Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

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I think it's crazy that in Gen 9 OU people are actually viably using non-OU pokemon, how did something slip through the cracks of Game Freak's impenetrable HO filter
you’re surprised like former ou staple and s rank uu pokemon tornadus therian finding viability in OU because generation nine is one the most power crept generations we’ve ever seen and hyper offense is the best playstyle, thats whats really crazy

pokemon outside the ou tier can always be good if they have what it takes to fit on some playstyles, amoongus is uu and its considered A- which is on the same level (if not higher) as many ou mons like corviknight, zapdos, walking wake, enamorus and greninja because it has useful qualities like high hp, regenerator and being able to counter most ogerpon wellspring sets

i really don’t mean to degrade or attack you, but generation 9 isn’t so chaotic to the point where being ranked uubl means you‘re b rank at best yet
 
going to go off gut feeling here, dont think Koko or what it (assuming it comes back) brings to the table will be banworthy, could potentially push valiant over the edge since it gets the speed boost for 5-8 turns while actually being able to run an item. moth is fine

and now for some Koko rambling: if it doesn't get good physical stab I don't think a physical set will be worth running due to wild charge being dogwater. a special tera ice set could work, definitely nowhere near as useful as hp ice but it has merit
 
The thing with Koko for me is that Torkoal, Ninetales and specially Pincurchin suck ass in a variety of ways. Besides A9T and Rilla (and it's close), all weather/terrain-setting mons are carried by their abilities. Koko would be enabling Quark Drive offense and be a very serviceable above average mon in one slot. Then again, think of the Future Paradoxes. Booster Val is so contentious all the time. Moth is carried by Booster. Iron Hands would rise again no doubt. Shit, things like Leaves and Jugulis could be way more viable.
 
I don't think Tera Blast will really affect Koko all that much, at least not more than other Tera Blast users. Dazzling Gleam is hitting most OU ground-types for super effective damage anyways, barring Lando-T and maybe Ursaluna. In the DLC, I could see Gliscor / ursa-BM maybe coming back, so Tera Blast would be nice for those two ig and it does also hit Grasses for Super effective damage, but Teraing Koko just for SE damage seems like very high opp cost, similar to Tera'ing Sandy Shocks. Booster mons being strong in E-Terrain goes both ways too. Enemy Valiants or Moths will be big threats to Koko teams.
 
Can you guys help me? I want to upload a leak that Centro LEAKS did about the new Tera type but Idk how to put it in the spoilers section, otherwise you can simply go to their profile and upload the tweet spoilered.
 
I thank so much Red violet blue for helping me.
As I said, Centro LEAKS uploaded a tweet where they told the Japanese name of the new Tera, or 19th type as many people say, with also what seems to be its English name. Take what I say with a grain of salt since can be also fake or wrong, but if it's still about only the name of it then we should be fine.
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I realize that it isn't DIRECTLY comparable, but would that not lead to action on those who become broken like Valiant or maybe Moth? We killed Baxcalibur instead of A!Tales and Sneasler
Moth would not become broken. It's not even close to it now. Valiant is more questionable but really, the best terrain Valiant sets are specs to slice through offense while still wallbreaking well. And specs isn't exactly broken. Also we killed bax and Sneasler because they're the component that were broken.

I thank so much Red violet blue for helping me.
As I said, Centro LEAKS uploaded a tweet where they told the Japanese name of the new Tera, or 19th type as many people say, with also what seems to be its English name. Take what I say with a grain of salt since can be also fake or wrong, but if it's still about only the name of it then we should be fine.
Not to be rude, but stuff like this should go in the scarlet and violet leak thread. It's not relevant to us (especially since it's not official and centro isn't a leaker so don't trust them)
 
Titans of Gen 9 OU so far

Last year, a series of articles I really liked was released talking about the "Titans" of Gen 8, basically the 10 most iconic or important Pokemon of a particular tier throughout its lifespan in Sword and Shield. So recently I was thinking about what would be the Titans of Gen 9 OU so far as we approach what seems to be the beginning of the final chapter of Scarlet and Violet.

So to start off, there are five Pokemon that I think absolutely have to be included:
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Great Tusk
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Kingambit
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Gholdengo
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Iron Valiant
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Dragapult


Each of these five have consistently been on the best Pokemon in the tier ever since the game launched, they each are able fulfill multiple roles on a team and excel at doing so. Also each of these mons have been able to adapt to the changing metagame through the release of HOME and DLC1.


The next group are Pokemon that have top tier picks for an extended period of time but don't have the same longevity as those above either due to being banned, being added partway through, or just falling off as more Pokemon were added.

