Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

viivian

beep boop
is a Tiering Contributor
people are so desperate for one that they're turning physical grounds into special ones even though they're very clearly built to be physical. first treads, now lando, it's only a matter of time until people start slapping earth power on gliscor and tusk. i just don't get it. i understand why it was a thing during the arch days, but is it really that necessary for gouging? or is there something else i'm missing? are they that scared of dondozo? glimmora? someone please explain why the mon with base 145 attack isn't using it because i'm just confused
landorus-T usually runs grass knot and a relaxed nature if it wants to beat dondozo, no earth power needed. the reason why it runs earth power is because it can efficiently anti-lead glimmora and beats bulky gouging fire and ID zamazenta. while lando-T doesn't always run earth power, if you wanna patch up your team's MU against the aforementioned pokemon then it doesn't hurt to have. tho i will say running EP on landorus-T isn't particularly new, since it tends to run mixed or special sets when paired w/ rillaboom or tapu bulu in previous gens

as for iron treads, steel beam lets it kill itself fast after setting/removing hazards and smacking great tusk super hard is probably a big deal too. i've seen and used special iron treads since DLC1 (albeit only sparingly since it wasn't very good then) and it's genuinely a pretty cool set
 
Why is the mon with 145/105/91 offenses mostly known for its defensive sets?
With Intimidate, it has psuedo 158~ Def, in addition to having a great defensive typing. Most teams like having bulky ground type for Electric spam, but Landorus-T does that while also providing Ground immunity and Fighting resistance, and having only 2 weaknesses (covered by Water most of the time).
 
I dont know what gxe is I guess I thought it was win percentage? And so I thought 30 x .84 = 25.2 so 26 out of 30? Is there a resource that breaks it down?
In the ladder help page, they define Gxe as
"GXE (Glicko X-Act Estimate) is an estimate of your win chance against an average ladder player."
https://pokemonshowdown.com/pages/ladderhelp
This is the page, it doen't explain how to calculate gxe, but there most likely is something that breaks it down. I would most likely just continue to play games and check after every game to see when you reach 80% gxe.
 
In the ladder help page, they define Gxe as
"GXE (Glicko X-Act Estimate) is an estimate of your win chance against an average ladder player."
https://pokemonshowdown.com/pages/ladderhelp
This is the page, it doen't explain how to calculate gxe, but there most likely is something that breaks it down. I would most likely just continue to play games and check after every game to see when you reach 80% gxe.
No, with 73 GXE, peepeepoopoo722 would need to win many, many matches in a row to reach the required GXE. I would recommend starting over from scratch, as you'd need to be an elite player to recover from having 73 GXE.
 
I want to make a post discussing the effects of the Kyurem suspect; namely I think that Kyurem is still a problem and is still way too constraining, and the no ban result was a mistake. I'd argue Kyurem is mostly difficult for balance archetypes, but it shreds it like no other. Freeze dry/ground coverage is just way too strong, and it makes bulky waters just a lot less good defensively then usual, because whereas previously waters were the only type able to switch into ice/ground coverage, now that's gotten rid of, making ICE the only type that doesn't get blanked by it, and that's forgetting for a second that Kyurem still has STAB draco meteors it can throw out off of 130 SpA. As well, for a mon this offensively threatening, its quite bulky, with 125 HP/90defense/spd being really nice, and despite the fact that it's an ice type, ice/dragon is a surprisingly not awful defensive combo; water/grass/electric resistances are still quite solid, it gets a defense boost in snow, and base 90 speed means it is still outspeeding a lot of stuff like Tusk and Ghold.
Case-in-point here, I need to ask what's actually a good defensive check to Kyurem, especially on balance; on stall you have Blissey, but blissey only fits on stall. Really its down to bulkarona and Glowking, and while they're both good mons in their own right, they still aren't as strong of a check as you want, especially if it teras. As well, Volc is arguably unhealthy in its effect on the meta anyways. But really you have 3 defensive checks for fatter structures, otherwise you need to rely on offensively checking Kyurem. It's a bit like Wellspring in that regard, where its close to unwallable, although wellspring comes with worse stab coverage but better speed and SD; at least with wellspring something can tera grass though.
Overall, I just really hope Kyurem gets another suspect test at some point, mf is crazy
 
Bummed out ngl but will keep grinding.. And yeah- I won two more games and each only raised by a percentage to 75.1% so not looking great- I'm probably looking at like 5-6 more games needing wins and if I lose once I'll probably give up and not make another run lol maybe I will but definitely discouraging.

