Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

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I have a good question to ask. Why are people in this forum complaining about hazard control. Do people forget we have hdb or something lol. I mean I run hdb not only Cinder but Tusk, Sinistea, Meow sometimes, Ghold, Unaware Clef, Umbreon, Dondozo, Skele, Quaq, Ting-Lu, Even Gambit can run it too if it wanted to like there are plenty of mons in the Ou tier than can afford to run hdb over leftovers without losing longevity. Sure you have your rapid spinner or defogger but don't forget that hdb doesn't take damage from spikes and SR. As long as you play around knock off users then you sure be fine like Gliscor, Dipplin, Ogerpon Hearthstone and Wellspring and Boost energy Paradox mons are mons that take knock off well. Just helping people if they are worried about hazard control.
 
I have a good question to ask. Why are people in this forum complaining about hazard control. Do people forget we have hdb or something lol. I mean I run hdb not only Cinder but Tusk, Sinistea, Meow sometimes, Ghold, Unaware Clef, Umbreon, Dondozo, Skele, Quaq, Ting-Lu, Even Gambit can run it too if it wanted to like there are plenty of mons in the Ou tier than can afford to run hdb over leftovers without losing longevity. Sure you have your rapid spinner or defogger but don't forget that hdb doesn't take damage from spikes and SR. As long as you play around knock off users then you sure be fine like Gliscor, Dipplin, Ogerpon Hearthstone and Wellspring and Boost energy Paradox mons are mons that take knock off well. Just helping people if they are worried about hazard control.
The fact that you feel the need to run Heavy Duty Boots on these pokemon, of which only a couple are actually weak to rocks, is itself the problem.
You just... shouldn't have to do that, in a healthy metagame. Or so that's the onerus of the people who complain about hazards.
 
I mean I run hdb not only Cinder but Tusk, Sinistea, Meow sometimes, Ghold, Unaware Clef, Umbreon, Dondozo, Skele, Quaq, Ting-Lu, Even Gambit can run it too
implying is normal being almost item locked to hbd, with the dlc knock off, scald and wow come back



so having lefties would really help against status, knock off is like the scariest move in the game because u can't afford to lose hbd and everything sucks more than ever

choice item and life orb are nearly unplayable for this gen, MAYBE the only pokemon i have seen successfully run life orb was mixed greninja bb



another problem the distribuition of moves, so much new hazard setters but no viable spinners and only weezing and maybe mandi as defoggers
 
implying is normal being almost item locked to hbd, with the dlc knock off, scald and wow come back



so having lefties would really help against status, knock off is like the scariest move in the game because u can't afford to lose hbd and everything sucks more than ever

choice item and life orb are nearly unplayable for this gen, MAYBE the only pokemon i have seen successfully run life orb was mixed greninja bb



another problem the distribuition of moves, so much new hazard setters but no viable spinners and only weezing and maybe mandi as defoggers
Speaking of knock-off, I've been messing around with knock off tornadus-t on the ladder since I have not yet, and man knock off makes this Mon the same great offensive utility Mon we remember from gens past. Tornadus-t genuinely feels really consistent again with knock off back in its arsenal, and feels even a bit stronger than it did in previous gens outside of rain teams thanks to bleakwind landing 10% more of the time than hurricane does. Point being, tornadus-t has felt so much better to use since getting knock off back and I would not be surprised if we steal tornadus-t from UU next month or the month after, because tornadus-t definitely feels like no longer an OU adjacent pokemon and now an OU threat again. Crazy what the loss of, and then regaining knock off does to a pokemon...
 
Guys I have been silent long enough, but the truth must come out. Finch is the reason it is only offensive mons getting banned and in the rare scenarios when its not we all know what he voted for them to stay!!1 There is a reason he thought zamazenta-c was less broken then hero, he is proponent of stall (tm). Remember all those times when people said that giratina altered should be tested, it was finchinator on his many alts since he wants more bulky pokemon!! And god forbid lugia returns. He actually hacked himself into gamefreak and gave a bunch of bulky pokemon unaware!!! It is true he is currently using his mind control powers on the rest of the council so they will also support stall(tm) i tried to stop him by hacking away a bunch of moves from blissey but he is tenacious and slammed his head on the keyboard and it became ting lu, a new stall staple! ”But what about the recovery moves” finch actually hacked so only he has their old pp that is why he is good!! We must spread the word! DOWN WITH STALL(tm)! And finch dont even think about deleting this message u conniving snake, i got ya now!!!11 (jk we love u finch :D)
 

Mimikyu Stardust

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A bit late for a response but.

