Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

TCTphantom

formerly MX42
Please let the Archaludon suspect test song be “Shot through the Heart” finch I’m begging you. I’m still not over Bad Moon Rising not being used for either moon based Mon test :psycry:
 
In no particular order:

Gouging Fire
Raging Bolt
Walking Wake
Gholdengo
Gliscor
Kingambit
Enamorus
Deoxys-S
Volcarona
Iron Boulder
Roaring Moon
Iron Valiant

OU Meta will be better if they go.
I think Archaludon is more oppressive than any of these. Storm Zone is a great player and I trust their opinion a lot, but rain is basically unbeatable right now without a perfect counter team that leaves you open to other archetypes.

Not that the council cares, but this is probably the least accessible the meta has been to new/mid level players. It’s extremely difficult/impossible to build anything outside of HO/offense.
 
I think Archaludon is more oppressive than any of these. Storm Zone is a great player and I trust their opinion a lot, but rain is basically unbeatable right now without a perfect counter team that leaves you open to other archetypes.
Won,t currently explain why I think Archaludon is balanced/less broken than my list (since this would trigger long discussion I want to avoid right now), but just to be clear, I arrived to this conclusion completely independently of Storm Zone. In fact, I tend to disagree with 90% of Storm Zone takes when he posts in meta threads like this one.
 
I don't think it's even particularly good at that, its STAB moves (main offender zen Headbutt) are so weak and bad and it doesn't get stab from the attacks it actually wants to click, earthquake and CC, so it feels like it's always coming up short before SD, so it has to take chip to get the SD up, putting it into priority range. Worlds worst defensive presence on all accounts and the type also really does it no favors offensively. Boulder always feels like the odd one out on those teams with Roaring Moon, Volc, etc. Still good as a sack at least. Maybe eeveeto can explain what he means? Overall very confused how one can arrive at the conclusion "don't ban Archaludon, ban Enamorus and Boulder"
Mighty cleave is insanely powerful, but other than that the STAB is a bit lacking (zen headbut has a literal 57% accuracy for me).
 
Please let the Archaludon suspect test song be “Shot through the Heart” finch I’m begging you. I’m still not over Bad Moon Rising not being used for either moon based Mon test :psycry:
i think it should be either "london bridge is falling down" or "bridge" by queensrÿche

also, i think you might be thinking of "you give love a bad name". "shot through the heart" is a different bon jovi song
 
Won,t currently explain why I think Archaludon is balanced/less broken than my list (since this would trigger long discussion I want to avoid right now), but just to be clear, I arrived to this conclusion completely independently of Storm Zone. In fact, I tend to disagree with 90% of Storm Zone takes when he posts in meta threads like this one.
Fair, but could you at least provide a check/counter to Arch that doesn’t involve a trade?
 
Personally the music for Archaludon's suspect test should be the opening to Archer.
Quicky but the name fits as "Archerudon" or something.
 
Fair, but could you at least provide a check/counter to Arch that doesn’t involve a trade?
Will only consider the AV set + Rain (outside of Rain no one is even seriously believing Arch is broken).

1. Sdef Clodsire (preferably with Leftovers over Boots).
2.


Lord Buckethead (Ting-Lu) @ Leftovers
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
Tera Type: Water (Tera can change to fit the team)
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Whirlwind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Standard Hazards Ting Lu is big unviable trash no one should ever use, this is the optimal Ting Lu set, just find some other Hazard setters to pair it. Stops Archaludon well enough.

3.

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
Tera Type: Whatever you want.
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind

252+ SpA Archaludon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 201-237 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (which doesn,t actually happen due to the drop).

Removes the Rain. If Arch goes for Electro Shot, it gets trapped, Hippo can choose whether do damage with EQ or use WW.

4.

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Whatever you want.
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD (could change depending on the team)
Sassy Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge
- Grass Knot

Set worked in pre-DLC Meta. Didn,t use it now, but probably still works if you build specific teams that require it.

5. Glowking. Doesn,t actually kill Arch (except with AV + Focus Blast, but I consider that suboptimal and very unreliable), but will either use TW or pivot out removing the Rain and allowing some powerful breaker to come and kill Arch.

