Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

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People always sat on Ribombee IMO, so it's good to see people jumping on it as a genuinely useful addition to teams.
idt it was ever slept on necessarily as it and shuckle (RIP) were generally the best webs setters. It's just that Ubers is the only tier where webs have remained relatively consistent as a playstyle across time (and last gen people used slurpuff over it there)
 
People always sat on Ribombee IMO, so it's good to see people jumping on it as a genuinely useful addition to teams.
I had the privilege of using Ribombee in lower tiers where it's sticky web support was more of another tool in its utility belt. From stun spore to trickaroo to quiver dance to even u turn, it can do a lot against not steel types with moonblast/bug buzz/psychic coverages as well. Really miss aromatherapy though.

Though I just realize, Shield Dust stops additional effects. Ceaseless Edge's spikes are additional effects. Does that mean Shield Dust stops Ceaseless Edge spikes from coming on? Yeah 60/60 defenses isn't doing much even with the resist but for suicide lead considerations does it stop Ceaseless Edge spikes?
 
I had the privilege of using Ribombee in lower tiers where it's sticky web support was more of another tool in its utility belt. From stun spore to trickaroo to quiver dance to even u turn, it can do a lot against not steel types with moonblast/bug buzz/psychic coverages as well. Really miss aromatherapy though.

Though I just realize, Shield Dust stops additional effects. Ceaseless Edge's spikes are additional effects. Does that mean Shield Dust stops Ceaseless Edge spikes from coming on? Yeah 60/60 defenses isn't doing much even with the resist but for suicide lead considerations does it stop Ceaseless Edge spikes?
No, it only affects things happening to itself as a pokemon, rather than the field or the opposing pokemon. It won't stop Ice Spinner's terrain removal or Fiery Dance's effects either. unfortunately, this also applies to mortal spin's hazard removal, although it does stop the poison. It's similar to mold breaker if you know how that works.
 
Shield Dust is Covert Cloak as an ability. If it’s blocked by Covert Cloak, then it’s blocked by Shield Dust. Makes you wish more good Pokémon got Shield Dust, doesn’t it?
Shield Dust and Compound Eyes are absolutely incredible abilities that people seldom acknowledge because they're usually seen on mediocre early-game Bug-types like Ribombee, Vivillon, and Galvantula. They're among the most impactful abilities in the game in theory, though, and a LOT of good mons in OU would become much better if they got one of these abilities.
 
Shield Dust is Covert Cloak as an ability. If it’s blocked by Covert Cloak, then it’s blocked by Shield Dust. Makes you wish more good Pokémon got Shield Dust, doesn’t it?
Kind of wish a bunch of things just didn’t have game altering secondary effects, and not rely on rare abilities or item which does nothing else that is also consistent.
It’s honestly a love hate relationship.
You love hax prevention, yet its so weak and rare.
 

KamenOH

formerly DynamaxBestMeta
Was this directed at me? Come on dude watch this Bronzong performance
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1809546484-wb691bzeew6v93k4eifnzsq491lp0w4pw
If you think that's not based and poggers idek what you talking about
Like, people praise that players win with pachirisu in worlds in such a creative way but then say it is a disaster if you have to run shitmons to check stuff
Some recent Bronzong gaming, due to my little hiatus I couldn't test zong in bloodmoon meta but my friends did
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1954159703-1c9tlybr23tee7bl6ku9zmxbrlnu1ahpw
Apparently, a new niche is good when its already part of the meta, but when its a mon rising up, its bad. Whats the difference between Pachirisu and Bronzong? Theyre both niche picks to counter what's meta, and shook things up in the process.
Anyways thats why i think the average smogon player just doesnt like change. I dont either tbh.
 
Apparently, a new niche is good when its already part of the meta, but when its a mon rising up, its bad. Whats the difference between Pachirisu and Bronzong? Theyre both niche picks to counter what's meta, and shook things up in the process.
Anyways thats why i think the average smogon player just doesnt like change. I dont either tbh.
Disregarding that Pachirisu was a VGC example and that is pretty wildly different since you aren't obligated to bring it to every game, so you're not necessarily hurting that badly if it simply doesn't match up into the opponent, Pachirisu was also an off metagame call. It didn't "counter" things, it brought utility and very specific qualities for the team that used it. There's a reason it almost hasn't popped up at all since that famous example.

