave Bird
I've tried it as an emergency secondary option on a Choice Band set over a coverage move. Sometimes it would work because people don't expect it. It was rarely actually clicked by me, but it was still nice to have on a team that needed a bit of extra hazard clear support.Does anybody run defog on Scizor? dont lie to me, I know nobody does, mainly because Scizor has better things to be doing, for example LO +2 Tera steel tecnician stab Bullet Punch, he also lost Scorching sands which would have been perfect for this, but at least has Night Slash
You aren't running special defense? You should straight up win verse Gholdengo if you have special defense investment.can spore him, and knock him off, but a smart player will know to just sack a mon to his antics and then blow his ass with a Make it rain, but if he predicts, then at least his job will be completed and thats better than some of the mons in the pool right now, his defensive typing also fucking sucks, overall, fun meme
In the Talonflame thread, several people thought Flame Body was better for the Defog set.the biggest meme of them all, I hate this meme, but Gale Wings defog + fire stab is good, is literally the third best deffoger
I would take the EVs and put them toward HP or speed, Breloom doesn’t have high HP to be utilizing defensive EVs with no HP EVs Introduced. So go with 252 Attack / 252 Speed or go with 252 HP / 252 Attack. Also Close Combat over Drain Punch.View attachment 470842
Thoughts on Breloom?
I don't think a single slot is equivalent to "plundering UU" but ok. I guess all I would say is to ask you two things: How bad is your Gholdengo hazard stacking match up and at what point does it become more detrimental not to build for it?Right. This is a personal pet peeve of mine but it really bugs me whenever the topic of a potentially broken pokemon comes up and remarks like this happen. The reason people aren't willing to plunder UU is because the highly volatile meta doesn't really leave much room for people to go running super specific pokemon that would be dead weight in other important match ups.
I've seen this brought up a few times now so I suppose we should address this. Is Annnihilape or Gholdengo more problematic? Or is it just that Rage Fist is problematic? To me, it's Rage Fist because you get punished for chip damage. There are not that many good natural normal types right now, either.All made worse by double ghost cores like Ape+Ghold which make spinning even harder, to say nothing of the futility of defog at that point.
Can confirm, Power Trip set is actually so good if you play your cards right. A lot of people come in to it expecting to be passive and pivot, but with some SpD investment and Power Trip you can hit some annoying ghost spammers on the switch in, or target some other freaks with Body Press. Not having Brave Bird does hurt it a bit though, and it kinda lends itself to setup bait once the cat is out of the bag, but it does its job well on my sun team.This isn't really a defog set, but if you want a good anti-Gholdengo meme you could try a Power Trip set. It would probably catch a lot of people by surprise.
If anything I'd look at hazards first.Gholdengo is a great mon and all, but why are we assuming that hazard spam will be solved once Gholdengo gets removed?
Gholdengo is functionally stopping one OU viable hazard remover that other Ghosts don't. The reason why hazard stacking is so strong now is because of the increased distribution of Spikes, reduced distribution of Defog and everyone being used to clicking Defog on Corviknight as a foolproof way to remove hazards.
Even if Gholdengo is removed, the amount of counterplay we have to hazard spam only increases by literally just one (Corviknight).
Much of the spinblocking antics that Gholdengo are just going to be replicated by Skeledirge, Annhilape, and even Tera Ghost Garganacl, albeit with the addition of Corviknight as an answer. Excuse the hyperbole, but is the argument for banning Gholdengo really just so that every team weak to hazard spam can just run Corviknight?
Giving my opponent one free turn to set up SR is one thing, but if I end up giving my opponent more turns to set-up multiple layers of Spikes, then functionally I gave them 3-4 free turns. In that case, it is deserved that I had to outplay the opponent with my hazard control to remove them, instead of just using Corviknight to bail me out. On teams weaker to hazard stacking, we also already have increased options in very good spinner that have very strong ways to punish the spinblockers on a good prediction, HDB to ignore hazard, and just a bunch of things that can punish the setters of Glimmora and Garchomp in general.
So honestly, why is Gholdengo the problem here?
I dunno, walling Dragonite in the current meta is pretty damn useful. (Yes, I count taking 46% as “walling” because you can Will-o-Wisp back and then Slack Off.)My calcs were on max spe.def. investment (and 0 def evs). I don't think defense Skeledirge is very useful.
The fact that we’re even discussing Night Slash Cryogonal as an option in any capacity ever means that something is deeply wrong.Hail related mon, has Night Slash, and good hp + special bulk, 105 speed
i'd like to add to this. as someone who has been trying to make stall work this gen, i don't find gholdengo to be a problem at all. beating it just comes down to the team builder, as it is extremely predictable when it comes in.I honestly have no problem with Gholdengo. I've been trying various teams with Talonflame, generally offensive sets that need Stealth Rocks to be clear, and I've had no trouble dealing with it. Even had a team with Corv as my Defog option. Corv gets hard countered by it, but the combination of U-Turn + a couple attackers that beat or threaten Gholdengo makes it not a problem. It's really not that hard to play around and I still don't see how it is ban worthy. People need to stop crying about it and learn to account for it in the team builder.
As for grimsnarl there is an easy counter:- Grimmsnarl and his Screens are everywhere, and for damn good reason, too. Like Shed Tail, Screens and Parting Shot are able to create situation where you really can't stop whatever stupid sweeper Grimmsnarl wants to subject you to, thus allowing to set up as it wishes and promptly win a game with little to no counterplay. I'll go into who I think the biggest offenders here are later, but what I will say is that Screens and Shed Tail are just a lethal combination. Dealing with one of them is already a pain in the ass, but both of them together is just absolutely stupid. Overall, I think that Shed Tail is way worse for the metagame, but if push came to shove, I wouldn't be opposed at all to banning Light Clay, or just Grimmsnale if we don't want any collat.