Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

*AHEM*

Ladies and Gentlemen, Lebron James

:bw/Blaziken: @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Knock Off
- Close Combat
- Protect
- Overheat

252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 330-390 (104.1 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 385-455 (100.5 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 278-329 (92.3 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Iron Boulder: 289-341 (90 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 530-624 (135.5 - 159.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 398-471 (77.4 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(ting lu is fucked up wtf gamefreak)

4 SpA Life Orb Blaziken Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Iron Valiant: 333-394 (115.2 - 136.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Life Orb Blaziken Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 429-507 (113.4 - 134.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Life Orb Tera Fire Blaziken Overheat vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Gliscor: 330-390 (93.7 - 110.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Life Orb Tera Fire Blaziken Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 289-341 (73.3 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Tera Fire Blaziken Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 439-517 (101.1 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Jokes aside blaziken is really underrated at the moment. life orb sets can threaten an OHKO on most top meta threats, some just require 1 spike to guarantee the KO like iron boulder and ogerpon. For that reason it pairs really well with glimmora. Overheat nukes most pokemon that could stomach a flare blitz and without the nasty recoil and contact effects, allowing you to 2hko pokemon like glowking on the switch, and threaten OHKO on standard gliscor. Iron defense skarmory and corviknight think theyre safe but theyre not. Blaziken can 1v1 six of the top ten most used pokemon in OU. I'm excluding iron boulder from that because you need to have +3 speed to outspeed it and mighty cleave hits through protect, however it cannot switch in on you. Roaring moon, kingambit, great tusk and gholdengo are all fodder unless they tera (which protect helps scout). Archaludon needs max defense or a stamina boost to survive close combat (by then it will have taken chip damage already).

When Viability Rankings come out I'll be advocating for A/A- based on this set alone. Its definitely underexplored with sets like specs vacuum wave, solar beam/fire blast on sun, bulk up/ acrobatics on terrain etc. blaziken haters thought he fell off but stocks havent been this high since it was ubers. You COULD use upper hand to play mind games and 1v1 raging bolt but that requires maximum IQ. It also has a use against rain teams with aqua jet but im handling them fine as is with other team members.
I agree that special/mixed blaziken is underrated, but shouldn't you use flamethrower and invest some more ev's in sp.A? Your calcs show that it is kinda overkill on cc, and flamethrower allows for consistency, which is better on blaziken for a sweep.

12 SpA Life Orb Blaziken Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Valiant: 208-246 (71.9 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
244 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 382-452 (99.7 - 118%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
244 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 277-328 (92 - 108.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
12 SpA Life Orb Blaziken Flamethrower vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Gliscor: 173-204 (49.1 - 57.9%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
12 SpA Life Orb Blaziken Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 227-269 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

This is if you invest limited ev's, I would probably more do a Rash nature.
12+ SpA Life Orb Blaziken Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 251-296 (57.8 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
12+ SpA Life Orb Blaziken Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ogerpon-Wellspring: 156-185 (51.8 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
12+ SpA Life Orb Blaziken Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 165-195 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I still think this is a great set, but you kinda are limiting blaziken's opportunities with overheat. Flamethrower is more consistent, or you could do fire blast for great power but poor accuracy.
 
Anyone have good ideas for lure sets using like the opposite attacking side (which aren't valiant or dragapult)? Saw someone using special crawdaunt, so...?
 

j0nathan

formerly trainer_j0nathan
Anyone have good ideas for lure sets using like the opposite attacking side (which aren't valiant or dragapult)? Saw someone using special crawdaunt, so...?
Heatranator posted this Set a few days ago
Emboar @ Salac Berry
Ability: Blaze
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blast Burn/flamethrower
- Scald
- Endure
- Focus Blast
 

1LDK

Light Up The Night
is a Top Team Rater
*AHEM*

Ladies and Gentlemen, Lebron James

:bw/Blaziken: @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Knock Off
- Close Combat
- Protect
- Overheat

252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 330-390 (104.1 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 385-455 (100.5 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 278-329 (92.3 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Iron Boulder: 289-341 (90 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 530-624 (135.5 - 159.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 398-471 (77.4 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(ting lu is fucked up wtf gamefreak)

