Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [NEW TIERING RESULTS POST 11597]

awyp

'Alexa play Ladyfingers by Herb Alpert'
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This weekend in Smogon Tournaments

in the Offical Smogon Tournament Semifinals
Storm Zone :Ninetales-Alola::Ursaluna::Hatterene::Iron Crown::Samurott-Hisui::Dragonite: vs Thiago Nunes :Raging Bolt::Walking Wake::Roaring Moon::Iron Treads::Iron Valiant::Gouging Fire: - Replay
Storm Zone :Iron Moth::Iron Treads::Primarina::Rillaboom::Kingambit::Hawlucha: vs Thiago Nunes :Slowking-Galar::Mamoswine::Tornadus-Therian::Gholdengo::Cinderace::Rotom-Wash: - Replay
Two very interesting games here with some strong aggressive offence from Storm Zone facing off against Thiago's choices of even more aggressive booster spam and some Volt Turn galore featuring a few too many UUs. Really fun games emphasizing how many different flavours of offence are viable right now.

Antonazz :Ogerpon-Wellspring::Landorus-Therian::Slowking-Galar::Raging Bolt::Kingambit::Cinderace: vs DugZa :Landorus-Therian::Samurott-Hisui::Zamazenta::Gholdengo::Kyurem::Slowking-Galar: - Replay
Antonazz :Iron Hands::Landorus-Therian::Clefable::Samurott-Hisui::Dragapult::Slowking-Galar: vs DugZa :Ting-Lu::Cinderace::Landorus-Therian::Clefable::Primarina::Dragapult: - Replay
Antonazz :Hoopa-Unbound::Landorus-Therian::Cinderace::Primarina::Kingambit::Raging Bolt: vs DugZa :Volcanion::Weavile::Dragapult::Landorus-Therian::Clefable::Slowking-Galar: - Replay
Close set between two Landorus/Slowking enthusiasts featuring some cool techs. Tera Fire Cinderace is an absolute monster to switch into even without Choice Band, very cool choice.

Great run from the eliminated players, Finals this week should be amazing.

in Smogon Premiere League
Trosko :Dragapult::Skarmory::Ogerpon::Ting-Lu::Gliscor::Gholdengo: vs hellom :Slowking-Galar::Gliscor::Moltres::Gholdengo::Ogerpon-Wellspring::Great Tusk: - Replay
An insanely close and dramatic balance vs balance match coming down to lucky breaks and moves just barely failing to kill. Luck being a factor may be demotivating for the players but I think it just goes to show how insanely close these players are in skill and teambuilding ability. This game truly looked like two of the top players in the metagame giving it their all.
myjava :Skeledirge::Alomomola::Gliscor::Clefable::Ogerpon::Zamazenta: vs xavgb :Ogerpon-Cornerstone::Zamazenta::Gouging Fire::Deoxys-Speed::Kingambit::Hatterene: - Replay
This game got ugly with luck at the end which spoiled an interesting matchup between fat balance and Rockpon offence. Myjava remains very hard to build against with team choices ranging from all out HO to Fat Balance like this and even stall earlier in the semifinals. Xavgb played really well and got spoiled by hax but otherwise showed that they still have what it takes to play at the top level of SV OU after an up and down season.

in Smogon Tour - it was SS week so no SV games.

The week ahead - Two Trophy Finals
Storm Zone vs Antonazz - OST Finals
This should be a crazy banger matchup between two ladder players who seem to be weaving the meta together wtih innovative and solid offensive teams backed with smart play. Storm Zone has the creative edge here so I put them in the driver's seat.

SPL
JJ09LIE vs Mada
Storm Zone vs myjava - Highlight match
S1nn0hC0nfirm3d vs Poek
Trosko
vs Luispeikou
Four bangers!!! Tune in to smogtours server Sunday to see the best of the best face off for their team trophy.
Both Anto's first game and xavgb's game this week which was determined by freeze I want to speak about (Anto ended up winning but that's just because he was already far ahead). Freeze needs to get looked at exactly like sleep has, there's no way to stop getting frozen outside switching into a Ice mon or just using Covert Cloak which currently isn't widely used because Hazard stack is such a problem and you prefer to use boots. Only moves that thaw you out which isn't popularly distributed is Flare Blitz, Pyro Ball, Scorching Sand, Scald, Steam Eruption and Matcha Gotcha.
 
Ahahahahaha!