I think Bloodmoon is absolutely broken, on HO, BO, Fat, and ive even seen some on Semi Stall working successfully, he almost ALWAYS get one kill, and playing around it is even more of a hassle than playing around Chien Pao because everything dies to it. Yes its slow but its bulk, Physically, is comparable to Great Tusk and Specially, its comparable to Gastrodon. Absolutely Busted.

Manaphy was a day 1 threat, its Take Heart and Tail Glow sets were amazing day 1 but as the meta progresses, its no longer that powerful. Don't get me wrong, its a good mon but nothing that ou can handle.

Gliscor for me is kinda busted, its so fat and can give so much support with its movepool from spikes, knock, toxic or even swords dance. It glues so many teams together and is spammed everywhere and can shutdown or 1v1 any pokemon without tera. im not sure if its ban worthy but its def the second strongest in this radar, i would vote ban tho if it was suspected.

Ogerpon is not ban worthy at all, while fast, strong and has great defensive utility its nothing we can handle. It's bulk is not that great and it can't carry an item. It brings more positives to the tier than it does negative, any decent player can easily take care of it and makes the most of it.

umm yea, valiant dengo and gambit ARE NOT problems post dlc lol
 
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Been grinding up the ladder in the name of participating, and I absolutely side with banning Blood Moon (ironically, I run regular Ursaluna on my team). Blood Moon destroys basically anything which isn't Rock or Steel in an instant, and Earth Power covers everything else that isn't Corviknight. Add in Calm Mind (which covers it's weaker defense and boosts its already immense Special Attack) and Moonlight for recovery, and it's practically luck if I'm able to kill it in time.
 
Knock and poison heal with immunity to status should be irrelevant. Being annoying in OU should be irrelevant. If this is where the discussion is, then this Mon should have been talked about since x/y days lol.
Having spikes, the bulk to stand up to anything and almost always get 3 layers of spikes up, little to no checks or counters, free 25% back every other turn, beating every hazard remover, and taking immunity to hazards away with knock is irrelevant?

I have a good question to ask. Why are people in this forum complaining about hazard control. Do people forget we have hdb or something lol. I mean I run hdb not only Cinder but Tusk, Sinistea, Meow sometimes, Ghold, Unaware Clef, Umbreon, Dondozo, Skele, Quaq, Ting-Lu, Even Gambit can run it too if it wanted to like there are plenty of mons in the Ou tier than can afford to run hdb over leftovers without losing longevity. Sure you have your rapid spinner or defogger but don't forget that hdb doesn't take damage from spikes and SR. As long as you play around knock off users then you sure be fine like Gliscor, Dipplin, Ogerpon Hearthstone and Wellspring and Boost energy Paradox mons are mons that take knock off well. Just helping people if they are worried about hazard control.
The thing is, you literally can't rely on boots, you can't "simply play around knock users" one because they are EVERYWHERE, and two, it doesn't even matter that they're everywhere, because Gliscor exists, a Pokémon with almost no weaknesses, extreme bulk, rapid healing, and can spam knock for free as you pivot around scrambling to get in something that can actually kill it without half the team getting badly poisoned and 3 layers of spikes going up. Pokémon that rely on boots are simply bad now because Gliscor can knock all day with no consequences
 
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If everyone is freaking out with the hazards, why we dont just ban the hazards /j
That's not as sarcastic as you're imagining. There's largely two opinions on the hazard-heavy metagame: one is that Gholdengo is stifling removal, the other is that there's just not enough decent removal options in the first place.

The latter group regards a Spikes ban as the only thing that would really "fix" the hazards issue, though most who feel that way don't regard it as worth action.
 
That's not as sarcastic as you're imagining. There's largely two opinions on the hazard-heavy metagame: one is that Gholdengo is stifling removal, the other is that there's just not enough decent removal options in the first place.

