Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

ngl this is gonna be tough one.
Firstly, I'd recommend like neutral speed nature. You get 176 Spe with Brave, which puts you even below uninvested Raging Bolt and speed ties uninvested Skarmory. At least give it 16 EVs so you outspeed Kingambit with neutral nature. That way you can Earthquake Kingambit while it hits you with a non-priority and can't flinch hax you with Iron Head.
Next I recommend 96 SpA. That is the minimum SpA required to guarantee an OHKO against max HP Great Tusk.
96 SpA Tera Normal Dragonite Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 434-512 (100 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And then in order to guarantee you can 2HKO Lead Deoxys-S with Earthquake -> Extreme Speed without Tera, you need exactly max Atk.
252+ Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed: 134-158 (55.6 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
Possible damage amounts: (134, 135, 137, 139, 140, 142, 143, 145, 146, 148, 150, 151, 153, 154, 156, 158)
252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed: 107-127 (44.3 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
Possible damage amounts: (107, 109, 110, 111, 113, 114, 115, 116, 118, 119, 120, 121, 123, 124, 125, 127)
134 + 107 = 241 or the HP Deoxys-S will have without investment.
You can invest 108 Spd to offset the minus nature making it 236 as if you didn't have a negative nature there.
Rest of the EVs going into HP just before a number divisible by 4 to minimize Stealth Rock damage, and then the last EV remaining going into Def.
End result looking like this.
Dragonite (F) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 96 SpA / 108 SpD / 16 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Earthquake
- Hurricane
- Thunder
- Extreme Speed
This is the most optimal EV spread I could come up with tbh and this just goes to show that optimal =/= viable.
Sorry to say this set is pretty awful. You need TONS of support for this to even function, from Rain to great hazard removal to making sure you can beat other walls you can't otherwise muscle through with how split you need to make the EVs.
Thanks! This set isn’t meant to sweep. It’s supposed to mess up things that check rain, like Raging Bolt, Water Absorb Clodsire(which I’ve been seeing way too much of lately), Toxapex, and Skarmory.

Da Team: https://pokepast.es/d5008e9161d1b156
 
Ok? Who gives a shit if you cant pack one team that has answers for everything? It's ridiculous that we've devolved to this point, where something's broken if you cant immediately stop it no matter what its running. You bring one or two checks, which overlap with other good parts of your team, and then when they bring something you didn't expect, suddenly its on the mon. Perhaps you and I simply have different measures on whats broken, but just because its somewhat difficult doesnt mean it cant be handled, much less that its invincible.
It's not about being able to answer everything. Even in a balanced metagame this isn't possible. But when there's such an overwhelming risk of losing based on match up as a result of being unable to account for it without constraining your teambuilding, there's an issue. You can still play around many versatile mons without needing to bend over backwards in the builder, using soft checks and smart play. A pokemon shouldn't be so polarizing because the checks to it are too different based on checks. We saw this last gen with Kyurem too. When there's not enough overlap in checks between its sets and the mon is naturally strong as is, one wrong move or giving it one turn can heavily swing a game momentum in the Kyurem's favor, and this is not really balanced at all.

Kyurem can be "handled" depending on set, but there simply is not enough overlap in checks for those sets and thus the constraint on builder is too much. A pokemon can still be a bad match up for a team but allow for room to be played around, but that's not always the case for pokemon who are unbalanced.
 
Can someone explain how to stop Volcarona? No, I am not using unaware. What is different about this mon to make suddenly not broken? It just Teras out of its weakness and is at +2/+2/+2 in the blink of an eye.
 
no, no, don't you get it, the way to improve a slightly unhealthy but mostly balanced tier is to introduce unambiguously broken pokemon into it. you know, it's like how doctors cure colds by injecting the patients with bubonic plague
Once upon a time, a Nobel Prize was awarded for showing how malaria could be used as a treatment for syphilis. At the time, the only treatment for syphilis was an extremely high fever, and malaria was the least-bad way to induce one.

On topic: what kind of team are you using that's getting flattened by Volc? What's your default answer when they've already spent tera?
 
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Can someone explain how to stop Volcarona? No, I am not using unaware. What is different about this mon to make suddenly not broken? It just Teras out of its weakness and is at +2/+2/+2 in the blink of an eye.
If it lacks Morning Sun, any chip damage you deal to it will stick & it will have difficulty getting to that +2 / +2 / +2 & maintain a sweep, esp with priority users such as DNite and Kingambit. Also still outsped by various booster mons.

Morning Sun variants are harder to deal with, but are hamstrung by the limited coverage. They practically will never break through Ting-Lu since none of these variants run Bug Buzz and have difficulty with various other threats depending on what coverage it runs such as Dragonite, Heatran, Toxapex, Moltres, etc. In the worst case, Tera Dragon or Fire on some mons can help patch up a Volcarona MU and let them revenge kill it.

