Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [NEW TIERING RESULTS POST 11597]

Anyone else find it really weird (and gross) that despite being a 2m tall, steel/dragon bridge, archaludon only weighs 60kg, and as such takes 80bp from weight moves like low kick. Someone at gamefreak probably had a bad breakup and wanted to inflict their pain onto us.
 
I understand that tiering list does not reflect usage, but did they HAVE to put garganacl this high?
It is nowhere to be seen in OU.

It barely has a niche, it is more scared of archaludon than archaludon is scared of it.
curse garg is always good, the only caveat is youre usually required to tera. it even does well into rain if you tera water. water garg + clodsire effectively solo an average rain team if you think about it. And the entire rain team cannot switch into salt cure especially pelipper.
 

j0nathan

formerly trainer_j0nathan
Anyone else find it really weird (and gross) that despite being a 2m tall, steel/dragon bridge, archaludon only weighs 60kg, and as such takes 80bp from weight moves like low kick. Someone at gamefreak probably had a bad breakup and wanted to inflict their pain onto us.
Bronzor, Golett, Seel, Bergmite, Mantyke and Mudbray all weigh more then Arch. GF is evil.
 

DaRotomMachine

I COULD BE BANNED!
Bronzor, Golett, Seel, Bergmite, Mantyke and Mudbray all weigh more then Arch. GF is evil.
Another reason why Arch is incredibly stupid: not even Low Kick can take down this Bridge that is apparently only 60 kgs? 132 pounds only (in the US) That's literally how much I weigh, and I'm supposed to be compared to a freakin BRIDGE that is made of steel and is like a foot taller than I am.
 

DaRotomMachine

I COULD BE BANNED!
Let’s just all forget Gen 9 and leave it in the dust while we beg Gen 10 has :Dhelmise: Dhelmise so I can do a Dhelmise for OU campaign.
I think I recall that your Ampharos one didn't succeed
What I will say tho is that Gen 10 will probably not be here in like a few years and even then Dhelmise will probably get overshadowed by other mons
 
I think I recall that your Ampharos one didn't succeed
What I will say tho is that Gen 10 will probably not be here in like a few years and even then Dhelmise will probably get overshadowed by other mons
My Ampharos one didn’t exceed because people ignored the truth! I showed evidence of its greatness! But no, the users of this thread refused to listen.
“It’s outclassed by Raging Bolt!” You people cried out. Can Raging Bolt OHKO Iron Treads outside of weather? No!
Can Raging Bolt bait out opposing Raging Bolts and Great Tusks? No!
Everyone knows what Raging Bolt can do. But Ampharos steals kills because no one sees its true potential and power!
 
Is it just me or Hawlucha is doing good right now? I've seen it quite often, mostly paired with Rillaboom, which is awesome, I love Lucha and even though power creep is real, it's nice to see mexican excellence doing its thing!
 
Congrats on reaching 1800s. I'm going to have to ask you how much Archalodon made you rage. Just out of curiosity.
I was using Sun teams most of the time and they have so many hard hitters, Arch barely has any time to get going. Besides the sun stables, I was using life orb protect + 3 attacks Blaziken(my OG 1st starter T.T), CB Slither Wings and AV Sandy Shocks and as you can see, these mons laugh at Arch and either force him to Tera or flee. There is also GF OHKOing it in sun regardless what he does lol.

Now, I will say when I tried sunless teams, yeah, Arch was a huuuuge pain in the butt. Lost and tilted all the way down to the 1200s because this mon just couldn't be taken down and would become simply stronger and stronger no matter how hard I tried to outplay Arch. Instead of trying to finess your way against him, you just gotta hit him so hard, he doesn't have time to snowball.

Grant me your most valuable piece of wisdom for people hardstuck in 1500, my lord
Just click the red button like a caveman and don't think about anything else. Just about think about how high you will be, once you see the damage calcs.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2055495551-8cbrz7wpwe9pqawt1mhwggw0r00ts0tpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2059242353

Edit: Also the game that got me into the 1800s https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2059936752-c9bhquogchq72gltrp54zhwblu7rsgspw

(Just kidding, don't play like this.)