4 SpA Life Orb Blaziken Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Iron Valiant: 333-394 (115.2 - 136.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Life Orb Blaziken Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 429-507 (113.4 - 134.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Life Orb Tera Fire Blaziken Overheat vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Gliscor: 330-390 (93.7 - 110.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Life Orb Tera Fire Blaziken Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 289-341 (73.3 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Tera Fire Blaziken Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 439-517 (101.1 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Jokes aside blaziken is really underrated at the moment. life orb sets can threaten an OHKO on most top meta threats, some just require 1 spike to guarantee the KO like iron boulder and ogerpon. For that reason it pairs really well with glimmora. Overheat nukes most pokemon that could stomach a flare blitz and without the nasty recoil and contact effects, allowing you to 2hko pokemon like glowking on the switch, and threaten OHKO on standard gliscor. Iron defense skarmory and corviknight think theyre safe but theyre not. Blaziken can 1v1 six of the top ten most used pokemon in OU. I'm excluding iron boulder from that because you need to have +3 speed to outspeed it and mighty cleave hits through protect, however it cannot switch in on you. Roaring moon, kingambit, great tusk and gholdengo are all fodder unless they tera (which protect helps scout). Archaludon needs max defense or a stamina boost to survive close combat (by then it will have taken chip damage already).

When Viability Rankings come out I'll be advocating for A/A- based on this set alone. Its definitely underexplored with sets like specs vacuum wave, solar beam/fire blast on sun, bulk up/ acrobatics on terrain etc. blaziken haters thought he fell off but stocks havent been this high since it was ubers. You COULD use upper hand to play mind games and 1v1 raging bolt but that requires maximum IQ. It also has a use against rain teams with aqua jet but im handling them fine as is with other team members.
>The name of his set is Lebron James
>The set is ass

What did he meant by this

Anyone have good ideas for lure sets using like the opposite attacking side (which aren't valiant or dragapult)? Saw someone using special crawdaunt, so...?
Mix sets in general are not very good, your often sacrifice a lot just to get one mon, ans most of the time you dont even do that, its better to just maximize what you actually can do instead of pretending

With that said, mix rain abuser dnite is the exception, espeed, thunder, eq and hurricane, shits on most rain answers
 
I agree that special/mixed blaziken is underrated, but shouldn't you use flamethrower and invest some more ev's in sp.A? Your calcs show that it is kinda overkill on cc, and flamethrower allows for consistency, which is better on blaziken for a sweep.

12 SpA Life Orb Blaziken Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Valiant: 208-246 (71.9 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
244 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 382-452 (99.7 - 118%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
244 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 277-328 (92 - 108.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
12 SpA Life Orb Blaziken Flamethrower vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Gliscor: 173-204 (49.1 - 57.9%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
12 SpA Life Orb Blaziken Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 227-269 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

This is if you invest limited ev's, I would probably more do a Rash nature.
12+ SpA Life Orb Blaziken Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 251-296 (57.8 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
12+ SpA Life Orb Blaziken Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ogerpon-Wellspring: 156-185 (51.8 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
12+ SpA Life Orb Blaziken Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 165-195 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I still think this is a great set, but you kinda are limiting blaziken's opportunities with overheat. Flamethrower is more consistent, or you could do fire blast for great power but poor accuracy.
I generally don't think it will be a good idea to try using flamethrower on blaziken. Overheat serves as a lure to destroy any physical walls, and the wall of calcs (no pun intended) tommytt22 has provided emphasizes that. 2HKOing great tusk isn't enough because you can't be sure if the opponent is going to switch it in - overheat removes that element of prediction. Otherwise, you click knock/CC, tusk/some other wall comes in, eats the hit, and now doesn't die to flamethrower, whereas overheat would outright kill the physical wall and let you sweep. Also, Rash is strictly worse than Naughty for that set, because blaziken's base attack stat is higher than its special attack, so you could probably get either a higher attack or special attack by fiddling with EVs.

That's not a big deal though - IMO any wallbreaking blaziken sets that are not 252+ speed are iffy, because 252+ lets you outspeed the entire unboosted metagame apart from deoxys-s at +1, you hit 426 (max speed dragapult is 421.) Since blaziken is probably going to be switching around a lot early/mid game, you aren't usually going to have a chance to make use of boosts beyond +1 or +2, so that difference in speed really matters. 252+ also lets you outspeed booster valiant/moon at +2 and speed tie jolly scarf meow (neutral 'only' hits 518 speed, you are outsped by booster wake for example.)
 
