Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

[Soiramio3000]

"Sticky web is dea..."
View attachment 483928

Gholdengo is the best nasty plot user in the tier, and also heavily boosts webs's viability, if you weren't running one before with Chi-Yu, you definitely should've been.

Gholdengo does not count.
It has exactly one role in sticky web teams:to keep the sticky web in the enemy team.

Giving it nasty plot and tunring it to a sweeper is very risky.

 

[Ctann]

Anyone else tried choice scarf / choice band earthquake attackers?

the current meta favours them a lot, as there are limited ground immunities that are also high usage.

corviknight, dragonite, rotom-w and.. maybe orthworm, balloon gholdengo and hydr?

here’s a visual representation of the most common



this means lots of teams rely on great tusk or maybe dondozo, hatterene, etc, as the earthquake check after their immunity is gone. This is assuming they have an immunity in the first place.

this is pretty excellent for the choice ground attackers, of which there are some good options:

hits hard with its EQ and some switch in potential to come in

the best choice user, thanks to its ability to switch into lots of things from iron moth to gholdengo, it can also trade hits with great tusk as early as its third switch in, thanks to its ability

its niche is that it can also pivot out of the ground immune Pokémon that might switch in.


a sample set is below:



Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
Tera Type: Ground / Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw

There really isn’t a need for coverage moves, except maybe rock slide due to the prevalence of bulkarona everywhere.

Dragon claw is literally only there for four main reasons:

1. OHKO roaring moon/dragapult (EQ can OHKO if it has taken some hazards damage),

2. 2HKO most dragonite/hydreigon or at least hit them on a switch,

3. Deal ~30% or more to most rotom, puts it into KO range from strong neutral attacks from partners, and,

4. to break Gholdengos Balloon. Not a fan of fire fang/Aqua tail etc, as they’re barely ever needed or used. Maybe on banded set.

choice band over choice scarf to 2hko hatterene, do a bit more against dondozo stall teams and Tera fairy garganacl, and reduce the switching cycles with great tusk from about 3-5 cycles to 2-4 cycles. It’s supposed to give you reliable OHKOs on kingambit and iron hands too, although you’ll find they often have Tera flying anyway, so the value isn’t really there.

Scarf is better otherwise thanks to the revenging ability, being able to switch into faster Pokémon like pyro ball cinderace, checking all types of misc threats at the fringes of OU, and forcing out/ forcing Tera with lots of Pokémon’s from gholdengo levels of usage to iron hands. Importantly, You also get 3 switchin cycles with most iron moth due to the higher speed, whereas band only gives you 1-2.

This is a big deal for offensive teams because there are no other high-viability, and reliable, offensive switchins to iron moth. Unless we are counting banded dragapult, because ceruledge ain’t it.

Tera ground for scoring critical KO thresholds, and Tera ghost to give immunity to extremespeed and rapid spin in some miscellaneous niche matchups. Tera steel iron head also has perks against all the Tera fairy Pokémon’s running around, although it might need band to actually put in work against garganacl and dondozo. Terablast electric allows you to do notable damage to corviknight, toxapex and dondozo as well as the Tera flying/water users.

—


ps , I have a feeling when Chien Pao goes.. dragapult will be filling the hole. A high speed shadow ball with choice specs boosted power and potential Tera ghost support is something that’s already excellent, and it will be more obvious when chien pao banded crunch is no longer taking the limelight. Do you think dragapult might be ban worthy? With a modest nature it can respectively OHKO and 2HKO a long list of offensive/defensive Pokémon, and there are almost no high viability checks.

 

[Red Raven]

Anyone else tried choice scarf / choice band earthquake attackers?

the current meta favours them a lot, as there are limited ground immunities that are also high usage.

corviknight, dragonite, rotom-w and.. maybe orthworm, balloon gholdengo and hydr?

here’s a visual representation of the most common




the best choice user, thanks to its ability to switch into lots of things from iron moth to gholdengo, it can also trade hits with great tusk as early as its third switch in, thanks to its ability


a sample set is below:



Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
Tera Type: Ground / Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw

There really isn’t a need for coverage moves, except maybe rock slide due to the prevalence of bulkarona everywhere.

