Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion [ SEE POST #5886 — mechanics update ]

TPP

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Hello everyone! With Scarlet and Violet finally being released, you all are free to start discussing the SV OU metagame here! Everything you need should be found in the data mine resources below. I will also list things in a similar manner to the role compendium to help distinguish potential roles. I'll try to keep it updated as we get more information. Enjoy!

Datamine Resources:

Part 1 of Moveset Listings (Pokemon Gens 1-5)
Part 2 of Moveset Listings (Pokemon Gens 6-9)

Amazing Spreadsheet by RoiDadadou that includes:

- New Moves
- New Abilities
- Mechanics Info
- Deleted Moves
- Changes to Moves
- Changes to Pokemon (stats/abilities/moves)
- New Items
Meowscarada
Skeledirge
Quaquaval
Oinkologne
Dudunsparce
Spidops
Lokix
Rabsca
Houndstone
Espartha
Farigiraf
Wugtrio
Dondozo
Veluza
Palafin
Arboliva
Scovillain
Bellibolt
Revavroom
Orthworm
Maushold
Cetitan
Baxcalibur
Tatsugiri
Cyclizar
Pawmot
Kilowattrel
Bombirdier
Squawkabilly
Flamigo
Klawf
Garganacl
Glimmora
Grafaiai
Dachsbun
Mabosstiff
Brambleghast
Gholdenghoul
Great Tusk
Brute Bonnet
Sandy Shocks
Scream Tail
Flutter Mane
Slither Wing
Roaring Moon
Iron Treads
Iron Moth
Iron Hands
Iron Jugulis
Iron Thorns
Iron Bundle
Iron Valiant
Ting-Lu
Chien-Pao
Wo-Chien
Chi-Yu
Tinkaton
Armarouge
Ceruledge
Toedscruel
Kingambit
Clodsire
Annihilape
Tauros (Paldean)
Tauros (Fire)
Tauros (Water)
I encourage you all to check the Spreadsheet as it is very well organized and includes everything new in a single convenient location. Aside from that, I will go ahead and list fully evolved mons in a Role Compendium format as I did last year below:

Entry Hazards:

Stealth Rock:
Spikes:
Toxic Spikes:
Toxic Debris(ability that triggers Toxic Spikes):
Sticky Web:

Hazard Removal:

Defog:
Rapid Spin:
Tidy Up:

Setup Sweepers/Breakers:

Bulk Up:
Dragon Dance:
Swords Dance:
Calm Mind:
Nasty Plot:
Quiver Dance:
Shell Smash:
Belly Drum:
Coil:

Weather:

Rain:
Sand:
Snow:
Sun:

Limited Distribution:

Knock Off:
 
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TPP

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New Mechanics:

Terastallise

- Any Pokemon can use it
- You may change your Pokemon's type into a new pure type
- Your Pokemon will get a STAB boost to moves of its new Tera type while still retaining STAB boosts on moves matching its original typing
- If you Terastilise into a type your Pokemon already had, then your Pokemon will have a 2.0 boost (like Adaptability) on attacks with that type
- You may Terastilise once per battle, and a Pokemon that Terastilises will keep it until the end of the battle
- The new move Tera Blast is base 80 and will match the Tera type chosen, while also turning physical or special, depending on whichever stat is higher

Examples:

Garchomp turns into a Fire-Type = It becomes pure Fire-type and gets STAB on Fire-type, Ground, and Dragon-type attacks

Garchomp turns into a Ground-type = It becomes pure Ground-type and gets 2.0x STAB on Ground-type attacks, and the normal 1.5 STAB on Dragon-type attacks.

Snow

- Hail has been replaced with Snow
- Snow no longer damages Pokemon at the end of the turn
- Ice-type Pokemon receive a 1.5x boost to their Defense stat, much like how Rock-types have a Special Defense boost in Sand
 

phoopes

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As someone who has not kept up with the leaks, a lot of the specifics on Terastralize are brand new to me. Also, the last time I played a current gen OU was all the way back in the BW days. So take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt.

