Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

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:Empoleon: walls all Speed-boosting Wakes, and is a pretty decent scout for spatk-boosting sun sets - you pivot to something like Glowking or Clodsire on a balance/bo team. it's not a hard counter but it's a safe switchin.
This relies on the idea that empoleon will be viable. I'm not entirely sold on that.

:Heatran: this is a weird one but with Clef, Alolatales, Fezant and Monke, i think Tran will gain usage which can severely limit Wake's options on Specs sets.
In what universe does Heatran "severely limit" wakes options on specs sets. I also doubt Heatran will increase much in usage. It still has the same problems as before of hating how spikes heavy the tier is with so little removal options.

:Ninetales-Alola: :Pelipper: Both Snow and Rain are now much better, interrupting Sun from being kept up for the entire game
You know wake doesn't need sun these days right? It also works well on rain.
 
I'm excited to try Ogrepon as I'm a fan of gimmick mons and this one actually has the stats to make its gimmick work. I think the fire mask may struggle due to being SR weak and not being able to use HDB but the +1 Tera Attack boost is nice especially on sun teams where it can abuse Solar Blade and fire typed Ivy Cudgel.

The water mask seems like a solid option as Water Absorb will make it one of the safer switch ins against the reintroduced Scald and it can stop Flip Turn shenanigans from the likes of Alomomola. The +1 Sp.Def boost from Tera is decent but not as crazy as the boosts the other forms get.

Rock mask may get use as a spikes lead as it gains Sturdy and with hazard removal looking more difficult this meta, it might end up being a solid niche. It also gets the bonus of having a strong physical Rock move with perfect accuracy.

Base form has the luxury of using other held items but will face competition from Meowscarada as a speedy Grass type. It does have some things going for it over the cat such as better bulk and a higher attack stat as well as Tera giving it a free Choice Scarf boost without being locked into a move. Throw on a Choice Band and you'll have a mini G-Darm :zonger: (but not as scary)

Personally I think all forms will be UU with small niches in OU on certain team styles but I'm looking forward to trying them in standard play regardless.
 
here's some various ogerpon calcs:

+2 252 Atk Ogerpon Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 510-600 (99.2 - 116.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

+2 252 Atk Ogerpon Superpower vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 172-203 (43.1 - 50.8%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers

+2 252 Atk Ogerpon-Cornerstone Ivy Cudgel vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 216-255 (54.1 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Ogerpon Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 242-288 (48 - 57.1%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Ogerpon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 298-352 (78.8 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Ogerpon-Cornerstone Ivy Cudgel vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal: 350-414 (102 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Ogerpon Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 440-522 (101.3 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Ogerpon Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 368-434 (84.7 - 100%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 2 layers of Spikes

I'm not saying he's perfect. I'm saying there's potential
I like Ogerpon, and think it has great potential. My favorite is the Hearthflame, grass-fire is good typing and the attack boost from embody aspect can increase the power of this Mon to high levels.
Also, did you just misgender Ogerpon
 
This relies on the idea that empoleon will be viable. I'm not entirely sold on that.



In what universe does Heatran "severely limit" wakes options on specs sets. I also doubt Heatran will increase much in usage. It still has the same problems as before of hating how spikes heavy the tier is with so little removal options.



You know wake doesn't need sun these days right? It also works well on rain.
1. Emploeon might not be viable? But with Roost, Flip Turn, Knock Off, and a good defensive typing, I think it will find a place in the tier, especially if Wake gets to an unhealthy level like Avira predicted

2. It gets momentum anytime Wake doesn't click Hydro Steam. Paired with a good Water resist/Water Absorb mon, it forces predictions from the Wake user which otherwise wouldn't be present.

3. Yes, but I feel like if someone wants to ban Wake it's probably because of the Sun set, where it feels most restrictive. You can see this with high ladder usage stats where Torkoal was its partner 49.5% of the time last month, whereas Pelipper wasn't even listed, somewhere below 9.25%. I think that's because whilst rain sets are good, they feel more manageable in the builder, because BB Gren is the bigger threat in rain that you're already forced to prepare for.
 