Dragon claw is literally only there for four main reasons:

1. OHKO roaring moon/dragapult (EQ can OHKO if it has taken some hazards damage),

2. 2HKO most dragonite/hydreigon or at least hit them on a switch,

3. Deal ~30% or more to most rotom, puts it into KO range from strong neutral attacks from partners, and,

4. to break Gholdengos Balloon. Not a fan of fire fang/Aqua tail etc, as they’re barely ever needed or used. Maybe on banded set.

choice band over choice scarf to 2hko hatterene, do a bit more against dondozo stall teams and Tera fairy garganacl, and reduce the switching cycles with great tusk from about 3-5 cycles to 2-4 cycles. It’s supposed to give you reliable OHKOs on kingambit and iron hands too, although you’ll find they often have Tera flying anyway, so the value isn’t really there.

Scarf is better otherwise thanks to the revenging ability, checking all types of misc threats at the fringes of OU, and forcing out/ forcing Tera with lots of Pokémon’s from gholdengo levels of usage to iron hands. Importantly, You also get 3 switchin cycles with most iron moth due to the higher speed, whereas band only gives you 1-2.

This is a big deal for offensive teams because there are no other high-viability, and reliable, offensive switchins to iron moth. Unless we are counting banded dragapult, because ceruledge ain’t it.

Tera ground for scoring critical KO thresholds, and Tera ghost to give immunity to extremespeed and rapid spin in some miscellaneous niche matchups. Tera steel iron head also has perks against all the Tera fairy Pokémon’s running around, although it might need band to actually put in work against garganacl and dondozo

I have. Scarf Chomp is really strong rn and due to how it fell off a couple generations back, it really is a surprise factor that can net important kills when your enemy least expects it. I personally prefer outrage over rocks because of the lack of fairies in the tier. Compared to last gen where a certain blob or a Tapu was on every team, now it's not every team that will have Galladevoir or Hatterene. Those that don't have a fairy is many times just complete outrage bait especially since the most common resist, Corvibirb, doesn't exactly threaten Garchomp that much in return, aside from pesky rocky helmet stuff. Not only that, even tera ground earthquake can easily fail to get some kills, namely something like taking out a Chinese Weavile at the start of the battle and outrage's extra damage can really count especially if there's a teammate that can really abuse the killings of the faster threats

The biggest deal breaker for me on why I want outrage are these calcs

Hide

252 Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chien-Pao: 262-310 (87 - 102.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 278-328 (87.6 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Tera Dragon Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chien-Pao: 316-372 (104.9 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Often times just outraging at the start of the battle isn't that good of an idea but I have been in battles where taking out Chinese Weavile at the start is well worth the tera

Aside from that, I also tried to experiment with fairy tera so that Garchomp can revenge kill even boosted Dragapult or Salamoon but that's pretty specific and I would really only recommend it if you don't have that many methods of dealing with dragon dancers

 

[Mikegengsta]

Anyone else tried choice scarf / choice band earthquake attackers?

the current meta favours them a lot, as there are limited ground immunities that are also high usage.

corviknight, dragonite, rotom-w and.. maybe orthworm, balloon gholdengo and hydr?

here’s a visual representation of the most common



this means lots of teams rely on great tusk or maybe dondozo, hatterene, etc, as the earthquake check after their immunity is gone. This is assuming they have an immunity in the first place.

this is pretty excellent for the choice ground attackers, of which there are some good options:

hits hard with its EQ and some switch in potential to come in

the best choice user, thanks to its ability to switch into lots of things from iron moth to gholdengo, it can also trade hits with great tusk as early as its third switch in, thanks to its ability

its niche is that it can also pivot out of the ground immune Pokémon that might switch in.


a sample set is below:



Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
Tera Type: Ground / Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw

There really isn’t a need for coverage moves, except maybe rock slide due to the prevalence of bulkarona everywhere.

Dragon claw is literally only there for four main reasons:

1. OHKO roaring moon/dragapult (EQ can OHKO if it has taken some hazards damage),

2. 2HKO most dragonite/hydreigon or at least hit them on a switch,

3. Deal ~30% or more to most rotom, puts it into KO range from strong neutral attacks from partners, and,

4. to break Gholdengos Balloon. Not a fan of fire fang/Aqua tail etc, as they’re barely ever needed or used. Maybe on banded set.

choice band over choice scarf to 2hko hatterene, do a bit more against dondozo stall teams and Tera fairy garganacl, and reduce the switching cycles with great tusk from about 3-5 cycles to 2-4 cycles. It’s supposed to give you reliable OHKOs on kingambit and iron hands too, although you’ll find they often have Tera flying anyway, so the value isn’t really there.

