Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [NEW TIERING RESULTS POST 11597]

so i just ran into a deo-s set that absolutely shredded my balance team and i'd like to share it because it was actually quite a brilliant use of stellar tera:

Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Stellar
[evs/nature unknown but presumably had investment in one or more attacking stats]
- Ice Beam
- Knock Off
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower

the boosts from tera stellar and life orb and the massive coverage make this a very potent late-game cleaner, as evidenced by the fact that it cleaned the fuck out of my team in the late game. combine it with a hazard setter and breaker of choice to soften up the team beforehand—the team i saw used hamurott and hydrapple and it worked quite well for them
 
so i just ran into a deo-s set that absolutely shredded my balance team and i'd like to share it because it was actually quite a brilliant use of stellar tera:

Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Stellar
[evs/nature unknown but presumably had investment in one or more attacking stats]
- Ice Beam
- Knock Off
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower

the boosts from tera stellar and life orb and the massive coverage make this a very potent late-game cleaner, as evidenced by the fact that it cleaned the fuck out of my team in the late game. combine it with a hazard setter and breaker of choice to soften up the team beforehand—the team i saw used hamurott and hydrapple and it worked quite well for them
Do you have the replay? I'd like to dissect it into their EVs
I'd also need ur mons EVs as well
 
Do you have the replay? I'd like to dissect it into their EVs
I'd also need ur mons EVs as well
ah fuck i didn't save it and i forget what the other user is even called

well, from what i recall, it killed my av 248/192 hydrapple with ice beam (pre-tera) from too high to possibly not be invested in spa at least some (i was at like 70 i think), but it also killed my tera dark uninvested great tusk with superpower (post-tera) from almost full, so i think it might have been fully invested in attack with some in spa and the rest in speed
 
so i just ran into a deo-s set that absolutely shredded my balance team and i'd like to share it because it was actually quite a brilliant use of stellar tera:
Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Stellar
[evs/nature unknown but presumably had investment in one or more attacking stats]
- Ice Beam
- Knock Off
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower

the boosts from tera stellar and life orb and the massive coverage make this a very potent late-game cleaner, as evidenced by the fact that it cleaned the fuck out of my team in the late game. combine it with a hazard setter and breaker of choice to soften up the team beforehand—the team i saw used hamurott and hydrapple and it worked quite well for them
For an all out attacking set, for sure you want to use 104 Speed. It lets you outspeed Dragapult and most of the relevant Paradox Pokemon will outspeed you at max speed anyways. You also don’t have to worry about opposing Deoxys taunting you. I imagine the spread would be like either one of these.
EVs: 152 Atk / 252 SpA / 104 Spe
Rash Nature
or
EVs: 188 Atk / 216 SpA / 104 Spe
Rash Nature
Former maxes SpA and latter hits the positive nature bumb, with remaining EVs dumped into Atk. You can try checking with these (but Stellar type on cal is funky so check them by manually changing BP of your moves)
 
ah fuck i didn't save it and i forget what the other user is even called

well, from what i recall, it killed my av 248/192 hydrapple with ice beam (pre-tera) from too high to possibly not be invested in spa at least some (i was at like 70 i think), but it also killed my tera dark uninvested great tusk with superpower (post-tera) from almost full, so i think it might have been fully invested in attack with some in spa and the rest in speed
Ahhh, unfortunate
You can always look in ur history for the battle
 

ImZer0

I COULD BE BANNED!
Yeah I am really happy too! Latias is my fave legendary and it’s good to see that even after all these gens she does her things and mind her business.
mhmmm, honestly i generally was scared and thought latias would get hit hard by power creep this gen(considering how utterly insane this gens power creep has been for a lot of mons in particular) but honestly that could be far from the truth man and im glad shes having such a great gen overall


I see you too are a man of culture.

