Waterpon seems scary under rain after a Swords Dance boost.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Kyurem banned]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Darkrai is debatable, as is Kyurem (Kyurem needs to go though in my opinion). Considering even the council is split on Kyurem and Darkrai with Lily and Ausma along with some others being in the no ban camp for darkrai and finch and some other council members being in the ban camp. Those suspects are up in the air with exactly how they would go considering how split people are on both mons. Darkrai and Kyurem are not clean cut bans as people seem split on them. (Moreso darkrai despite it having a little more support from what i'm seeing with people being split on it but you get the idea.)
Testing Ubers is something that does not hurt, even if it is not desirable as we can just get the Ubers quickbanned or suspected if worse comes to worst.
It's not a necessity but if something has a chance of being fine it should be tested is how I see it as if it isn't we can just quickban and or suspect. Don't see why it's an issue even if kyurem and roaring moon debatably should not have been freed.
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Could you send me a link to the room? I was searching one in this page but I got nothing.
you're right, the community has been pretty good about that. which is why i think we should trust their decisions to ban these things in the first place
I agree with that at least, I think a test is fine but I'm not quite sure based on the Mon itself and how I've seen it played that it'll do much other than be another name in a sea of them. I'd take anything that shits on Gambit though so technically I'm fine with it.
I suppose I lean more on "I think the metas fine but a few bad apples exist that are all constraining everything else" more than anything. So the idea of another bad apple being added to the batch isn't very appealing, so to speak. It'd definitely at least be more interesting than some other ubers to me though lol.
People fighting tooth and claw against mons getting suspected yet being happy to drop ubers into the tier on a whim will never not be funny.
It's really not on a whim. There is one current Uber - Palafin - with any (public) council support for testing, along with clear reasons being given for why it might be fine, and for the potential value it could provide and role it could fill. CTC strongly supports re-testing Volcarona, but he's just about alone in that view, and nothing else has a high level player championing it.
Everyone who has responded to the "Which five Ubers would you drop?" question has noted that no, they wouldn't actually support testing all five. At most there's been tepid suggestions for Zamazenta-Crowned and Lugia, with no top players speaking up for them to rally support for a test.
It's fine to unilaterally oppose a drop, but it only hurts your position to misrepresent the opposing viewpoint.
Everyone who has responded to the "Which five Ubers would you drop?" question has noted that no, they wouldn't actually support testing all five. At most there's been tepid suggestions for Zamazenta-Crowned and Lugia, with no top players speaking up for them to rally support for a test.
It's fine to unilaterally oppose a drop, but it only hurts your position to misrepresent the opposing viewpoint.
There aren’t five whole Ubers being discussed for retests and even discussions that are happening aren’t likely to take effect in the very immediate future.
All of those Pokémon are here because a significant amount wanted them to drop. (Yes they were voted down by council votes, no this does not invalidate this point. These Pokémon were still largely requested to be tested down before their votes, which is why they were voted on to begin with.) All of them are still here because, at least as of now, they haven’t received significant support for their bans, and there’s a significant chance that one or all of them will not ever receive the support they need for a ban this gen. Moon wasn’t even on the last survey, for example. Most people still want it around, and to act like your own opinion on their tiering is inherently more correct than people who disagree with you is super dismissive.
Maybe this is just a difference in personal tiering philosophy here, but doesn’t the existence of three Pokémon even you agree deserved to be unbanned prove that bans need to be looked at from time-to-time? It’s not like we can’t just re-ban things like we have been doing when necessary, meanwhile we potentially gain multiple metagame additions, sometimes even healthy additions to lower tiers like Deo-D.
I’m not trying to be rude or offensive, so let me rephrase: when you say that “the majority of unbans have been a fucking disaster” without addressing the fact that a majority of the Ubers unbans have actually stayed in the tier and not gotten re-banned, it comes off disingenuous since there was no attempt whatsoever to acknowledge the surrounding context of why your opinion might be unpopular. Obviously you can still feel this way if you feel that these Pokémon are still problems, but again, that’s just an opinion you personally hold that the wider community does not, and no one person should be able to dictate tiering policy.
While this is still technically a matter of opinion, I just can’t accept the idea that any system of rules that doesn’t open itself up to the possibility of self-evaluation ever under any context is a well-designed set of rules, be that in politics or silly children’s games. If you don’t think something should be unbanned, then just make your case for why that Pokémon shouldn’t be unbanned as opposed to just throwing out blanket opposition to the very concept of unbanning Pokémon in general. As much as it’s annoying how “we should unban Solgaleo” talk tends to derail the thread, these kind of blanket attempts to shut down conversations like these every time they come up no matter the context, situation, speaker, or argument ALSO derail the thread with, in at least my personal opinion, unnecessary vitriol.
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Let Kibo and JUST ONE GALATINA start in SV coward.. why are you handicapping italy for no reason, if those two start they will know how to beat palafin without even having to think. They both have won SPL 3 times.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/rate-my-team.52/
Also feel free to DM me whenever if you want some tips
Interesting how a key tenet of the ban process is not to predict a future meta and a key tenet of unbanning ubers is to predict a future meta...hmmm....hmmmm....
The teambuilder does not need more constraints.
The teambuilder does not need more constraints.
Nah, unbanning Ubers is focused on if there are enough checks and counters to something in the current metagame. Obviously people will add their own flavor and stances to any arguments, but the official stance remains the same conceptually across both
Not sure Palafin will drop or not, but I wouldn’t worry about it overlapping with WCoP (and likely not OLT laddering phases). Don’t think we are that close to anything like this yet
WCoP metagame will likely remain the same in terms of legal Pokemon
This isn't theorymoning in your book? The reason I thought we brought Darkrai down was because there were enough checks and counters in OU and now it's on the precipice of a suspect test. 1 ban in volc and all that theorymoning went out the window.
It’s closer to theory than we would like, but there’s no perfect solution there for any retests. The point is you focus on if there’s enough perceived counterplay and then in a retest ladder it would be allowed to put it into practice.
To me that just sounds like you agree with my original post without wanting to say you agree unbanning mons is mostly theory - you're fine to agree or disagree with that, i've made my point and it's the last thing i'll say on it to save us both time.
You can think it “sounds like” whatever you want, but you would be wrong.
It would be a retest, which is voted on in a similar fashion to a suspect test by the public
The council will ultimately decide if anything is worthy of a retest and what it is, but we wouldn’t just drop things into OU on a whim
MIMI WANTS TO UNLEASH THE DEMON YOU AIN'T READY
As much as I'd like to see Palafin test and would support giving it a shot now- I know it has a better shot in a tera blast ban meta with volc and eleki both back.
I do think enough conversation has been generated to warrant a new survey.. not 3 months later.. direction appears too unclear to proceed in any direction at the moment.
I do think enough conversation has been generated to warrant a new survey.. not 3 months later.. direction appears too unclear to proceed in any direction at the moment.
the results of the last survey came out exactly two weeks ago. we don't need another one this soon
im pretty sure we've had more discussion since then, than we did leading up to it from the moth ban. Shit was dead here. Some things being discussed weren't on it. Darkrai barely has enough concern. That survey was a nothingburger. I just think we should check back in before proceeding. Maybe you'll have been right and enough people got haxxed by flinch freeze and poison that more will want darkrai gone like you said right? Or.. Maybe something else will be shown as more important to voters...