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Baxcalibur
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Chien-Pao
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Cinderace
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Dragonite
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Garganacl
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Gliscor
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Iron Moth
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Roaring Moon
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Samurott-Hisui
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Slowking-Galar
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Sneasler
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Ting-Lu
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Volcarona
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Zamazenta
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Zapdos



And this final group is made up of Pokemon that were good for a long time but haven't quite broken through to that A+ tier of excellence, very good for a short amount of time, or just simply haven't been around in OU long enough for me to feel comfortable putting them higher.
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Amoonguss
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Annihilape
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Azumarill
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Blissey
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Chi-Yu
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Clefable
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Clodsire
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Corviknight
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Cyclizar
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Dondozo
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Enamorus
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Espathra
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Garchomp
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Glimmora
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Greninja
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Hatterene
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Heatran
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Landorus-Therian
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Manaphy
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Meowscarada
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Moltres
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Ninetales-Alola
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Ogerpon-Wellspring
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Orthworm
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Ribombee
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Rillaboom
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Skeledirge
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Torkoal
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Toxapex
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Ursaluna-Bloodmoon
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Walking Wake

- - -

So those are my "tiers" for what I think would be the Titans of OU after a year-ish. Are there any mons you think I overrated or underrated? What would your top 10 look like?​
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but Koko hasn't been confirmed in the next DLC2, so why are we talking about it?
Not officially but leaked

Adding my two cents on the Koko discussion, I think it'll fit well into the meta and am somewhat skeptical of it making anything broken, by virtue of the fact that Sun doesn't make any Protosynthesis users broken. If Wake and Tusk aren't broken in Sun, and Roaring Moon's so-called brokenness was because of lack of counterplay with or without sun, I don't really see Koko bringing Valiant over the edge. Life Orb will presumably be bad as it's not a great item overall. Expert Belt is a good item but I don't see a 20% boost to super effective moves bringing a Mon from the perfect picture of an OU Mon to a banworthy level. "It's banworthy with expert belt" is lowkey a hilarious statement. Specs will be strong and fast, but it's locked into a move... I see electric terrain becoming a real archetype and Koko being a relatively splashable (if not a bit frail) pivot that makes 2 great Pokémon even better. Pivot Moth (a set I really like) being able to get the quark drive boost sounds pretty nice. Koko will probably be a nice feature on BO for sure and maybe balance squads. Let's look with an open mind and not kneejerk to "nooo any buff to a strong Pokémon will bring it directly to Ubers"
 
Probably the same reason people in this thread think there's a snowball's chance in hell of Darkrai dropping: delusion
It literally was leaked though, was everyone who saw the leak delusional? Or the leaker themself?

I don't really see a reason not to test darkrai at the beginning of DLC1 even if it does end up being broken
 
Friendly reminder that Centro Leaks is not a leaker. They have no sources or access to privileged information and just randomly post things they find elsewhere without even bothering to confirm whether it's true or not. They've even posted stuff from these very forums that was obvious speculation as if it was fact in the past. No need to give this fraud more attention, and anyway this isn't the place to discuss leaks and rumors
 
Anyone else kinda like Iron Treads rn? I’ve been using a speed booster set with Earthquake/Knock Off/Rapid Spin/Stealth Rock and it’s been putting in reasonable work with role compression (namely hazards, spin, and pult/fairy switch-in).

Main pros booster treads has over tusk are better matchups against lead ribombee and glimmora (blocks mortal spin), hatterene is afraid to bounce your hazards, balloon gholdengo will have a harder time OHKOing treads after chip since you resist make it rain, and you can get a one time switch-in to pult and fairy spam.
 
Honestly a lot of things is broken not because they can be broken by themselves, but because they can choose their checks and counters based on Tera Type. The main problem with this s*** is it are f*** imprevisible. If you know your opponent has a tera fire serperior(Not an actual example but all starters will be there in the DLC II so it will be an example soon), most likely you'll answer with something that beat the tera fire serperior, but you don't know until it terastalize. If you're aware that your opponent has for example, an Tera Ghost Ursaluna, you won't be fooled by an suprise tera when you're going to fake out to stall TR turns.. At same line, if you know that opponent is running tera dark on Kingambit, you can click an fight type move with Iron Valiant knowing an switch out is forced. However on those situations you can't do those plays under the current meta because you can't know the tera types and trying to predict that is very risky.

However if the tera is banned, this gen perishs away. I think an trial can be made to Tera. Not ban it, but makes it Open sheet, like in VGC(All tera types would be revealed). On Gen 6 UU they opened a separated ladder where Scald was banned so people could see if the UU was better without the move, why not open an OU ladder with tera type reveal, for a month, and people vote if prefer the meta with Hidden tera or Reveal Tera?


