Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [NEW TIERING RESULTS POST 11597]

It's true that Kingambit pretty nicely walls Pecharunt normally, but that means it'll be very confidently going for the SD and expect you to pivot out with Parting Shot.

Tera Fighting with Tera Blast punishes that.

252 SpA Tera Fighting Pecharunt Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 460-544 (115 - 136%) -- guaranteed OHKO

If it decided to immediately terastal out of its typing, into something neutral to your STABs like Flying?

252 SpA Tera Fighting Pecharunt Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Tera Flying Kingambit: 57-68 (14.2 - 17%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Tera Fighting Pecharunt Malignant Chain vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Tera Flying Kingambit: 144-171 (36 - 42.7%) -- 94.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

That's not a roll you want to lean into, especially since both Terablast Flying and Iron Head will kill you, but it's a pretty solid hit and has a 50% chance to mess Kingambit up with Toxic + Confusion. At the very least it's not a disaster, and it did rely on Kingambit immediately using its tera, which it probably doesn't want to do.

Oh wait, it's Fairy? Kingambit gets DUNKED ON because Malignant Chain turns into a SE hit.

252 SpA Tera Fighting Pecharunt Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fairy Kingambit: 57-68 (14.2 - 17%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Tera Fighting Pecharunt Malignant Chain vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fairy Kingambit: 288-342 (72 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

86.2% minimum, so even without hazards it's in range of priority or even a weak hit from whatever you have left that can take a Sucker Punch.

Kingambit still has the edge in this matchup, of course, but this is a tech that makes it play very carefully.
 
View attachment 591084
hey guys i know this is irrelevant and super off-topic but today is the first time i break 1500 in any tier and i'm beyond happy, i just wanted to share this with y'all, thank you for the memes and shitposts, they def paid off!

i'll share my team in case anyone is interested, new version with pecharunt, it's kind of toxic spam and do nothing: https://pokepast.es/c210002e41779215
I am proud of you.
 
I just wanna remind people that y'all hated Dire Claw for its RNG mechanics and Maligant Chain is Toxic + Confuse Ray 50% of the time coming off of 100 BP.

It ain't broken, but it's most definitely annoying as hell.
It will be hated for sure, but not as much as Dire Claw. Dire Claw had a 1/6 chance to put you to sleep, which being a smaller chance meant that it's more frustrating in a way.
50% chance to Badly Poison is more so expected, and 1/24 chance to crit is so low you'll rarely see it enough time to get made at it.
20% or so is the "sweet" spot for making a mechanic frustrating. Its common enough where you'll see it often, but not common enough where you can expect and plan for it that well.
 
View attachment 591084
hey guys i know this is irrelevant and super off-topic but today is the first time i break 1500 in any tier and i'm beyond happy, i just wanted to share this with y'all, thank you for the memes and shitposts, they def paid off!

i'll share my team in case anyone is interested, new version with pecharunt, it's kind of toxic spam and do nothing: https://pokepast.es/c210002e41779215
Really happy to see your hard work get you this far. I've seen you posting for a while and I'm glad that you succeeded like this. Savor it, man. And brace yourself to drop just as quickly because fate is cruel like that.

How is Malignant Chain working out? I was kinda worried that the 8 PP would run counter to the goal of stalling.
 
Ya’ll see the Hax team Slainey built? Reminds me of the Quick Claw team from early Fall, but actually using good Pokémon so it isn’t completely reliant on Hax.
 
Really happy to see your hard work get you this far. I've seen you posting for a while and I'm glad that you succeeded like this. Savor it, man. And brace yourself to drop just as quickly because fate is cruel like that.

How is Malignant Chain working out? I was kinda worried that the 8 PP would run counter to the goal of stalling.
Thx man, really appreciate it <3

Sooo to be honest, I feel like Pecharunt is an interesting concept but will fall off at some point. I feel like we all are in ladder trying it out and there are some tweaks here and there and nobody has got it optimized yet. In my experience with it, I can say that the extra damage with MChain is very appreciated, 50% toxic chance is quite high, I don't mind not hitting the toxic due to my team structure and the confusion is INCREDIBLY resourceful as breathing room when offense gets too much for my team. Got one game where poor opposing Tusk got hit in confusion thrice, and another game where my rival didn't bother and switched the minute it got confused. Granted, it would be the same just using Toxic, but thus far I haven't ran into a situation where I would prefer it, as I don't get to the point where PP is lacking.

