There really aren't a lot of options for offensive mons that can take a hit from Ogerpon-Wellspring in rain. You could try Sinistcha, although that drops hard to +2 Knock Off if Knock Off is her 4th move. You could also try Rillaboom with some bulk investment at the cost of speed.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
There really aren't a lot of options for offensive mons that can take a hit from Ogerpon-Wellspring in rain. You could try Sinistcha, although that drops hard to +2 Knock Off if Knock Off is her 4th move. You could also try Rillaboom with some bulk investment at the cost of speed.
thanks. i'll look into both but so far rillaboom is the more enticing option just based on my playstyle+the rest of the team.
physdef Hoodra? like Draco, Thunder, two more moves (could go eq/knock or flash cannon or whatever)
sounds a lot like another mon that we used to know
None of those moves would hit Ogerpon-Wellspring adequately if it's Physical Defense Goodra-Hisui. Sludge Bomb/Sludge Wave are the only moves with a chance to 2HKO Ogerpon-Wellspring with no Special Attack investment, and RainWaiv specifically indicates he wants an offensive mon, not a defensive mon.
0 SpA Goodra-Hisui Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ogerpon-Wellspring: 146-172 (48.5 - 57.1%) -- 89.8% chance to 2HKO
tbf it doesn't really have to be a strictly offensive mon, just something that can hold its own pretty well outside of the wellspring MU (which it obviously needs to actually win lol)
Well, if that's the criteria, Goodra-Hisui with Sludge Wave/Sludge Bomb, Thunderbolt/Ice Beam, Earthquake, and Draco Meteor might be an option although I don't think it really fits on your team. Those are probably the best coverage moves for a physical Defense set.
Rain right now is terrible due to plenty of mons. Kyurem, Raging Bolt, Kingambit, Ogerpon-W, rillaboom, garganacl, slowking galar, stall, even gliscor who has to use tera to no die under rain can waste time with protect stalling
https://pokepast.es/3a111c455222ef70
If you wanna go with rain in general, this should be your mold for when using rain, Barraskewda has a chance to OHKO ogerpon-w with CC and rocks, but then a ghost type switches in, and you lose momentum, you see the problem? Some barras go to the extreme of just using tera fighting instead of the better tera water just for the kingambit matchup, but then you lose so much damage in the water moves
Iron treads helps you in not instantly crumbling vs Raging Bolt, while Raging Bolt can function as a priority mon to help vs some of these and start wrecking havoc
My suggestion is to focus on what rain is good for, big damage, maybe you can add another rain sweeper, or maybe a hurricane or thunder user
It is not recommended to use rain and that will be the case until some bans that benefit the play style happen
It feels so long ago that I barely remember but I feel like now is the time to mention it. I thought rain was still used a lot post archuladon ban. What happened that truly caused it to die out? Or am I just remembering wrong lol
>Hitler notification
>"oh yeah this must be 4chan"
>It's fucking smogon
What is this, 2006?
It's not BAD per se, it still exists, but it's mediocre and is far worse than post-Arch ban.
I remember Overqwil was a mon discussed for Rain at times, being a Swift Swimmer that doesn't get stopped immediately by the typical Water Resists, though lower output obviously due to not having Water STAB to stack with the Rain, but decent options with its actual STABs into Ogerpon-W, Rillaboom, and Glowking among some of the mentioned problem Pokemon.
It’s a jack of all trades but master of none. Like Kingdra it’s viable but not exactly optimal because it’s just not particular good at doing anything besides being able to trade with and soak up damage from different Pokemon than the average rain sweeper like Barra.
Well I wouldn't say kingdra is viable (sadly) but fair enough
Honestly the reason the zap ting glow argument falls flat for me is because when we had that dlc meta zapdos was easily the problem of the three. Like zapdos static was actually cheap back then with all the physical mons in that meta and it probably should have maybe went back then.
If people do vote dnb on gliscor it should be for the reason most offenses can handle it and balance kind of needs it right now.
I do think gliscor could dodge but we shall see
If people do vote dnb on gliscor it should be for the reason most offenses can handle it and balance kind of needs it right now.