This seems broken as hell at first glance lol. You can get a third STAB, change your type, or get an Adaptability boost with any 'mon at any time? Sheeeesh. It seems super fun, don't get me wrong! I hope it's not banned right away or anything, because it'd be nice to play around with it for a little bit. But it doesn't seem likely to stay after what happened with Dynamax IMO. Maybe I'll play around with it in RandBats.
 

Finchinator

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I will personally be following close attention to this thread as the metagame develops. Please post your thoughts -- we love involving people in our tiering process and having everyone join in on a fun discussion of the new metagame!
 
looking forward to playing sv ou soon! i imagine the first few days will be full of crazy tera plays and people desperately trying to somewhat counter flutter mane. i'm curious what people think about chien-pao, it seemed like he was obviously ridiculous at first but i've noticed a lot of people softening on it. its stabs are a lot worse than the ones weavile has in ss ou, and its ability is a bit less impressive than what people expected it to be. not to mention that its atk stat got directly nerfed in a patch. i thought it would be easily uber but now i'm starting to think it'd be fine in ou, what do other people think?
 
looking forward to playing sv ou soon! i imagine the first few days will be full of crazy tera plays and people desperately trying to somewhat counter flutter mane. i'm curious what people think about chien-pao, it seemed like he was obviously ridiculous at first but i've noticed a lot of people softening on it. its stabs are a lot worse than the ones weavile has in ss ou, and its ability is a bit less impressive than what people expected it to be. not to mention that its atk stat got directly nerfed in a patch. i thought it would be easily uber but now i'm starting to think it'd be fine in ou, what do other people think?
Its ability debuffs the opponent's defense to 0.75 of what it normally is right? I think that's slightly better than a Life Orb boost to its STABs, so I don't think the power discrepency between it and Weavile in Gen 8 OU is too far in Weavile's favor even if it had better STAB moves.

It seems like it'll be busted in the early meta since potentional checks like Tapu Fini and Melm aren't in the metagame. Weavile in BDSP similarly lost its best STAB moves, but was still ranked S since the meta around it also got much weaker, so I'd imagine chien-pao will be in a similar place. I think it would still be busted even if those mons were in the meta, but we'd at least have a few more answers to it.
 
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I am so fucking hyped to use Flutter Mane yall dont even know, anyway at first glance this mon seems extremely good. still working on a showdown SVOU team but this is the set that I think will be very good:

Flutter Mane @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 252 Spa / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Moonblast
- Thunderbolt
- Mystical Fire

LO, Booster Energy, Timid Nature, or Power Gem/Energy Ball could also work well, but 135 SPA and SPE makes this mon extremely threatening in general and it has quite decent coverage for those stats. As for Tera types... no idea lol. Maybe Steel, if you really decide you need to make it suddenly defensive, or Fire, to explode Steel types better.

FM also learns Calm Mind, which I do not think will be its best set but is probably something to consider. I just don't think it's quite defensive enough - it has extremely good SpD, but extremely bad Def, so take it as you will.

In any case, this mon seems extremely fun and I can't wait to get a good team around it. Also, everything losing Knock Off is amazing for this mon because it means there's so much less around that can kill it easily, and much fewer defensive mons that can threaten making it lose a huge chunk of HP

Edit: Specs is almost certainly better than LO lol
 
also, how does everyone feel about Maushold? it seems like this gen's obligatory "shitmon with something that seems like it could be scary", namely Population Bomb. Rocky helmet fucks it but man am I glad king's rock is preemptively gone lmfaooo
 
I'm prepared for this comment to age really poorly, but Maushold feels kind of insane right now. I've been running this:

Maushold @ Wide Lens
Ability: Technician
Terastal Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tidy Up
- Population Bomb
- Crunch
- Encore

You get off one or two Tidy Ups, and then terastalize and spam Population Bomb. Wide Lens gives you an absurd 90% chance to get all 10 hits.
 

Karxrida

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Some really random stuff got access to hazards, and I'm wondering if offensive SR Hydreigon would be at all viable.