Scarf is better otherwise thanks to the revenging ability, being able to switch into faster Pokémon like pyro ball cinderace, checking all types of misc threats at the fringes of OU, and forcing out/ forcing Tera with lots of Pokémon’s from gholdengo levels of usage to iron hands. Importantly, You also get 3 switchin cycles with most iron moth due to the higher speed, whereas band only gives you 1-2.

This is a big deal for offensive teams because there are no other high-viability, and reliable, offensive switchins to iron moth. Unless we are counting banded dragapult, because ceruledge ain’t it.

Tera ground for scoring critical KO thresholds, and Tera ghost to give immunity to extremespeed and rapid spin in some miscellaneous niche matchups. Tera steel iron head also has perks against all the Tera fairy Pokémon’s running around, although it might need band to actually put in work against garganacl and dondozo. Terablast electric allows you to do notable damage to corviknight, toxapex and dondozo as well as the Tera flying/water users.

—


ps , I have a feeling when Chien Pao goes.. dragapult will be filling the hole. A high speed shadow ball with choice specs boosted power and potential Tera ghost support is something that’s already excellent, and it will be more obvious when chien pao banded crunch is no longer taking the limelight. Do you think dragapult might be ban worthy? With a modest nature it can respectively OHKO and 2HKO a long list of offensive/defensive Pokémon, and there are almost no high viability checks.

The cycle of life continues. Chiyu then Chien pao then dragapult then roaring moon then dragonite. It has to stop somewhere lol

 

[Local Dog]

The cycle of life continues. Chiyu then Chien pao then dragapult then roaring moon then dragonite. It has to stop somewhere lol

It stops when the uncompetitive threats are gone. We also had a bunch of bans last gen, but the pace of suspects was getting slower as obviously broken mons like Garmanitan or Vish were gone. Same now. I highly doubt that either Pult or Nite are gonna get banned or even ever suspected, as both are great mons but neither is uncompetitive

 

[Goodbye & Thanks]

Gholdengo does not count.
It has exactly one role in sticky web teams:to keep the sticky web in the enemy team.

Giving it nasty plot and tunring it to a sweeper is very risky.

Can I ask what Gholdengo set you’re running? If anything, I feel like bulky Gholdengo with Nasty Plot and Recover would actually be the best set at preventing the removal of Webs and it can definitely be a viable sweeper, especially with Webs support. The only potential trade off I could see is if you want to run Air Balloon on Gholdengo to help it switch into Tusk/Treads and Recover Gholdengo kind of wants Leftovers, but Air Balloon on Nasty Plot/Recover Gholdengo is still good, and you’re risking switching into Knock regardless. Besides, the point of a Webs teams is to be hyper aggressive and the games shouldn’t be lasting long anyway, so you don’t need to keep Webs up for too long. For that reason, even just a traditional Gholdengo with max speed/max special attack and running Nasty Plot, Shadow Ball, Make It Rain, and Focus Blast, possibly with an Air Balloon, should still work. Even if you switch Gholdengo into something like Great Tusk and it dies to Knock Off, Webs would still be up and then you could bring in your next mon to potentially sweep, so Gholdengo would have done its job.

Also, why do you even feel like you need to have a Nasty Plot sweeper on a Webs team? It’s a little ironic because Nasty Plot Gholdengo actually feels like the most logical inclusion on a Webs team, so in this case I think you should end up having one, but it’s not like that’s a completely integral part of the archetype or anything. If you’re saying that you want a special sweeper because you’re afraid of running into physical walls or something, there are other options like Iron Valiant (probably with Calm Mind if you’re really looking for something that can sweep) that could fit that role. Here is a Sticky Web sample team built by the reputable builder, Mimikyu Stardust; it has CM Valiant and Trick Scarf Gholdengo with Nasty Plot. I recommend you try this team and/or at least look at its structure when you’re building your own Webs team.

 

[zyzzyva]

252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Tera Dark Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 362-426 (106.1 - 124.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Ghost Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 240-284 (70.3 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Pult's Tera Ghost Specs Shadow Ball is like 50% weaker than Chien's Tera Dark Band Crunch. They're not really comparable in terms of spammability or breaking power; Banded Tera Dragon Dragon Darts gets close, though:

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dragon Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 340-404 (99.7 - 118.4%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO

But that set is a little easier to deal with via Steels and Fairies (and all the walls that Tera into those types), and also if you're using Tera Dragon on CB Pult it means you're stuck with Phantom Force as your Ghost STAB. In terms of raw breaking power, Pult has a difficult time measuring up to Chien-Pao. If Pult were ever to get suspected/banned, I don't think it would be the result of any one set being too powerful (like Chien-Pao), but rather its versatility, since it can run Band, Specs, Hex + WoW/TWave, or DD sets, and can even throw in things like Sub to mess with defensive counterplay. The answers to these sets can vary pretty wildly which makes it difficult to play against. That said, I think we're a pretty long ways away from Dragapult requiring any sort of tiering action, much less Roaring Moon or Dnite.

