Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [OLT HYPE]

I have gambit, normal slowking (used to be tornadus-t), iron boulder, ting-lu and raging bolt. The one I swapped out was tentacruel for avalugg. After testing it a bit, it is decent. It is scared the ever loving crap out by anything that has a miniscule chance of having a special move, but if they don't it walls them forever. Ice+fighting moves are quite good coverage, as only volcarona, primarina, toxapex, skeledirge and ghold resist both moves. Which is actually more than I thought, but most other things in OU are hit super effectively by one (don't quote me on that, I may be embellishing my claims a bit.)
Honestly sounds kind of cool, I'd be willing to give it a try. TIL it also gets recover, which is great.

The only other option I could offer is bulky blastoise. It has decent mixed defenses, plus it has pretty good coverage moveset. Sadly not as strong as avalugg and no reliable recovery, but another shout. You also get the surprise factor of the one person NOT using shell smash.
 
I don’t play sand but ill definitely try out the status team. Can I possibly have a team with the kings rock zapdos? That sounds incredibly fun. In the meanwhile I’m going to try to fit the kings rock zapdos in here instead of toxapex or gholdengo.
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sad no maushold evil moments :eeveehide:
 
Wait….

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Skeledirge: 254-300 (61.8 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

How do you survive to place the Curse?
lol it was a joke and I didn’t think it would really work in reality but we can dream lol. But in actuality blissey is a good check if you figure out that it’s a special Kyurem. To physical Kyurem I think fairy types are the way to go. A niche check is banded scizor with bullet punch as well.
 

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lol it was a joke and I didn’t think it would really work in reality but we can dream lol. But in actuality blissey is a good check if you figure out that it’s a special Kyurem. To physical Kyurem I think fairy types are the way to go. A niche check is banded scizor with bullet punch as well.
The problem with Blissey is it is often too passive, allowing Kyurem to Sub and fish for freezes, or Spec to blow just enough holes into Blissey to keep you on your feet.

252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ice Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 172-204 (26.3 - 31.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Sub can run just 40 HP EVs to make Blissey’s Seismic Toss unable to break a Sub.

Blissey Seismic Toss vs. 40 HP Tera Ice Kyurem: 100-100 (24.9 - 24.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

And honestly, Sub-Freeze fishing sets usually run plenty of HP EVs.
 
Sorry for the double post, but would you ever consider using avalugg in OU? I want a spinner on my team, but I don't want to use tusk/excadrill because they overlap a lot with the rest of my team. Probs not going to use it, but I remember it being on the early viability rankings for this meta.
Avalugg-H is actually my second favorite pokemon of this generation, and it's actually a good spinner in OU... IF you're willing to always use tera on it. It has phenomenal physical bulk (Better than pechurant, which yall were going on and on about), a great stab combo backed by good coverage in EQ/Strong Jaw Crunch, recovery, and 2 decent abilities. Its flaw are obviously very clear: it very literally dies to ember (252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charizard Ember vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tera Ghost Avalugg-Hisui in Sun: 421-496 (106.8 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO), has slow speed, and can sometimes struggle to switch in to boosted physical mons like Wogerpon, but if you can find a way around those, it's great!

For Tera type, there's a few options. I personally prefer Dark, which gives you STAB strong jaw Crunches which do a surprising amount of damage, the ability to completely shit on Roaring Moon and Kingambit, and in general a typing without a lot of (physical) weaknesses. Water/Steel/Poison are good general defensive types, with bonus points to steel for giving you a 150 BP STAB Gyro Ball. Ground for STAB EQ, although I don't recommend this one because you gain weakness to Water, Grass, and Ice, which hamper your ability to check physical threats like you're supposed to.
Here's the set:
Avalugg-Hisui @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Strong Jaw
Tera Type: Water / Dark / Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rapid Spin
- Stone Edge / Crunch / Earthquake / Gyro Ball
- Recover
- Avalanche / Mountain Gale

Fuck meta discussion
hot finch-on-OU-meta-discussion action?
 
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Use galarian weezing or mandibuzz for bulky hazard removal, avalugg isn’t beating the overhyped allegations anytime soon, hisuan avalugg is free elo, for your opponent

even if paired with oh no scary sash darkrai tbh, hell not even specially defensive iron press zamazenta could help save hisuian luggy from my wrath
avalugg is fine if you wish to use it for le funnies but all hisuian avalugg users have been dealt with
Fuck meta discussion
im sorry finch thy second, but the goat, kyurem has full possession of OU
 
I'm all for banning sleep since it is incredibly uncompetitive for reasons discussed at large, though I must say few are highlighting the following sequence of events:

1) Drop Uber
2) Oh no it is uncompetitive
3) Send Uber back
3) Change a clause that has been on Smogon for over a decade iirc

Fuck sleep but god damn that is a weird turn of events, I guess Darkrai is indeed a fan favorite
it's less weird when you consider that the sleep clause discussion happens multiple times per gen, but it only tends to pick up steam either right before/after a gen starts or when nothing else in the meta is going on. this is the first time that sleep is showing itself as an active problem instead of just "yeah it's uncompetitive but kinda niche". now people are waking up to exactly how bullshit sleep is and even the niche sleepmons are picking up statistically significant amounts of usage. i'd wager that lower tiers and even earlier gens are going to be starting to see similar trends; although darkrai and valiant don't exist outside of gen 9 ou (and ubers), something like, say, red card amoonguss doesn't magically become less ridiculous by being in uu, or by being in gen 8 or 7 for that matter
 
The idea that only Hypnosis should be banned because it has 60% accuracy is so stupid I can't believe people are suggesting it unironically.