Hell, Latias is even doing well in VGC. The red jet plane dragon thing :latias: is eating well with this DLC!
YESSIRRRRR WE BALL :latias: , im generally glad shes eating so well this dlc in ou and im also glad that shes doing well in vgc this gen too :D
 
View attachment 583076
me queueing up the meme folder for when lando and pex drop to uu
My reaction if Pex and Lando drop to UU
mhmmm, honestly i generally was scared and thought latias would get hit hard by power creep this gen(considering how utterly insane this gens power creep has been for a lot of mons in particular) but honestly that could be far from the truth man and im glad shes having such a great gen overall



YESSIRRRRR WE BALL :latias: , im generally glad shes eating so well this dlc in ou and im also glad that shes doing well in vgc this gen too :D
unfortunately lost Roost and didn't gain Flip Turn or U-Turn. So what can it do that Latios can't? Like legit please tell me.
ah fuck i didn't save it and i forget what the other user is even called

well, from what i recall, it killed my av 248/192 hydrapple with ice beam (pre-tera) from too high to possibly not be invested in spa at least some (i was at like 70 i think), but it also killed my tera dark uninvested great tusk with superpower (post-tera) from almost full, so i think it might have been fully invested in attack with some in spa and the rest in speed
WOW, THAT IS STRONG
so i just ran into a deo-s set that absolutely shredded my balance team and i'd like to share it because it was actually quite a brilliant use of stellar tera:

Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Stellar
[evs/nature unknown but presumably had investment in one or more attacking stats]
- Ice Beam
- Knock Off
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower

the boosts from tera stellar and life orb and the massive coverage make this a very potent late-game cleaner, as evidenced by the fact that it cleaned the fuck out of my team in the late game. combine it with a hazard setter and breaker of choice to soften up the team beforehand—the team i saw used hamurott and hydrapple and it worked quite well for them
I remeber someone saying Stellar Tera wasn't that good, and then I see this.
 
ah fuck i didn't save it and i forget what the other user is even called

well, from what i recall, it killed my av 248/192 hydrapple with ice beam (pre-tera) from too high to possibly not be invested in spa at least some (i was at like 70 i think), but it also killed my tera dark uninvested great tusk with superpower (post-tera) from almost full, so i think it might have been fully invested in attack with some in spa and the rest in speed
For an all out attacking set, for sure you want to use 104 Speed. It lets you outspeed Dragapult and most of the relevant Paradox Pokemon will outspeed you at max speed anyways. You also don’t have to worry about opposing Deoxys taunting you. I imagine the spread would be like either one of these.
EVs: 152 Atk / 252 SpA / 104 Spe
Rash Nature
or
EVs: 188 Atk / 216 SpA / 104 Spe
Rash Nature
Former maxes SpA and latter hits the positive nature bumb, with remaining EVs dumped into Atk. You can try checking with these (but Stellar type on cal is funky so check them by manually changing BP of your moves)
Actually posted that after you told some calcs and now I’m thinking it may be swapping Atk and SpA EVs/Nature.
252+ Atk Life Orb Stellar Tera Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Dark Great Tusk: 286-338 (77 - 91.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
216+ Atk Life Orb Stellar Tera Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Dark Great Tusk: 278-330 (74.9 - 88.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
152 SpA Life Orb Stellar Tera Deoxys-Speed Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 192 SpD Assault Vest Hydrapple: 291-348 (70.1 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
188 SpA Life Orb Stellar Tera Deoxys-Speed Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 192 SpD Assault Vest Hydrapple: 302-359 (72.7 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Does this look accurate?
 
unfortunately lost Roost and didn't gain Flip Turn or U-Turn. So what can it do that Latios can't? Like legit please tell me.
consider: recover, calm mind, stored power, draining kiss. like magearna but with reliable recovery and stab on the stored power (alternatively agility instead of recover). also, i've seen cleric sets with wish, which latios can't do, and mist ball is a pretty solid way to cripple special attackers against a mon who already has massive spdef. tera also really helps latias defensively—you know what's better than being an electric-type with one weakness? being an electric-type with no weaknesses. or a steel-type with an extra ground immunity. or a poison-type with also that. she plays kind of like a stronger, faster, but less bulky version of cresselia in my experience
 