As an aside, Modest/Adamant are pretty acceptable to run on Pult I think. All you really miss out on outspeeding are Jolly Chien (may get banned anyway), +1 252 speed Adamant Tusk, and +1 252 speed Adamant Dnite.

 

[Dhrabb]

As an aside, Modest/Adamant are pretty acceptable to run on Pult I think. All you really miss out on outspeeding are Jolly Chien (may get banned anyway), +1 252 speed Adamant Tusk, and +1 252 speed Adamant Dnite.

I heavily agree with this, I've been using modest specs Pult and the increase in power is pretty noticable with very little drawback imo.

 

[Soiramio3000]

Can I ask what Gholdengo set you’re running? If anything, I feel like bulky Gholdengo with Nasty Plot and Recover would actually be the best set at preventing the removal of Webs and it can definitely be a viable sweeper, especially with Webs support. The only potential trade off I could see is if you want to run Air Balloon on Gholdengo to help it switch into Tusk/Treads and Recover Gholdengo kind of wants Leftovers, but Air Balloon on Nasty Plot/Recover Gholdengo is still good, and you’re risking switching into Knock regardless. Besides, the point of a Webs teams is to be hyper aggressive and the games shouldn’t be lasting long anyway, so you don’t need to keep Webs up for too long. For that reason, even just a traditional Gholdengo with max speed/max special attack and running Nasty Plot, Shadow Ball, Make It Rain, and Focus Blast, possibly with an Air Balloon, should still work. Even if you switch Gholdengo into something like Great Tusk and it dies to Knock Off, Webs would still be up and then you could bring in your next mon to potentially sweep, so Gholdengo would have done its job.

Also, why do you even feel like you need to have a Nasty Plot sweeper on a Webs team? It’s a little ironic because Nasty Plot Gholdengo actually feels like the most logical inclusion on a Webs team, so in this case I think you should end up having one, but it’s not like that’s a completely integral part of the archetype or anything. If you’re saying that you want a special sweeper because you’re afraid of running into physical walls or something, there are other options like Iron Valiant (probably with Calm Mind if you’re really looking for something that can sweep) that could fit that role. Here is a Sticky Web sample team built by the reputable builder, Mimikyu Stardust; it has CM Valiant and Trick Scarf Gholdengo with Nasty Plot. I recommend you try this team and/or at least look at its structure when you’re building your own Webs team.

I have deleted my teams, I think that I was using a choice-specs attacker.

 

[Soiramio3000]

I wonder why doesn't quaquaval see enough play anymore.
I use it and I don't have a problem with it.

 

[awyp]

I wonder why doesn't quaquaval see enough play anymore.
I use it and I don't have a problem with it.

It’s still a popular physical offensive mon especially in a rain team but you still have better options namely Chein Pao, Dragonite, Cinderace, Roaring Moon and probably CB or Bulk Up Great Tusk. It’s probably all comes down to team build. Like it hasn’t dropped to UU.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

It’s still a popular physical offensive mon especially in a rain team but you still have better options namely Chein Pao, Dragonite, Cinderace, Roaring Moon and probably CB or Bulk Up Great Tusk. It’s probably all comes down to team build. Like it hasn’t dropped to UU.

I guess Quaquaval also faces competition with other water types. Azumarill exists, and in rain teams there's Floatzel and Barraskewda. There're too many good things available

 

[TheMantyke]

The frog is back and ready to Gunk Shot 11 days from now. No word on whether it's Protean or Battle Bond yet. Keep in mind that Battle Bond Greninja, like SM, isn't breedable. Protean or Torrent Greninja being released wouldn't release Battle Bond, and Battle Bond being released wouldn't release Protean or Torrent Greninja (or Froakie for LC in general since it needs Protean / Torrent).

Edit: Got confirmation that Battle Bond is still listed as in the "Undiscovered" egg group in Pokemon SV still, so a potential Battle Bond Greninja cannot be bred still, just like in SM. We're either getting one or the other.