Anyone else kinda like Iron Treads rn? I’ve been using a speed booster set with Earthquake/Knock Off/Rapid Spin/Stealth Rock and it’s been putting in reasonable work with role compression (namely hazards, spin, and pult/fairy switch-in).

Main pros booster treads has over tusk are better matchups against lead ribombee and glimmora (blocks mortal spin), hatterene is afraid to bounce your hazards, balloon gholdengo will have a harder time OHKOing treads after chip since you resist make it rain, and you can get a one time switch-in to pult and fairy spam.
Gholdengo balloon may run focus blast, my gholdengo use that, and this is immediate KO to Iron threads.
 

Fusion Flare

i have hired this cat to stare at you
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
While we're counting down the days to DLC2, I wanted to share a team that got me moderately high on the ladder.

:ss/barraskewda: :ss/pelipper: :ss/amoonguss: :ss/tornadus-therian: :ss/zapdos: :sv/ting-lu:

Barraskewda caught my eye in the days when Sneasler was running around as one of, if not the only reliable way to simply outrun and OHKO Unburden variants. But even after the ban of Sneasler, I simply found too much enjoyment in those Tera Water Liquidations, Flip Turns, and even Aqua Jets. You only really need Close Combat to smack Wogerpon and make it think twice about trying to hold off your watery assault. Of course, it being able to threaten a block Water moves and return fire with its own is a problem to begin with, but Barraskewda's other teammates can handle this issue. Pelipper is Pelipper, I don't need to explain that I think, though I do enjoy Tera Dragon to mess with the likes of Wogerpon even more.

Speaking of Wogerpon, I kinda need things to keep it from just using my rain against me, and that's where Amoonguss and Tornadus-Therian come in. Amoonguss itself serves as truly absurd role compression for rain in one slot. Woger check, Valiant check, Zama check. Rilla check, the list goes on. I like running Foul Play to keep Gambit off your back, and Tera Water is always useful, but maybe you could go for a Tera that eats up Kowtow Cleave.

Now Tornadus-T is actually the pokemon I enjoyed messing with most. The speed tier is great, for one. Outrunning Ogerpon and other things like Cinderace is an amazing boon, but what I really enjoy is the set used here. When you think of coverage options for Tornadus, you usually think Focus Blast or Heat Wave, not WEATHER BALL. But let me tell you, it's STRONG. So strong, in fact, that I chose to support it with Tera Water and didn't go for any other coverage moves. Sure, you don't snipe Gambit, but you can always mess with it via Substitute, and a fat boosted Weather Ball in the right position. What I enjoy most about this Pokemon, however, is the catch-22 it establishes with Wogerpon. Don't Tera? Get outran and eat a nasty Hurricane. Tera for the SpDef boost? Congratulations! Water attacks are no longer nullified and reduced to a resist. And resists are something Barraskewda can Tera Water and Flip Turn to high heaven on.

The choice of Zapdos over the stronger and faster Thundurus-Therian may surprise some people, but 1) Hurricane is crazy good, and 2) I noticed a glaring flaw in my team in the form of a complete lack of Draco immunities. Now of course, you can see that Ting-Lu is the final member on the team, so Specs Dragapult isn't THAT scary, but I've encountered one too many situations on ladder where I switch in my Ting-Lu on an assumed specs, only to get 2HKOd by CB Tera Dragon Dragon Darts (more common than you think). That left a bad taste in my mouth, as well as the continued irritation of Kingambit, so I elected to make use of Tera Fairy Zapdos. Now you get free reign over Draco Meteors flying around AND can stop Kingambit in a pinch.

Finally, to keep opposing Zapdos away, as well as menacing Ghost STAB from Dragapult and Gholdengo, Ting-Lu is the final member of this team as mentioned. It's standard SpDef Lu, with all the tools to round out the team. Hazards, phasing, Ruination, all that jazz. Now obviously, Kingambit is a pretty big problem, but with Aqua Jet mindgames, Foul Play Amoonguss, Sub on Torn-T, Tera Fairy Zapdos, and Ting-Lu being Ting-Lu, you definitely have outs vs. it.

All in all, I enjoyed using this team, even if the DLC1 meta is kinda shit. But hey, we won't have to deal with it for much longer.

