This is ridiculous. We committed to having a radar and quickbans before the suspect and then again during it, well before we knew any results. Before you go around claiming volunteers are acting in bad faith, know what you’re talking about or simply don’t talk about it altogether if you don’t. Asking questions is encouraged and I would love to actually discuss people and even learn new perspectives rather than just being attacked or accused of trying to circumvent democracy.
In all honesty, the tier is progressively getting more enjoyable to play. Say what you will about Tera ban or the quick bans but team building feels much less restrictive and set variety feels a little more fluid than the beginning of the generation. Tier leaders don't deserve the hate they get, although I know its just a vocal minority that speak out.
On to a different topic, Torkoal feels so good right now, even after the Chi Yu ban. A lot of strong mons benefit from Proto and between Yawn SR Spin and fire move, it has role compression and gives a ton of team support. Roaring Moon and Great Tusk slot in nicely and are top mons in the meta, and Proto Atk Scarf Great Tusk is such a threat to most teams. I already see a good bit of Torkoal but honestly I expect to see more. Torkoal Hatterene Brute Bonnett TR team when???
You run anything else right now
Rocky Helmet was for some extra chip against specific things, but why not be immune to Garganacls Salt Cure for safer Defogs? Can stop Specs Pult from beating you down with Shadow Balls since SpDef drop won't be a problem.
Same deal, no trapping heatrans right now so no need for Shed Shell, Black Sludge is cool, but Recover exists, why not use Covert Cloak for the same reasons as Corviknight, no Salt Cure 25%, no Shadow Ball SpDef drops, life is good.
Already talked about him. Can wall Gholdengo without a care in the world. 
Are you worried about Crunch lowering your defense leaving you susceptible to Chien-Pao shenanigans, not anymore!i agree on gholdengo and garg. cinderace should also be mentioned as a ghold sort-of-answer because fuck whatever anyone says, court change is a really good move to have right now. as for garg, the people who want it gone are probably in the same category of people who want a full tera ban or who wanted boots banned last gen. they see something new and frightening and very good but not broken and decide they want it to go away instead of adapting to it. chien-pao i have to hard disagree with because it's just another unga bunga mon with like 3 and a half soft checks that you don't have to actually be good at the game to succeed with. we get at least 2 of these every gen and the arguments for and against banning them fall into the exact same pattern. just put the cat out alreadyThought I'd chime in on what I think of the current meta. Right now things are weird because it feels slightly unbalanced, but when I look at the mons individually, I don't see much of a problem. Could be that we just haven't adapted to them yet.
Gholdengo spike stack has been a topic of discussion, and a reason why people think it should get banned, and while I think Gholdengo is an S tier pokemon right now, it doesn't feel overbearing to me. Great Tusk can rapid spin without worry because Gholdengo doesn't want to swap in, Kingambit doesn't have to worry about Focus Blast when a prime Sucker Punch is ready to kill. Things like SpDef Amoonguss, Toxapex, Clodsire, Corviknight, and Dragonite can bulk hits nicely. People mention Shadow Ball SpDef drops, but I'll cover that in a bit. Overall I think Gholdengo is very nice to have, but not infallible like some people claim.
Mega Weavile is scary as hell, but it has some glaring weaknesses that Chi-Yu didn't have. The defensive ice typing means so many things hit it at least neutral, and with its already sub-par defenses, it functions as a glass cannon more than anything, and while Chi-Yu had no trouble pushing past its checks, Chien-Pao doesn't like the presense of the bozo dozo, Mach Punch Breloom, Bullet Punch Scizor, and Tera Fairy Skeledirge Will-O-Wisp. This one is definitely the most borderline of the ones I'm going to mention here, and I could go either way as its offensive prowess is extremely good, even if it isn't as good as Chi-Yu's was.
This is the one I really want to talk about though. I am fully convinced that people see this thing as OP because they refuse to adapt. Yes Salt Cure is a really good move, but Covert Cloak exists. I know, "Covert Cloak is too niche, having to use an entire item slot for it makes it centralizing blah blah" No it doesn't. Covert Cloak is an item I have found myself using on many teams for more than just Garganacl. So I want to start a Covert Cloak appreciation post.
COVERT CLOAK IS A GOOD ITEM.
