surprised unbanning deoxys-N isn't brought up more, even as just a meme. Im not for it at all, but its one of those historically bad ubers like lugia or Solgaleo so Im surprised that like absolute no one wants it here
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Gouging Fire is banned]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
People, stop talking about Uber drops. I’m 95% sure those tweets are purposely misleading as a joke. Either that or the 4% chance the council is saying, “ Fine! Let’s give those Uber to OU players everything they want!” But I doubt that. Then there’s that 1% chance the council is totally serious and think these Mons are balanced…….
Because it was brought down one time and it destroyed the tier (that was in Gen 6).
Though you are right, I am a bit suprised it hasn't happened, though its probably because some people complain about Deo-S, so a better version of that might be too much in their eyes. For some reason that's where they draw the line.
Tera normal E Speed go BBRRRRRRR
1. It was brought back in Gen 6 and bullied the tier so hard it wasn't even funny
2. The thing is an offensive powerhouse, unlike Lugia who is a do-nothing blob and Solg who is really just a pivoter. Lando-I is not up for discussion.
yeah I completely forgot about that. I guess that's a fine reason for why no one wants it. It has been a while since then, but its still definitely too strong for the tier
Sogaleo I 100% doubt is dropping considering Clef almost got nuked out of IoA OU last gen before crown tundra dropped due to cracked it was with teleport being a huge part. Sogaleo would not be okay in any sense. I think Lugia might be okay and might not destroy the tier like people say but that is mostly because of the flaws that lugia has and there mons in the tier that can stop it from taking over games after two calm mind boosts like Gouging Fire, Gambit, and trick Darkrai as examples of mons that can be a real issue for Lugia down here, not to mention knock and hazard spam that is frequent down here!
+2 0 SpA Lugia Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 16 SpD Gouging Fire: 248-292 (59.9 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
72 Atk Gouging Fire Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Lugia: 124-147 (29.8 - 35.3%) -- 23.6% chance to 3HKO (removed multiscale)
Okay, gouging isn't take two hits.
252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Tera Dark Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Lugia: 248-292 (59.6 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 0 SpA Lugia Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Dark Kingambit: 136-160 (39.8 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 0 SpA Lugia Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 272-320 (79.7 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Nope, gambit ain't taking the hits. It has to predict correctly with the sucker punch mindgames, otherwise its screwed.
+2 0 SpA Lugia Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darkrai: 129-152 (45.9 - 54%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lugia: 144-170 (34.6 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (removed multiscale)
Yeah, darkrai is not taking two hits. Fun fact, 0 evs scarf lugia is one point faster than darkrai.
So no, lugia is not balanced.
I'll just link this post. It's a very detailed post about why lugia would be bs in the tier.
Of all the the suspects that have happened, this one I will finally vote in. Archuladon I didn't care for. Kyurem I wanted to remain. But Volcarona, I want that thing banned. I hate this Pokemon so much, I would say it's even worse for the metagame than Kingambit and that's saying a lot. The amounts of sets which I will list here
- Tera Grass Giga Drain: Bypasses Prim and Defensive Water (Rare)
- Tera Dragon Tera Blast: Destroys all hope of you poor dragonite using multiscale (Somewhat Common)
- Tera Ground Tera Blast: The most horrid that destorys gking, heatran, gouging, skeledirge, clod, and even more. (Somewhat Common)
- Substitute + Swam over Flame Body: Destroys Gking as per usual (Rising but still rare)
-Tera Water Tera Blast: Does everything ground does but now you resist water instead of being weak to it still (Somwhat Common)
- Tera Fairy: Makes every dragon type shakes in their boots (Common)
- Safegaurd: this more of a silly set, but still stops ways of checking it via status (Never seen ever)
The sheer amount of unpredictability and unhealthy presence it has on the building is just insane. I do see the argument saying it's tera reliance, which is honestly valid. Although unlikely, I will be happy to see what people opinions are once the suspect opens up and see if they alter my mind in any way.
Wasn't Deo-N more broken than Deo-A in OU when the two of them got banned?
True, but sheer force, life orb boosted attack just hit like a nuke. Basically like a choice set without being restricted to one move. Kyurem can be a busted wall breaker as well, but it needs specs to do so often, and once locked into a move, you can play around it much easier and lando.
Here is the issue, you need 2 calm minds to get those calcs which means you will already have taken a good amount of damage most likely in practice leaving you open when you go to click recover
It's a fucking Lugia, the first hit does nigh nothing, and unless both hits were SE, the second one likely barely tickles the bastard.
Here is the issue, you need 2 calm minds to get those calcs which sounds easy on paper with Lugia’s bulk, but it is 2 turns of calm mind in practice which means you will already have taken a good amount damage most likely or given a pokemon an oppurtunity to mess with it via trick taunt, or brute force. Point being it takes a little more effory to actually start those sweeps in practice than it would seem. Remember in this meta a lot can go wrong with taking two turns to set up
I don't think it was a joke based on how the council members have responded both here and on the chat room on showdown. Also, based on the super small sample on the room tour, solgaleo was a fancy paper weight except for wp which went 1 for 1.
