Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [NEW TIERING RESULTS POST 11597]

there are bad takes and then there is this. Oof.

mon is incredibly common and dominant. Terrain has nothing to do with it. And lol its far far better than glimmora.
Wow, it really must be so dominant and common! I'm sure if we look at the oupl games this week, everyone is using it! Im sure if you play on the high ladder, its just deo s every game, with how dominant and common it is. It must be getting spammed all the time in the current ou kickoff tournament. Oh wait, it isnt. At all. Literally in the past 30 games I've played in the 1800s-1900s range ive played against it like 3 times, 2 times vs the same guy using the pinkacross sample where it sets screens and once on an HO team where it got rocks up and then died to a weavile knock+ice shard. lol

Edit: I suppose I should elaborate that when I say bad I dont mean it has no niche or that it will be UU, but that it will be a bad OU pokemon(Still good in the grand scheme of things). When I say it isnt better than hamurott or glimmora, I mean that it isnt auto better than those two in a way that it completely pushes them out of their role, like great tusk does with other spinners, and many HO teams opt to use the other two as opposed to deo s to lead. It also competes with ninetales and grim for screens and doesnt push them out of their jobs either. Same with attacking sets and other fast attackers like boulder and valiant. It isnt the titan of OU many are making it out to be like gholdengo or gliscor or kyurem, its just a pokemon with a lot of niches that doesnt displace other pokemon from the same niche, making it bad by OU standards when we have irreplaceable one of a kind role compression, breaking, or sweeping behemoths to worry about.
 
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Wow, it really must be so dominant and common! I'm sure if we look at the oupl games this week, everyone is using it! Im sure if you play on the high ladder, its just deo s every game, with how dominant and common it is. It must be getting spammed all the time in the current ou kickoff tournament. Oh wait, it isnt. At all. Literally in the past 30 games I've played in the 1800s-1900s range ive played against it like 3 times, 2 times vs the same guy using the pinkacross sample where it sets screens and once on an HO team where it got rocks up and then died to a weavile knock+ice shard. lol
I mean, it at least has to be good to even be mentioned on the survey. Plus, it's main job is to get stealth rocks or one layer of spikes up, that is literally the definition of a suicide lead. One mon's only goal is to set up the rest of the team, basically sacrificing it, to get a hazards lead and bank on the rest of your team to win the game quickly. So yeah, it is doing its job, and for that it is amazing at it. I also don't think 3 times you've seen it is enough to say it isn't dominant, maybe not common (which I disagree with, every second game I have a Deo-S on the opposing team, though I am in the 1400s so what do I know), but that isn't a big enough sample size. I would say if you faced it 10 times, we could start talking. Just because a mon is not common, doesn't mean it isn't good. Amoonguss was for a few months UU despite being better in the viability rankings than actually OU ranked mons, and Kyurem in Gen 8 even fell down to RU, despite eventually getting banned from OU.
TLDR, you literally are showing that it is doing its job from the examples you used, and usage does not equal viability.
 
SV OU is in great shape imo, but nevertheless here's my opinion:

:deoxys-speed: 4, imo suicide leads are weak, best sets are NP + 3 attacks
:kyurem: 5, just ban the thing already
:volcarona: 2, its just cheese bro, deal with it
:roaring-moon: 3, strong but not ban worthy
:gouging-fire: 2, walking wake is better
:serperior: 2, lol 75 spa stop crying
:raging-bolt: 1, a worse kingambit
:iron-boulder: 2, fast but that's it.
:enamorus: 2, stellar is kinda meh tbh but whatever
:gholdengo: 5, this thing has eluded the banhammer for so long, it should be a priority ban
:kingambit: 3, i'm neutral about it. Go ahead and suspect it, idk
 
SV OU is in great shape imo, but nevertheless here's my opinion:

:deoxys-speed: 4, imo suicide leads are weak, best sets are NP + 3 attacks
:kyurem: 5, just ban the thing already
:volcarona: 2, its just cheese bro, deal with it
:roaring-moon: 3, strong but not ban worthy
:gouging-fire: 2, walking wake is better
:serperior: 2, lol 75 spa stop crying
:raging-bolt: 1, a worse kingambit
:iron-boulder: 2, fast but that's it.
:enamorus: 2, stellar is kinda meh tbh but whatever
:gholdengo: 5, this thing has eluded the banhammer for so long, it should be a priority ban
:kingambit: 3, i'm neutral about it. Go ahead and suspect it, idk
I don’t think raging thunder’s a worse kingambit. Calm mind can make it really bulky and with screens support it can shred holes in teams.
 
