Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

of course there's the meme option of shell smash + power trip + population bomb—but its best niche is as a hazard setter that can also inflict sleep
I’m actually kind of curious what people think about the idea of Technician Pop Bomb on lead Smeargle as opposed to just using it on a meme setup set. Yeah it’s not super consistent without Wide Lens and yeah Smeargle has base 20 attack, but Smeargle has absolutely no bulk so you can just run 252 attack and then you can potentially chunk something heavily if you don’t miss. Salt Cure might be more useful overall though, idk.
 
What niche does smeargle have in OU?
It’s the only Pokemon that learns Stone Axe, Ceaseless Edge, Spore, and Sticky Webs all at once. So even if you Taunt Smeargle it will at least be able to get up Stealth Rock and Spikes. Also learning all but a handful of moves means you can do a lot. Like those special protects, Skill Swap, Dragon Tail, etc.
Also what about comfey?
Triage priority (+3) for Draining moves like Giga Drain and Draining Kiss, then having Stored Power as well. Also so many of the fastest Pokemon in the tier are weak to Fairy.
 
So, a question - With Gen IX effectively complete, who're you guys favourite of the new mons? Feel free to give your reasoning.
Skeledirge. It's amazing as both a defensive and offensive pokemon that can do multiple different thigns so incredibly well. Heck, I once slapped a choice scarf on one and it wasn't horrible, in fact it was great when I would outspeed opponents and destroy them with torch song. It's so customisable and is great at stopping overpowered offensive threats.
Plus it looks cool, that's another point for it.
 
So, a question - With Gen IX effectively complete, who're you guys favourite of the new mons? Feel free to give your reasoning.
I felt a bit spoiled this gen, as Gallade, Volcarona, and Bisharp have been in my top 5 since I was a kid. I wasn't a huge fan of a lot of the new designs that weren't cross-gen evos, but Lokix, Meowscarada, Skeledirge, and Glimmora are all pretty cool. All of the Treasures are also sick. As far as DLCs go, I like Sinistcha, Archaludon, and Hydrapple.

Competitively, most of the mons I've mentioned have done pretty well for themselves too. Gambit is stupid but it's impressive that they made the ultimate endgame mon; Glimmora, Dirge, and Sinistcha all have fairly unique things going for them as well.
 
So, a question - With Gen IX effectively complete, who're you guys favourite of the new mons? Feel free to give your reasoning.
Mine are:

1. Tinkaton. It's been a fun anti meta pick in OU, and a really solid UU Pokemon. Plus I love how much of a gremlin they are.

2. Annihilape. It's backstory is metal af, and it's just a really fun (if somewhat cheesy) Pokemon to use.

3. Iron Bundle. I love that Delibird is one of the most broken non legendary Pokemon in existence right now.

4. Archaludon. I used it for my Indio Disk playthrough, and it has quickly become my favourite new mon to use in OU. It's really good, but still feels fair to fight against.

5. Chi-Yu. (Insert Blissey calculation)

Other highlights include: Clodsire, Wo-Chien, Skeledirge and Hydrapple. Gen 9 might have my favourite selection of any Pokemon gen.
 
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So, a question - With Gen IX effectively complete, who're you guys favourite of the new mons? Feel free to give your reasoning.
Of course Gholdengo, and Kingambit, and Roaring Moon! Oh, can’t forget about Annihilape!

Okay, just kidding.

Design: I think the simulator doesn’t do justice to just how cool Clodsire is in the game. This spikes that come out of his body when he attacks are epic!

Competitive: Honestly, I’m having crazy fun with Archaludon. A special attack to obliterate something, but not even close to a dependence on it due to Stamina Body Press. Arch has so much utility to, be it walling, phasing, and Scarf destruction on Rain. I’m always shocked just how good of a speed tier Arch has for such a defensive Mon.
 
even though smeargle's stat spread makes me want to vomit, it has literally any combination of utility moves you can think of besides revival blessing. it traditionally has a niche as a focus sash lead (there's no other way for it to live attacks) that spores whatever the opponent leads, then sets up webs or spikes or whatever. in theory it can do other things—i've seen discussion of salt cure, nuzzle, mortal spin, burning bulwark, ruination, and of course there's the meme option of shell smash + power trip + population bomb—but its best niche is as a hazard setter that can also inflict sleep

as for comfey,
smeargle's big problem is that the moment it actually becomes good in a tier is the moment it's easier than ever to counterlead. Like in ubers you can just lead scale shot koraidon against a smeargle team and what are they gonna do? You can do a similar thing in OU with garchomp
 
This might be a bad opinion but i can't help thinking RM's unban was ridiculous. I can't find reasonings for these votes, so if there's any please link me them so i can rest assured i'm just bad and that the council didn't let the voices inside their head win

73o6ue.png

Like seriously. Please explain it to me. What value does it bring to SVOU? RillaOger check? Valiant offensive check? Broken checks broken isnt the way to go around it if thats the case. DLC 1 was already too offense oriented, imo, so seeing RM back is just breaking every rib i've got and then kicking my teeth in.


