Agreed. Though, while a farfetched opinion, I believe dragapult will eventually be too much with two assumptions: (1) removal of bundle and (2) tera remaining unbanned.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
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The meta rn is like that to handle palafin and iron bundle, once they are gone they sill be better, that's kinda what I meant lol
I've been running heavy duty boots max atk adamant with 252 on hp, with first impression, sucker punch, u turn and axe kick. Investing in speed in this metagame is a waste, and if you survive an attack or two you get insane value out of it
So I want to bring something up that no one ever thought of bringing since gen 4, due to it not really mattering as to how you can handle the Pokemon: Since Iron Bundle is actually extremely hard to switch into unless you're Blissey, what about switching into the only Ice Type with a higher SpA AKA Glaceon? Because that is an entirely different scenario that should be worth exploring especially consideing that Glaceon now has access to Calm Mind and I'm not sure a lot of things would like switching into a +1 STAB Ice Beam
When the dolphin and iron bundle are gone, I believe balance teams will begin to shine more since hyper offense will tend to be weaker. Rain is losing 2 main candidates and sand is dead too. Sun spam teams might find a way to shine but I doubt those will be that big of a problem by what I've seen so far. I like to see that electric terrain and sun strategies were exactly like I thought, boosting your opponent too can bring a big disadvantage against your team so it isn't a reliable strategy and I believe we will see pokemon like clodsire and dondozo being better and nerfing shed tail even further, as running a spd dondoxo and def clod won't prove itself as useful as abusing their op stats, so don would run def and clod spd. This 2 mons actually work very well with eachother, y'all should give them a try
not with that attitude
I really think tera is the problem, not the brokens, yeah these mons are quite strong even on their own, but it feels like tera is what is pushing Bundle and especially palafin to become problematic, tera is what takes palafin from being a strong mon with shaky but reliable counterplay to a banworthy mon who's counterplay only works because their opponent picked a certain type in the builder. While I wouldn't be apposed to palafin or bundle getting the axed, I think that tera needs to be looked at in some aspect first, since in my eyes most of the "banworhy" mons are only banworthy because tera lets them beat their checks without having to sacrifice other matchups.
Being honest most of the time those Mons don't even need to tera to sweep, usually you are wasting your tera in order to defeat them. Iron bundle if tera wasn't in could 6-0 a team and would be more problematic than flutter mane.
Is it possible that there is an error causing cyclizar's Draco meteor to miss more often? I've missed at least half of them, and I notice that emvee had the same problem in his video. Does anyone else have this problem? /Srs
addiction is real kids, watch out
(let’s stop discussing Glaceon, it’s not viable or remotely discussion worthy)
Now that im thinking about it, tera changes are kinda like Random Crits in TF2, you know they are bad and they sometimes shit on what would be an excelent strategy, yet they are fun when you do it, even if it feels undeserved, I still think its too early to ban the gimmick and wait untill how tera warps the tournament
On a new note, thoughts on Armarouge / Cerluedge? Definitely seen more of the latter, typically running something like Weak Armour + SD + BBlade + Sneak. Haven’t seen much of Rouge, which isn’t surprising given that Super Dolphin and Santa’s Little Helper are currently cleaning house.
I could potentially see a small niche for SD+Sneak Cedge once Pult finishes reaching its full potential as an Anti-Shedtail measure, but don’t know what advantages that even has over something like Iron Valiant.
I could potentially see a small niche for SD+Sneak Cedge once Pult finishes reaching its full potential as an Anti-Shedtail measure, but don’t know what advantages that even has over something like Iron Valiant.
I think rouge and edge are both mostly gimmicks, but they're gimmicks that get results because they can be tricky to play around especially since people arn't really building with them in mind.
I have to say how much fun it is to use Lokix.
Even with not a high BST, it has amazing dual stab priority, pivot and coverage. Throw a CB on it and start spamming tinted lens boosted First Impression, Sucker Punch, U-Turn and Axe Kick.
It surprises a lot of roaring moons, dragapults, iron bundles...
Of course, hazards are a nightmare to deal with but can be manageble with team support. Overall a nice revenge killer/pivot.
Even with not a high BST, it has amazing dual stab priority, pivot and coverage. Throw a CB on it and start spamming tinted lens boosted First Impression, Sucker Punch, U-Turn and Axe Kick.
It surprises a lot of roaring moons, dragapults, iron bundles...
Of course, hazards are a nightmare to deal with but can be manageble with team support. Overall a nice revenge killer/pivot.
I was using my ingame team for fun while I figure out wtf to build with and I noticed something quite unfortunate:
Talonflame's Gale Wings doesn't grant priority to Tera Blast once tera'd flying.
Talonflame hasn't had a OU niche since gen 6 anyway, and it's lower tier career is mainly built on Flame Body anyway, but once tera was revealed my first thought was "huh tflame might be able to actually consistently use a stab move with gale wings again." Game said no.
Talonflame's Gale Wings doesn't grant priority to Tera Blast once tera'd flying.