To get back on track, what's everyone's thoughts on gliscor? I've seen some rising sentiment about it possibly being problematic. I feel like it's fine since SD and utility sets share counters but, the checks for both variants are very different which lets it make great progress and knock off makes going hard into something like wake or kyurem a very risky endeavor. I also do believe that out of all the pokemon that consistently pop up in the problematic discussion, the only one that would cause a more drastic shift in the meta if removed is kingambit just because both of them function as glues as much as they do other things.
No offense and I don't mean this to be rude, but what is your obsession with Lugia? It feels like you're REALLY invested in wanting it in the tier for some reason.
is very good in UUbers...as a defensive pivot that comes in, clicks knock off, then teleports out. If we're talking strictly about the way it is generally used in UUbers rather than theorymoning breaker sets (Trick Room anyone?), then it's very arguably not broken even by OU standards. I could see it being too good but it's within suspect test territory imo, unlike palafin and lando-I which are pure trollBecause I want to see it suspected because I genuinely don’t think it would be as overwhelming as some people think
The post above me already said this, but what damage is it going to take? Not a lot can go wrong. Of course you are not going to switch into a dark type. That's just dumb. But what else is doing damage to it.
168 Atk Choice Band Tera Fire Gouging Fire Raging Fury vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Lugia in Sun: 402-474 (96.6 - 113.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
Again, without multiscale. Multiscale means that you will always have one boost, and then the next will most likely be very achievable. Again, this is just dragonite but way bulkier. And yes, dragonite has e-speed, but lugia has a much higher speed (110 btw, same as waterpon) and much, much higher defenses. I could list calcs all day that show how busted it is. With max hp and max defense investment, it has a chance to live a +2 tera dark 5 allies supreme overlord booster sucker punch from kingambit. Why is that not unhealthy?
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Tera Dark Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Multiscale Lugia: 372-438 (89.4 - 105.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
Isn't that insane?
But you seem especially invested in Lugia specifically for some reason. Like whenever people try to start the uber drop discussion (for pete's sake stop bringing the topic back up and derailing discussions please) you pitch it. Why you care about Lugia specifically over any other mon.
I actually had no clue what personal stuff even meant till i had to google delusional, then I found out it had the word had implications to mental health. I'll say sorry heatranator it wasn't my intention to ever imply anything along those lines, but I refuse to admit I'm in the wrong other than thag, he is obviously being petty and holding a grudge against me and accusing me of indirectly calling him out. Hello, I haven't logged on for a week prior to this and there are so many posts??? Why is he acting as if the world revolves around him???
Also, I've said it before I'm not a native English speaker and I learnt most of it in school if not playing many online games over the years like dota runescape ffxiv overwatch and interacting with other players from said games from both the Asian and na/eu region people flame each other all the time like words like these gets thrown around all the time and nothing happens, not sure what makes this game so special the moderation is so strict. Not to mention I literally just mute everyone when I do play showdown games these days in case someone does try to grief me be it by gameplay or whining about hax and then when I retort they're so soft to report me and get me muted for literally everything.
I'm good I don't want to login to these forums anymore and subject myself to such strict and uncalled for imo moderation. Not to mention people here converse in such formal English like it's some business setting and some of my points, which I think some of them are legit vali but just get shot down because my English ability is lacking. What happened to gamer lingo huh???
Bye.
Not really? It does nothing back unless you commit to tera fighting tera blast or something, and tera blast is already its own hotly debatable issue which is arguably broken in itself...
+2 0 SpA Lugia Aeroblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Dark Kingambit: 226-267 (66.2 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Keep in mind this is tera dark, this would deal half as much to base gambit and essentially let it use it as setup fodder.
Lugia tanking a hit from +2 Kingambit doesn't mean anything if its mediocre offensive stats let gambit get up to +4 anyway.
I feel like dropping an uber however brief would at least give everyone something new and fun to try, you could do it on a separate kind of ladder, i simply think if enough people are up to try then why not, people have had the calcs and discussions with zamazenta and darkrai and neither are broken. Eventually we will reach the point of power creep where lesser ubers become fine in OU, perhaps it’s now.
+2 0 SpA Lugia Earth Power vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 272-320 (69 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 0 SpA Lugia Earth Power vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fairy Kingambit: 136-160 (34.5 - 40.6%) -- 54.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
It does do a lot to kingambit, it still four hit kos, though it has a good chance to 3hit ko. The calc is moreso to show how unbelievably bulky Lugia is in that it can take a super effective, stab, +2 tera'd with a 50% multipler on top of that and it still has a chance to not get ohko'd. That's so unbelievably bulky.
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Tera Dark Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Multiscale Dragonite: 231-272 (59.8 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This is dragonite for reference. It's doing about 67% of the damage its doing to lugia. Reminder that lugia is weak to sucker punch.
Lugia has such unimaginable bulk, that it will always be at +1 at worst, and +2 is the normality, due to the fact that most hits bounce off it.