Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

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Soiramio3000

Banned deucer.
Does anyone know why is toedscruel ranked c in the viability list?

Is its ability to put garganacl and gholdengo to sleep really that valuable?
 
lmfao. I loved watching that Slowking getting haxxed down. Like, at what point do you just say F it and hard switch? Also, what was that spread on Pachi to raw outpace Treads?
Just max speed! Nothing fancy, I'm sure there's a more optimal spread but this is what I've been running. Tera bug is there to boost u turns but I've never used it, I only really tera Garg or King on this team.

Pachirisu @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Nuzzle
- U-turn
- Super Fang
- Encore
 

awyp

'Alexa play Ladyfingers by Herb Alpert'
is a Forum Moderatoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Does anyone know why is toedscruel ranked c in the viability list?

Is its ability to put garganacl and gholdengo to sleep really that valuable?
C means it has value in the OU meta, it’s ability makes it C Tier. Has access to Rapid Spin, Knock Off and Spikes is a big deal but the drawback is it has no recovery move and it’s physical defense is lackluster.
 
oh boy ladies and gentlemen, it’s time for your daily dose of “thoroughly alright Pokémon”

Jolteon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind
- Volt Switch
I’ve been experimenting with this set, and honestly it’s not too bad. Jolteon is the 4th fastest Mon in the dex, and Tera ghost hits decently hard with shadow ball. I’d normally not resort to this, but this meta is starved of good electric types. Is it better than dragapult? Probably not, but give it a shot and tell me what you think
 

1LDK

Trial by fury
is a Top Team Rater
oh boy ladies and gentlemen, it’s time for your daily dose of “thoroughly alright Pokémon”

Jolteon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind
- Volt Switch
I’ve been experimenting with this set, and honestly it’s not too bad. Jolteon is the 4th fastest Mon in the dex, and Tera ghost hits decently hard with shadow ball. I’d normally not resort to this, but this meta is starved of good electric types. Is it better than dragapult? Probably not, but give it a shot and tell me what you think
Can you sell me on the combination of CM and Volt Switch? Isn't it kinda counterintuitive to run both?
 

1LDK

Trial by fury
is a Top Team Rater
not like if it had much else to run
Hyper Voice at least hits TIng Lu neutrally, which is much better than the other moves.
It has stuff like Yawn, Charm and Eerie Impulse/Fake Tears, the latter 2 lowers stats and the former is a 2 turn sleep, and generates a free switch for a teammate, although Rotom Wash could be better as an Eerie Impulse spammer (I swear to god this is useful), it has manual electric terrain for quark drive fun, and even stuff like Tickle if you want to use this alongside stuff like SD Chien Pao

I'm not saying this is gonna be like the next meta or something, but maybe I can have some fun after giving up on reqs (fuck gholdengo)
 
Hyper Voice at least hits TIng Lu neutrally, which is much better than the other moves.
I think that Jolteon is gonna be so bad vs Ting Lu anyway hyper voice probably does like 0 damage to the thing. I'm sure ppl have talked about tera ice tera blast jolteon (Predictions on Jolteon's tier this gen? Anyone? I personally feel like it could end up in a BL) but I could definitely see tera ghost being good for dirge and ghold
 
It has stuff like Yawn, Charm and Eerie Impulse/Fake Tears, the latter 2 lowers stats and the former is a 2 turn sleep, and generates a free switch for a teammate, although Rotom Wash could be better as an Eerie Impulse spammer (I swear to god this is useful), it has manual electric terrain for quark drive fun, and even stuff like Tickle if you want to use this alongside stuff like SD Chien Pao

I'm not saying this is gonna be like the next meta or something, but maybe I can have some fun after giving up on reqs (fuck gholdengo)
i've been playing a lot of randbats where yawn is a lot more common than it is in ou. i personally think it's massively underrated as a move—it's kind of astounding how annoying yawn can be and how much it can screw up your game plan, especially with proper hazard support—but it only really works on mons that are bulky enough to live several hits and don't normally force switch-outs, and it doesn't work in gen 9 ou in particular because two of the best mons in the tier are status absorbers
 

1LDK

Trial by fury
is a Top Team Rater
Honestly, since jolteon is naturally fast and outruns a lot, maybe you can use stuff like tera blast with stuff like tera steel to counter valiant, tera fire/fighting for cheems poo, tera dark for dragapult, tera fairy/water for tusk sounds like massive meme lures and im all for that

speaking of lures that are NOT FUN, Covert Cloak on like, anything, and I'm forced to switch out, and I basically give a free turn to something, and then I swept myself into the ground, and while anti-hax is cool, if I'm using Garganacl, is because i wanna use hax and unfair game mechanics, yes, that's right, I wanna ban garganacl because i wanna use hax!!!!