I know this teeters on strawmanning, but I have to say it to make a point: would OHKO moves suddenly be fine if they were 100% accurate by this logic?!? No, because their effects are still dumb. I shouldn't have to break down why the move being less consistent makes it more broken than the more consistent options.

Hypnosis does the same stupid things as Sleep Powder and Spore because Sleep is a broken mechanic. Just ban them all.
Let me explain why I think a hypnosis ban is a good first step out of two. It's the only truly inaccurate sleep move with distribution on good pokemon (No patrick, sleep powder is not inaccurate) and is also the only one to be causing problems. There's genuinely nothing more to it than that. I'm fully aware that it could be a bad move, but if it is, just like, ban sleep as a whole?
 
Ok should the opinion that “spore is less broken than hypnosis because hypnosis is less accurate” a direct reflection of the negative impacts sleep clause? Because that line of reasoning is attrocious tbh. Spore sacking is a real and reliable strategy, but you can’t do that with hypnosis. So it’s really because of sleep clause that makes it work, therefore, sleep clause removal > hypnosis imo.
 
Targeting Hypnosis is 100% a clear play to save Darkrai, Iron Valiant, and barely ATales to ignore sleep when Darkrai would just move to something 10% less accurate and other shitmons could instead slot sing or whatever
 
This discussion about Sleep Clause is really reminding me about Baton Pass and even Dynamax in Doubles OU.
Just ban all sleep moves. Stop trying to take half measures.
I know nothing about doubles, but weren't both of those significantly less strong than in singles? From what I've heard BP isn't great for vgc formats and dynamax was relatively healthy.
 
It's been said before, but with the survey coming up, I just want to reiterate some points from a few pages back regarding sleep. For most of the player base, discussion about sleep moves/sleep clause in Gen 9 OU did not start until Darkrai started running the move. And it's clear to see why. Just to break down why Darkrai, particularly the lead Focus Sash set, is the issue and not Sleep:
  1. The most meta status absorbers (Gliscor, Gholdengo) have losing matchups into Darkrai. Gholdengo in particular has strong matchups into Ninetales-Alola and Iron Valiant, the other strong users of Hypnosis.
  2. Lead Darkrai's speed tier + Focus Sash guarantees it is able to roll the Hypnosis lottery at least once. Iron Valiant must use Booster, removing a layer of security for missing Hypnosis.
  3. Darkrai has Nasty Plot. This means that it can boost its power at double the rate of CM Iron Valiant, the other offensive user of Hypnosis. (I have yet to see SD Hypnosis Valiant.)
  4. No other sleep move user is particularly strong at this time. Iron Valiant is the weakest it's ever been, and would rather have Encore or coverage in its last moveslot. Ninetales-Alola is similarly at an all-time low, and has opportunity cost in using Hypnosis (either allowing opposing weather to be set, not clicking Veil immediately, or wasting a Veil turn to roll for sleep). Amoonguss struggles to find targets for Spore in a Gliscor meta, and even if it does vs. Offense, Amoonguss cannot itself generate offensive pressure after landing its sleep move. Gholdengo is less popular than it used to be, but is nonetheless a huge hurdle for Valiant, A-Ninetales, and Amoonguss alike.
I have no issue with Sleep Clause not being perfectly replicable on cartridge. PS is a simulator, after all. Removing a status mechanic from the game because Sleep Clause is "unfaithful" to the cartridge experience is silly; Smogon's ban list is not even replicable on cartridge. Sleep is no more uncompetitive than paralysis, imo, but when used to exert offensive pressure, it elevates an otherwise balanced mon to uncompetitive levels. I see a Darkrai suspect as the correct move at this time, not a Sleep ban.
 
I know nothing about doubles, but weren't both of those significantly less strong than in singles? From what I've heard BP isn't great for vgc formats and dynamax was relatively healthy.
Baton Pass I was talking about for singles, and Dynamax being more “balanced” for doubles is a meme stemming from Dynamax being legal in VGC and VGC players having to suck it up.
Anyways in both cases it was a series of banning things indirectly before eventually banning Baton Pass/Dynamax.
For Baton Pass it was creating a bunch of complex clauses like limiting number of Baton Pass users to limiting stats you passed.
For Doubles Dynamax, they went as far to ban Beat Up + Justified and Weakness Policy.
 

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