 

[YataGarasu]

Snip-No disrespect to the rest of an interesting read.*


ps , I have a feeling when Chien Pao goes.. dragapult will be filling the hole. A high speed shadow ball with choice specs boosted power and potential Tera ghost support is something that’s already excellent, and it will be more obvious when chien pao banded crunch is no longer taking the limelight. Do you think dragapult might be ban worthy? With a modest nature it can respectively OHKO and 2HKO a long list of offensive/defensive Pokémon, and there are almost no high viability checks.

I don't think so to be honest. It's powerful no doubt, but on specs it suffers from being locked down depending on selection made. DM lock lets fairies in for free. Shadow Ball lock let's even frail dark types like Meowscarada in for free, and shadow ball/Scarf Rotom has leverage. Basically you either switch and lose momentum, or stay in and Pult is in dead waters.

Third option for either Surf/TB/FB assuming fourth is U turn all have a few checks to create a disadvantage.

Unlike Chien Pao who clicks Crunch and anything that doesn't have +2 priority (First Impression) die or 2HKO regardless, and that's on resist and on the tankiest Dondozo. Even some other options from UUBL/UU/RU can also check pult pretty simply.

Clodsire doesn't care what you run and can poison stall it, Garg depending on set can tank almost any option it has and chip it to death (Fairy stops DM threat, water to surf, etc.). Gholdengo Scarf/Trick Scarf 1HKO SB regardless. Fairy tera Skeledirge smirks at DM force switch as it TS into SB/Hex to nab the KO, same as if you run Fire Blast. Ting Lu tanks everything Ruinations you + EQ or just EQ you to death or can WW chip you to death. Cereluedge can SS X 2 after rocks for a near guaranteed KO and out priority it. Roaring Moon can offset some ATK EVs for speed to outspeed and Crunch it like a potato chip. It's also suffers entry hazards and can easily be chipped in force outs.

Tera wise a lot of options have answers to plenty of its lock choices. It is strong, will certainly catch KOs, but I doubt outside of suspect test maybe it's nowhere near as bad as Chien Pao or Chi-Yu. Still hard to switch in on it unless you predict correctly, but it has quite a bit of ways to play around it or cause the trainer of Drags to lose momentum in match up. It's a threat and strong for sure, just nowhere near comparable or as threatening.

Without specs, it's special set isn't as majorly an issue. DM becomes severely worse off and although Ghost Tera SB can hurt still, again Meowscarada comes in and whatever comes in is eating a knock off if not pult itself or SP. Would be funny to see random Weavile usage Spikes if that occurs though.

 

[Mikegengsta]

View attachment 484326

The frog is back and ready to Gunk Shot 11 days from now. No word on whether it's Protean or Battle Bond yet. Keep in mind that Battle Bond Greninja, like SM, isn't breedable. Protean or Torrent Greninja being released wouldn't release Battle Bond, and Battle Bond being released wouldn't release Protean or Torrent Greninja (or Froakie for LC in general since it needs Protean / Torrent).

Edit: Got confirmation that Battle Bond is still listed as in the "Undiscovered" egg group in Pokemon SV still, so a potential Battle Bond Greninja cannot be bred still, just like in SM. We're either getting one or the other.

With greninja on the horizon, I’m curious how the meta will shift now that we have potentially another spike user and priority water shuriken. Haven’t seen greninja for a long time so not sure how it will adapt.

 

[Finchinator]

Greninja will start in OU when it is released in just under two weeks.

 

[1LDK]

Honestly, with the Battle Bond Nerf, the protean nerf and the Hidden Powers getting axed from the game, unless gren starts using tera blast or something, we might see it getting walled by more than 2 pokemon for once

also

You wanna hear something scary?

Loaded Dice Water Shuriken

 

[viivian]

View attachment 484326

The frog is back and ready to Gunk Shot 11 days from now. No word on whether it's Protean or Battle Bond yet. Keep in mind that Battle Bond Greninja, like SM, isn't breedable. Protean or Torrent Greninja being released wouldn't release Battle Bond, and Battle Bond being released wouldn't release Protean or Torrent Greninja (or Froakie for LC in general since it needs Protean / Torrent).