RM shits on dozo with minimal hazard support thanks to knock off, and that's as far as neutral walls go against it. If it is also tasked with handling gambit, it's most likely tera fighting, which acrobatics murks effortlessly. RM isnt a glass cannon either, good positioning with it isn't that hard especially thanks to tera but not forgetting it's good bulk, so grabbing a dd is almost guaranteed in a game. After that it's not outsped by any common scarfer, so the only thing that will realistically outspeed it is Iron Boulder, who i don't think is shaping up to be the healthiest stay either. That is, if it doesn't run booster speed for that exact MU, where it completely murks Boulder while not missing out on a lot of the immediate power given the right support

Please prove me wrong and call me bad i beg. No joke
 
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Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Knock Off​

Been having a lot of success recently with scizor. Having a Choice-banded Bullet Punch in the back is very useful in a metagame where every mon has 50 bajillion speed - Enamorous, Roaring moon, Iron Boulder, Darkrai, Deo-s, Iron Valiant... It's not OHKOing every one of these from full, but likely only needs just a little bit of chip. CC is excellent neutral coverage on top of smoking kingambit. U-turn is very nice for abusing the numerous HO leads; Samurott-H and Deo-s get blown away while not being able to threaten an OHKO on Scizor. Knock off is just a great move for bulkier teams, notably nailing Gholdengo who would otherwise be very comfortable switching into Scizor.

Scizor is definitely a great anti-meta mon right now, would love to see more of it.
 
So, a question - With Gen IX effectively complete, who're you guys favourite of the new mons? Feel free to give your reasoning.
oh my god I had better see somebody else saying lokix or i'm gonna have to pull out the old First Impression vs Your Sorry Ass calc and do some things I might regret.

Anyways,
:sv/lokix: @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Leech Life

Unfortunately you are required to Tera but once you have it legitimately hits like a truck. It OHKOs shit like Pult, Offensive Ace, Enam, Tera'd Boulder/ Ogerpon/Darkrai, HP-invested Volc, etc. It 2HKOs even more stuff, especially with rocks support: Physically Defensive Pex !!!, Iron Valiant (and it doesn't even OHKO with moonblast!), offensive tusk, boots Iron Moth, and a bunch of random neutral targets like Gambit and Bolt. Leech Life means that its rocks weakness hardly bothers it as it's going to be healing to full anyways after a single leech life. And don't make the assumption that it's useless against defense, either. The only thing that truly hard counters it is Dondozo, which hates knock off and heals lokix a lot because of its chunky HP stat. Everything else has to be afraid of getting u-turned on and not having enough HP to beat it when it comes back in.

I talk about lokix so much and I think everybody assumes it's a joke because of that. IT'S NOT. PLEASE GIVE IT A SHOT. IT IS NOT A MEME AND I NEED VALIDATION!!!!!
 
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This might be a bad opinion but i can't help thinking RM's unban was ridiculous. I can't find reasonings for these votes, so if there's any please link me them so i can rest assured i'm just bad and that the council didn't let the voices inside their head win

View attachment 582398
Like seriously. Please explain it to me. What value does it bring to SVOU? RillaOger check? Valiant offensive check? Broken checks broken isnt the way to go around it if thats the case. DLC 1 was already too offense oriented, imo, so seeing RM back is just breaking every rib i've got and then kicking my teeth in.


RM shits on dozo with minimal hazard support thanks to knock off, and that's as far as neutral walls go against it. If it is also tasked with handling gambit, it's most likely tera fighting, which acrobatics murks effortlessly. RM isnt a glass cannon either, good positioning with it isn't that hard especially thanks to tera but not forgetting it's good bulk, so grabbing a dd is almost guaranteed in a game. After that it's not outsped by any common scarfer, so the only thing that will realistically outspeed it is Iron Boulder, who i don't think is shaping up to be the healthiest stay either. That is, if it doesn't run booster speed for that exact MU, where it completely murks Boulder while not missing out on a lot of the immediate power given the right support

Please prove me wrong and call me bad i beg. No joke
:sv/ninetales-alola:
I actually do agree Roaring Moon is busted but Baxcalibur had Snow boost to Def and Burn immunity put it above Roaring Moon.

As for Roaring Moon, I can still see why you’d test it in OU again with some of the new Pokemon being introduced. Archaludon is a great check to many physical attacker, Gouging Fire can ruin it with Burning Bulwark, Terastallizing into Flying now means its weak to Thunderclap and neutral to Sucker Punch, and Iron Boulder can outspeed most dangerous set (Atk Proto is better in most scenarios because your Atk otherwise becomes effectively less than base 119. Even when using speed, you should use Choice Band because you’re really tank how hard you hit without it).