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The suspect was pretty much promised, so unless council decides that it's better to go back on that (i don't mean judgementally, it was a promise made before we knew what dlc2 would look like), it's going to happen. I don't personally think it'll be productive, but I do think the people who wanted a test before and who were told to wait for dlc2 should be thrown a bone
I disagree, I think suspecting Tera when there is little to no community sentiment for it would be a huge middle finger to the anti Tera community, that would essentially ensure a "no action" result that could be pointed to when any alarm on Tera is actually raised. It would be essentially ensuring action is never taken vs Tera. Most people critical of Tera have voiced that an unnecessary suspect would make Tera more, not less, likely the remain in the tier and that waiting until the playerbase is relatively fed up with Tera (which very well could happen towards the end of the gen, or if pushing bans creates another chaotic ripple effect,) would be a much better course of action
 
I disagree, I think suspecting Tera when there is little to no community sentiment for it would be a huge middle finger to the anti Tera community, that would essentially ensure a "no action" result that could be pointed to when any alarm on Tera is actually raised. It would be essentially ensuring action is never taken vs Tera. Most people critical of Tera have voiced that an unnecessary suspect would make Tera more, not less, likely the remain in the tier and that waiting until the playerbase is relatively fed up with Tera (which very well could happen towards the end of the gen, or if pushing bans creates another chaotic ripple effect,) would be a much better course of action
I do think you and others have fair points, though I wonder, assuming we do need to have the suspect at all, if there would be enough time for it to happen with the track record of the gen. Ofc, if the anti-tera community would rather wait that's fine, I'm not here to fight over the suspect timing LOL.

Right now I'm back on the abstain part. Tera was feeling oppressive on DLC1 but right now it feels fine. Obviously that's not how it was planned, but it's almost like tera was made for this final dex instead of the base/home/dlc1 dexes. It might get worse, but maybe it won't, that'd be cool
 
ah fuck i didn't save it and i forget what the other user is even called

well, from what i recall, it killed my av 248/192 hydrapple with ice beam (pre-tera) from too high to possibly not be invested in spa at least some (i was at like 70 i think), but it also killed my tera dark uninvested great tusk with superpower (post-tera) from almost full, so i think it might have been fully invested in attack with some in spa and the rest in speed
You said Life Orb?

252 Atk Life Orb Tera Stellar Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Dark Great Tusk: 263-309 (70.8 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Stellar Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Dark Great Tusk: 286-341 (77 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Speed Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 192 SpD Assault Vest Hydrapple: 265-317 (63.8 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Speed Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Assault Vest Hydrapple: 244-291 (58.7 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+Speed Deo-S hits 435 with no other investment, outspeeding a theoretical base 148 Speed Pokemon by 1 point (Electrode sluts, rise up) and 396 with a neutral nature, beating 130s by 2 points. Once again I very much recommend against ever dropping Pokemon into a metagame that is not stable, so let's wait for the radar.

On a side note, the calculator has a Stellar button directly below each move, and it's accurate in the calculation! But it still says "Tera Stellar" in a highlighted calc.
 
You said Life Orb?

252 Atk Life Orb Tera Stellar Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Dark Great Tusk: 263-309 (70.8 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Stellar Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Dark Great Tusk: 286-341 (77 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Speed Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 192 SpD Assault Vest Hydrapple: 265-317 (63.8 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Speed Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Assault Vest Hydrapple: 244-291 (58.7 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+Speed Deo-S hits 435 with no other investment, outspeeding a theoretical base 148 Speed Pokemon by 1 point (Electrode sluts, rise up) and 396 with a neutral nature, beating 130s by 2 points. Once again I very much recommend against ever dropping Pokemon into a metagame that is not stable, so let's wait for the radar.

On a side note, the calculator has a Stellar button directly below each move, and it's accurate in the calculation! But it still says "Tera Stellar" in a highlighted calc.
neutral nature with 104 Speed EVs is better as you reach way higher in one offense with it and still outspeed pult. Also really like it’s Naughty nature since it KO’s Great Tusk with Superpower + teras both sides.
 