6. Band Zamazenta (which can be paired with the above Slowking, but works even without it):
252+ SpA Archaludon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zamazenta: 201-237 (61.8 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 204 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 440-522 (118.2 - 140.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I don,t consider this a trade, Zamazenta is so fast that it can come later in the game to contribute again. Arch can Tera, sure, but so does any Mon.

Only included OU Mons and only those that don,t trade and have enough HP remaining to contribute later in the game.

Also, will put a 7:

Several Kyurem sets if the Mon somehow survives. It won,t ever come on Archaludon itself, but it eats Rain teams for breakfast in general, with or without a Glowking as a partner.
 

658Greninja

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Lord Buckethead (Ting-Lu) @ Leftovers
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
Tera Type: Water (Tera can change to fit the team)
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Whirlwind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Standard Hazards Ting Lu is big unviable trash no one should ever use, this is the optimal Ting Lu set, just find some other Hazard setters to pair it. Stops Archaludon well enough.
“Standard hazards Ting-Lu is big unviable trash no one should ever use”

Not even close to true. Its like saying SD Gambit is garbage and ppl should use SR + T-Wave instead.
 
Lord Buckethead (Ting-Lu) @ Leftovers
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
Tera Type: Water (Tera can change to fit the team)
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Whirlwind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Standard Hazards Ting Lu is big unviable trash no one should ever use, this is the optimal Ting Lu set,
i so badly want to like your post because i also don't believe archaludon is broken but this is the most ridiculous take i've seen in the past week and that includes the people in traineraid unironically defending cannibalism
 

TCTphantom

formerly MX42
i think it should be either "london bridge is falling down" or "bridge" by queensrÿche

also, i think you might be thinking of "you give love a bad name". "shot through the heart" is a different bon jovi song
Oh i know, I just wanted a Bon Jovi suspect song. Its like how if (keyword if) we suspected Raging Bolt, I would go with Thunder Road as the song for the boss.

Suspect Songs for sh*ts and giggles (I would only test a certain piece of infrastructure rn)
:archaludon: Shot Through the Heart - Bon Jovi
:gouging fire: Fire - The Crazy World of Arthur Brown
:raging bolt: Thunder Road - Bruce Springsteen
:roaring moon: Bad Moon Rising - CCR
:enamorus: Killing My Love - Leslie Parrish
:kingambit: Emperor's New Clothes - Panic at the Disco
:gholdengo: Money - Pink Floyd
:volcarona: Walking on the Sun - Smash Mouth

------

If (bad idea do not debate this please for my sanity) we tested anything dropping
:zamazenta crowned: The Wolf -Siames
:ogerpon hearthflame: My Favorite Game - The Cardigans
:urshifu rapid strike: Kung Fu Fighting - Carl Douglas
 
Oh i know, I just wanted a Bon Jovi suspect song. Its like how if (keyword if) we suspected Raging Bolt, I would go with Thunder Road as the song for the boss.

Suspect Songs for sh*ts and giggles (I would only test a certain piece of infrastructure rn)
:archaludon: Shot Through the Heart - Bon Jovi
:gouging fire: Fire - The Crazy World of Arthur Brown
:raging bolt: Thunder Road - Bruce Springsteen
:roaring moon: Bad Moon Rising - CCR
:enamorus: Killing My Love - Leslie Parrish
:kingambit: Emperor's New Clothes - Panic at the Disco
:gholdengo: Money - Pink Floyd
:volcarona: Walking on the Sun - Smash Mouth

------

If (bad idea do not debate this please for my sanity) we tested anything dropping
:zamazenta crowned: The Wolf -Siames
:ogerpon hearthflame: My Favorite Game - The Cardigans
:urshifu rapid strike: Kung Fu Fighting - Carl Douglas
okay, if we drop :annihilape: in gen 10 it has to be Believer - Imagine Dragons because Ape's viability is literally made from pain.
(and in lower tiers, if :florges: is ever banned, Flowers - Miley Cyrus)
 
Oh i know, I just wanted a Bon Jovi suspect song. Its like how if (keyword if) we suspected Raging Bolt, I would go with Thunder Road as the song for the boss.