Bronzong isn't comparable because it's 6v6, you're actively running a bad Pokemon you have to always use and vs any non Luna team, it sucks. And heck a good Luna player can just abuse its presence anyways. It's not niche. It's just not viable at all.
 
Like, people praise that players win with pachirisu in worlds in such a creative way but then say it is a disaster if you have to run shitmons to check stuff
i'm genuinely not sure if you're capable of processing this, but there is in fact a difference between the two. the guy who i forgot the name of used pachirisu but he didn't have to. pachirisu was not required as a check to something. teams were effectively required to run otherwise niche things like blissey or straight-up unviable things like bronzong to check bloodmoon, which is why people were more upset by that than by some guy winning with a pachirisu.

also, bronzong didn't even actually check bloodmoon. it could switch in, get set up on, and die while bloodmoon goes tera poison to sponge its useless-ass body presses and moonlights away the teeny tiny amount of "damage" bronzong thinks it can do. that's what happened to every bronzong i came across during my reqs run. i notice that you cleverly cherry-picked replays where bloodmoon wasn't present because you want to hide the fact that bronzong doesn't actually check bloodmoon. nothing checks bloodmoon. you lost. get over yourself.
 
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Disregarding that Pachirisu was a VGC example and that is pretty wildly different since you aren't obligated to bring it to every game, so you're not necessarily hurting that badly if it simply doesn't match up into the opponent, Pachirisu was also an off metagame call. It didn't "counter" things, it brought utility and very specific qualities for the team that used it. There's a reason it almost hasn't popped up at all since that famous example.

Bronzong isn't comparable because it's 6v6, you're actively running a bad Pokemon you have to always use and vs any non Luna team, it sucks. And heck a good Luna player can just abuse its presence anyways. It's not niche. It's just not viable at all.
Didn't Se-Jun Park specifically state that Pachirisu's inclusion on his team was done to counter the huge influx of Electric and Flying mons in VGC at the time? Hence the use of Follow Me.
 
also, bronzong didn't even actually check bloodmoon. it could switch in, get set up on, and die while bloodmoon goes tera poison to sponge its useless-ass body presses and moonlights away the teeny tiny amount of "damage" bronzong thinks it can do. that's what happened to every bronzong i came across during my reqs run. i notice that you cleverly cherry-picked replays where bloodmoon wasn't present because you want to hide the fact that bronzong doesn't actually check bloodmoon. nothing checks bloodmoon. you lost. get over yourself.
CM Bronzong with Psyshock does check Ursaluna-Bloodmoon. It is extremely, extremely niche though and not a good set, and if IIRC, that Bronzong in the replay was CM, Psyshock, Protect, Body Press, which does check it.
 
Thoughts on AV Slowking (Johto) right now? I’ve been laddering with Joeking and it’s been putting in some work (~1800 elo). Playing around with this set:

Slowking @ Assault Vest
252 HP / 136 Spa / 120 Spd
Careful Nature
- Future sight / Psychic
- Scald
- Flamethrower
- Ice beam

Joeking comes with a few useful perks over the more typical AV Glowking. A better Gliscor matchup thanks to no ground weakness and an easier time slotting ice beam. Scald punishes Gambit switchins more effectively than Glowking can. Defensively, a water typing helps against Wake. I don’t see a lot of Enamorus anymore, but it deals with the occasional CM tera ground much better than Glowking.

Of course, there’s also a share of drawbacks to using AV Joeking:
- Can’t absorb T Spikes
- No reliable way to hit greninja.
- Generally poor matchup against Waterpon.

Any thoughts welcome.
 