In my opinion, I think you should find a team that you are comfortable with. Try to use a team with a mon you like, grind out ladder, and change it up, depending on what team gave you trouble. I love powerful fire types, so I when I try to built a team, I try to include a fire type and built around that and maybe experiment a little. Can't guaratee you success because this gen is kinda hard to figure out and there is way too many things that I have to cover for. Sometimes you just gotta accept taking an L to some threats I guess.

As for how to play... Idk maybe dont try to overpredict if you dont have to, in the lower part of the ladder. Also try to dicern your opponents win condition and play around that. For example, when you see a Gambit, the Lord of reverse sweeps, keep your check like (in my case) Dragonite healthy no matter how tempting it is to switch it in.
 
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With Arch likely getting the :Heavy-Duty Boots: tomorrow, I'd like to reflect on some of the more fun rain teams I used it on.

https://pokepast.es/bcf7fd58a010cd65
:Pelipper: :Barraskewda: :Archaludon::Iron Crown: :Landorus-Therian::Hatterene:

This team has a lot of issues, but was still a pretty fun Volturn team. AV Iron Crown on rain is a fairly cool option, helping deal with Kyurem, enemy Archaludon, Slowking-G etc. and setting up a Future Sight for either Archaludon or Barraskewda to begin trolling. Eject hat is a strong pivot & can support arch with paralysis / Healing Wish, which it loves. Sandsear Lando-T is ass, but "technically" it benefits from Rain & burn is nice vs Gambit IG though the burn rate still isn't that good. EVs let it outspeed bolt, which 6-0es this team. Dragapult is another mon that can 6-0 this team, as can Ogerpon-W.

https://pokepast.es/30eca0dc2c1bb281
:Pelipper: :Barraskewda: :Archaludon::Iron Treads: :Ogerpon-Wellspring::Volcarona:
This is some other expiremental bullshit I wanted to try. Ogerpon-W is pretty busted as is RN, but becomes double busted in rain when its firing off 150 BP Ivy Cudgels that can still crit. The power boost from rain makes it easier to setup SD since you force out more threats. SD boosted Superpower is pretty OP rn since it just drops Arch (barring the odd fully defensive variants, which are annoying). Volcarona on rain is something that intrigued me since it provided some crucial resistances to Fairy and Ice attacks (namely freeze dry) that rain can struggle with. I'll be the first to admit that this set I'm running is some bullshit, but it winds up working better than one may expect lmao. I've still been able to sweep with it here and there vs opposing weathers.

Overall, its been fun messing around with rain. This was a style I didn't really pay much mind to before, but the goat Arch encourged me to give it a try and its been a blast to use, though its a bit hard to get too creative with rain since there are still a lot of annoying roadblocks for it to overcome, whether it be Ogerpon-W, Specs dragapult, Serperior, Primarina, etc.
 
I understand that tiering list does not reflect usage, but did they HAVE to put garganacl this high?
It is nowhere to be seen in OU.

It barely has a niche, it is more scared of archaludon than archaludon is scared of it.
I remember when people wanted it banned almost a year ago and it was 30 pages long or more. Be patient grasshopper. It’s not even banworthy now. Calm down everyone and let the meta develop after the verdict tomorrow :)

P.S. ban magikarp. So OP!
 
Okay, if you want to be truly evil when pp stalling people (moreso than usual), use chansey. That thing is insane at taking hits with soft-boiled, protect, defense curl and calm mind. You can drop either defense curl or calm mind for seismic toss to do actual damage (I would drop calm mind because you already can take on special sweepers naturally), but that's not needed. With 64 pp on defense curl, you can stall so many mons out of pp, it is insane.
I think I've got the right team down which is Kyurem, quagsire, cresselia (though I don't think cres is really useful from testing, so you could replace it but the chance to use another teamate again is desirable), registeel, chansey and Deoxys-Speed.
Kyurem, registeel and Deoxys-Speed are necessary on the team, while the rest can be swapped out for different mons for different matchups.
Some options include: Vaporeon, Suicune, Clodsire, Landorus-T, Moltres and Zapdos.
 