Iron Crown is pretty good as my only very offensive oriented mon on an otherwise thicc team.. Can sweep a lot of teams once gambit is gone, if I happen to get rid of it before the end

 
I want to make a post discussing the effects of the Kyurem suspect; namely I think that Kyurem is still a problem and is still way too constraining, and the no ban result was a mistake. I'd argue Kyurem is mostly difficult for balance archetypes, but it shreds it like no other. Freeze dry/ground coverage is just way too strong, and it makes bulky waters just a lot less good defensively then usual, because whereas previously waters were the only type able to switch into ice/ground coverage, now that's gotten rid of, making ICE the only type that doesn't get blanked by it, and that's forgetting for a second that Kyurem still has STAB draco meteors it can throw out off of 130 SpA. As well, for a mon this offensively threatening, its quite bulky, with 125 HP/90defense/spd being really nice, and despite the fact that it's an ice type, ice/dragon is a surprisingly not awful defensive combo; water/grass/electric resistances are still quite solid, it gets a defense boost in snow, and base 90 speed means it is still outspeeding a lot of stuff like Tusk and Ghold.
Case-in-point here, I need to ask what's actually a good defensive check to Kyurem, especially on balance; on stall you have Blissey, but blissey only fits on stall. Really its down to bulkarona and Glowking, and while they're both good mons in their own right, they still aren't as strong of a check as you want, especially if it teras. As well, Volc is arguably unhealthy in its effect on the meta anyways. But really you have 3 defensive checks for fatter structures, otherwise you need to rely on offensively checking Kyurem. It's a bit like Wellspring in that regard, where its close to unwallable, although wellspring comes with worse stab coverage but better speed and SD; at least with wellspring something can tera grass though.
Overall, I just really hope Kyurem gets another suspect test at some point, mf is crazy
The way to deal with kyurem is offensive pressure. Specs sets are weak to hazards, so using those limits it's turns. HDB sets have less power and are easier to wall, but for both out offensing it is best.
I also think kyurem is broken, but it definitely isn't the most broken thing in the tier.
 
The way to deal with kyurem is offensive pressure. Specs sets are weak to hazards, so using those limits it's turns. HDB sets have less power and are easier to wall, but for both out offensing it is best.
I also think kyurem is broken, but it definitely isn't the most broken thing in the tier.
Oh it's absolutely not the most broken thing in the tier lmao, and I also doubt it gets another suspect for awhile. it's just annoying
 
Bummed out ngl but will keep grinding.. And yeah- I won two more games and each only raised by a percentage to 75.1% so not looking great- I'm probably looking at like 5-6 more games needing wins and if I lose once I'll probably give up and not make another run lol maybe I will but definitely discouraging.

Iron Crown is pretty good as my only very offensive oriented mon on an otherwise thicc team.. Can sweep a lot of teams once gambit is gone, if I happen to get rid of it before the end

im not a consistent player but I tend to do gxe runs as practice more than gunning for reqs. i make new accounts, hit 30 and see my gxe and w/l and save my replays. not super useful if youre busy though like i am rn LOL but helped me go from low ladder to being a pretty consistent mid ladder player.

reqs require so much effort sometimes its better to put them off so you dont burn out imo, especially if you get discouraged quickly
 
people are so desperate for one that they're turning physical grounds into special ones even though they're very clearly built to be physical. first treads, now lando, it's only a matter of time until people start slapping earth power on gliscor and tusk. i just don't get it. i understand why it was a thing during the arch days, but is it really that necessary for gouging? or is there something else i'm missing? are they that scared of dondozo? glimmora? someone please explain why the mon with base 145 attack isn't using it because i'm just confused
I guess because there aren't other Special Ground-type attackers that are decently fast, like Nidoking/Nidoqueen would be amazing in this meta
 
I guess because there aren't other Special Ground-type attackers that are decently fast, like Nidoking/Nidoqueen would be amazing in this meta
I don't think so. Nidoking might have some viability by being faster than Gholdengo, but Nidoqueen would really struggle in OU since neither its stats or typing would be all that useful in SV OU. Nidoqueen would check far too few mons for it to actually pull its weight.
 