Hydreigon @ Leftovers/Expert Belt
Level: 100
Timid Nature
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 48 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 208 Spe
- Dark Pulse
- Earth Power/Whatever coverage you want
- Fire Blast/Flamethrower
- Stealth Rock

Speed is for max EV neutral nature Iron Treads and Fire Blast/Flamethrower is for the only two Defog users worth a damn right now (Scizor and Corviknight). The coverage issue is real here but beating the Defoggers 1v1 is probably the priority. Even if Corviknight maxes out its SpD it loses to unboosted Fire Blast after Rocks.

252 SpA Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Corviknight: 188-222 (47 - 55.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

You could also just run Flamethrower since Scizor basically always dies to it and there's no miss chance. Still kills Corvi with Expert Belt, too.

252 SpA Hydreigon Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Scizor: 316-376 (92.1 - 109.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Expert Belt Hydreigon Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Corviknight: 185-218 (46.2 - 54.5%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Corvi/Scizor calcs are major worst case scenarios, though, so you could probably stick with Flamethrower. Plus this set still consistently 2HKOs the new Ghost dude that everyone is worried about being a spinblocker.

252 SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo : 276-326 (73 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
I'm prepared for this comment to age really poorly, but Maushold feels kind of insane right now. I've been running this:

Maushold @ Wide Lens
Ability: Technician
Terastal Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tidy Up
- Population Bomb
- Crunch
- Encore

You get off one or two Tidy Ups, and then terastalize and spam Population Bomb. Wide Lens gives you an absurd 90% chance to get all 10 hits.
Bite gets technician boost, so it's actually stronger than crunch on this
 
Yup, it doesnt work
also In my first match, I sweeped half his team with Flutter mane, then he sweeped the other my team with Withe Tiger and Mane
also, outside of RB, Pawmot has the same offensive power as using Cheeseburgers as weapons, i tried choice scarf like Jirachi set and cant even kill a 20% torkoal with Jolly stab mach punch
 
Garganacl @ Leftovers
Ability: Purifying Salt
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Salt Cure
- Body Press
- Recover
- Protect

remember that salt cure does 25% chip to waters and steels... the types that would normally want to switch in on a mono-rock mon. this also 1v1s flutter manes unless they predict your switch with energy ball or something. it's just generally really bulky and you will feel it when you use this.
 

G-Luke

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Yup, it doesnt work
also In my first match, I sweeped half his team with Flutter mane, then he sweeped the other my team with Withe Tiger and Mane
also, outside of RB, Pawmot has the same offensive power as using Cheeseburgers as weapons, i tried choice scarf like Jirachi set and cant even kill a 20% torkoal with Jolly stab mach punch
Why is your ass running Scarf Mach Punch? Deserved idk.
 
Flutter Mane @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Mystical Fire
- Shadow Ball
- Draining Kiss

Baxcalibur (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Thermal Exchange
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Glaive Rush
- Icicle Crash
- Iron Head

Loving this offensive duo even though metagame is new and chaotic. Just click button and run through teams. Flutter Mane just looks bonkers rn with choice scarf has it has a tremendous speed stat.

Baxcalibur is just nasty and has good offensive typing overall. 1 DD + STAB with terstallizing into signature move hits like a truck
 

ausma

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Only got about 1.5 hours into the metagame, and I have some choice words about some Pokemon, but I'd like to share a set or two and give some quick thoughts and ideas.

Cyclizar @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shed Tail
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin / U-turn
- Tera Blast

Cyclizar + Shed Tail feels mostly symptomatic of the egregious stuff being so widespread. I feel like its defensive utility is mostly zilch, and although its Speed tier is good and it's got nice utility, its lack of bulk and strength really stings for it, as it can't really force opponents out well unless it Terastylizes. Basically if you just attack it you're usually fine; think LGPE Eevee. Though that being said, if you can get into a situation to force a switch (such as through Terastylization) or get in on something passive, it can be really good at enabling Pokemon to do work for free. It's a bit weird to assess (especially only 1.5 hours in lol) but I feel it may not actually be that bad in practice once things settle down.

