Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

| 18 | Archaludon | 10.002% |
| 36 | Primarina | 5.691% |

Really happy that Arch and Primarina are being recognized for their fantastic OU qualities already and have official OU placements. Arch and Primarina both have great typing, stat spreads, set variety, and quite a bit more. I feel both will continue to be explored more as the meta develops and secure more permanent places in the tier.

What I'm really surprised by is Boulder at 4 and Roaring Moon at 5. I expected these Pokemon to be common, but not THIS common. I feel I saw other Pokemon like Ting-Lu more than either Boulder or Moon. Hatterene being as high as 7 also shocked me, even if it is a great Pokemon on HO and Sun.
Roaring Moon is one of the most bonkers Pokemon in the tier, I'd have been surprised if it wasn't in the top 5 honestly.
 
You literally have the power to change that with a certain hammer.

Now, them being at 29/28 instead of like 45 is quite a positive thing. Still would vote Gambit and Gholdengo (among with like 10 more things) out of OU, but Meta is becoming somewhat diverse.
These mons having a sharp drop in usage makes sense too. I think Dengo got hit the hardest since Volcarona and Gouging flame are tough MUs + the Dark-type onslaught with buffed Meow & Weavile + unbanned Darkrai & Moon.. Tusk got slightly better, but has to deal with some annoying offensive threats like Deo-S and some more niche picks like Keldeo / Latios. IMO Gambit is generally better now, but its competition with other Dark-types like Meow and Weavile may make it less obviously the "best" choice.
 
Really happy Iron Boulder has the OU Built for OU head smashing. Maybe Landorus-T found it's new niche!
I mean, not really new. In BW OU Lando used to be already one of the best Terrakion checks, this is just another Terrakion.

Fun fact about Terrakion. The month he dropped to PU, Palossand (a full counter outside of Tera Blast) left that Tier. Could have been a fun experiment down there, but now has to be Quick Banned, since no one is going to use Sandygast just for him.
 
Really happy Iron Boulder has the OU Built for OU head smashing. Maybe Landorus-T found it's new niche!
Hopefully it will eventually drop, we have enough with Meowscarada’s ugly ass in the tier, now we have something uglier than her here :smogduck:

Happy to see Dnite is still in the 20s, I thought he was gonna drop harder but once dust settles, he will rise up again. Especially if Moon gets banned banned.
 

awyp

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Iron boulder outperforming roaring-moon is super interesting.

If anyone wants a visual breakdown of the moves spreads, counters etc for the new DLC mons. Feel free to check out the link in my signature.
Thank you for plugging, really cool stuff

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Iron Boulder outperforming Roaring Moon and Gouging I think is like funny probably because everyone is like OMG this thing is fast just Booster it up and we're gucci!
 
The Kingambit discussion makes me feel like I'm on a different planet from everyone else.

Kingambit is a common mon that keeps a lot of annoying things in check, but also has so much counter play that many, many pokemon can run. Literally slap on a fighting move on any pokemon that resist its stabs, encore it if you think it'll sucker punch, use status moves, use Dondozo, use Iron Defense Corv or Skarmory, use Zamazenta, use Tera Stellar Enamorous. And this isn't even mentioning the many things that aren't direct counters, but definitely have favourable matchups like Raging Bolt and Gouging Fire.

What people often don't get is that if you make slight tweeks to your team, you don't have to play the guessing game. If you have a healthy ID mon, switch into that. If you wanna play it slightly risky, go into Iron Valiant and encore it, or darkrai and use hypnosis or focus blast it or trick it with scarf. There's such a wide array of counterplay to this thing that it's not really centralizing to the team building process at all. Encore is a great move outside of dealing with Gambit. Same with will-o-wisp, same with Iron Defense, and so on.

What gets me about this discussion, and what's confusing, is that there are a way scarier sweepers running around in the tier right now. Why are people fretting about Gambit sweeping when Roaring Moon, Gouging Fire, and Kyurem are in the tier? I think it's because people don't like losing because of what they think of as a guess. I also think it's because this is a very old argument, and some don't want to let go of the issue. The truth is though, Gambit is so high in usage not because it's a top tier sweeper, but because it offers a unique defensive profile with that bulk, and it answers a lot of very annoying threats in the tier.
 
What gets me about this discussion, and what's confusing, is that there are a way scarier sweepers running around in the tier right now. Why are people fretting about Gambit sweeping when Roaring Moon, Gouging Fire, and Kyurem are in the tier? I think it's because people don't like losing because of what they think of as a guess. I also think it's because this is a very old argument, and some don't want to let go of the issue. The truth is though, Gambit is so high in usage not because it's a top tier sweeper, but because it offers a unique defensive profile with that bulk, and it answers a lot of very annoying threats in the tier.
For me, it's because you have to keep all your checks healthy, and that's not guaranteed because of Tera to Fairy or Flying. That makes fighting Gambit aggravating if you have to keep your dedicated gambit counter healthy or non boostered or non Tera'd or whatever. A lot can happen in a round.
 
Terrakion actually has a solid niche in OU thanks to its phenomenal offensive typing and more usable defensive typing, higher attack, better physical bulk, and great speed tier (albeit nowhere near as high as Boulder's) that's separate from Boulder. I've seen it used quite a few times in OU and the fact that it dropped so low to PU is a little disheartening. Terrakion has the opportunity to run other item spreads without compromising its niche (most of the time it's best to run Booster Energy on Boulder and not too much else).
 
For me, it's because you have to keep all your checks healthy, and that's not guaranteed because of Tera to Fairy or Flying. That makes fighting Gambit aggravating if you have to keep your dedicated gambit counter healthy or non boostered or non Tera'd or whatever. A lot can happen in a round.
Having to keep certain pokemon healthy to deal with specific threats is the entire game, and there's far scarier sweepers right now than Gambit. On top of that, there are several checks that completely stop Gambit cold Tera or not (faster stellar mon, Dozo, ID birds, Zamazenta if you don't also have fairy tera blast and the Zam doesn't tera Steel).

I guess my overall point is, what makes Gambit uniquely dangerous to the meta at this time? It's easier to build around Gambit than it is to build around Kyurem, Gouging Fire, or even Raging Bolt (who also has sucker mind games!).
 

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