I like Ogerpon, and think it has great potential. My favorite is the Hearthflame, grass-fire is good typing and the attack boost from embody aspect can increase the power of this Mon to high levels.
Also, did you just misgender Ogerpon
mb g I thought it said 100% male lol

also, ogerpon is like the new castform (kinda) except for hail
 
Some fun questions to get us started off. Also while we're at it, try to stay on track and avoid too many 1-liners and such. If you plan on memeing, I expect only the highest quality of memes from you all. Have a fun one

1. If I forgot/missed anything or if you think I should anything to the first 2 posts, feel free to share
2. What are you excited for most?
3. What are your expectations regarding hyper offense?
4. What are your expectations regarding bulky offense?
5. What are your expectations regarding balance?
6. What are yuor expectations regarding stall?
7. What former OU mon(s) are you expecting to plummet to UU or below?
8. Which mon(s) if any do you believe will get banned by the end of the month?
9. Is Knock Off enough to save Tyranitar from falling to UU?
10. Did you enjoy the Teal Mask DLC? Either way, I hope you enjoy the new changes for OU and have a nice day
  1. i think you're fine but i also think the forum fucks up numbered lists if i don't include a number 1 so i'm just typing something here
  2. the thing i'm most excited for is WIND RIDER SHIFTRY BABY LET'S ACTUALLY FUCKING GO
  3. i expect hyper offense to cool off a bit, considering that baxcalibur and iron valiant are virtually guaranteed to be banned, a lot of new hazard removal was added, some key defensive mons like clefable and gliscor came back, and some other defensive mons like alomomomomomola got some really nice additions to their kit. on the other hand, we now also have several new sweepers and wallbreakers and a bunch of new weather nonsense, plus sticky web ribombee, so ho does get some new toys to play with
  4. bulky offense is a pretty big winner here. although hazards will likely be easier to deal with thanks to the top-tier ou threat of tidy up furret as well as other options like galarian weezer (not changing that autocorrect back, it's too funny), mandibuzz, and possibly even shiftry, they've gotten some new setters too, and we also have a bunch of new knock off mons and bulky setup sweepers—tyranitar is both now!
  5. balance really likes the new hazard removal options, especially galarian weezing, which is one of literally two things that can defog in gholdengo's sparkly expensive face. i think it's still going to struggle to find much of a foothold here though
  6. stall is fucking back babey! clefable has two fantastic abilities for stall, umbreon got toxic back, and most importantly, alomomomomomomomomomola can now do slow wishpasses off of its base 165 hp and it gets scald. mandibuzz returning with toxic, knock off and defog is also nice. i'd mention gliscor here, but it did lose roost, which will probably force it into a slightly more aggressive role than it's historically played. i don't think stall will be dominant, but it's definitely not dead anymore
  7. not fucking garchomp, i can tell ya that! …more seriously, i genuinely think that lando-t risks hitting uu (for only a single month) because of new toy syndrome—during the first couple weeks, virtually everyone will replace him with gliscor. i also think heatran might be on the way out, and possibly cresselia, since neither of them got any notable buffs and they were pretty low already
  8. baxcalibur should get banned before the end of the day. no mercy, get that shit out. iron valiant is probably getting the boot too, since it now gets stab priority and knock off. manaphy might also be too much this gen, but we do have several unaware mons and plenty of viable anti-rain tech, so we'll just have to see how things play out
  9. knock off will bring it back to ou for at least a month, and it's definitely not dropping below uu ever again
  10. i haven't actually played it yet because i'm currently over a thousand miles away from my switch
 
I want to see it as well. I was thinking about it recently and am happy to see others feel the same way. Darkrai will be strong, but is it really going to be that busted? Are there really not things that are arguably better in the tier already? Darkrai is certainly worse than flutter mane, and only has 80 Bp dark pulse. It has great coverage, but I think it’s worth a try. Maybe I’m just a Darkrai Stan
 
I think a Baxcalibur suspect test is NEEDED over a Baxcalibur quick ban. I'll be the first to say that.
yeah i agree so i can get my badge

Anyways, lots of theory crafting, a core of something like :ninetales-alola:, :baxcalibur: and :alomomola: would really test the limits of Baxcalibur/Screens legaility. Wish allows Baxcalibur to come in multiple times a game, as well as a steel resist. Screens from A-tails increases the special bulk of the normally lacking special defence of Alomomola and Regenerator and Wish helps with the core's hazard weakness. And once teams are chipped down, forget about checking them Baxcalibur is already bulky enough but with Tera, forget about checking it. It becomes Kingambit at this point. You give it one turn of setup, you get into the defensive mon/scarfer then it teras and gets another turn of setup. Also, it now gets Scale Shot!!
 