I do think gliscor could dodge but we shall see
- Been playing around with rain a bit and the main way to beat Ogerpon is relying on on how fast the standard Rain Pokemon is to out offense it. Basculegion will be able to kill at moderately high ranges with Shadow Ball, esp if Tera Ghost, while Dragonite and Kingambit have strong priority to somewhat limit it. Dragonite will also be able to switch in a handful of times if played well, esp if you get hazards up early
- Blizzard -> Flip Turn, momentum is important on rain
- Would run a mixed set on this build actually, something like one of the two below. Its a bit telegraphed, but Dragonite can lure a few variants of Tusk and possibly Zamazenta & smack em hard with hurricane so that
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THE MAILMAN (Dragonite) @ Eject Pack
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 40 Atk / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Rash Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Hurricane
- Low Kick
- Roost
Shenlong (Dragonite) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Hurricane
- Dragon Dance
- I personally don't like Tera Fairy Tera Blast here, but I'm unsure what to change it to.
- Looks fine. You can also swap it out for
to give you another out vs Ogerpon-WellSpring
Raging Bolt @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 116 HP / 252 SpA / 140 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderclap
- Weather Ball
- Thunder
- Looks fine. You can also swap it out for
yeah looking at it gliscor is pretty fair (if a bit annoying) and it seems like the SD sets are starting to hit the point where people can check them reliably too. If there was slightly more gliscor counterplay to its sets like a better unaware user than clef/clod or more offensive counters than waterpon it'd be pretty safely DNB. It's not like it's fun to fight or anything, poison heal is the bane of my existence sometimes, but i'd say DNB for now (public opinion will definitely change)
yes i did say ban gliscor like 2 days ago but i've been playing a bit more and it's not as bad as i thought it was. opinions change ig.
priority:
If priority fixed the issue, I would not be complaining
Intimidate Salamence instead of Dragonite. DD, DWB, Quake, Roost. Its budget Roaring Moon otherwise but it does well in this matchup.
Kingdra is perfectly fine as a Swift Swimmer. Of all the swimmers it has the highest base stats, highest base power moves, sufficiently high speed tier, and doesn’t outright die to Glide or Thunderclap.
What are you on about?
This sounds dumb, but what if you ran a Dnite set with DD hurricane thunder espeed? It checks wellspring, still has DD, hurricane is strong STAB and Thunder will punish any Tera Waters from stuff like Gking.
Why are you mad at scarfed mons lmao. It’s not like choice lock isn’t extremely exploitable with setup or stuff like sub kyu and conditional priority in sucker and thunderclap. Not only that, but with more popular scarfers like Lando-t, shouldn’t you be scouting for scarf anyway? And it’s not like they tear through bulky teams either, they can handle scarf just fine. Oh and the only popular scarfers that outspend stuff like +1 Moon and Valiant are Darkrai and Meowscarada.
Hey if Kingambit can drop Iron Head for Low Kick it can drop Iron Head for Stealth Rock lol.
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You probably would find a way given it's all you do
Since gliscor is being suspected right now, I might as well share an all purpose set I made myself, if it has been used or heard of before, it’s a coincidence. Now the main thing I wanna talk about is the moveset of the little bat, because, oet’s be honest, no one needs to be told why toxic orb and poison heal are the item and ability respectively. So protect for obvious reasons, swords dance, facade/earthquake/knock off, stealth rock/spikes. It’s the one I personally will recommend, but the last slot is customizable
In fact protect is the only move here which has to stay and can’t be changed. Now let’s start with attacking moves, knockoff although weak if the opponent’s item has already been knocked off (65 is incredibly under average, and it really needs the 50% power boost if the opponent has an item, not to say players won’t use it even without the 50% boost), is still arguably the best attacking move gliscor can have, it can run stab eq, it can run facade to hit a lot of mons for neutral damage only with the caveat that it can’t hit anything for super effective damage and can’t touch ghosts, rocks and steels, which is a large caveat I will say. Now SD is self explanatory, but the 4th slot can be customizable. I would generally recommend hazards tho, so rocks or spikes, you can have a 2nd hazard by replacing sd, u can have a 2nd attack here but no hazard, u can have toxic here too, tbh toxic and hazards are the only usable things in the 4th slot, a 2nd attack will be nice to have tho but that’ll just be mimicry of the current sd set.
