Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

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it's not the best but it's the best in my heart
here's my SW set:
bug bossu (Slither Wing) @ Choice Band
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Rock (or flying)
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Body Press
- Acrobatics
- Brick Break
- Earthquake
 

Dusk Mage Necrozma

formerly XenonHero126
View attachment 469610
it's not the best but it's the best in my heart
here's my SW set:
bug bossu (Slither Wing) @ Choice Band
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Rock (or flying)
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Body Press
- Acrobatics
- Brick Break
- Earthquake
Acrobatics on a mon holding an item? Body Press on an offensive mon with no Defense investment? 2 Fighting moves, neither of which are the good one (CC)?

Slither Wing is awesome but this ain’t it
 
I see so many Cyclizars run max speed and HP with a full utility/support set. Since Cyclizar is the only viable base 121 speed at the moment, how important is it for Cyclizar to speed tie with other Cyclizars over having a slower Shed Tail?
 

Finchinator

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OU Leader
I don't know what Finch is running but I run this set and I've had pretty good luck with it thus far. I usually run Dark Tera Type for that additional boost in combination with Black Glasses. I think this set is pretty standard (To my knowledge). You can also run Stealth Rock variant to throw off your opponent.

Kingambit @ Black Glasses
Ability: Supreme Overlord
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Kowtow Cleave
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance
I run this, but with speed for Corviknight
 

1LDK

It's never going to get better
is a Top Team Rater
View attachment 469610
it's not the best but it's the best in my heart
here's my SW set:
bug bossu (Slither Wing) @ Choice Band
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Rock (or flying)
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Body Press
- Acrobatics
- Brick Break
- Earthquake
I havent trued Slither Wing but if i had to do something with it would be something like

Slither Wing @ Choice Band
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- First Impression
- Flare Blitz
- Zen Headbutt

Pair this with torkoal for max fun with Flare Blitz + Protosintesis, speaking of Proto mons, outside of the 2 main ones, Roaring Moon and Great Tusk, have you lads been experimenting with the past mons or what (also future if you feel futuristic idk)
 

Dusk Mage Necrozma

formerly XenonHero126
Pair this with torkoal for max fun with Flare Blitz + Protosintesis, speaking of Proto mons, outside of the 2 main ones, Roaring Moon and Great Tusk, have you lads been experimenting with the past mons or what (also future if you feel futuristic idk)
I've been using a Sun team with Scarf Slither Wing, works pretty well.

Slither Wing @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Bug/Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake

I'm trying a Wish Scream Tail to help Torkoal stay alive but I'm not getting great results.
 
I've been using a Sun team with Scarf Slither Wing, works pretty well.

Slither Wing @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Bug/Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake

I'm trying a Wish Scream Tail to help Torkoal stay alive but I'm not getting great results.
I might have to try your set out at some point, looks solid! This is the one I'm using for my sun team atm


Mothrapillar (Slither Wing) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Whirlwind
- First Impression
- Close Combat
- U-turn

The main purpose of it was to be a check to T-tar and Chien-Pao and to use its nice resists to help the team out and punish U-Turn or other contact moves. I found that U-Turn, CC, and First Impression are mandatory on it, while the last moveslot was up for grabs; I was initially using Earthquake, but found I wasn't really using it too much currently since my Sandy Shocks already wrecked ground-weak mons. Decided to use Whirlwind instead to mess with Cyclizar and setup mons, although I'll probably change it once Cyclizar (or Shed Tail as a whole) is addressed/banned.

Since I'm using it more as a bulky pivot/remover, I think I'm going to adjust the EV's to focus more on bulk instead of speed now that I'm looking at it. This thing lives for a surprisingly long time when used effectively
 


Masquerain @ Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Ice Beam
- Foul Play / U-Turn
- Tailwind / U-Turn

or

Masquerain @ Focus Sash / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Quiver Dance
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump / Hurricane​

Masquerain is the best webs setter in OU right now (not saying much, given the other two are Kricketune and Spidops), and actually has some really unique traits that help it work as a lead. Access to Intimidate is nice, alongside somewhat acceptable Special bulk of 70 / 82. I've been working with two sets as of late; a support setter and an offensive setter.