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I generally don't think it will be a good idea to try using flamethrower on blaziken. Overheat serves as a lure to destroy any physical walls, and the wall of calcs (no pun intended) tommytt22 has provided emphasizes that. 2HKOing great tusk isn't enough because you can't be sure if the opponent is going to switch it in - overheat removes that element of prediction. Otherwise, you click knock/CC, tusk/some other wall comes in, eats the hit, and now doesn't die to flamethrower, whereas overheat would outright kill the physical wall and let you sweep. Also, Rash is strictly worse than Naughty for that set, because blaziken's base attack stat is higher than its special attack, so you could probably get either a higher attack or special attack by fiddling with EVs.

That's not a big deal though - IMO any wallbreaking blaziken sets that are not 252+ speed are iffy, because 252+ lets you outspeed the entire unboosted metagame apart from deoxys-s at +1, you hit 426 (max speed dragapult is 421.) Since blaziken is probably going to be switching around a lot early/mid game, you aren't usually going to have a chance to make use of boosts beyond +1 or +2, so that difference in speed really matters. 252+ also lets you outspeed booster valiant/moon at +2 and speed tie jolly scarf meow (neutral 'only' hits 518 speed, you are outsped by booster wake for example.)
It is also important to consider that even if Jolly at +2 Blaziken is still outsped by Booster Boulder and Scarf Darkrai
 
It is also important to consider that even if Jolly at +2 Blaziken is still outsped by Booster Boulder and Scarf Darkrai
Right, but that is part of why blaziken is not that popular atm. It is a touch too slow and weak - life orb sets really hate the prevalance of hazards, but blaziken without life orb is really weak. Even with jolly, it can't outspeed boulder at +2 (scarf darkrai sets can't threaten blaziken, they usually only run ice beam and dark pulse, though the darkrai user might still be in a position to kill with LO and hazard chip, blaziken's bulk is pretty terrible.)
 
Right, but that is part of why blaziken is not that popular atm. It is a touch too slow and weak - life orb sets really hate the prevalance of hazards, but blaziken without life orb is really weak. Even with jolly, it can't outspeed boulder at +2 (scarf darkrai sets can't threaten blaziken, they usually only run ice beam and dark pulse, though the darkrai user might still be in a position to kill with LO and hazard chip, blaziken's bulk is pretty terrible.)
Yeah I agree on this, just adding some calcs. A lot of Darkrais though do run Tera Blast Fairy or Thunderbolt, which may help to chip
 
Somebody on PokémonDB gave me an ingenious idea for a Iron Boulder set.


Iron Boulder @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Mighty Cleave
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Substitute

This set can get super out of hand easily. You can take advantage of Gliscor hard if you sack one of your mons for a free switch. You swap in,Tera Flying and Sub to avoid an Earthquake. Then set up until your opponent swaps out.

It keeps you safe from the three lethal priorities. You resist Grassy Glide, and if Sucker Punch or Thunderclap is threatened, you can sub in their face.

Really all your opponent can hope to do is phase you out with Sturdy Skarmory if you play it right, which really isn’t too hard.

Passive Mons like Toxapex and Clodsire also are perfect victims.
 
if you really wanted to see a meta where dirge shines, you should've checked out uu when it was there or ubers before the dlc dropped. it's good in ou, but it was amazing in ubers for being basically the only sort-of-consistent check to zacian-crowned before ho-oh showed up, and it was the only thing holding iron hands back in uu as well. skeledirge was, at one point, carrying two separate tiers on its back and neither one was ou
OI. Donbozo was out there in ubers walling every physical attacker better than Skeledirge could ever dream of, unfortunately (for cringe people who used it) it is water type which means miraidon eats it for breakfast
 

1LDK

Light Up The Night
is a Top Team Rater
Don't forget ChainChomp, the bringer of wonders
Chainchomp Pre DLC1 was the most overrated mon in this gen, because it was spammed so much it became the standard set, and thus, it lost the lure magic, it was bad in everything overall and was only used to secure rocks vs tusk (which is fairly easy to do in the first place). Once it regained Scale Shot and SD sets were put on the map again, it became better overall, but don't let the revisionism fool you, it sucked

252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 360-425 (82.9 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Doesn't even kill if rocks are down and it's only a 6.3% roll to kill, this is fucking pathethic and people were simping for this shit
 
Chainchomp Pre DLC1 was the most overrated mon in this gen, because it was spammed so much it became the standard set, and thus, it lost the lure magic, it was bad in everything overall and was only used to secure rocks vs tusk (which is fairly easy to do in the first place). Once it regained Scale Shot and SD sets were put on the map again, it became better overall, but don't let the revisionism fool you, it sucked

252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 360-425 (82.9 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Doesn't even kill if rocks are down and it's only a 6.3% roll to kill, this is fucking pathethic and people were simping for this shit

I mean, defensive Tusk outside of Stall is as terrible as ChainChomp, so not really the best example of a common Mon to beat.
 