Talonflame hasn't had a OU niche since gen 6 anyway, and it's lower tier career is mainly built on Flame Body anyway, but once tera was revealed my first thought was "huh tflame might be able to actually consistently use a stab move with gale wings again." Game said no.
I am so sad that Ceru doesn't get Sharpness, it even has swords for arms c'mon.
I've seen some sets running Jolly Weak Armor max atk/spe with Bitter Blade/ S Sneak / Close Combat / Swords Dance (or other coverage move if choice'd) but i don't think it has a place in the current OU metagame, maybe a UU or RU mon. Too slow and not bulky enough to make use of that big attack stat, but I personaly like that the fire/ghost is physical for a change.
Sometimes, I feel like I am playing on different Smogon site vs. everyone else on these forum’s.
People are naming Pokémon I never even seen before.
The Pokémon on your Radar are completely different vs. Pokémon on my Radar.
It seems the Lower 1,000 ELO Leagues have created their own Meta.
It’s really vicious down here.
I have been fighting against these Worm Team’s and the Cat Team’s.
No one is even talking about them.
The Worm Team’s often run Orthworm and Wugtrio.
Orthworm reminds me of an old school Pokémon named Glalie.
The Pokémon comes out on the field and Buffs itself over and over, until you have this crazy wall.
The Pokémon isn’t really doing anything, but their isn’t much you can do against it.
It’s like a Stall set up.
In addition, Orthworm has an Ability which makes him immune to Ground.
Orthworm is Steel type and normally Steel type have 3 weaknesses defensively (Fighting, Fire, & Ground).
Orthworm ability basically takes a weakness away from him narrowing the counter pool down to only 2 types.
Lucky for me, I have Fire Type on my team in Skeledirge.
Players running these Worm teams try to switch in Wugtrio to take out my Skeledirge.
Wugtrio is water type.
I don’t understand how Wugtrio got access to Dark move in Throat Chop, but they gave it to him.
Furthermore, Wugtrio is very fast with 120 Speed.
Only 11 Pokémon outspeed Wugtrio.
2 out of the 11 are not correctly in favor and don’t get played a lot.
Electrode can outspeed Wugtrio, but most players don’t use Electrode because he requires a very specific team.
Electrode main function in many of the past generations was more of a Disruptor/Enabler.
Electrode speed allowed him to get the jump on other Pokémon and cripple them with Thunder Wave.
Electrode access to Explosion also gave him the ability to try and take out key Pokémon on enemy team.
Paralyzing the Enemy Pokémon can help slow enemy Pokémon down and exploding on Key Pokémon can mess up any checks.
All the above disruptions help enable a slower speed sweeper to win, This has been Electrode main niche function.
The Next Pokémon who out speeds Wugtrio and doesn’t see a lot of play lately is Weavile
Weavile was one of Generation 8 best sweepers.
The problem is Weavile shares same typing as Chien-Po.
Players have been running Chien-Po has an upgraded option.
For the above reasons, You can clearly see 11 Pokémon out speed Wugtrio, but realistically only 9 are being used.
This puts a Pokémon like Wugtrio in an excellent sweeping spot for these Worm Team’s.
Also, No one is taking about the Cat Team’s!
Does anyone out their even realize what is going on in Lower 1,000 ELO Leagues?
Their is a War going on right now!
It’s a War to determine which starter is number 1!
My Skeledirge crew is out their fighting in the trenches.
We got no back up at all and none of these cats are on anyone radar.
The Meow team, Cat team, or Cat & Mouse team, What Ever you want to call them ladies and gentlemen, They are out their making moves and I feel some of those moves should be illegal!
These Cat teams are running Meowscarada, Persian, & Maushold.
Do you peeps even realize the Mouse on the Cat team can attack 10 times?
The move can’t be legal it’s definitely below the belt.
Truthfully, I don’t fully understand why they feel the need to run 2 different normal Pokémon.
I guess they plan to Terra switch one, but yeah the Cat team seems to be another popular Set up.
People are naming Pokémon I never even seen before.
The Pokémon on your Radar are completely different vs. Pokémon on my Radar.
It seems the Lower 1,000 ELO Leagues have created their own Meta.
It’s really vicious down here.
I have been fighting against these Worm Team’s and the Cat Team’s.
No one is even talking about them.
The Worm Team’s often run Orthworm and Wugtrio.
Orthworm reminds me of an old school Pokémon named Glalie.
The Pokémon comes out on the field and Buffs itself over and over, until you have this crazy wall.
The Pokémon isn’t really doing anything, but their isn’t much you can do against it.
It’s like a Stall set up.
In addition, Orthworm has an Ability which makes him immune to Ground.
Orthworm is Steel type and normally Steel type have 3 weaknesses defensively (Fighting, Fire, & Ground).
Orthworm ability basically takes a weakness away from him narrowing the counter pool down to only 2 types.
Lucky for me, I have Fire Type on my team in Skeledirge.
Players running these Worm teams try to switch in Wugtrio to take out my Skeledirge.