That being said, even if we are still figuring Pecharunt out, outspeeding Gambit seems imperative, it literally saved me the game twice. The rest of the EVs can gladly go all in Def and HP, SpA and SpD, whatever, but 28 EVs in Speed make the difference.
 
Thx man, really appreciate it <3

Sooo to be honest, I feel like Pecharunt is an interesting concept but will fall off at some point. I feel like we all are in ladder trying it out and there are some tweaks here and there and nobody has got it optimized yet. In my experience with it, I can say that the extra damage with MChain is very appreciated, 50% toxic chance is quite high, I don't mind not hitting the toxic due to my team structure and the confusion is INCREDIBLY resourceful as breathing room when offense gets too much for my team. Got one game where poor opposing Tusk got hit in confusion thrice, and another game where my rival didn't bother and switched the minute it got confused. Granted, it would be the same just using Toxic, but thus far I haven't ran into a situation where I would prefer it, as I don't get to the point where PP is lacking.

That being said, even if we are still figuring Pecharunt out, outspeeding Gambit seems imperative, it literally saved me the game twice. The rest of the EVs can gladly go all in Def and HP, SpA and SpD, whatever, but 28 EVs in Speed make the difference.
I feel like this mon is kinda of a shuffler. It wants things to switch out so it can get a recover off or get more poison on the opposing team. If it had more coverage, this thing could be so much better. MChain is more useful on faster teams who need to force switches, but toxic could be better on longer drawn games. I'm going to test it right now, but it doesn't look too good from the ones I've seen on ladder.
You basically have to have a ghold/gambit counter on your team otherwise it's screwed.
 
Hasn't this always been the case before it came out?
Yeah, I should have probably said that you need to have multiple gambit/ghold counters that can reliably take them down, which is not easy. If they are on the field, good luck using pecharunt, cause it will be mostly useless.

Edit: Thoughts on pain split toxapex? It could help it be less passive as it has such low HP and regen helps it in the unreliable recovery part of pain split, but idk, it doesn't feel like it will be good.
 
Ghold doesn’t switch in at all though given that it dies in 2 Shadow Balls. Gambit for sure, though Tera Blast Fighting helps on sets that can run it.
Tera blast fighting is what I've been running, but you have to run a lot of speed to outspeed ghold. It can get around these counters, but one requires careful positioning and the other requires tera, which isn't the best. I think that it's alright and going to have a niche, especially if those two get the boot, which while unlikely could still happen. Like, this thing looks terrifying without them around.
 
I think as Morkal has said, fast Peach might be the way to go. People expect a stall-y, bulky and slow mon, they will not expect it to hit hard. Even though it really won't do THAT much damage, MChain doing big number + poison passive damage on something would ruin a lot of walls and strategy. Though, in OU I don't think it would be crazy because we have a lot of steel type and a mon that heals on being poisoned.

Some calcs
252 SpA Pecharunt Malignant Chain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dondozo: 178-210 (35.3 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Pecharunt Hex (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dondozo: 229-271 (45.4 - 53.7%) -- 42.2% chance to 2HKO after toxic damage
Hitting Don with Chain then immediately follow up with Hex results in pretty heavy damage on Don and render it useless for taking hit later into the game
 
Last edited:
Man, when is the survey? Gotta rate some Pokemon highly if you catch my drift.

Peacharunt is cute. Messed around with a fully defensive Parting Shot set in low ladder, and it put in some work. Probably not OU material, but it’s always fun to play with Parting Shot.
 
Honestly, people really underestimate just how good Parting Shot is. Its faster than uninvested Gambit and Tusk, so the second they hit the field to check Peach, you just gtfo and now they're minus -1. Even if Gambit SD's, there's a very big difference between being +1 versus +2. Its literally hitting you for 50% less of what it would normally be doing, which is significant. Gambit either has to commit to another SD, risk not OHKOing what it normally would at +2, or switch out.

