Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

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those three, the other two ogerpons, greninja, meowscarada, garchomp, glimmora, gastrodon, sandy shocks, the occasional klefki or chesnaught, and quite possibly eviolite gligar, which doesn't have gliscor's healing but does have bulk plus the same typing and movepool so it would likely be slotted onto gliscor teams right after a ban
how are you going to proc poison heal with eviolite? OU players aren't dense, and know what Pokémon are good. After a Gliscor ban they're just going to start spamming Ting-Lu again, and probably move to Garchomp if that gets banned too, which is a lot more reasonable

What you've got here is a list of spike setters with much larger downsides to running than slapping Gliscor tinglu or Samurott on team, they all match up much more reasonably into the meta than the invincible grounds and all fall into the camps of 1) Pokémon much easier to deny than those two
2) Pokémon whose destructive capabilities are limited by running spikes

the amount of setters isn't the problem, it's two or three specific setters
 
how are you going to proc poison heal with eviolite

this is a list of spike setters with much larger downsides to running than slapping Gliscor tinglu or Samurott on team, they all match up much more reasonably into the meta than the invincible grounds and all fall into the camps of 1) Pokémon much easier to deny than those two
2) Pokémon whose destructive capabilities are limited by running spikes

the amount of setters isn't the problem, it's two or three specific setters
Gligar actually doesn't get poison heal, he gets immunity instead, but his physical and special bulk are better than Gliscor with eviolite. I think it's probably not viable because lack of recovery + lack of damage to really threaten things like Kingambit.
 
Gligar actually doesn't get poison heal, he gets immunity instead, but his physical and special bulk are better than Gliscor with eviolite. I think it's probably not viable because lack of recovery + lack of damage to really threaten things like Kingambit.
Higher stat numbers doesn't necessarily mean "better bulk" if you aren't healing 12.5% per turn. This thing has no recovery at all, and that recovery (and knock immunity which for Gligar is catastrophic) IS gliscor's bulk. No serious player will use anything with Eviolite in the meta where every 3rd Pokémon has knock off

Gligar will become the Sub 1100 ELO Gliscor swap maybe. Or maybe a stunfisk meme. But won't be seriously run by adult OU players while Ting-Lu, Samurott, Garchomp, Greninja, and Meowsc exist
 
my guy has never played a gen where chansey was good
I think in Gen 6 and 7 it has better performance for sponging some Megas better, but come Gen 8 and Blissey was way better when most of the good Knock Absorbers were gone and she had HDB as a good-but-not "I stop working without it" item. The issue is less Knock Off than how feasible it is to stop KO progress, something we definitely don't have much of this Gen, and Chansey was a specific case because it and Blissey have literally the same kit besides one being fatter (depending on Eviolite or no Eviolite), whereas most other Eviolite traps are people slapping the bulk onto Pokemon who are missing several traits of their Evolution.
 
Higher stat numbers doesn't necessarily mean "better bulk" if you aren't healing 12.5% per turn.
Better longevity =/= better bulk. Mathematically, the bulk is better lmao - that said, I'm not sure Eviolite Gligar is gonna be used too much

My guy has never played this gen where Bisharp and Chansey are dogshit
See, now we're moving the goalposts because everything in the fucking game used Knock in XY/ORAS and Chansey was still OU
 
Better longevity =/= better bulk. Mathematically, the bulk is better lmao - that said, I'm not sure Eviolite Gligar is gonna be used too much



See, now we're moving the goalposts because everything in the fucking game used Knock in XY/ORAS and Chansey was still OU
We're not moving the goalposts because this is the SV OU discussion thread not the XY ORAS discussion thread. How is Chansey doing? How is anything with Eviolite doing in OU?
 
for reasons completely unrelated to whatever 1100s-ass nonsense you were saying. if bisharp still had knock off and chansey still had toxic they'd be in the top half of the vr at least
nah man, blissey is better than chansey now because HDB, probably. Neither can run lefties but blissey is less crippled by knock and hazards. See: Gen 8. idk about bisharp tho, at least not while gambit exists
 
nah man, blissey is better than chansey now because HDB, probably. Neither can run lefties but blissey is less crippled by knock and hazards. See: Gen 8. idk about bisharp tho, at least not while gambit exists
chansey's still better, don't believe the boots propaganda and learn how to hazard control. and if bisharp got knock off, it would be ou because gambit would have been banned by now
 
:sv/brambleghast:
Brambleghast @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Wind Rider
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 240 HP / 140 Atk / 112 Def / 4 SpD / 12 Spe
Impish Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Strength Sap
- Poltergeist
- Spikes/Power Whip/Doesn't really matter lol
Allow me to introduce you to Brambleghast! I haven't been testing much, but this has potential. As a spinner that can ohko ghold and has okish bulk thanks to strength sap. 140 atk evs lets bramble guarantee an ohko ghold and 4 spd evs for guaranteed living scarf make it rain and 12 speed evs to hit 219 and guarantee outspeed all the base 50s. I put the rest of the evs into hp and defense.
 