Wugtrio is water type.
I don’t understand how Wugtrio got access to Dark move in Throat Chop, but they gave it to him.
Furthermore, Wugtrio is very fast with 120 Speed.
Only 11 Pokémon outspeed Wugtrio.
2 out of the 11 are not correctly in favor and don’t get played a lot.
Electrode can outspeed Wugtrio, but most players don’t use Electrode because he requires a very specific team.
Electrode main function in many of the past generations was more of a Disruptor/Enabler.
Electrode speed allowed him to get the jump on other Pokémon and cripple them with Thunder Wave.
Electrode access to Explosion also gave him the ability to try and take out key Pokémon on enemy team.
Paralyzing the Enemy Pokémon can help slow enemy Pokémon down and exploding on Key Pokémon can mess up any checks.
All the above disruptions help enable a slower speed sweeper to win, This has been Electrode main niche function.
The Next Pokémon who out speeds Wugtrio and doesn’t see a lot of play lately is Weavile
Weavile was one of Generation 8 best sweepers.
The problem is Weavile shares same typing as Chien-Po.
Players have been running Chien-Po has an upgraded option.
For the above reasons, You can clearly see 11 Pokémon out speed Wugtrio, but realistically only 9 are being used.
This puts a Pokémon like Wugtrio in an excellent sweeping spot for these Worm Team’s.
Also, No one is taking about the Cat Team’s!
Does anyone out their even realize what is going on in Lower 1,000 ELO Leagues?
Their is a War going on right now!
It’s a War to determine which starter is number 1!
My Skeledirge crew is out their fighting in the trenches.
We got no back up at all and none of these cats are on anyone radar.
The Meow team, Cat team, or Cat & Mouse team, What Ever you want to call them ladies and gentlemen, They are out their making moves and I feel some of those moves should be illegal!
These Cat teams are running Meowscarada, Persian, & Maushold.
Do you peeps even realize the Mouse on the Cat team can attack 10 times?
The move can’t be legal it’s definitely below the belt.
Truthfully, I don’t fully understand why they feel the need to run 2 different normal Pokémon.
I guess they plan to Terra switch one, but yeah the Cat team seems to be another popular Set up.
Rain still has plenty of abusers so I don't see it hurting very much. Quaquaval should be seen a lot more often on rain teams once Palafin-H goes, as rain makes it snowball even harder than it already does, and palafin-H's ban will help Quaquaval really shine in rain and outside of it. Stuff like the aformentioned Barreskewda should be seen a bit more often too. (Not getting flip turn sucks though.) Hell maybe we will see gastro as a rain mon again with a bit of exploration? (Again recover nerf sucks, but storm drain is good.) I'm sure there are plenty of rain options.
Sun we may have to wait for stuff like Victini and Cinderace to return to truly come into its own, as the paradoxes can be good but for fire type sun abusers we have volc and torkoal as a sun setter, as well as Chi-Yu and that is pretty much it.
No dracozolt or drill makes sand kinda meh. Paradox donphans like sand though, so maybe once drill comes back we may see treads/tusk slotted onto sand teams.
Snow could be very good once stuff like arctozolt and A9 come back, as we have Cetitan as one slush rush abuser with passable speed. Galarking is going to be very good for setting snow as it ALSO gets chilly reception, which gives it a way to abuse future sight that it didn't have before. For now though, we have to settle with Slowking/Cetitan.
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I think Ceruledge is underutilized at the moment. We'll probably see it really get in its bag when the meta slows down. I love how much it preys on Corviknight, the only really solid defogger in the tier, and how it can take advantage of your own Corviknight often inviting Gholdengo in and then threatening it out. It doesn't take much investment in HP either to live non-specs/no-LO Gholdengo's Shadow Ball if you're worried about scarf sets beating your own Ceruledge (100 EV investment, to be specific.) Very solid pick imo, and has a lot of different sets though this one is my favourite:
(Ceruledge) (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bitter Blade
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance
Also been experimenting with bulky weakness policy/flame charge sets and other things, but this is just simple and hits hard.
alephgalactus
Banned deucer.
Is it because you’re running Scarfed Iron Bundle with Whirlpool?
Low ELO trash here, yeah its a wondefull world, sometimes you need no prediction at all because you know his iq is low as fuck and he doesnt know how to play, and sometimes you get Hone Claws LO Dragon Rush garchomp just forcing flinches, eventually youll get out i promise
Okay lad, heres a secret, its a contact move, therefore, you can run Rocky Helmet Corviknight or Rocky helmet + Rough skin Garchomp and look at him die due to all the self damage lmao
i think you just got unlucky man— i don't mean this in an insulting way ofc but i'm also in the lower Elo and have no idea what youre talking about www
Maushold has always been there, though it's not like it's unbeatable since you can switch in a Rocky Helmet user and watch that HP go down lmao. Idk why persian is there but go off yk
as for wugtrio, uh. gestures at palafin aha—
The meta just isn't kind to it. Fighting and water STABS are everywhere.
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