The latter group regards a Spikes ban as the only thing that would really "fix" the hazards issue, though most who feel that way don't regard it as worth action.
You are missing a key third group, a group that believes that Gliscor, Ting-Lu, and probably Samurott are uniquely stifling Pokémon that can set 3 layers of spikes extremely easily - face it, who lays spikes without the 2 impenetrable walls and the man with the nuclear spikes? Ogerpon-W at the cost of not running another set, Clodsire, uhhhh Toedscruel?

I have gone into my issues with Gliscor several times on this page and Srn and Mimikyu Stardust have made great analyses of the issue this Pokémon brings in the past

Ting-Lu was described very well by Xavgb. I will also say slash paraphrase, this is a top 5 Mon in Ubers, it walls Ubers, like is a blanket check, not a niche unaware matchup dépendant like Skeledirge, this thing is a Giratina, not an OU Pokémon. It gets 3 spikes ALWAYS, can spam Ruination, and sometimes just wins at team preview if it has Rest. The only reason it's not on the radar is its outclassed by fucking Gliscor, who heals without fearing knock off (from gliscor,) and has a similar offensive effect as Ting-Lu but also gets swords dance for some reason?

Samurott is not as egregious as the other 2 imo but ceaseless edge is a move with 0 consequences to click, but with ogerpon around Samurott is not immediately jumping out to me as the worst at this time. I am open to changing my mind as things develop on this. Before DLC this was pretty silly though, a Pokémon with very little reason not to use because ceaseless edge hits so hard with sharpness and it gets that perfect coverage with sacred sword. This thing tore a hole in the team while setting spikes and that was a little much. We'll see if he starts doing this again as the other terrorists of this tier (above + blood moon) are banned
 
face it, who lays spikes without the 2 impenetrable walls and the man with the nuclear spikes? Ogerpon-W at the cost of not running another set, Clodsire, uhhhh Toedscruel?
those three, the other two ogerpons, greninja, meowscarada, garchomp, glimmora, gastrodon, sandy shocks, the occasional klefki or chesnaught, and quite possibly eviolite gligar, which doesn't have gliscor's healing but does have bulk plus the same typing and movepool so it would likely be slotted onto gliscor teams right after a ban
 
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those three, the other two ogerpons, greninja, meowscarada, garchomp, glimmora, gastrodon, sandy shocks, the occasional klefki or chesnaught, and quite possibly eviolite gligar, which doesn't have gliscor's healing but does have bulk plus the same typing and movepool so it would likely be slotted onto gliscor teams right after a ban
Appreciate the enthusiasm but I doubt that Roost-less Gligar would be a viable OU addition
 
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I cannot believe you lied to me Finch! >:(

But if I'm being totally honest, I did hope for this. It's funny -- Ursaluna and it's new Bloodmoon form both were clamored to be Ubers. We all knew how Ursaluna's suspect went, what's to say Bloodmoon won't do the same?
 
I cannot believe you lied to me Finch! >:(

But if I'm being totally honest, I did hope for this. It's funny -- Ursaluna and it's new Bloodmoon form both were clamored to be Ubers. We all knew how Ursaluna's suspect went, what's to say Bloodmoon won't do the same?
Already not the same, since regular Ursaluna was just in the radar, there was never an actual Suspect.
 
I cannot believe you lied to me Finch! >:(

But if I'm being totally honest, I did hope for this. It's funny -- Ursaluna and it's new Bloodmoon form both were clamored to be Ubers. We all knew how Ursaluna's suspect went, what's to say Bloodmoon won't do the same?
Regular Luna never made it to suspect test. All its hype was because of Trick Room, created by Magearna. Blood Moon doesn't have trick room or Magearna. It doesn't need much support.
 
Regular Luna never made it to suspect test. All its hype was because of Trick Room, created by Magearna. Blood Moon doesn't have trick room or Magearna. It doesn't need much support.
that thing is crazy. it clicks cm and moonlight, maybe tera to win a specific match up and boom, blood moon and ep all the way. it's physdef and hp are really high, fully invested 252hp and +252 def can live 2 gambit low kicks (maybe at fallen 3 or smth i forgor).
 
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