The set itself is pretty straight forward I feel. I'm using an Aguav Berry to really play into it being a Shed Tail bot and make it easier to get several Shed Tails passed sequentially. Knock Off is Knock Off, especially with limited distribution, and Rapid Spin/U-turn is generally filler but can be situationally nifty if you can't use Shed Tail. Tera Blast is cool because it synergizes with its Tera Type while being an alright option by itself even without Terastylization because of Normal-STAB.

Houndstone @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Rush
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Last Respects
- Play Rough
- Tera Blast
- Trick

Once a couple Pokemon are knocked out, Last Respects is destruction incarnate, even into Dark-types. The main thing is dealing with the Normal-types and getting a Sand setter, which... isn't that hard, really? Hippowdon/Tyranitar aren't hard to fit at all and even have nice caveats to boot. This thing is really disgusting on structures with Chien-Pao or Flutter Mane to force trades/damage on Last Respects checks, and power up the broken ass move in the process. I imagine once things settle down a bit counterplay will become a bit clearer but it's comical how obscene Houndstone has the potential to be.

Glimmora @ Black Sludge
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Ground / Rock
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Mortal Spin
- Power Gem
- Earth Power

Glimmora is actually really fun, especially since it's actually shockingly powerful, has Earth Power to smite Steel-types, and most notably has Mortal Spin which is a comically good tool for making incremental progress and clearing away hazards. It's also really good at hazard stacking; like, really good, so much so that I can definitely see a niche for it once things settle down.

Barring these, others have already mentioned the egregious stuff on my mind. Flutter Mane primarily is very silly and pretty difficult to check without really dedicated answers, and I'm really disturbed by Chien-Pao as well. I'll keep playing quite a bit over the next few days and keep reporting my thoughts and perceptions of the metagame at large, especially come this Sunday's Smogcast! Have fun with the new metagame everyone.
 
Espathra @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Dazzling Gleam
- Substitute
- Protect

this thing is super fun, didnt make any real "teams" around it tonight but it does a ton of work and is just strong enough to be usable especially if you have hazards to help it get past the edge of those damage thresholds. gleam is only for darks but i was seeing a shitton of roaring moon and chien pao so it did its job well
 
IT IS NOW TUSK TIME

Great Tusk @ Assault Vest
Ability: Protosynthesis
Terastal Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Headlong Rush
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Rapid Spin

Great Tusk is a behemoth. This set leans into its great natural Physical bulk and attack to bludgeon its way through opponents. It's STAB attacks and Stone Edge have great synergy with each other, and thanks to its bulk, it is able to acquire multiple speed boosts from Rapid Spin to turn into a sweeper easier than you would think. AV mitigates Tusk's low special bulk and allows it to do crazy shit like this:

Screen Shot 2022-11-17 at 11.52.16 PM.png


This set is great on sun teams, as its teammates appreciate another hazard remover, and Tusk greatly enjoys the weakening of water moves and the power boost it gets from sun.
 
Skeledirge @ Throat Spray
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Torch Song
- Shadow Ball
- Earth Power
- Yawn

I like how you can get +2 in SpA w/Torch Song x Throat Spray.

Also, Gholdengo's Make It Rain + White Herb = pretty sweer
 

Band

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Quick low quality post on what's standing out to me so far

Flutter Mane @ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
Terastal Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind
- Tera Blast

I've had the most sucess with Fighting tera Flutter as of now. Catches off guard any Steel or Dark type (Kingambit, etc etc). Fire is also valid for Corviknight and other steels but you have fire coverage for that. Plus lets you survive some hits you'd otherwise fall to (Dragapult Shadow Ball, Sucker Punch, etc). Probably ban this shit LMFAO.

Glimmora @ Focus Sash
Ability: Toxic Debris
Terastal Type: Flying
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Memento
- Earth Power

ausma shared her Glimmora set but I've been using this one. Probably not as consistent as hers but getting hazards with this is extremely easy. You can easily get rocks + spikes + tspikes, sometimes multiple layers. This + Flutter Mane is... insanely broken LMAO.

Iron Bundle @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Terastal Type: Fighting
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Agility
- Freeze-Dry
- Hydro Pump
- Tera Blast

Insanely good cleaner and Tera Blast means you don't have to rely on shit Hydro against stuff that resists Ice. Really really good.
 

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