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Friendly reminder that Centro Leaks is not a leaker. They have no sources or access to privileged information and just randomly post things they find elsewhere without even bothering to confirm whether it's true or not. They've even posted stuff from these very forums that was obvious speculation as if it was fact in the past. No need to give this fraud more attention, and anyway this isn't the place to discuss leaks and rumors
In all fairness, I was following Centro when I was 10 and they were discussing the Darkrai event in DPP. They might not be the most reliable source, they might be getting their info elsewhere, but it's a nice hub for that middle place between cart play and beyond. They've done an amazing job imo and deserve some respect specially amongst the spanish speaking community
 
However if the tera is banned, this gen perishs away. I think an trial can be made to Tera. Not ban it, but makes it Open sheet, like in VGC(All tera types would be revealed). On Gen 6 UU they opened a separated ladder where Scald was banned so people could see if the UU was better without the move, why not open an OU ladder with tera type reveal, for a month, and people vote if prefer the meta with Hidden tera or Reveal Tera?
1. it has been stated multiple times there is not gonna be a separate ladder for suspects because it splits the OU player base needlessly.
2. A vote on whether Tera is revealed to the opponent is a nothing burger and a waste of everyone's time, you might as well suspect test shedinja to see if it needs to be banned from SV OU.
3. I think Finch said something about how the second Tera suspect will just be ban or no ban, no "fixes" for Tera like the first Tera suspect.
4. While a decent amount of people would be upset over tera getting banned I doubt most would quit solely because of tera getting banned, if people do quit it won't be enough to "kill" the tier.
 
1. it has been stated multiple times there is not gonna be a separate ladder for suspects because it splits the OU player base needlessly.
2. A vote on whether Tera is revealed to the opponent is a nothing burger and a waste of everyone's time, you might as well suspect test shedinja to see if it needs to be banned from SV OU.
3. I think Finch said something about how the second Tera suspect will just be ban or no ban, no "fixes" for Tera like the first Tera suspect.
4. While a decent amount of people would be upset over tera getting banned I doubt most would quit solely because of tera getting banned, if people do quit it won't be enough to "kill" the tier.
For point 2, there is some mons that are broken with one tera. But majority of them, is broken because you can pick your counters based on the tera type. Some mons runs like, 5 tera viably. Is a complete guessing game. Just naming some: Dondozo, Gholdengo, Great Tusk, Meowscarada, Manaphy....
Also the community is very divided by the Terastalization. There is no majority. Also, the first tera discussion wasn't interrupted by DLC I?
Imo, i'd prefer tera restricted with Open Team Sheet rather than banning it. And a main problem in case of ban, is basically a reset on OU, since half of the Ubers would have to be retested.
 
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3. I think Finch said something about how the second Tera suspect will just be ban or no ban, no "fixes" for Tera like the first Tera suspect.
That sounds like a bad idea, at least for people who want Tera fully banned. Most people did want Tera to stay in some form. Yeah they did want some action, but it was just 59% and most people did want Tera Preview while far less wanted outright ban on Tera. And you know if no action Tera can win a battle royal by the skin of its teeth, it can win a 1v1 against full ban.
 
1. it has been stated multiple times there is not gonna be a separate ladder for suspects because it splits the OU player base needlessly.
2. A vote on whether Tera is revealed to the opponent is a nothing burger and a waste of everyone's time, you might as well suspect test shedinja to see if it needs to be banned from SV OU.
3. I think Finch said something about how the second Tera suspect will just be ban or no ban, no "fixes" for Tera like the first Tera suspect.
4. While a decent amount of people would be upset over tera getting banned I doubt most would quit solely because of tera getting banned, if people do quit it won't be enough to "kill" the tier.
yoooooo same hat, build up my dude
Ultimately though any tera decision making will definetly be influenced by the ramifications of whatever this new tera type is and what it's capable of. I disagree on the second point though, shedinja is such a niche case and ultimately irrelevant to any serious SV discussion, as it is deadass not in the game and never will be. Tera preview has done alot for vgc, and I think it should be seriously considered as an option before outright culling the mechanic. I do agree that banning tera won't kill the tier though, that's asinine. People play comp mons because it's comp mons, not because of gimmicks, and while it can be argued that tera is part of what makes SV have a unique identity, its only one facet of that identity If anything, I'd say hazards and powercreep are what define gen 9 the most, not tera, but that's another thing entirely
 
Honestly, Showdown already has open team sheet implemented for VGC, why not also implement it for Smogon singles too?
A lot of Pokemon are arguably too strong now because they could be multiple different sets you need to answer immediately and said sets can cover a wide range of Pokemon, such a Manaphy having Tail Glow and Take Heart sets. If Tera is bad because of psuedo randomness, then why not solve that psuedo randomness with open sheet, which also solves the psuedo randomness of movesets and items?
 
Honestly, Showdown already has open team sheet implemented for VGC, why not also implement it for Smogon singles too?
A lot of Pokemon are arguably too strong now because they could be multiple different sets you need to answer immediately and said sets can cover a wide range of Pokemon, such a Manaphy having Tail Glow and Take Heart sets. If Tera is bad because of psuedo randomness, then why not solve that psuedo randomness with open sheet, which also solves the psuedo randomness of movesets and items?
That's what i'm suggesting. But not full Open team sheet, just open sheet for the tera types.
 
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