SV OU is in great shape imo, but nevertheless here's my opinion:

:deoxys-speed: 4, imo suicide leads are weak, best sets are NP + 3 attacks
:kyurem: 5, just ban the thing already
:volcarona: 2, its just cheese bro, deal with it
:roaring-moon: 3, strong but not ban worthy
:gouging-fire: 2, walking wake is better
:serperior: 2, lol 75 spa stop crying
:raging-bolt: 1, a worse kingambit
:iron-boulder: 2, fast but that's it.
:enamorus: 2, stellar is kinda meh tbh but whatever
:gholdengo: 5, this thing has eluded the banhammer for so long, it should be a priority ban
:kingambit: 3, i'm neutral about it. Go ahead and suspect it, idk
Kind of funny how here Kyurem is a 5 and Raging Bolt is a 1
Almost same bulk, higher SpA, Protosynthesis, and one of the best priority moves in the game for some speed lose on a Pokemon that already isn’t fast.
 
:serperior: 2, lol 75 spa stop crying
This is such a crazy way of discussing things, it's almost laughable that you lack absolutely zero context on what the Pokémon is doing

SV OU is in great shape imo, but nevertheless here's my opinion:
:iron-boulder: 2, fast but that's it.
"but that's it" meanwhile it has 120 Atk and good bulk with the ability to use SD
 
Fun: 8, after the MISERY that was DLC1, the new toys, the buff to the old ones and the amount of styles makes me wanna come back and build and experiment, and I already have done more in the first week than the entire dlc1

Balance: 8, you can argue for some snowball / hard to stop mons, but outside gholdengo, nothing feels like an instant danger to us all

:deoxys-speed: it's a 4 in my book, mostly because of hazard meta, and thanks to its speed tier and power creep, it can run offensive sets lol, which are cute and somewhat effective with good positioning, but It's not so bad it's a "please get out"

:kyurem: it's a 3, go go gadget destroy whatever the fuck is infront of me, it's rather slow for meta standards but has no switch ins, and being specs mean It's weak to hazards

:volcarona: 1, flame body doesn't activate, so my boots get knocked off with no burns and I get fucked, its also has some move issues, needs giga drain or bug buzz to pass ting lu / donzo, and psychic to go pex, tera ground tera blast is harder to pull off because rilla just looks at you like a meal

:roaring moon: 2, It's kinda mid now that there's faster things + on contact effects, meow rising back does no favors to this thing either

:gouging fire: 4, this thing's power is brutal, it's weak to hazards and requires support, but man, killing donzo with a neutral physical attack feels like the girl you love whispers to you in your ear and then bites it a bit

:Serperior: 4, it's kinda like gen 7 all over again where it feels like you can win vs this thing but just BARELY by the skin of your teeth, and the trio of glare + sub + leech seed makes you wanna kill yourself if it gets going. Still, just like everything said above, it's manageable enough where you can decently account for it in builder and battle, just stay sharp

:Raging bolt: 3, Dinogambit is dangerous, I know everyone is simping for CM tbolt + dragon pulse + cheeks clap, but specs with tera in sun can reach gouging fire levels of unwallable, It's hard to take down because of the damage output, but if you can dance around it, it will get pressured via chip damage

:iron boulder: 3, this thing has 2 weakness, his desing (which is uglier than kicking a newborn child on his birthday) and 2, WOAT typing, whichs means most teams can basically pack him up if you survive the first attack, but that's a big if considering he has anti gliscor stalling tech in cleave, eq / cc and zen headbutt or psycho cut for hax, fuck, I have seen Morkal running secret sword to laugh at skarm

:enamorus: 3, enamorus just like serperior has contrary stellar, which boost the viability of mix sets, and just like iron boulder, its ugly as shit, the key difference is that serp has boosting while attacking combo in leaf storm + better typing, enam may have better move pool but with stellar blast you need to left either mystical fire, superpower, earth power, sub, or healing wish, and having paper thin defenses + an uncomfortable speed typing in the context of the meta gives her troubles as well

:gholdengo: 4, fucking hazard meta

:kingambit: 1, lol

RE kokoloko method: im agaisnt now, I kinda share CTC's opinion on the matter, if something comes up that requires our attention, it should come out, but for now, let's vibe and have fun in this meta

Are good at the game? no
b... but I think Iron Boulder Looks cool. Better looking than most Paradox Future pokemon anyways.. To each their own on this. But I find that Trick Room takes a lot of "Non-Ou weaklings" and then turns them into absolute monsters. Regidrago has managed to obliterate entire UBERS teams simply by use of Trickroom alone. Don't underestimate Trick Room meta, it sneaks up on you because even though its used so often, people never build to counter it cause its hard to do so and yet stay relevant to non trick room teams.
 