Vileplume stall! Vileplume stall everywhere! Wtf even is this meta? Yeah if you see a shitty team with a Plume randomly thrown in that's probably me, but how many of those are you running into? Never realized the popularity of popular sets.
 

Duck Chris

replay watcher
is a Forum Moderator
Both Anto's first game and xavgb's game this week which was determined by freeze I want to speak about (Anto ended up winning but that's just because he was already far ahead). Freeze needs to get looked at exactly like sleep has, there's no way to stop getting frozen outside switching into a Ice mon or just using Covert Cloak which currently isn't widely used because Hazard stack is such a problem and you prefer to use boots. Only moves that thaw you out which isn't popularly distributed is Flare Blitz, Pyro Ball, Scorching Sand, Scald, Steam Eruption and Matcha Gotcha.
Freeze is a really interesting case imo because it highlights the problem with defensive counterplay strategies as a whole. Looking at the kyurem freeze specifically (the other one was just a prayer answered), Kyurem's threat level with freeze is so potent because you can't really rely on defensive switch ins that take 30 to 40 if you eventually get frozen. Of course we can cry hax but the reality is if you switch into Ice beam multiple times you can expect a freeze eventually right. Which is why Slowking-G isn't really a "counter" to special attacking Kyurem on it's own because there's always that chance. This definitely makes Kyurem more broken in many people's eyes but is it really that different from something like Shadow Ball Dragapult or Iron Head Excadrill in past generations?

Also we can't exactly "look at" freeze as the only way to prevent it would be modding the game or banning all ice moves that freeze lol.
 
Idk about anyone else, but I’m starting to see a lot more stall around 1600-1800 with Tera dragon Dozo to handle Ogerpon. Idk what the solution to the meta is, but while we wait I think it will put much more of a strain on styles between Stall and HO. It’s very tough to fit a breaker, knocker, hazard control, hazard setting, speed control, priority, win cons, and set-up counters on one team right now. It’s making balance structures very centralized around a few mons that have that role compression.
 

awyp

'Alexa play Ladyfingers by Herb Alpert'
is a Forum Moderatoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Freeze is a really interesting case imo because it highlights the problem with defensive counterplay strategies as a whole. Looking at the kyurem freeze specifically (the other one was just a prayer answered), Kyurem's threat level with freeze is so potent because you can't really rely on defensive switch ins that take 30 to 40 if you eventually get frozen. Of course we can cry hax but the reality is if you switch into Ice beam multiple times you can expect a freeze eventually right. Which is why Slowking-G isn't really a "counter" to special attacking Kyurem on it's own because there's always that chance. This definitely makes Kyurem more broken in many people's eyes but is it really that different from something like Shadow Ball Dragapult or Iron Head Excadrill in past generations?

Also we can't exactly "look at" freeze as the only way to prevent it would be modding the game or banning all ice moves that freeze lol.
Freeze Clause was implemented in the past and can be implemented again, that being said I said it needs to be looked at which means there needs to be something done whether is banning Kyurem who's the biggest abuser or fix the hazard stack problems and not run boots spam so you have the option to even run Covert Cloak
 
Serperior hanging by thread...

Garganacci OU again after many several months.

Also, Gholdy back in the top 5 and increased its usage, too much for it not being that good anymore, huh?
 
Freeze Clause was implemented in the past and can be implemented again, that being said I said it needs to be looked at which means there needs to be something done whether is banning Kyurem who's the biggest abuser or fix the hazard stack problems and not run boots spam so you have the option to even run Covert Cloak
I don’t think there’s a high chance of a Freeze Clause this Gen after the “Sleep Clause is modding and is not cartridge accurate” stuff that happened this Gen.
 

Ehmcee

A Spoopy Ghost
is a Tiering Contributor
Freeze Clause was implemented in the past and can be implemented again, that being said I said it needs to be looked at which means there needs to be something done whether is banning Kyurem who's the biggest abuser or fix the hazard stack problems and not run boots spam so you have the option to even run Covert Cloak
Both games you mentionned would have not been affected at all by Freeze Clause, assuming you'd implement it in the same way that not more than one mon can be frozen. I think there is wider discussion to be had on Kyurem and it's ability to get multiple freezes per game more consistently, but Freeze Clause is a totally separate solution that doesn't really do anything here.

That Zama game is just unfortunate, sometimes we gotta just take that L
 

awyp

'Alexa play Ladyfingers by Herb Alpert'
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Both games you mentionned would have not been affected at all by Freeze Clause, assuming you'd implement it in the same way that not more than one mon can be frozen. I think there is wider discussion to be had on Kyurem and it's ability to get multiple freezes per game more consistently, but Freeze Clause is a totally separate solution that doesn't really do anything here.