Edit: Got confirmation that Battle Bond is still listed as in the "Undiscovered" egg group in Pokemon SV still, so a potential Battle Bond Greninja cannot be bred still, just like in SM. We're either getting one or the other.

yet another gholdengo check, thank you game freak

although beyond it checking gholdengo, i don't know how else it'll interact with the rest of the metagame, especially due to the protean nerfs and the fact that a lot of pokemon can hit it super hard and/or for super effective damage. and its speed tier, while good, leaves it being forced to switch against pokemon like meowscarada, dragapult and scarfed gholdengo, for instance. i'm really excited to see how this guy plays out in OU though, seems like it'd be interesting to see how it plays out with all the nerfs it's recieved

 

[1LDK]

Okay so I have been doing some work on interaction against greninja

Greninja @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn/Extrasensory
- Ice Beam
Greninja can run a pletora of sets, band, sd, specs, scarf, lead, battle bond loaded dice, battle bond specs, but i think specs gren is gonna be the most common due to the other 2 users of protean being phisical, with that said, i have recolected some interesting info about multiple tier interactions

Defensive mons that can potentially take him in

water absorb (and tera steel just in case for ice beam), AV and wall it hard if gren has no Extrasensory
walls if it is locked in Extrasensory or Dark Pulse, Walls anything that is not Dark Pulse, walls it forever if it is Tera Water Garga, AV gets free entry if locked into dark pulse, max hp max spedef cannot handle it forever but it lives for long enough to get a thunder wave or heavy damage with Hydro Pump, while not a mon known for his defenses, max hp, max spedef and Light Screen trivializes his attacks to the point of comedy and 2HKOS with Spirit Break

Offensive mons that can potentially take him in

, are naturally faster so its free food for them, they cannot enter on anything tho, need rocks support to revenge killed with Mach Punch (its a 75% of OHKO) if he is running sash, if it is band then go for it

So these are the interactions i could find from this theorymonning, what do you guys think

 

[GarchompFan1512]

Two things first Greninja will probably get banned pretty quickly as we learned our lesson from Gen 6
Two what are some good cores for the current meta

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

View attachment 484326

The frog is back and ready to Gunk Shot 11 days from now. No word on whether it's Protean or Battle Bond yet. Keep in mind that Battle Bond Greninja, like SM, isn't breedable. Protean or Torrent Greninja being released wouldn't release Battle Bond, and Battle Bond being released wouldn't release Protean or Torrent Greninja (or Froakie for LC in general since it needs Protean / Torrent).

Edit: Got confirmation that Battle Bond is still listed as in the "Undiscovered" egg group in Pokemon SV still, so a potential Battle Bond Greninja cannot be bred still, just like in SM. We're either getting one or the other.

my money's on protean, personally. i can't see them pushing battle bond greninja without it actually having the ash form anymore

Greninja will probably get banned pretty quickly as we learned our lesson from Gen 6

lol. lmao, even. between the protean nerf, the battle bond nerf, the loss of scald and hidden power, no longer having access to the z-crystals it would often run, the advent of heavy-duty boots, and the introduction of so many other spikes setters, gren's in a much worse place than it's ever been before. still ou-worthy and very versatile, but not even worth considering for a ban

 

[Ehmcee]

Find it sort of funny that we'll now have a trio of fast protean/libero mons, all forming a fire/water/grass core.

A thing of note is that Meowscarada is still remaining as the fastest protean user, which means that it could get a slight boost in viability as a check to Greninja, due to outspeeding it and resisting both it's stabs. Not only that, but Greninja also has to compete with Meowscarda for a role of spiker.

Overall Greninja is almost definitely going to come out as the premier Protean abuser, but I feel hopeful for meowscarada getting somewhat better :)

 

[Critaquil]

so something thats just occured to me: why are people running + speed garchomp?

I know that sounds dumb, but really, what do you lose out on by going + attack? outrunning max speed volcarona at +0? a scenario that's basically never gonna happen? you still outrun great tusk, and I genuinely cannot think of any notable pokemon that chomp would want to be +speed to outrun.

 

[YataGarasu]

so something thats just occured to me: why are people running + speed garchomp?

I know that sounds dumb, but really, what do you lose out on by going + attack? outrunning max speed volcarona at +0? a scenario that's basically never gonna happen? you still outrun great tusk, and I genuinely cannot think of any notable pokemon that chomp would want to be +speed to outrun.
View attachment 484381

It wants to outspeed: Other Garchomps (especially on lead), Hydreigon, and probably Haxorus as niche as it may be. There might be a few others I'm not aware of.

 

[gigi44t44]

It wants to outspeed: Other Garchomps (especially on lead), Hydreigon, and probably Haxorus as niche as it may be. There might be a few others I'm not aware of.

i have a question how strong is flowertrick with choiceband+adamant+teragrass+grassy terrain and how much is it with overgrowth
is it comparable to 's choice band adamant strong jaw hitting first ficious rend with or without rain