I was running this set

Princess Peach (Pecharunt) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Poison Puppeteer
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Malignant Chain
- Hex
- Recover
- Parting Shot

1v1's Gliscor pretty well as Hex chunks it for a pretty good amount, and even w/o Air Balloon, it takes EQ surprisingly well. You Malignant anything that's not a Steel or Poison type as you're bulky enough to not be OHKO'd by most attacks, and any of those two types I mentioned, you just Parting to get out (except Mirror Armor Corviknight for obvious reasons). And like I said, with Air Balloon, it works as a pretty effective spin blocker.

It's probably not gonna stay in OU, but it definitely has a niche in this tier. Hell, you can even run Nasty Plot sets to catch your opponent off guard expecting you to be more passive.
 
View attachment 591084
hey guys i know this is irrelevant and super off-topic but today is the first time i break 1500 in any tier and i'm beyond happy, i just wanted to share this with y'all, thank you for the memes and shitposts, they def paid off!

i'll share my team in case anyone is interested, new version with pecharunt, it's kind of toxic spam and do nothing: https://pokepast.es/c210002e41779215
Congratulations man! This gen especially with all the chaos I find it so so important to celebrate little victories- I personally have several screenshots and replay logs on my desktop just like it. Always remember that, at the end of the day, it's just a game, and ELO is just a number: being at 2200 or 1200 are both equally valid as long as you're having fun. I wish you the best of laddering!

Even if Gambit SD's, there's a very big difference between being +1 versus +2. Its literally hitting you for 50% less of what it would normally be doing, which is significant.
Minor correction, you're actually doing about 33% less damage at +1 than +2. You can think of it like this:
100*2 = 200
100*1.5 = 150
200/150 = 1.33
Your point still stands though!
 

MaahirMomtaz12

I COULD BE BANNED!
Pechurant with Mortal Spin would be so nice actually. Compressing poison and Spin in one move is extreme role compression and helps it have moveslots for stabs/parting shot/recover.

this is literally the definition of being outclassed lmao. Would you use emboar when blaziken exists?
also, gholdengo has two things that pechurant doesn't. Better typing both offensively and defensively and a million different sets ranging from choicetrick to setup to defense to air balloon
They're not comparable. Pecharunt isn't a wallbreaker or sweeper like Gholdengo can be. Its main role is to be as annoying as possible by spreading poison and confusion as well as constant stat lowering/pivoting
 
Honestly, people really underestimate just how good Parting Shot is. Its faster than uninvested Gambit and Tusk, so the second they hit the field to check Peach, you just gtfo and now they're minus -1. Even if Gambit SD's, there's a very big difference between being +1 versus +2. Its literally hitting you for 50% less of what it would normally be doing, which is significant. Gambit either has to commit to another SD, risk not OHKOing what it normally would at +2, or switch out.

I was running this set

Princess Peach (Pecharunt) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Poison Puppeteer
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Malignant Chain
- Hex
- Recover
- Parting Shot

1v1's Gliscor pretty well as Hex chunks it for a pretty good amount, and even w/o Air Balloon, it takes EQ surprisingly well. You Malignant anything that's not a Steel or Poison type as you're bulky enough to not be OHKO'd by most attacks, and any of those two types I mentioned, you just Parting to get out (except Mirror Armor Corviknight for obvious reasons). And like I said, with Air Balloon, it works as a pretty effective spin blocker.

It's probably not gonna stay in OU, but it definitely has a niche in this tier. Hell, you can even run Nasty Plot sets to catch your opponent off guard expecting you to be more passive.
Should have Sassy Nature, 0 Speed IVs and HDB. Pecharunt is more than bulky enough to tank Earthquakes and HLRs and you stop being weak to ground after you Tera. Sassy and 0 Speed also means you're gonna be underspeeding more Pokemon, which is important for pivoting. Seeing as you aren't investing in speed to outspeed Great Tusk or Gholdengo, it only makes sense you use min speed to ensure you tank hits for your faster and frailer Pokemon.
 