That Zama game is just unfortunate, sometimes we gotta just take that L
I'm just bringing up Freeze Clause just because I was responding to the poster that Freeze has been looked at in the past and can, but no Freeze Clause wouldn't have changed the outcome of any of these games but I'm saying something must be done in general because it's a very uncompetitive part when it comes to the meta and that essentially there's no way to counteract that since like I said you kinda need to run boots majority of the games because of hazard stack issues.
 

658Greninja

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Moderator
I'm just bringing up Freeze Clause just because I was responding to the poster that Freeze has been looked at in the past and can, but no Freeze Clause wouldn't have changed the outcome of any of these games but I'm saying something must be done in general because it's a very uncompetitive part when it comes to the meta and that essentially there's no way to counteract that since like I said you kinda need to run boots majority of the games because of hazard stack issues.
PLA introduced the best versions of Freeze and Sleep only to never use them again.

I think a freeze clause might be hard to actually execute. We just yeeted the sleep clause out the door because sleep proved to still be uncompetitive and also it’s not replicable by the cartridge. There’s no move that can guarantee freeze. A freeze clause would go against the philosophy of being as cartridge accurate as possible. It might work for older gens because some of them do have sleep/freeze clause in official formats, but we don’t have any such thing for Gen 9.
 
Garg is back
Boulder is trash
Lando is now top 5 in usage
Teal Mask Ogerpon is good
Balance stonks are raising
Pult is committing tax fraud
Crab offense is fighting the war against big stall
What types of crab? Please say my beloved LO DD Jet Crabhammer Knock Crawdawnt is viable. It’s not landover? Surprising. Quite sad about Boulder, loved the mon. If only it had any other type then Psychic.
 
Thoughts on :custap-berry: :araquanid:? Due to its bulk, it has a high chance to live any one hit which can safely get up Sticky Webs, only worrying about Taunt. With it getting to low HP very easily, :custap-berry: can allow you to click a lot of moves to make progress, such as Sticky Web, STABs, or a move such Endeavor.


Araquanid @ Custap Berry
Ability: Water Bubble
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 176 HP / 240 Atk / 92 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 29 Def
- Sticky Web
- Liquidation
- Lunge
- Endeavor

As mentioned above, I feel like these four moves would go perfectly on :custap-berry: :araquanid: Sticky Web to lower opposing mons, Liquidation to hit mons hard such as :hatterene:, Lunge to lower mons who can potentially set up on it such as Breaking Swipe :gouging-fire:, and Endeavor to weaken mons that :araquanid: cannot hit well, such as :kyurem: or :dondozo:, given that you are low health. The HP is to live :choice-specs: :kyurem: Freeze-Dry every time and to rebuttle with :custap-berry: Endeavor, and 29 Def IVs are ran to get into :custap-berry: range against an :ogerpon-wellspring: every time, which is another reason why Lunge is used over Leech Life.

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Freeze-Dry vs. 176 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 270-320 (84.1 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Power Whip vs. 176 HP / 0 Def 29 IVs Araquanid: 241-285 (75 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Thoughts on this? I think this :araquanid: set could have a niche, used for more Bulky Offense playstyles rather than Hyper Offense playstyles with :ribombee:.
 

658Greninja

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Moderator
I was playing some UU, and besides only seeing one Boulder, he didn't do anything because I had Scizor and Barraskewda.
RU loading...
I knew Boulder was a fraud since day 1.

To divert this convo to avoid a one-liner.

IMG_3672.png

What does Blaziken even do in this meta anymore?

It sucks vs Balance because most of them carry Gliscor, Dozo, Mola, Tusk, and Zama.

Sucks vs BO/HO since they carry priority, Lando, Dnite, Tusk, Prim, Booster mons, and ofc Zama.

Forget about breaking Stall cause any Stall build that loses to Blaziken wasn’t good to begin with.

It needs Protect cause of Booster mons, so that limits you to Swords Dance, STAB, and the 4th slot. This is a problem for Blaziken who already had a big 4MSS. It can’t carry all the coverage it needs like T-Punch, EQ, and Knock. Even with resistances to Dark, Grass, Fire, and Steel, it doesn’t get many chances to setup due to its inherent frailty.

There’s competition with G-Fire and Cinderace as a physically offensive Fire type.

I might be the biggest Blaziken hater but every meta trend in the past few months has been terrible for it.
 

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