Masquerain's coverage really is great, but it does deal with 4MSS (unless you want to drop Webs and go for full Quiver, but it's very outclassed in that role).
 

alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
speaking of Proto mons, outside of the 2 main ones, Roaring Moon and Great Tusk, have you lads been experimenting with the past mons or what (also future if you feel futuristic idk)
Here’s my opinion on each of the past mons, since I’ve spent some time trying all of them out.
  • We already know how Flutter Mane turned out.
  • Everyone knows about Great Tusk and Roaring Moon, so I’ll skip analyses on them. No use treading on well-trodden ground.
  • I haven’t found much success with Brute Bonnet. It doesn’t really have anything going for it besides Spore (a role in which it is outclassed by Amoonguss and Breloom) and benefiting from Synthesis in the sun even more than Synthesis users usually do. Outclassed as a Grass/Dark type offensively by Meowscarada and defensively by Wo-Chien.
  • Sandy Shocks is a scary sun sweeper that can benefit from a 1.5x Speed boost if you EV it just right, allowing it to run Specs while also outspeeding most things in the sun. Also gets Spikes, Stealth Rock and Screens, but don’t run those, that’s the Devil tempting you.
  • Scream Tail is the only real Wishpasser in the game and functions as that pretty handily. Boomburst also hits through Substitute, which disrupts some braindead Cyclizar strategies even though it’s only coming off base 65 Sp. Atk.
  • Slither Wing’s great in the sun but only good outside of it. That First Impression hits like a nuclear bomb, but, well, you can only use it once.
Masquerain is the best webs setter in OU right now (not saying much, given the other two are Kricketune and Spidops)
Masquerain is also going to be the best webs setter in ZU when it ends up there because it isn’t viable. Setting up Webs sounds useful in a meta where hazards are basically unremovable, but after they’re set up you’re basically running 5 mons, as opposed to something like Glimmora or Ting-Lu that can actually function after the hazards are set.
 
Anyone know some reliable switch ins to annihilape that can remove it without losing a ton of health? Assuming it could open with drain punch or bulk up. I know dondozo is the main one but looking to see if there are other options.
 

Perish Song

flaunt
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Anyone know some reliable switch ins to annihilape that can remove it without losing a ton of health? Assuming it could open with drain punch or bulk up. I know dondozo is the main one but looking to see if there are other options.
I generally use Garchomp in my teams as general utility ( Rocks, Spikes, Dtail ). Combination of Rocky Helmet + Rough Skin generally chips more than what they can recover. As they try to setup more I phaze them out with Dragon Tail.

Be advised tho this doesnt work against already boosted Annihilape, they need to be +0/+1 tops.
 
Ooh is it Slither Wing appreciation hour? Let me share the set I've been using with a lot of success.

:slither-wing: Slither Wing @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- U-turn
- Morning Sun
- Flare Blitz

I could optimize the EVs a little more, but you get the general idea. Dropping close combat seems weird, but you get way more value out of bug + fire. Think about it, what does fighting hit super effectively? Dark types, who are hit by bug. The steel types in the meta are not weak to fighting, like Goldilocks, Scizor, Corviknight etc. What are they all hit by instead? Oh yeah, flare blitz!

Boots + morning sun gives you a lot of longevity. First impression + slower u-turn (well, mid-speed u-turn) is pretty neat. Tera fire is great because it flips its fairy weakness to a resist while also boosting flare blitz damage.

Also Slither Wing is floofy so your team automatically gets a morale boost from its existence
 
Anyone know some reliable switch ins to annihilape that can remove it without losing a ton of health? Assuming it could open with drain punch or bulk up. I know dondozo is the main one but looking to see if there are other options.
Personally, the most reliable way to answer Annihilape is with Taunt, especially when it didn't have any Raging Fist stacks yet.
If you are able to stop him from using Bulk Up without directly damaging him, he's kinda passive enough that you can do anything in his face.

Grimmsnarl for example limits him to one turn of boosts, sets up Reflect while switching out to whoever else to set up (be careful about Parting Shot because of Defiant though)
Even running Taunt on Corviknight can be viable if you have trouble with Annihilape, over Defog usually because it sure ain't getting Defog off when cheese man is on every other team, just be careful to manually switch out instead of using U-turn

For more niche options, you can always go for SubDisable Gengar or Dragapult if you are into that kind of thing.
 
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Has anyone tried a specs Toxtricity set with boomburst volt switch and overdrive? It seems like it would be usable at the very least.
 