Who is your Scald burn absorber on your team right now?
gliscor (tera water), garganacl (also tera water), blissey, clefable, gouging fire, rest dondozo, araquanid if you're a madlad, and a bunch of special-attacking mons that don't particularly mind getting burned even though they don't like it either. there are enough burn absorbers and status absorbers in general that most teams don't really have to build with scald burns specifically in mind
 
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What are they waiting for to ban gholdengo? everyone knows that this pokemon is making the metagame worse and limited
 
What are they waiting for to ban gholdengo? everyone knows that this pokemon is making the metagame worse and limited
maybe they're waiting for new toy syndrome to settle down so they can make a proper assessment. or maybe they're waiting for january when usage statistics drop to see if anything appears to be overcentralizing or meta-warping. or maybe they're just trying to take it easy for the first time they've had the opportunity to in over a year. hell, maybe they're on vacation or spending time with family because the council members are real people with lives outside of this and they deserve to enjoy the holidays as much as the rest of us. i understand that some people are frustrated that nothing happened to ghold last dlc even though it got survey results towards the end—i am too—but a lot of things have changed with the dlc2 drop and we still can't be certain where things stand. a survey is about to come out and we'll be able to voice our opinions there. it's very likely that ghold will be included on it given the influx of new hazard setters and the results of the last survey. let's let the council gauge community opinion before acting on stuff
 
so i just ran into a deo-s set that absolutely shredded my balance team and i'd like to share it because it was actually quite a brilliant use of stellar tera:

Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Stellar
[evs/nature unknown but presumably had investment in one or more attacking stats]
- Ice Beam
- Knock Off
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower

the boosts from tera stellar and life orb and the massive coverage make this a very potent late-game cleaner, as evidenced by the fact that it cleaned the fuck out of my team in the late game. combine it with a hazard setter and breaker of choice to soften up the team beforehand—the team i saw used hamurott and hydrapple and it worked quite well for them
I think Stellar Tera is pretty underexplored on all-out attackers, and Deo was actually one I was theorizing to be a pretty good abuser of it due to its coverage and speed tier. I was actually considering making a post talking about Stellar at some point because it has a lot more potential beyond just Enamorus than I think people realize.
 
What are they waiting for to ban gholdengo? everyone knows that this pokemon is making the metagame worse and limited
I don't think Ghold is at entirely fault like it used to in DLC1. Now there are so many ways to keep hazards up without Ghold.
Zapdos and H-Samurott pivoting cores that constantly keep hazards, Deo-Speed suicide leads that keep hazards up via hyper offense pressure, Gliscor doesn't need spin block as it can constantly switch back and spike up and Deoxys-Defense can do the same, yesterday I ran into a nasty Chilly Reception Slowking and Skarmory core that constantly vomited hazards. And Ghold only got worse with Volcarona, Roaring Moon, the new paradoxes and sun being back in the tier. At this point this is more of hazards problem than a Gholdengo problem, it's the result of distributing hazards like candy while removing defog and adding new removals like Tidy Up being limited to frail mice and Mortar spin being poison and limited to a single mon.
 
A mon that should be on the council's radar is Enamorus. While it requires a tera to use the contrary boost, its sets can cleave a big chunk of an opponent's team and must be accounted for in matchups. I've seen it with scarf, specs, fs, lo, and boots, and all of these sets are effective and do different things. Moonblast and Earth Power hit the entire tier for neutral except for Scarm and Corv (Molt too but no one using that in this tier), and both get fucked by mystical fire. I end up having to use Tera to counter it and even then, depending on the item I can get screwed and swept by it. I don't want to have to run Weavil priority against webs and enamorus and am annoyed by how strong of a threat it is in the meta. Additionally it takes no skill to use and it causes me mental anguish. Jokes aside i do think a suspect would be appropriate for this mon, that or the stellar tera, but i think Enamorus is the problem not stellar. Other mons i think that should be looked at are Roaring moon and gholdengo.
 
I think Stellar Tera is pretty underexplored on all-out attackers, and Deo was actually one I was theorizing to be a pretty good abuser of it due to its coverage and speed tier. I was actually considering making a post talking about Stellar at some point because it has a lot more potential beyond just Enamorus than I think people realize.
Oh it absolutely does. People either just look at tera blast or that you can only get the boost once. Sometimes, pokemon can need a boost against different pokemon that otherwise would not be possible. Zamazenta and darkrai are some that I've heard to be good, but I use it on Iron boulder to achieve kills against tusk and ghold.
 

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