:bw/alomomola:
ALOUMOUMOULA
Alomomola @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Scald
- Flip Turn
- Wish
- Protect


So last month Alomomola got about 3% usage and now it can fill the teleport shaped hole in our hearts and burn away our tears with it's gentle scalds. Big wishie fishie is maybe going to be OU, heck yea.

Anyways, lots of Baxcalibur and lame offensive Pokemon talk going on, let's talk about if the new Alo will be able to spread its fins and contribute in different teams formats, that is to say do you think it will *do* enough to fit on BO or Balance teams? There are plenty more Knocks to absorb and a few more big physical hitters to burn and now it comes with such a valuable slow pivot, will it break that 4.52% mark, how high can it climb in the VR once things settle?​
 

StupidFlandrs48

World’s sweatiest casual
is a Pre-Contributor
Hey, I've never really participated in the "chaotic primordial soup" phase of a metagame before, I was still new-ish to Showdown when SV came out and the launch of that meta kinda scared me off. How do you guys like to approach these fun but volatile times? (I'm not someone who plays SV OU much in general)
 
Honestly could okidogi be any good in OU? Seems like its being undersold at the moment. Sure its weak to tusk, Definitely seems like it has a ton of potential even with being walled by tusk due to its great coverage, intimidate blocking, and status spreading. (Plus guard dog can allow it to mess with ting lu if its running air balloon)


Just thought I bring this up because it feels like people are underselling okidogi quite a bit
 
Hey, I've never really participated in the "chaotic primordial soup" phase of a metagame before, I was still new-ish to Showdown when SV came out and the launch of that meta kinda scared me off. How do you guys like to approach these fun but volatile times? (I'm not someone who plays SV OU much in general)
Either abuse brokens before they're gone or play a tier that's (relatively) less affected by the new changes
 

CTNC

Doesn't know how to attack
I was just going to lurk, but no one brought this up so far. Original Ninetales gained Healing Wish as an Egg Move. Does that give it enough of a niche to consider using over Torkoal? I know Torkoal is probably better most of the time anyway because of Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin. I just think it'd be neat if both Drought Pokemon ended up being viable. Also, how much worse would Baxcalibur be if Alolan Ninetales got Healing Wish too? :P

you and everyone else who fell for the "power creep means we should unban ubers" meme
Zamazenta says hi. Then again, it's the Pokemon took Kyurem-B's title of most pathetic Cover Legendary and managed to easily keep that title even after gaining Body Press.
 
:bw/alomomola:
ALOUMOUMOULA
Alomomola @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Scald
- Flip Turn
- Wish
- Protect


So last month Alomomola got about 3% usage and now it can fill the teleport shaped hole in our hearts and burn away our tears with it's gentle scalds. Big wishie fishie is maybe going to be OU, heck yea.

Anyways, lots of Baxcalibur and lame offensive Pokemon talk going on, let's talk about if the new Alo will be able to spread its fins and contribute in different teams formats, that is to say do you think it will *do* enough to fit on BO or Balance teams? There are plenty more Knocks to absorb and a few more big physical hitters to burn and now it comes with such a valuable slow pivot, will it break that 4.52% mark, how high can it climb in the VR once things settle?​
I plan to replace Protect with Whirlpool, it looks like a very versatile mon.

Didja know that if you Mirror Coat a Volt Switch, you'll murder the Gholdengo that is often the tag in? The fish has options, is all I'm saying.

So she's a trapper, a burner, a knock recipient, the ever famous wishpasser...and a slow pivot, which i vastly come to appreciate.
 
YOOO BAX WILL FINALLY GET BANNED LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOO
On the downside, 3 new 4x bug resists for my boy Lokix :((((((((((

.
.
.
OR SO YOU THOUGHT!!!!
YOU SEE THIS?
:sv/Lokix:
Screenshot 2023-09-13 at 9.58.53 PM.png

THAT'S RIGHT, BRO HAS 2 STABS
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Dark Lokix Throat Chop vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Okidogi: 208-246 (65.6 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Dark Lokix Throat Chop vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Fezandipiti: 284-336 (89.5 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
MOLTRES? HAHA DONT MAKE ME LAUGH
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dark Lokix Throat Chop vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Moltres: 188-222 (49 - 57.9%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
LOOK OUT OU, ITS LOKIXING TIME
 
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