Personally, the most reliable way to answer Annihilape is with Taunt, especially when it didn't have any Raging Fist stacks yet.
If you are able to stop him from using Bulk Up without directly damaging him, he's kinda passive enough that you can do anything in his face.

Grimmsnarl for example limits him to one turn of boosts, sets up Reflect while also blanking his Bulk Up buffs with Parting Shot.
Even running Taunt on Corviknight can be viable if you have trouble with Annihilape, over Defog usually because it sure ain't getting Defog off when cheese man is on every other team, just be careful to manually switch out instead of using U-turn.

My personal favourite is actually Taunt + DD Gyarados. You blank his boost with Intimidate, Taunt as he tries to Bulk Up, and get at least 2 DDs while they make a futile effort to Raging Fist you for 25% or switch out. If he refuses to switch out, just boost until you are ready to Tera Flying and delete his team.

For more niche options, you can always go for SubDisable Gengar or Dragapult if you are into that kind of thing.
Taunt on corv is a really good suggestion, I think ill try that. Thanks.
 

Finchinator

-OUTL
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OU Leader
the "overused viability" needs to be updated.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/generation-9-overused-viability-list.3711170/

palafin and iron bundle have been banned meaning that they don't belong in the list any more.

and some pokemon in that list see next to no play since they have next to no niche in OU.
who uses toxapex any more?ever since it lost knock off and scald it is nearly useless and completely outclassed by clodsire.
also I don't know about doubles but nobody uses klefki in singles.

and let's not forget iron jugulis, this thing is bad.

abomasnow may not be great but its access to snow warning+ aurora veil gives it some niche as a low budget alolan ninetails(it still is not as good unfortunately).
We will have a full VR in the next week, just be patient and it’ll be all rectified
 
I totally get wanting to preserve mons if we can, but we would be kind of lying if we said its rage fist what deserves a ban, and not annihilape.
It just feels like preserving Pokemon is never considered whatsoever, and in a game where (quite frankly) there are a lot of Pokemon you see way too often, more variety seems like it'd be more important. You can not seriously convince me that Houndstone, Dracovish, or Annihilape are genuinely broken outside of their moves, and it'd be pretty easy when playing with friends to have a gentleman's agreement to just not use the problematic moves on those Pokemon. I completely understand that it's how Smogon has always done it and it's likely not going to change, but there being precedent for something doesn't suddenly make it the best course of action, and I'm not going to pretend like I don't think it's silly just because it isn't going to change and it's always been like that.
The overall response has been a little too reactionary for my liking and I would like people to think more about the implications on how we approach banning in general because we need to be consistent and if we're going to change what we do it should be for more reasons than "people don't like not playing with X pokemon".
Reactionary is the last word I would use to describe it. It's mostly people who seem to not like the way Smogon handles bans on Pokemon that are only broken because of a specific, avoidable aspect and who don't agree with that being how it should be. Most people tend not to take "it's always been this way and we don't want to change it" as a very valid reason for decisions that impact them. I get that Smogon has an image/reputation and changing the way they go about bans after having done it this way for so long it'd be a bad look or something (another thing I think is incredibly silly), but I don't think there's anything wrong with me or anyone else having a problem with the way things are done or the reasons we get for not liking the way things are done.

Anyway, I know things are probably never going to change with the way Smogon goes about bans, was mostly just cranky about it last night as my sleeping meds kicked in and typed my initial rant before passing out. Sorry about that :eeveehide:
 

Éric

mons is mons
is a Pre-Contributor
in a game where (quite frankly) there are a lot of Pokemon you see way too often, more variety seems like it'd be more important.
variety is (most of the times good), but more pokemon available absolutely does not mean more variety in any way shape or form. look at idk adv ou, which is a way more diverse metagame than most of the metagames afterwards, which do have many more mons available. take sm on the other hand, where there are way more mons viable than in most of the other metagames, and many people think (or thought) that it was a bad metagame because of that very reason. also, variety doesnt only come in the form of more mons, sometimes (most of the times actually) it comes in the form of different sets for each mons or different team archetypes, which means variety in the way you use the same mons. and thats not a bad thing, quite the opposite in fact.
and yes, obviously dracovish is not broken without the move, but neither is arctovish even with it, so the problem is clearly dracovish as a pokemon. same w the other ones, some which i already explained in taht post
 
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