:sv/brambleghast:
Brambleghast @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Wind Rider
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 240 HP / 140 Atk / 112 Def / 4 SpD / 12 Spe
Impish Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Strength Sap
- Poltergeist
- Spikes/Power Whip/Doesn't really matter lol
Allow me to introduce you to Brambleghast! I haven't been testing much, but this has potential. As a spinner that can ohko ghold and has okish bulk thanks to strength sap. 140 atk evs lets bramble guarantee an ohko ghold and 4 spd evs for guaranteed living scarf make it rain and 12 speed evs to hit 219 and guarantee outspeed all the base 50s. I put the rest of the evs into hp and defense.
Strength sap my beloved I’ve ranted in the past about that move
 
1695916699270.png


just so that this isn't a silly meme post, i doubt that gligar would have much relevancy because its so much more prone to being worn down compared to gliscor, i can't see any real reason to use it over, say, ting-lu or meowscarada or samu-h, but it would be funny to be proven wrong, a world where gligar is an ou tier mon would be a fun one to live in.

anyways, i'm curious what people think the best mons in the tier right now are currently, barring the ones on the radar who are obviously very good given they've ended up there in the first place.

also before anybody asks, here's the template in case you want to use it, quality isn't the best cause i just grabbed a screenshot from a video on youtube showing off a silly okidogi bug
1695916926776.png
 
the amount of setters isn't the problem, it's two or three specific setters
How Ghold warps the meta is the ONLY reason for this. The mon itself isn't broken but it's existence shifts the entire meta way too drastically towards offense. The dynamic between hazards, boots and knock would be far more balanced if Ghold wasn't around.

Mandibuzz+Corv+Tusk+Treads+G-Weezing...etc are more than enough on the defensive side to keep hazards way more in check. It's not about the setters.
 
As the resident lurker "Pro-ban, ban-happy, change change change 25/8", I'm happy to see the suspect going out for UrsaBlood.
I'm also just chiming in to see more people talking about a possible suspect on hazards.
Personally, I think that we should be talking about the numbers.
Yes, this is the "Death of Stall" meta (don't actually quote me on this), with HO everywhere, breakers for daze, recovery nerfed, tera bypassing checks/counters, and some other move distribution, like defog, being... wonky (Although a nurse pokemon like Chansey never should have learned Toxic to begin with).
Personally, I'm actually happy to see Gliscor thriving (I'd say thriving, there's a lot of talk about the Cooler Ground/Flying type). I think that hazards are innately warping. You basically need them, need a way to remove them, or need to itemize against them (Praise HDB).
That sounds like a stranglehold to me, as it's been like this since at least gen 4 (I personally despise SR with every fiber of my being). Maybe even gen 2 (I know spikes + whirlwind existed, but I didn't play way back then, so I'm not really "in the know").
The problem with removing hazards is the "Revolving Door of Pokemon". As much as I hate hazards (and believe me, one of my favorite pokemon is Vespiquen, who sucks and dies to Stealth Rock), it's meant to be a punish for constant swapping. As you all know, swaps and double swaps are obviously fundamental to pokemon, so a little bit of chip is meant to go a long way.
Right now though, I feel like that chip is doing MORE damage than actual attacks and strategy. Between GholdenJoe and a lack of viable hazard removal, the only real answer to hazards is HDB, which restricts the options available to pokemon in the metagame.

I'm jumping the gun, of course, because we're just starting a Good Suspect on a pokemon that... I look at it like Dracovish (i love this abomination). It's not the fastest, but it just eats things alive that it shouldn't. It's also surprisingly(?) bulky, has Super Scrappy, and a "Better" stab-boosted "Hyper Beam".

While I don't want stall to die a horrible, miserable death, I think there needs to be more... innovation. I keep thinking back to niche things like AVPex, which is easily my favorite innovation "meta call" this generation. I think there are plenty of new roles and ways that the meta and all of the playstyles can grow and evolve once some of the clear issues are resolved.
 
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