To be frank, I wasn't saying "Its a bad time to be a steel type" Because the steel types were "Bad" particularly, but because Gouging Fire's entered the meta and unless you're Heatran, it's gonna be tough for most steel types to deal with that business. I still have a hard time dealing with the likes of Gholdengo (Though I hate how meta he is, cause he's the most butt ugly crap design in all of this gen.. The most disappointing design of all time. They literally could've made him a mimic chest, but instead they go for "String Cheese Mascot Surfer?" screw him!)
 
Honestly I think raging bolt is severely underrated by a lot of people on this thread. It has a very high special attack stat and good bulk with investment. The calm mind sets especially with dual screens support can go calm mind, and then tank hits while clicking the appropriate move and smashing holes in the opponent’s team. Write off the speed and invest in bulk and special attack. It won’t sweep whole teams, but it will set up your other sweepers to.
 

Soiramio3000

Banned deucer.
one fun but non-good pokemon to use in OU is hitmonlee.
this pokemon can be pretty good against new players that know nothing about it.
I use this set.

300 power reversal is a nuke.
thank god it does not have to worry of sandstorm.

Hitmonlee @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Reversal
- Endure
- Earthquake
- Throat Chop

edit: I accidentally used endeavor instead of endure. I fixed it.
 
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I feel dirty for saying this but I’m almost enjoying volcarona being back in the tier just to run the bulky set and get off like 2 or three quiver dances to sweep my opponent’s team.
 
Lol
one fun but non-good pokemon to use in OU is hitmonlee.
this pokemon can be pretty good against new players that know nothing about it.
I use this set.

300 power reversal is a nuke.
thank god it does not have to worry of sandstorm.

Hitmonlee @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Reversal
- Endeavor
- Earthquake
- Throat Chop
Lol try focus sash. It’s gimmicky but funny when it works.
 
Hitmonlee already has Sword Dance and it’s not like it’s the best Unburden Sweeper either since Hawlucha exists and outspeeds Excadrill in Sand.

What are some offensive checks for the two Tera Ogerpon variants? I’m struggling to find good answers for them on my offensive and hyper offense teams.
Offensive Archaludon first thing that comes to mind.
 
Honestly I think raging bolt is severely underrated by a lot of people on this thread. It has a very high special attack stat and good bulk with investment. The calm mind sets especially with dual screens support can go calm mind, and then tank hits while clicking the appropriate move and smashing holes in the opponent’s team. Write off the speed and invest in bulk and special attack. It won’t sweep whole teams, but it will set up your other sweepers to.
There it is, that's what people keep doing. They write off so many mons because "Speed this" and "Speed that" even trying to make mons that shine as bulky tankers into jolly speedsters. Raging Bolt doesn't NEED speed. I've built hp maxed and special maxed bolt with Assault Vest. On a sun team it ravages the other side while being near unkillable. And thanks to its insane power and priority, its even able to take on Fluttermane whose defenses make it usless without a sash. And let me tell you, i've used it on an Ubers Koraidon/Miraidon Sun Terrain team and people should be GLAD Tapu Koko isn't back. Sun Terrain Raging bolt is such a nuke it really doesn't matter if you pile in a Blissey or a Snorlax or a pokemon with type resistance. The only thing surviving Raging Bolt is a ground type.
 
Thanks so like the sets with the electric boosting attack? (I forget the name.)
Electro Shot. You're gonna wanna always run it with rain. Its a waste to put Archaludon with a Power Herb like you would with meteor beam when rain allows it to run Assault Vest. Archaludon's probably in the same tier as Raging Bolt due to their immense defense offense, only Archaludon can continuously boost.
 
There it is, that's what people keep doing. They write off so many mons because "Speed this" and "Speed that" even trying to make mons that shine as bulky tankers into jolly speedsters. Raging Bolt doesn't NEED speed. I've built hp maxed and special maxed bolt with Assault Vest. On a sun team it ravages the other side while being near unkillable. And thanks to its insane power and priority, its even able to take on Fluttermane whose defenses make it usless without a sash. And let me tell you, i've used it on an Ubers Koraidon/Miraidon Sun Terrain team and people should be GLAD Tapu Koko isn't back. Sun Terrain Raging bolt is such a nuke it really doesn't matter if you pile in a Blissey or a Snorlax or a pokemon with type resistance. The only thing surviving Raging Bolt is a ground type.
Completely agree and Raging Bolt can even run dragon pulse so it can deal with the ground types once it’s behind screens. Dragon plus lightning provides great coverage of the metagame and you even can tank things like a dragon pulse from archaludon once you’re behind light screen and you invested in hp. I can even see it on a trick room team lol.
 

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