Okay, so after playing a few games with it, I think pecharunt is alright. It has its struggles, it has to decide between using a more stally set which can get shut down by sub or any fast predictions, or go full out offensive in which case it can't take too many hits due to having to put all it's ev's/nature into it's offenses. I think with the right support, this mon could be great. Magnezone is one partner that could be great for it as it can trap gambit/corv/skarm, or something like rillaboom which can take out bulky grounds for you. It definetely will have a place in the tier as an annoying mon, though I'm not sure if it will stay OU.
 

658Greninja

is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Midnight post!

Today I want to discuss someone important.

Not Pecharunt, but a familiar face.

IMG_2491.png

No not that


IMG_2464.png

This, the OG.

After Galarian Slowking released from Pokemon Home, Johtoian Slowking was left out of the job. G-King’s superior typing and movepool were just better for the metagame overall. However since the tier has gone through several shifts and changes, especially in DLC2, I think it is time to have this discussion. Glowking is better, but like it did in SS OU, could it carve out a niche over its slow brethren? Let’s see what it has to offer?

Scald
Scald was a stupid yee yee ass move from Gen 5-8. Even Game Freak acknowledged this, twice. Nerfing burns so they don’t outdamage lefties recovery, and the biggest one, hugely limiting the distribution of it. Only 22 fully evolved mons could learn it now. Toxapex and Gastro were hit hard by losing access to it. It looked like the Slowtwins were gonna be next considering they were the biggest bulky waters along with Pex in the last gen, but by a divine act of mercy, they kept it.

This is the first main advantage of OGking. Just cause Scald has less distribution doesn’t make it any worse of a move. Its still a STAB base 80 power move with a 30% burn chance, and unlike Mola the other water type pivot, its coming off of a respectable 100 SpA stat. With how common physical attackers like Gambit, Zama, Tusk, and Boulder are, burns are more crippling than poison or para. This also frees up a moveslot for OGking. T-Wave for secondary status, or the new Psychic Noise to deny healing. Gking can run into 4mss due to Sludge Bomb not being the greatest STAB option to solely rely on. Thus it will need something like Toxic, T-Wave, Ice Beam, Flamethrower, or Surf. Johto King being able to offer this sort of utility in one is valuable. Scald is also huge for damaging Gliscor as it doesn’t need to slot in Ice Beam to do any big damage.

IMG_4605.png
IMG_2475.png
IMG_2480.png

Water Resistance
There are two instances where this becomes relevant. Rain, and Walking Wake under Sun. Because of Tera, Barra and Wake can be difficult to answer under their respective weather conditions, even with a bulky resist. To counteract this, teams will often run Gking with a bulky water resist, or Tera their Gking. However these take up resources, whether through 2 teamslots or burning a Tera. J-King can do this without expending resources. Though it is 2HKOd by Barra in Rain, being able to live a hit is crucial for resetting the weather. Due to the introduction of Archaludon and the paradox doggos, Rain and Sun respectively have become incredibly popular on ladder. Due to OGking’s water and fire resistance, it could reset the weather easier than Gking.

244 SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking in Sun: 128-151 (32.5 - 38.4%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Barraskewda Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Slowking in Rain: 262-309 (66.6 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

IMG_5481.png
IMG_2467.png
IMG_8884.png
IMG_5277.png

Ground Neutrality
Not having a weakness to EQ from the six ground types in OU is a big advantage over Gking. While it isn’t a check to Drill or offensive Tusk, not being immediately threatened out by EQ lets Johtoking more freely use FS while being able to threaten said Ground types with Scald (minus Clod lol). Ting-Lu is cited as a bad mu for Gking. Not only does it block FS, but it can use Gking as an opportunity to get up hazards, click Ruination, Whirlwind, or EQ it for big damage.