What use could Cloak have other than to counter Salt Cure? Well first of all, that in itself is incredibly good. It means any ghost type holding this can set-up for basically free, whether thats Sub NP Gholdengo, DD Pult, Ceruledge, Polteageist, Mimikyu, or Gengar. All of them can get a free setup against Garganacl because the moves it mainly runs are Salt Cure and Body Press, and if it starts using like Tera Ghost Tera Blast, well then they have to give up hazards, recovery, or body press, which means it would be easier to break down.
but do you know what else Covert Cloak prevents? Shadow Ball SpDef drops. Clodsire can feel SO much safer around Pult and Gholdengo if its holding a Cloak. No more getting SpDef dropped and now you are forced to switch because you can't tank Shadow Balls anymore. Hell no more random burns on fire moves or random paras on electric moves, no more random poisons on poison moves. No more flinches on your walls from a Kingambit Iron Head, no more getting slowed down by Brelooms Bulldoze or getting your special attack dropped by Hatterenes Mystical Fire. It makes me feel so much safer having the item, especially on mons that in the past normally had a revolving door of items because it doesn't need passive recovery like:
I bet if Scald burns were still around, Covert Cloak would be up there with items like HDB as good items to use, but even without scald burns there are still multiple reasons to use a Cloak for just that extra feeling of safety. Removing the pesky RNG that can plague your life the moment you see that Special Defensive drop kill your entire game. Give it some more love, and give your Clodsires a shifty little cloak to sneak around the darkness avoiding SpDef drops like its nothing.
Amoonguss @ Rocky Helmet
The Scald point is actually a valid one, for the record, I think we’re all thankful we don’t have to deal with that. Covert Cloak being niche doesn’t mean it isn’t worth using, it’s that it has an opportunity cost to use over items. Cloak can assist when it comes to Sball spam and the like, but choosing Cloak over Lefties/HDB is only a factor against those potential debuffs, not avoiding hazard damage or gaining passive recovery that let mons dodge these 2HKOs in the first place.
HDB does stop the other hazards, but.. if we're being honest? When you look at mons who are using HDB as their most common item, a pattern starts to emerge:
x2
x2
x4
x2
x2
x2Donbozo is 2HKO’d by Tera dark banded crunch whether that will be hazards or icicle crash beforehand, Skeledirge must have Tera’d beforehand to be able to switch into crunch. The priority users CANNOT risk switching in
This
While I do agree nasty plot gholdengho is an insane matchup vs any team that isn’t offense/hyper offense. I think it’s important to wait a bit to see if these teams can adapt. If we look at it, covert cloak (the real scary one) who can get free switches on garg, was kinda made to counterteam these garg balances that were being spammed. I’m more interested in the fact on how these teams will adapt to it. I’m already seeing some counterplay like haze clod and more. I do think we will eventually reach a point where gholdengo will get tested due to how restrictive it is though. But I don’t think there’s been enough time to say that it’s broken or something when teams haven’t adapted to it as much as I think they naturally will.
People should learn to stop grandstanding every time someone expresses valid concerns about the impacts a meta shift may have on a mon that is widely recognized as very overbearing and meta-shaping.
Learn to adapt to a mon 1-2 tapping every mon in format.
I've also seen multiple Water Absorb Clods, but strongly disagree with the idea. Maybe it works better as an implied bluff for Unaware? Not convinced. Clod is the only good Unaware mon we have on the SpD side, nullifying all Gholdengo sets (although can be awkward to have a 1v1 against Air Balloon Ghold with only Earthquake for offense, but that one's rarer nowadays) and stopping Volcarona, Skeledirge and even a set-up Espathra if Tera-Dark.
wow, rude. i mean, true, but rude
Will also add that I find those water absorb clods easier to kill with the right positioning w/np gholdengo. Still dont like to eat an earthquake on switch in but if you enter without taking damage theres not much the clod can do (or even worse if it's the one entering). Not sure if this is just from the players I'm playing against, but I did start to notice it
I've tried both abilities and agree with all this. Unaware Clod just does more. Being able to switch into NP Gholdengo and Skeledirge and not give a damn is huge. They can't do anything to you, and Skeledirge getting hit with toxic is rough for it
