Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

Question of genuine curiosity. Why couldn't we ban Terapagos-stellar and it not count as a complex ban? It is effectively a new form like a mega evolution so could the form not be singled out for a ban like how mega Rayquaza was able to be banned from ubers but dragon ascent wasn't banned on it. Would be the equivalent of a gentleman on cartrige.
Because Terapagos would be the only mon banned from using a generational mechanic that everything else can use
 
I mean, I don't want to get into another discussion about whether gambit is banworthy again, but we can all agree it's contreversial. So you saying that just confirms that it is at least banworthy.

Well, would you look at that.
Ive never said Terapagos might not be banworthy, all im saying is QB it seems irrational giving its short time live.

Hell I dont even really like playing the turtle.

A ban is imminent.
Saw the QB, I have lost all faith in the council.
It might have been worth the ban? Yes, but maybe no. There was no hurry at all, this wasnt Regieleki, which god speed and perfect coverage.

Impatient and disrespectful to the playerbase, taking away any chance of opposition or critique.

No longer a council, now its the OU Monarchy
 
Ive never said Terapagos might not be banworthy, all im saying is QB it seems irrational giving its short time live.

Hell I dont even really like playing the turtle.



Saw the QB, I have lost all faith in the council.
It might have been worth the ban? Yes, but maybe no. There was no furry at all, this wasnt Regieleki, which god speed and perfect coverage.

Impatient and disrespectful to the playerbase, taking away any chance of opposition or critique.

No longer a council, now its the OU Monarchy
Bruh, just stop now please. It's getting embarrassing.
 
Because Terapagos would be the only mon banned from using a generational mechanic that everything else can use
Doesn't Terapagos already receive tera benefits in its Pre-Stellar form anyway? So from a technical standpoint wouldn't it be that Terapagos is the only mon with access to the generational mechanic once Tera gets banned if Tera gets banned?
 

Da Pizza Man

Pizza Time
is a Pre-Contributor
Question of genuine curiosity. Why couldn't we ban Terapagos-stellar and it not count as a complex ban? It is effectively a new form like a mega evolution so could the form not be singled out for a ban like how mega Rayquaza was able to be banned from ubers but dragon ascent wasn't banned on it. Would be the equivalent of a gentleman on cartrige.
I don't remember where this post was and I'm too lazy to search for it, but Finchinator brought up how this example really doesn't work since Ubers is generally a lot more flexible when it comes to complex bans, which is largely a result of them having a much higher threshold for what is considered banworthy. OU doesn't have the same flexibility, so you really had to go with a full-on ban like they did just based on how its tiering policy works.

Saw the QB, I have lost all faith in the council.
It might have been worth the ban? Yes, but maybe no. There was no furry at all, this wasnt Regieleki, which god speed and perfect coverage.

Impatient and disrespectful to the playerbase, taking away any chance of opposition or critique.

No longer a council, now its the OU Monarchy
Literally everyone with even a shred of credibility was calling for Terapagos to be banned. Stfu and stop trying to make an issue out of nothing.
 
I think terapagos was banned way too fast, based on how “OP” it felt.

whilst it definitely is OP as far as the meta is right now, it could take some time for the meta to settle from the current HO fest which metas tend to start in.

terapagos looked much better than it actually is due to the HO meta

at the end of the day, it’s Tera reliant, Tera is a high commitment play, it’s Tera is predictable, it doesn’t lose the fighting weakness, it can be checked with phasing moves and has a hard time setting up again, and it’s non setup sets hadn’t been determined as broken yet.

definitely rash and fast decision. This isn’t comparable to eleki or magearna at all.

I would argue it doesn’t even compare to Kingambit, who is allegedly okay because it helped check other broken Pokémon’s
 
Ive never said Terapagos might not be banworthy, all im saying is QB it seems irrational giving its short time live.
I'm actually going to challenge this. If a Pokemon is 99% to be banned at some point in the near future, you should basically always rip the bandaid off as soon as possible. What is gained from letting it sit in the tier, maybe stumbling into the 1% that it actually isn't horribly broken? And sure, it's fun to play with the horribly broken stuff that is allowed during the early hours of a meta, but that gets old fast and it isn't as if you can't play them in Ubers. Neither of those seem remotely worth the trade off of stifling the meta from developing when you have such an overwhelming presence warping it.
 
I think terapagos was banned way too fast, based on how “OP” it felt.

whilst it definitely is OP as far as the meta is right now, it could take some time for the meta to settle from the current HO fest which metas tend to start in.

terapagos looked much better than it actually is due to the HO meta

at the end of the day, it’s Tera reliant, Tera is a high commitment play, it’s Tera is predictable, it doesn’t lose the fighting weakness, it can be checked with phasing moves and has a hard time setting up again, and it’s non setup sets hadn’t been determined as broken yet.

definitely rash and fast decision. This isn’t comparable to eleki or magearna at all.