I don't think so. Nidoking might have some viability by being faster than Gholdengo, but Nidoqueen would really struggle in OU since neither its stats or typing would be all that useful in SV OU. Nidoqueen would check far too few mons for it to actually pull its weight.
Nidoqueen could check quite a lot of mons, maybe even finding its way onto stall teams for that niche, though it would more likely be better on balance teams.
The mons it could check are:
Iron valiant (it can take a psyshock unboosted)
Enamorus (can take an earth power)
Clefable (not the most important mon, but worth mentioning)
Raging bolt (earth power has a chance to ko it from full, and the most common tera type in fairy is weak to nidoqueen's other stab)
Special iron treads (nidoking is ohko'd if even stealth rocks are on the field, wheras nidoqueen has to have 3 layers of spikes and stealth rock to ohko)
Kingambit (at +2, nidoqueen has a chance to live sucker punch and ko back, whereas nidoking will always die)
Primarina (a bit iffier, but does 80% to assault vest variants, and can outspeed them. Has to most likely tera, but prim can be a huge threat)
Zamazenta (can take a +6 body press, and does about 50% back, nidoking has a chance to be ohko'd by it)
While some of these are iffier, nidoqueen would have a niche in the tier, I think moreso than nidoking, because there are a lot more offensive mons in the tier and although defensive mons aren't hard to come by, defensive utility while having offensive firepower is great. And that's just the ones I could think off the top of my head, there are most likely a few more.
 
I don't think so. Nidoking might have some viability by being faster than Gholdengo, but Nidoqueen would really struggle in OU since neither its stats or typing would be all that useful in SV OU. Nidoqueen would check far too few mons for it to actually pull its weight.
nidoking/queen are one of those deceptive mons who's effective bst is much higher than it looks. similar to azumarill whos effective base attack stat is 149 when fully invested, taking its bst from 420 to 519. I made a post about this a few months ago explaining why psysical hoopa is so much better than special.

Using the calculator you can compare nidoking to find its effective spA

(85 spA, sheer force)
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 168 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 499-588 (137.4 - 161.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(126 spA, poison point)
252+ SpA Life Orb Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 168 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 499-588 (137.4 - 161.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I wont go through nidoqueen but its a similar story, the difference in damage with sheer force is a whopping 41bst in spA, which means its effectively behaving as if it were a 546bst pokemon, not too shabby. I think nidoking would absolutely have a place in the metagame on sticky web or twave teams, it can beat both rillaboom and steel types in one set. Nidoqueen would definitely work as hazard setter who can beat hatterene/cinderace, or as a check to raging bolt/ emamorus.
 
nidoking/queen are one of those deceptive mons who's effective bst is much higher than it looks. similar to azumarill whos effective base attack stat is 149 when fully invested, taking its bst from 420 to 519. I made a post about this a few months ago explaining why psysical hoopa is so much better than special.
Kind of reminds me of Clefable where it's effective bst always feels way higher than it actually is thanks to life orb magic guard and Unaware being common for it to use, when in reality, it is all abilities and movepools that makes Clefable the inevitable demon it has been since gen 4. Even in the face of crazy powercreep of gen 5 and gen 9, Clefable will always be inevitable.
 
Kind of reminds me of Clefable where it's effective bst always feels way higher than it actually is thanks to life orb magic guard and Unaware being common for it to use, when in reality, it is all abilities and movepools that makes Clefable the inevitable demon it has been since gen 4. Even in the face of crazy powercreep of gen 5 and gen 9, Clefable will always be inevitable.
Hopping on the "low BST but crazy good" train, people forget that Ferrothorn isn't even 500 BST, its stats are just well distributed with a crazy ability, moveset, and typing.
 

viivian

beep boop
is a Tiering Contributor
I don't think so. Nidoking might have some viability by being faster than Gholdengo, but Nidoqueen would really struggle in OU since neither its stats or typing would be all that useful in SV OU. Nidoqueen would check far too few mons for it to actually pull its weight.
when was nidoqueen ever good in OU anyway? i don't think i've seen her around since DPP OU
 

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