Roaring Moon will like be the next Pokemon on the chopping block though as the new stuff is still conditionally checking it and if you don’t have them your team easily gets wrecked.
 
Please explain it to me. What value does it bring to SVOU?
it doesn't have to "bring value" to be unbanned at a metagame switch like DLC1->DLC2. at a new metagame, the council gives all Pokémon that have a chance of staying a fair shake. baxcalibur was incredibly broken and banned by a non-controversial quickban vote; roaring mid was banned via a somewhat close suspect test (iirc it was roughly 70%--ban wasn't in doubt but that's enough of a minority to keep in mind). the somewhat close suspect plus the only slightly higher power level, that's why roaring mid got the test and not baxcalibroke.

if you picture a literal line as the cutline to be not broken in OU, it moved up some when the DLC came out. roaring moon may not be below the cutline yet, but it got moved closer, and it already wasn't far off pre-DLC. baxcalibur is still way above the cutline.
 
So, a question - With Gen IX effectively complete, who're you guys favourite of the new mons? Feel free to give your reasoning.
First and foremost Skeledirge. Love its typing, love its movepool, Love its design and basis, love how good it's been in singles, only bad thing is it being a bit meh in VGC. Reminds me a lot of what I loved about Mega Venusaur back in gen 6. Blood moon Ursaluna is another. I freaking love practically everything about it and I already loved the original Ursaluna.
This one is primarily due to my adventures in Doubles but I freaking adore Sinistcha. It is just a great utility Pokemon and probably the best of the convergent species.
And the final two of my top 5 of gen IX would probably be Garganacl and Clodsire. One is much like the Rhydon and Coalossal line I really dig the aesthetics of and each of them have found some success historically in at least one format and have been a lot of fun to play with in game. And finally Clodsire, it is perfect and lovely and if you show me someone who dislikes it I will show you a bald faced liar. Honorable mentions go to: Hydrapple, Pawmot, Maushold and Farigiraf
 
This might be a bad opinion but i can't help thinking RM's unban was ridiculous. I can't find reasonings for these votes, so if there's any please link me them so i can rest assured i'm just bad and that the council didn't let the voices inside their head win

View attachment 582398
Like seriously. Please explain it to me. What value does it bring to SVOU? RillaOger check? Valiant offensive check? Broken checks broken isnt the way to go around it if thats the case. DLC 1 was already too offense oriented, imo, so seeing RM back is just breaking every rib i've got and then kicking my teeth in.


RM shits on dozo with minimal hazard support thanks to knock off, and that's as far as neutral walls go against it. If it is also tasked with handling gambit, it's most likely tera fighting, which acrobatics murks effortlessly. RM isnt a glass cannon either, good positioning with it isn't that hard especially thanks to tera but not forgetting it's good bulk, so grabbing a dd is almost guaranteed in a game. After that it's not outsped by any common scarfer, so the only thing that will realistically outspeed it is Iron Boulder, who i don't think is shaping up to be the healthiest stay either. That is, if it doesn't run booster speed for that exact MU, where it completely murks Boulder while not missing out on a lot of the immediate power given the right support

Please prove me wrong and call me bad i beg. No joke
Yeah, why they even considered RM for OU, much less let it in is beyond me, it has DDance, stupid High Attack, Speed, and even Special Defense, like what the fuck? It also has Knock Off, Protosynthesis, Roost and Taunt for Bulky Sets, and U-Turn! This is a bulky, fast, strong Pokemon with good utility. Again, what the hell? But what do I now.
 
it doesn't have to "bring value" to be unbanned at a metagame switch like DLC1->DLC2. at a new metagame, the council gives all Pokémon that have a chance of staying a fair shake. baxcalibur was incredibly broken and banned by a non-controversial quickban vote; roaring mid was banned via a somewhat close suspect test (iirc it was roughly 70%--ban wasn't in doubt but that's enough of a minority to keep in mind). the somewhat close suspect plus the only slightly higher power level, that's why roaring mid got the test and not baxcalibroke.

if you picture a literal line as the cutline to be not broken in OU, it moved up some when the DLC came out. roaring moon may not be below the cutline yet, but it got moved closer, and it already wasn't far off pre-DLC. baxcalibur is still way above the cutline.
I agree there is some merit, but describing Roaring Moon as “mid” is just wrong. Only thing that can outspeed +1 Roaring Moon are Scarfers and Booster Energy Iron Boulder. Only Pokemon capable of checking it can be wore down over the match easily. It’s considered the best Paradox Pokemon legal and best Dragon Dancer legal for a good reason.
 

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