I would argue it doesn’t even compare to Kingambit, who is allegedly okay because it helped check other broken Pokémon’s
Did Kingambit like, somehow mug you and the other dude IRL or something for you both to act like it's somehow massively more broken then the turtle????
 

xavgb

:xavgb:
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World Defender
can you go a little more in-depth into what makes scarf darkrai so good? i don't doubt you, i'm just curious what the factors are that's making scarf darkrai better than running it with nasty plot (which i, personally, have had a lot of success with, although of course i'm not playing on high ladder)
Basically there's a lot of speedy dudes around threatening to win games in offense vs offense matchups, so it's a bit hard to commit to running something like LO NP Rai because each playstyle has some kind of out. Offense is gonna revenge kill you pretty easily after all the chip you take, and balance can use its natural bulk across the team to stay in positions where you can always attack the Rai on setup, then it's usually just a case of sacking and revenge killing, since it wont be able to repeat the same sequence of setting up in front of a mon it doesnt kill later. Balance's large focus on hazards basically ensures that some gameplan like this will be possible, as well as Ting-Lu being able to live any one (non-Tera hit), and this is before u even get into the possibility of defensive teraing etc. There's a lot of different types of trades that work well when using balance into a mon like this, because you're basically looking to trade roughly one mon (that you get to choose) in exchange for not losing to their most competent breaker. Boots NP Rai can solve some of these issues to an extent, but then the singular STAB that also only has 80 BP becomes very noticeable in terms of never forcing anything out properly. In general for the realm of fast mons, Zamazenta and Pult are both legit cleaners that can bring a lot of utility to a team, whereas Rai is stuck as this weird hybrid of not being as good of a cleaner as Zama/Pult, while also not being reliable enough at breaking to confidently fill that role.

Scarf Rai basically gives up on trying to sweep entirely, but instead it gets to tap into its large utility movepool to find uses in every type of matchup. Its speed tier is enough to outspeed Iron Boulder and +1 Moon which goes a long way to being able to beat those mons, and against balance it can almost always Trick away into a Boots mon, since it deters both Gholdengo and Gliscor with its two attacking moves (Pulse + Ice Beam).Trick also provides an out to various cheese mons which is useful right now because the Encore mons that we'd usually use for this are becoming less common. Typically I run Wisp as the last move, this allows you to come back in at the end of an offense game to Wisp the Gambit, as well as giving you an option to cripple Zamazenta in certain situations. Scarf Rai still has a similar set of weaknesses to other Rai sets (single weak STAB), but it compensates for this by focusing on roles that don't require as much power.
 
I think terapagos was banned way too fast, based on how “OP” it felt.

whilst it definitely is OP as far as the meta is right now, it could take some time for the meta to settle from the current HO fest which metas tend to start in.

terapagos looked much better than it actually is due to the HO meta

at the end of the day, it’s Tera is predictable, it doesn’t lose the fighting weakness, it can be checked with phasing moves and has a hard time setting up again, and it’s non setup sets hadn’t been determined as broken yet.

definitely rash and fast decision. This isn’t comparable to eleki or magearna at all.
Fax. But I did talk to xavgb on discord and he mentioned that this Pokemon was specifically too oppressive vs HO archetypes. A majority of the best answers were found on balance teams, specifically stuff like Toxapex, Clodsire, phazing, etc which aren't commonly run on HO. Terapagos would have largely forced a "balance only" metagame.

I didn't use a single HO team so far which is probably why this mon didn't feel OP Regardless though, I do agree this mon isn't comparable to Eleki or Magearna & the Tera lock are noticeable weaknesses. Nonetheless, what's done is done.

So long Terapagos, you will be missed.
 
Well terapagos was canonically described as going extinct in it's dex entry, I guess it had to happen eventually. Although being stuck with just tusk as a main spinner ain't that bad, he's him after all. And people can use defensive tera without dying instantly to a tera star storm as well, overall for the best
 
Given we are likely in for the Weather Wars for a bit, I'm wondering how well ATales and Kyurem are going to act as besties while simultaneously not allowing the johto and rain boys to get their free setup.
Oh Kyurem already loves having Ninetales-A around. It has 125/90/90 bulk and does nearly the same thing Baxcalibur did (although more reliant on Tera so it can hit the Steels easier).
 

KamenOH

formerly DynamaxBestMeta
Well terapagos was canonically described as going extinct in it's dex entry, I guess it had to happen eventually. Although being stuck with just tusk as a main spinner ain't that bad, he's him after all. And people can use defensive tera without dying instantly to a tera star storm as well, overall for the best
does smeargle sketch it?

Ive never said Terapagos might not be banworthy, all im saying is QB it seems irrational giving its short time live.

Hell I dont even really like playing the turtle.



Saw the QB, I have lost all faith in the council.
It might have been worth the ban? Yes, but maybe no. There was no hurry at all, this wasnt Regieleki, which god speed and perfect coverage.

Impatient and disrespectful to the playerbase, taking away any chance of opposition or critique.

No longer a council, now its the OU Monarchy
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you know, wolf is right.
We need to unban Terapagos to let it cook. While we're at it, unban Miraidon, Koraidon, Zacian-C, and Ho-oh too.
Miraidon is countered by Ting-Lu and Iron Treads
Koraidon is countered by Skeledirge and Phy bulky Clefable
Zacian-C is countered by Skeledirge and Phy bulky Clodsire
and Ho-oh is countered by Gargancl
Obviously all these are fine to drop into OU and are perfectly countered by these Pokemon which I vaguely claim are counters simply because they counter the most common sets.
Just ignore the fact that these Pokemon can usually run coverage to beat their checks easily, require you to keep these Pokemon healthy the entire game, and require you to make perfect plays in order to simply not lose.
 

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