Volcarona also hates every form of status and can't really setup completely safely even on its safest MUs. Stuff Serp and Rillaboom are risky Pokemon to switch into and setup on because of the threat of Glare or Knock Off.
 
Can someone explain how to stop Volcarona? No, I am not using unaware.
this is like asking "can someone explain to me how to lose weight? no, i am not going to eat well or exercise" or "how do i cure my depression? none of this therapy and medicine stuff, thanks". just use dirge or clod or whatever unawaremon people use these days, there's like a million of em. it's not the only method but it's by far the best and you're doing yourself a disservice as a player by restricting yourself from a specific strategy

as for non-unaware stuff, if you can draw out tera on something else, you can just go for band gouging fire and eat them before they can actually do anything, which is what i usually do. strong physical priority also works—gambit sucker punch in the late game shreds through volc like it does with just about everything else (and you can just predict and kowtow if it tries to get funny and click a status move), rillaboom grassy glide destroys tera ground sets, and dragonite can do its smash-hit showstopping impression of arceus and ddance + espeed. all of these have to watch out for wisp, morning sun, and flame body procs of course, but the trouble with running morning sun or wisp is that the more moves volc runs that don't immediately kill you, the more things defensively beat it. (plus, lum gambit is great for baiting them into a wisp expecting sucker punch, which gives you a free setup turn)
 
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Can someone explain how to stop Volcarona? No, I am not using unaware. What is different about this mon to make suddenly not broken? It just Teras out of its weakness and is at +2/+2/+2 in the blink of an eye.
Would :iron boulder: + :rillaboom: work to cover tera and no tera? +2/+2/+2 is no change to physical defence, so smack it hard.
(or as a niche option you can use :minior:)
 
Can someone explain how to stop Volcarona? No, I am not using unaware. What is different about this mon to make suddenly not broken? It just Teras out of its weakness and is at +2/+2/+2 in the blink of an eye.
no need to get salty about unaware mons. mixed def closdire has been my go-to guy forever. you also wall raging bolt. i run some defense instead of max HP because then you also hard wall zamazenta, you can decide on the mix. it easily beats volcarona with either rock slide or toxic if it teras. it also soaks up tspike which make it a great mon against glimmora HO builds.

252 SpA Tera Ground Volcarona Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 132 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 194-230 (44.7 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Dragon Pulse vs. 132 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 150-177 (34.5 - 40.7%) -- 52.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Enamorus Earth Power vs. 132 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 146-174 (33.6 - 40%) -- 32.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 132 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 106-126 (24.4 - 29%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

(you cant kill sub serperior BUT you absolutely can waste all 8 leaf storms)
 
I WAS JUST HIT BY PECHA BERRY TRICK GHOLDENGO oh my fucking god I've been completely bamboozled my poor gliscor MY POOR GLISCOR
It IS the most hilarious thing if it happened, so sorry for your loss.

Can someone explain how to stop Volcarona? No, I am not using unaware. What is different about this mon to make suddenly not broken? It just Teras out of its weakness and is at +2/+2/+2 in the blink of an eye.
I can't answer the first question, but to the best of my knowledge Volcarona is considered not broken anymore is because there are a lot of Dragon mons in the meta right now, which can take both Fire and Grass STAB (Grass tera was super popular before). This ended up making it diverse its Tera Type, which would make it lose to other specific match up (hehe Match up Moth). There is just a greater amount of bad MU for Volc rn than before, and that makes it harder to hit that sweet +2/+2/+2.
 
It IS the most hilarious thing if it happened, so sorry for your loss.
I was about to save the replay and then just forgot smh. Dude was in the 1300s running a team with Quick Attack Pikachu iirc so I didn't think much at first. Then I get my Gliscor in against Gholdengo for the first time in the battle, click Protect, skip to the end and then EQ and skip to the end, and I realise my Glisc isn't poisoned. We were in G-Terrain so I was wondering if it blocked status, but that's M-Terrain. Then I check the log and see that mans had tricked me a DAMN PECHA BERRY and I don't recall the specifics of the rest of the battle but losing the passive recovery definitely had an impact. I'm really not even mad, just extremely impressed. If the dude is around here, please manifest yourself, I need to see that set.
 
I WAS JUST HIT BY PECHA BERRY TRICK GHOLDENGO oh my fucking god I've been completely bamboozled my poor gliscor MY POOR GLISCOR
It's not real cooking until your flame is hot enough that it becomes a fire hazard for anyone unlucky enough to pass by!

For every hundred wannabe chefs who produce something utterly inedible, you get one or two people like this guy. A culinarian with tastes so refined, so exquisite, that he is completely certain of what he is going to serve as the main course.

In conclusion, and with love: lol get owned idiot
 
You are NOT breaking past any of them even with Thunder Punch.