Now for Tera type, I would recommend Steel, water, poison, dragon, dark, normal or ghost. A steel, water, ghost and dragon are only there for defensive purposes (ghost lets you beat zama since crunch doesn’t do a lot of damage on iron defense sets even if gliscor will be weak, it’s a 14% to 4HKO after poison heal without protecting in between turns with minimum investment) . Dark and normal are there for offensive purposes (for knock off annd facade respectively) and poison for utility (never miss toxics) but I’ll recommend poison the least out of all of these.
The ev spreads are very customizable, you can have bulk, offense or both with the spreads.
Now here are some sample sets (I am a kinda bad team builder, use these at your own risks):
https://pokepast.es/6cfca770feea094a
Now offensive earthquake sets aren’t here, but that’s for my own convenience, if you’re wanting to use offensive earthquake please take the burden of editing a current set yourself.
I think this has potential, if it sounds like a bad idea, please tell me so and why, and please don’t respond rudely if you were planning to.
In fact protect is the only move here which has to stay and can’t be changed. Now let’s start with attacking moves, knockoff although weak if the opponent’s item has already been knocked off (65 is incredibly under average, and it really needs the 50% power boost if the opponent has an item, not to say players won’t use it even without the 50% boost), is still arguably the best attacking move gliscor can have, it can run stab eq, it can run facade to hit a lot of mons for neutral damage only with the caveat that it can’t hit anything for super effective damage and can’t touch ghosts, rocks and steels, which is a large caveat I will say. Now SD is self explanatory, but the 4th slot can be customizable. I would generally recommend hazards tho, so rocks or spikes, you can have a 2nd hazard by replacing sd, u can have a 2nd attack here but no hazard, u can have toxic here too, tbh toxic and hazards are the only usable things in the 4th slot, a 2nd attack will be nice to have tho but that’ll just be mimicry of the current sd set.
Now for Tera type, I would recommend Steel, water, poison, dragon, dark, normal or ghost. A steel, water, ghost and dragon are only there for defensive purposes (ghost lets you beat zama since crunch doesn’t do a lot of damage on iron defense sets even if gliscor will be weak, it’s a 14% to 4HKO after poison heal without protecting in between turns with minimum investment) . Dark and normal are there for offensive purposes (for knock off annd facade respectively) and poison for utility (never miss toxics) but I’ll recommend poison the least out of all of these.
The ev spreads are very customizable, you can have bulk, offense or both with the spreads.
Now here are some sample sets (I am a kinda bad team builder, use these at your own risks):
https://pokepast.es/6cfca770feea094a
Now offensive earthquake sets aren’t here, but that’s for my own convenience, if you’re wanting to use offensive earthquake please take the burden of editing a current set yourself.
I think this has potential, if it sounds like a bad idea, please tell me so and why, and please don’t respond rudely if you were planning to.
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Not sure about the idea of a set up sweeper with a weird slot.
From what i've seen in Gen 9, your team needs to fill as many boxes as possible with the 6 slots you have plus your Tera type of choice per teammate. I'm not sure what the point of having an SD user who can set hazards does. I'm certainly open to the idea of trying it, if for no other reason than sheer curiosity, but i'm not sure this specifically will be the next hotness when it comes to Gliscor sets.
One idea I do want to try is Toxic on an SD set. That sounds like the right balance between absurdly stupid yet feasible to be right up my alley. Swords Dance, Knock Off, Protect and Toxic with Tera Dark. Having a Knocker who can cripple stuff on the switch sounds kind of funny. Maybe pair this with a Dragapult or something of the sort to punish Corv and Skarm. Idk.
All I know is, I now have something weird to keep my eyes on for the time being
I did talk about sd toxic and the pokepaste link has offensive sd toxic as a few of the sets
But yeah, this idea isn’t really full fledged, the only time I tried it on ladder, it didn’t work out well. I don’t expect this to do be the new hot thing for gliscor sets at all, just a fun thing to try out. I would recommend trying the set on alts cuz u won’t rlly care about ur elo as much, this idea of an “all purpose gliscor” can be shifted.