252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Slowking: 235-277 (59.7 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Slowking: 123-145 (31.2 - 36.8%) -- 77.4% chance to 3HKO

0 Atk Ting-Lu Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Slowking: 139-165 (35.3 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

IMG_2471.png
IMG_2472.png
IMG_8868.png
IMG_5207.png

Other Matchups
Due to resisting Psychic, Johtoking can properly check NP Deo-S and T-Wave it in return. With 52 defense EVs, Johtoking could live a +2 Mighty Cleave and fish for a Scald burn in a pinch. Having a more direct way to threaten Boulder is also worth nothing. Similarly, Johtoking could fish for Scald burns against Dragonite or other physical sweepers while not being weak to EQ. Tran lost Toxic, meaning Classic Slowking could actually properly check it.

+1 252+ Atk Tera Normal Dragonite Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 52 Def Slowking: 207-244 (52.6 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Iron Boulder Mighty Cleave vs. 248 HP / 52 Def Slowking: 331-390 (84.2 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Speed Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 208+ SpD Slowking: 255-302 (64.8 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Now let’s head back to Galar and analyze Gking’s advantages.

IMG_2481.png

Neutrality to Freeze Dry
Kyurem is a goofy ahh mfer, so playing around it both offensively and defensively is a pain in the ass. Glowking’s neutrality to Freeze Dry is big for allowing defensive teams to pivot around Specs Kyu. Running regular Slowking over Glowking may result in you having to use Volc alongside it, but it isn’t the end of the world since Volc is a fantastic mon to run. The point still stands, this is one of the big reasons why Gking is still better than regular Slowking. Playing around Kyu is just that important in the current meta.

IMG_8858.png
IMG_8878.png
IMG_2486.png
IMG_2437.png

Grass Resist
Grass is another big type you should look out for, especially Serp who could snowball out of control, even without Tera. Being able to pivot into Serp and bring in a Specs Pult or Weavile to scare it out could be a difference maker. Gking is not gonna be checking Wogre, but being able to threaten it with Sludge Bomb could make Wogre’s SD attempts less feasible.

IMG_2482.png
IMG_2492.png

Electric Neutrality
Raging Bolt could tear through your defensive cores, and sometimes you’re not gonna have a Ting-Lu or Clod. That is why Gking’s matchup into Rbolt is so vital. Being able to threaten with a Toxic or live a hit and pivot into an offensive threat is another reason why Glowking is such a splashable pick. Archaludon may not be an electric type, but it might as well be with the fact it abuses rain extremely well with Electro Shot. Being able to pivot into it and cripple with T-Wave makes it easier to play around it in Rain.

IMG_8901.png
IMG_8870.png
IMG_4648.png

Other Matchups
While regular Slowking doesn’t mind Toxic too much, Glowking simply has the advantage of being straight up immune to it, and doesn’t give a fuck about weak Surfs. Garg is a huge one, not loving 1/4th of your health is a dealbreaker in the matchup in comparison to its Johto counterpart. While not the ultimate Valiant check (+2 Knock one shots it), immediately threatening it with Sludge Bomb or checking CM sets helps make playing around it easier.

IMG_8929.png
IMG_5478.png

Conclusion
Glowking is better than Johtoking, this isn’t a discussion on who’s the best, but OGking offers its own set of unique advantages over it.

It is a bulky SpD water without needing to Tera, it has a better matchup into the merit of ground types in the tier. Scald makes it even less passive than the already annoying Gking, securing burns on targets that often would try to switch in on Glowking like Gambit, Weavile, and Samu-H. Johtoking sports a better matchup into NP Deo-S which can be annoying for bulkier teams to check.

Stay tuned for my teambuilding guide.
 
What happens if you click parting shot into Defiant Kingambit
This question is probably better for the simple answers, simple questions thread here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...e-answers-thread.3710772/page-70#post-9925120
But I'll answer it anyways.
+3 attack, cause the attack and sp.A drop are considered seperately. The attack drop will instantly be undone by the +2 defiant boost, giving it +1 attack. Then the sp.A boost will make gambit get a further +2 in attack, meaning it will in the end get +3 attack. Defiant kingambit is pretty rare, so this interaction is pretty rare. If the gambit comes in after an ally is defeated and it doesn't have the text of number of fallen allies, then it is defiant, so don't click parting shot into it.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 13, Guests: 92)

Top