252 Atk Protean Meowscarada Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 152-182 (38 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

And Corvo is the least physically bulky of the three. Your job as Scarf Meowscarada is not to wallbreak. Instead you're revenging would be faster threats like Booster Valiant or +1 Roaring Moon.
252 Atk Choice Band Protean Meowscarada Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 228-270 (57.1 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Protean Meowscarada Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 182-216 (59.8 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Protean Meowscarada Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 186-222 (55.6 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Meowscarada can perfectly break them, only issue is you must use the choice band set, which has its pros and cons.
 
I WAS JUST HIT BY PECHA BERRY TRICK GHOLDENGO oh my fucking god I've been completely bamboozled my poor gliscor MY POOR GLISCOR
pretty sure this was in lure that threat or something. Surprised someone actually brought it into a game though.
did they cure your poison, take your toxic orb and then poison another member? if that happened I would be howling with laughter.
 
What ubers? The only new ubers I could possibly see are Kyurem. Even then, the icicle either has to waste the tera to get rid of a check, or get wasted by said check. Valiant and Gholdengo, for example, do well against them, while also not being super omega busted themselves.
Are you insane? Roaring Moon has like 2 new answers (scarf meowscarada and weavile), neither of which fit on 100% of teams. Dondozo is super limited in what teams it fits on, Clodsire and Quagsire both suck ass, Scarf Deo-S is a fucking meme, and all scarfers except for deoxys-speed are outsped if you can get 2 ddances. Great tusk sort of walls but gets owned by spikes and fails to wall completely post tera. Roaring Moon needs to go.

I WAS JUST HIT BY PECHA BERRY TRICK GHOLDENGO oh my fucking god I've been completely bamboozled my poor gliscor MY POOR GLISCOR
Why are all of you pretending this is a new set, this was devised during DLC1 and it's just as funny now as it was back then (which is very)
 
pretty sure this was in lure that threat or something. Surprised someone actually brought it into a game though.
did they cure your poison, take your toxic orb and then poison another member? if that happened I would be howling with laughter.
Thankfully they didn't get to poison anyone else. I was still screaming tho. Don't ever really check that LTT thing so now I might start to.

Why are all of you pretending this is a new set, this was devised during DLC1 and it's just as funny now as it was back then (which is very)
First time I'm seeing this so sorry if this is old news however may I argue that having a LET HIM COOK moment done to me in real time was extremely mesmerising.
 

CobsonYaoi

formerly Holesum420
What's the best mon to use to deal with Enamorus? With Moonblast + Earth Power + Stellar Blast + Mystical Fire it hits everything pretty fuckin' hard, especially when it gets a free SpA boost everytime it uses Stellar Blast.
 
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First time I'm seeing this so sorry if this is old news however may I argue that having a LET HIM COOK moment done to me in real time was extremely mesmerising.
No I'm not talking to you when I say people are pretending the set is new, your moment was super funny and I'm very glad you shared it. I'm just surprised people (especially people who were in the DLC1 thread when the set was created) are saying that the set is new. Then again I'm just fucking weird and have a strangely good memory for things like that.
What's the best mon to use to deal with Enamorus? With Moonblast + Earth Power + Stellar Blast + Mystical Fire it hits everything pretty fuckin' hard, especially when it gets a free SpA boost everytime it uses Steller Blast.
I mean it's not boosting speed so you can kinda just kill it with something faster?
 
What's the best mon to use to deal with Enamorus? With Moonblast + Earth Power + Stellar Blast + Mystical Fire it hits everything pretty fuckin' hard, especially when it gets a free SpA boost everytime it uses Steller Blast.
It’d be Ho-oh
I’d say Blissey like always. You can threaten it with Thunder Wave and Calm Mind stalling Tera Blast out.
 

CobsonYaoi

formerly Holesum420
I mean it's not boosting speed so you can kinda just kill it with something faster?
Hmm true. Would Scizor work since it doesn't have to worry about Agility and Choice Scarf sets that pop up?
I’d say Blissey like always. You can threaten it with Thunder Wave and Calm Mind stalling Tera Blast out.
Thanks I never really considered using Blissey outside of stall teams.
 
Can someone explain how to stop Volcarona? No, I am not using unaware. What is different about this mon to make suddenly not broken? It just Teras out of its weakness and is at +2/+2/+2 in the blink of an eye.
Raging Bolt, Gouging Fire, Heatran, Rockpon, Waterpon, Dragonite, etc. all good ways of controlling it. Roaring Moon, Walking Wake, Rillaboom, Serprior, Ting Lu, and Clefable, Clodsire, Dondozo, and Skeledrige are are fairly conditional based on the tera-type. The obligatorily late Kingambit as well. Volcarona does as it always has, steal the matchup based on its tera-type and movepool; but it is not consistent enough to always get several QD boosts, and even when it does it can be impeded.

Additionally, if at this point you're unwilling to consider any of four viable pokemon with Unaware when teambuilding, it's not a meta problem. It's a you problem.
 
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