Suspect Songs for sh*ts and giggles (I would only test a certain piece of infrastructure rn)
:archaludon: Shot Through the Heart - Bon Jovi
:gouging fire: Fire - The Crazy World of Arthur Brown
:raging bolt: Thunder Road - Bruce Springsteen
:roaring moon: Bad Moon Rising - CCR
:enamorus: Killing My Love - Leslie Parrish
:kingambit: Emperor's New Clothes - Panic at the Disco
:gholdengo: Money - Pink Floyd
:volcarona: Walking on the Sun - Smash Mouth

------

If (bad idea do not debate this please for my sanity) we tested anything dropping
:zamazenta crowned: The Wolf -Siames
:ogerpon hearthflame: My Favorite Game - The Cardigans
:urshifu rapid strike: Kung Fu Fighting - Carl Douglas
all right but have you considered:
:archaludon: the body electric - rush
:gouging fire: one little victory - rush
:raging bolt: jacob's ladder - rush
:roaring moon: between sun and moon - rush
:enamorus: the speed of love - rush
:kingambit: a farewell to kings - rush
:gholdengo: the big money - rush
:volcarona: mission - rush
 
Oh i know, I just wanted a Bon Jovi suspect song. Its like how if (keyword if) we suspected Raging Bolt, I would go with Thunder Road as the song for the boss.

Suspect Songs for sh*ts and giggles (I would only test a certain piece of infrastructure rn)
:archaludon: Shot Through the Heart - Bon Jovi
:gouging fire: Fire - The Crazy World of Arthur Brown
:raging bolt: Thunder Road - Bruce Springsteen
:roaring moon: Bad Moon Rising - CCR
:enamorus: Killing My Love - Leslie Parrish
:kingambit: Emperor's New Clothes - Panic at the Disco
:gholdengo: Money - Pink Floyd
:volcarona: Walking on the Sun - Smash Mouth

------

If (bad idea do not debate this please for my sanity) we tested anything dropping
:zamazenta crowned: The Wolf -Siames
:ogerpon hearthflame: My Favorite Game - The Cardigans
:urshifu rapid strike: Kung Fu Fighting - Carl Douglas
Could easily fit in In the Court of the Crimson King for :Kingambit:
 
Last edited:
Will only consider the AV set + Rain (outside of Rain no one is even seriously believing Arch is broken).

1. Sdef Clodsire (preferably with Leftovers over Boots).
2.


Lord Buckethead (Ting-Lu) @ Leftovers
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
Tera Type: Water (Tera can change to fit the team)
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Whirlwind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Standard Hazards Ting Lu is big unviable trash no one should ever use, this is the optimal Ting Lu set, just find some other Hazard setters to pair it. Stops Archaludon well enough.

3.

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
Tera Type: Whatever you want.
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind

252+ SpA Archaludon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 201-237 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (which doesn,t actually happen due to the drop).

Removes the Rain. If Arch goes for Electro Shot, it gets trapped, Hippo can choose whether do damage with EQ or use WW.

4.

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Whatever you want.
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD (could change depending on the team)
Sassy Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge
- Grass Knot

Set worked in pre-DLC Meta. Didn,t use it now, but probably still works if you build specific teams that require it.

5. Glowking. Doesn,t actually kill Arch (except with AV + Focus Blast, but I consider that suboptimal and very unreliable), but will either use TW or pivot out removing the Rain and allowing some powerful breaker to come and kill Arch.

6. Band Zamazenta (which can be paired with the above Slowking, but works even without it):
252+ SpA Archaludon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zamazenta: 201-237 (61.8 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 204 HP / 0 Def Archaludon: 440-522 (118.2 - 140.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I don,t consider this a trade, Zamazenta is so fast that it can come later in the game to contribute again. Arch can Tera, sure, but so does any Mon.

Only included OU Mons and only those that don,t trade and have enough HP remaining to contribute later in the game.

Also, will put a 7:

Several Kyurem sets if the Mon somehow survives. It won,t ever come on Archaludon itself, but it eats Rain teams for breakfast in general, with or without a Glowking as a partner.
I appreciate your post and will definitely try some of these out! Tbh I think if you need to use max SpD AV Lando or Hippowdon, then that’s a sign a Mon needs to go lol.
 
i so badly want to like your post because i also don't believe archaludon is broken but this is the most ridiculous take i've seen in the past week and that includes the people in traineraid unironically defending cannibalism
what’s your reasoning behind it not being broken? Interested to hear your thoughts. There are so few checks in rain, I have trouble believing it’s not problematic. It’s so difficult to switch in and out of without taking huge chip.
 

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