Ehmcee

A Spoopy Ghost
is a Tiering Contributor
Okay, if you want to be truly evil when pp stalling people (moreso than usual), use chansey. That thing is insane at taking hits with soft-boiled, protect, defense curl and calm mind. You can drop either defense curl or calm mind for seismic toss to do actual damage (I would drop calm mind because you already can take on special sweepers naturally), but that's not needed. With 64 pp on defense curl, you can stall so many mons out of pp, it is insane.
I think I've got the right team down which is Kyurem, quagsire, cresselia (though I don't think cres is really useful from testing, so you could replace it but the chance to use another teamate again is desirable), registeel, chansey and Deoxys-Speed.
Kyurem, registeel and Deoxys-Speed are necessary on the team, while the rest can be swapped out for different mons for different matchups.
Some options include: Vaporeon, Suicune, Clodsire, Landorus-T, Moltres and Zapdos.
If you're going to be running PP stall tactics, you need to have a way to break with your PP staller. Otherwise, the opponent can just freely switch while you use all of your PP. The main two mons that are able to do this are DD Kyurem and CM Suicune, which both also have Pressure which makes the PP stalling twice as effective. You need a good way to break past a regen core, and at least have some kind of offensive pressure on the field.

Those two mons need a lot of support though, they pretty much mandate a Dondozo + Clodsire with them alongside good hazard removal. These kinds of squads are very hard to build, but they can see some success.
 
If you're going to be running PP stall tactics, you need to have a way to break with your PP staller. Otherwise, the opponent can just freely switch while you use all of your PP. The main two mons that are able to do this are DD Kyurem and CM Suicune, which both also have Pressure which makes the PP stalling twice as effective. You need a good way to break past a regen core, and at least have some kind of offensive pressure on the field.

Those two mons need a lot of support though, they pretty much mandate a Dondozo + Clodsire with them alongside good hazard removal. These kinds of squads are very hard to build, but they can see some success.
I am using dd Kyurem, which is my main way to break things. I also use iron defense, amnesia, body press to threaten a lot of sweepers as you can boost up more than they can. It's why something like ting-lu doesn't work as it is just too passive. It's why I use deoxys-Speed over Deo-D because the speed stat means you can actually start stalling things.
This is the team btw:
https://pokepast.es/234f7bb4ff17bbb9
 

ant4456

I COULD BE BANNED!
curse garg is always good, the only caveat is youre usually required to tera. it even does well into rain if you tera water. water garg + clodsire effectively solo an average rain team if you think about it. And the entire rain team cannot switch into salt cure especially pelipper.
I wouldn't say this is totally true. I think you twisted the two things around; Garganacl is not usually that good in OU nowadays, but it has such a good matchup into rain that it has to be considered.

Salt Cure targets both Water and Steel-Types. You now have a Water resist that punishes Archaludon for switching in by a giant degree, that cannot be recovered, possibly with hazards up. Garganacl being on the rise is IMO 90% to do with Rain.
 
I wouldn't say this is totally true. I think you twisted the two things around; Garganacl is not usually that good in OU nowadays, but it has such a good matchup into rain that it has to be considered.

Salt Cure targets both Water and Steel-Types. You now have a Water resist that punishes Archaludon for switching in by a giant degree, that cannot be recovered, possibly with hazards up. Garganacl being on the rise is IMO 90% to do with Rain.
It still loses hard to Arch though in the 1v1 by being a free entry point to use Electro Shot and doesn't fair TOO well vs Bolt, another common member of rain teams.
 

ant4456

I COULD BE BANNED!
It still loses hard to Arch though in the 1v1 by being a free entry point to use Electro Shot and doesn't fair TOO well vs Bolt, another common member of rain teams.
Yeah but you don't switch it into Arch or something, lol. It's easy to get in post Tera as you can do it on 3 mons on the standard rain core, and then you punish switch ins.

Bolt is good against it ofc but just thinking in terms of 1v1s is just wrong, Garg can play the long game.

Also it is not a free entry for Arch because you use it, they take 25% (insane amount), you switch out to anything that can live a hit and it takes another 25%. You click protect on a Gliscor or some shit and it's literally one turn away from dying.
 
WTH is this team? You're going to make Kyurem look broken for no reason. Sub in Weavile so you can play top-level instead of randoms.
The whole point of the team is to pp stall mons, which while weavile can do, it is worse than kyurem in most regards because it doesn't have dd to boost speed+attack and worse bulk. Dd kyurem is a fundamental part of the team and it would become much worse if weavile was subbed in.
 

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