CM Bronzong with Psyshock does check Ursaluna-Bloodmoon. It is extremely, extremely niche though and not a good set, and if IIRC, that Bronzong in the replay was CM, Psyshock, Protect, Body Press, which does check it.
ok, i admit it: at the cost of doing anything to any other mon ever, that set does technically check all the standard bloodmoon sets. of course, if that set were to ever get popular enough for bloodmoon users to factor into teambuilding, out come the roar sets, or ghost tera blast to murder it then and there. we didn't even reach bloodmoon's full potential and it was still one of the most broken things ou has ever suspected
 

bludgeoning angel

Banned deucer.
nothing checks bloodmoon. you lost. get over yourself.
I do want to point out that technically Neutralizing Gas Weezing holding an Air balloon and going tera ghost would completely wall most every BM set since neither of it's STABs could hit it. It can't do anything back to BM but it at least blocks it's attacks lol.
 

Karxrida

Eventide (art by @kzhjp)
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Ive seen some very ban happy posts, but we need to be realistic. We don’t have much more time for tests before The Indigo Disk. We have time for maybe one more test. We should let the meta settle so we can focus our energy in the most effective direction. Is the best focus looking at Gholdengo? Kingambit? Waterpon? Valiant? Manaphy? It’s way too soon to say what the best course of action is. We should let the meta settle for a few weeks so we can target the most productive test.
I've said this before, but a Gholdengo test should probably wait until DLC2 when we get back Excadrill (I think this was confirmed?) and potentially regain Defog as a TM. People have also pointed out that we also have like 3 overbearing Spikes setters that are too consistent at their jobs that might be worth looking at instead.

While I think Kingambit needs to go, it's too soon to retest. It survived a democratic vote just last month, and we can't just throw it back on the chopping block right away for the sake of our system's legitimacy. We need time and/or a drastic shift (i.e. an overwhelming survey response with a large sample size) of some kind. And who knows, we might get lucky and something in DLC2 will keep King in check. (Last point isn't really an argument, just a possibility.)
 
I've said this before, but a Gholdengo test should probably wait until DLC2 when we get back Excadrill (I think this was confirmed?) and potentially regain Defog as a TM. People have also pointed out that we also have like 3 overbearing Spikes setters that are too consistent at their jobs that might be worth looking at instead.

While I think Kingambit needs to go, it's too soon to retest. It survived a democratic vote just last month, and we can't just throw it back on the chopping block right away for the sake of our system's legitimacy. We need time and/or a drastic shift (i.e. an overwhelming survey response with a large sample size) of some kind. And who knows, we might get lucky and something in DLC2 will keep King in check. (Last point isn't really an argument, just a possibility.)
This is the datamined dex for DLC2.

1696755963289.png

Be interesting to see what of the returning mons will make an impact in the meta.
 
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Soiramio3000

Banned deucer.
This is the datamined dex for DLC2.

View attachment 559218

Be interesting to see what of the returning mons will make an impact in the meta.
do you have a link to the whole datamine?

do we know anything about new moves/balance changes that will come with it?

also where are the paradox pokemon that got announced and that evolution to duralodon?

several of the pokemon you mentioned are already available, does that mean that they will be buffed in the new dlc or it simply means that they will be found in other areas of the game?
 

MaahirMomtaz12

I COULD BE BANNED!
I've said this before, but a Gholdengo test should probably wait until DLC2 when we get back Excadrill (I think this was confirmed?) and potentially regain Defog as a TM. People have also pointed out that we also have like 3 overbearing Spikes setters that are too consistent at their jobs that might be worth looking at instead.

While I think Kingambit needs to go, it's too soon to retest. It survived a democratic vote just last month, and we can't just throw it back on the chopping block right away for the sake of our system's legitimacy. We need time and/or a drastic shift (i.e. an overwhelming survey response with a large sample size) of some kind. And who knows, we might get lucky and something in DLC2 will keep King in check. (Last point isn't really an argument, just a possibility.)
Excadrill is confirmed from leaks but there's no confirmation of a Defog TM
 

MaahirMomtaz12

I COULD BE BANNED!
do you have a link to the whole datamine?

do we know anything about new moves/balance changes that will come with it?

also where are the paradox pokemon that got announced and that evolution to duralodon?

several of the pokemon you mentioned are already available, does that mean that they will be buffed in the new dlc or it simply means that they will be found in other areas of the game?
The new Pokémon aren't in that Dex because Home doesn't have them yet
 
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