1LDK

Light Up The Night
is a Top Team Rater
I mean, defensive Tusk outside of Stall is as terrible as ChainChomp, so not really the best example of a common Mon to beat.
Here is the calcs vs offensive tusk

252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 364-429 (83.8 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (12.5% chance to OHKO with rocks)

252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 364-429 (98.1 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO (guaranteed with rocks up)

better, but tbh its still sad
 
You thought that was the end of thy road? its only starting

IMG_2366.jpeg

coshufflion(disrupter)

Nuh uh (Cobalion) @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 80 SpD / 176 Spe
Calm Nature
- Taunt
- Thunder Wave
- Aura Sphere/stone edge/body press/flash cannon
- Roar/stealth rock/volt switch


taunt and thunder wave act as ways to mess up common leads like ting lu and hisuian samurott, roar forces a direct switch, which can tool set up attempts and also pairs well with hazards including its own stealth rocks, a careful nature can be used for sets using physical attacks

this set chooses to use evs in special defense as 386/294 physical bulk is quite solid and it outspeeds non scarf rillaboom and samurott with 176 evs in speed

forms a solid core with gliscor and special defense evs could be replaced with physical defense instead
 
Chainchomp Pre DLC1 was the most overrated mon in this gen, because it was spammed so much it became the standard set, and thus, it lost the lure magic, it was bad in everything overall and was only used to secure rocks vs tusk (which is fairly easy to do in the first place). Once it regained Scale Shot and SD sets were put on the map again, it became better overall, but don't let the revisionism fool you, it sucked

252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 360-425 (82.9 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Doesn't even kill if rocks are down and it's only a 6.3% roll to kill, this is fucking pathethic and people were simping for this shit
i am chainchomps biggest supporter i have how draco dented :great-tusk: :pelipper: and phys def :dondozo: and how fire blast dented :corviknight: and :amoonguss: (even more with tera fire) but still being physical w eq to deal with :clodsire:

i understand your reasoning but hop off my goat..
 
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Fusion Flare

i have hired this cat to stare at you
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 360-425 (82.9 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Doesn't even kill if rocks are down and it's only a 6.3% roll to kill, this is fucking pathethic and people were simping for this shit
Isn’t the idea of this just to get big damage on Tusk? You don’t need Rash on this to accomplish this thing’s goals, Naive works fine. Opening up Tusk facilitated something like a Gambit sweep regardless, especially if you hit an Earthquake before meteoring them.

I get that the spikebot sets and eventual scale shot sets were better but you gotta stop this nonsensical hate boner man
 
Isn’t the idea of this just to get big damage on Tusk? You don’t need Rash on this to accomplish this thing’s goals, Naive works fine. Opening up Tusk facilitated something like a Gambit sweep regardless, especially if you hit an Earthquake before meteoring them.

I get that the spikebot sets and eventual scale shot sets were better but you gotta stop this nonsensical hate boner man
Tera seller chain chomp seems like it would be pretty good as a breaker, similar to the flagon set that popped up earlier. Doing big damage to a couple threats to open up a sweep is very good in this meta
 
252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 360-425 (82.9 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Doesn't even kill if rocks are down and it's only a 6.3% roll to kill, this is fucking pathethic and people were simping for this shit
I could do the same thing with bloodmoon vs assault vest tyranitar in sand and say bloodmoon sucks, but we both know that's just untrue. This is like the rising to the middle part of the bellcurve meme where you think that KOs matter above all else and I'm like slightly above you where I've been enlightened about massive chip damage.
 

1LDK

Light Up The Night
is a Top Team Rater
Isn’t the idea of this just to get big damage on Tusk? You don’t need Rash on this to accomplish this thing’s goals, Naive works fine. Opening up Tusk facilitated something like a Gambit sweep regardless, especially if you hit an Earthquake before meteoring them.

I get that the spikebot sets and eventual scale shot sets were better but you gotta stop this nonsensical hate boner man
Rash was the nature that came on the calcs so i assumed its the standard

Also
Nah, id hate
 
I have already tested out one team and I am in the middle of testing the second. Lmao, I have truly become tempt6t. Wait, he beat ausma in a best of three, I may be more powerful than I thought.
We gonna get these heat niche teams soon?

...Also poll, what's the weakest hazard in your opinion right now.
 
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