Fr tho, I really want a Garganacl suspect before an Espatra or a Gholdengo one, pretty please
 

viivian

flying through space
is a Tiering Contributor
Hyper Voice at least hits TIng Lu neutrally, which is much better than the other moves.
couldn't you could opt for tera blast ice? i don't see any merit in running tera ghost for it when jolteon would really benefit from additional coverage that terastallization could provide for it. and hyper voice is totally moot on it unless you run tera normal jolteon, which i wouldn't unless you really wanna mess with gholdengo

or you could use iron valiant if you want an electric type that sets up CM :totodiLUL:
 

Karxrida

Eventide (art by @kzhjp)
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
couldn't you could opt for tera blast ice? i don't see any merit in running tera ghost for it when jolteon would really benefit from additional coverage that terastallization could provide for it. and hyper voice is totally moot on it unless you run tera normal jolteon, which i wouldn't unless you really wanna mess with gholdengo
I concur with this, especially since the set is already running Boots. STAB on BoltBeam is quite nice and helps secure some KOs.

252 SpA Tera Ice Jolteon Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 384-452 (88.4 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

Hell, this might be a fun little lure.
 
couldn't you could opt for tera blast ice? i don't see any merit in running tera ghost for it when jolteon would really benefit from additional coverage that terastallization could provide for it. and hyper voice is totally moot on it unless you run tera normal jolteon, which i wouldn't unless you really wanna mess with gholdengo

or you could use iron valiant if you want an electric type that sets up CM :totodiLUL:
I mean tera ghost is useful for some things

252 SpA Tera Ghost Jolteon Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Skeledirge: 204-240 (49.6 - 58.3%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Tera Ghost Jolteon Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 294-348 (92.7 - 109.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO (I remember that time I used Jolteon in gen 8 OU and found out shadow ball is a 2HKO on dragapult not an OHKO like wtf how is that even possible 110 max investment anyway)

252 SpA Tera Ghost Jolteon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Ceruledge: 176-210 (49.7 - 59.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

Actually not that many, at least these are all guaranteed after rocks
 
what is everyone's opinions on rain at the moment? i've been spamming the golduck rain team that finch used a lil while ago since it's my fav offensive archetype and i've been having a good amount of success especially with the swift swim mons, especially golduck (though i feel like the defensive core could use some optimization). have you found rain teams that work better or do you not bother with rain at all atm for one reason or another?
 
what is everyone's opinions on rain at the moment? i've been spamming the golduck rain team that finch used a lil while ago since it's my fav offensive archetype and i've been having a good amount of success especially with the swift swim mons, especially golduck (though i feel like the defensive core could use some optimization). have you found rain teams that work better or do you not bother with rain at all atm for one reason or another?
Tried Rain once. Didn't work out very well for me, sadly. Rain feels like it might be in a weird spot right now... I might try to pick it up again at some point.
 

ant4456

I COULD BE BANNED!
In fairness, if Starmie taught me anything, it's that good typing and movepool can go a lot farther than stats in a defensive role. Heck, look at Clefable. That thing's stats are trash for a 3rd stage, but the right movepool and abilities like Unaware/Magic Guard kept it competently high on viability rankings since Gen 6, and even led to experimentation and success with it in Gen 4.

Tinkaton's defenses are about in line with the two I mentioned above or something like Klefki, it just is missing a few pieces it would clearly want in the OU environment (like a way to avoid total passivity on Steels), but has moves some mons would kill for like T-Wave and Encore on top of fantastic typing.
"Since Gen 6"

even in gen 4 clefable is dominant in OU, unless the meta has changed since i've last paid attention
 

ant4456

I COULD BE BANNED!
I mentioned the success in Gen 4, but my understanding is that came late if not after Gen 4 was the main Gen for competitive OU, and to acknowledge the lapse in Gen 5.
ah my b I misreaad

iirc it was actually because people saw Clefable succeed in Gen 6 that people decided to test it more in Gen 4, not the only case of that which is interesting
 
Tried Rain once. Didn't work out very well for me, sadly. Rain feels like it might be in a weird spot right now... I might try to pick it up again at some point.
I’ve been trying rain but I can’t seem to find a defensive core for it atm. I tried finch’s and even jamvad’s one lent by storm zone but it feels weird atm. I’ve tried pelipper, floatzel, iron treads and dragapult in that team when rain was picking up a trend. Tried amoonguss, iron jugulis, hydreigon, garganacl but I get mixed results. Only good results I’ve had was glimmora and Meowscarada but it feels weird to have 3 choiced users in a rain team but choice band works wonder with the cat and glimmora would have to be offensive since treads is the spinner. Not sure what else anyone has tried but I want to make rain work.
 

Soiramio3000

Banned deucer.
I noticed that dragonite and kingambit resist each other's weakeness except from the the fairy type(kingabit is neutral to it instead of resisting it).

does anyone know any movesets so I can combine these 2 as a core?
 
I’ve been trying rain but I can’t seem to find a defensive core for it atm. I tried finch’s and even jamvad’s one lent by storm zone but it feels weird atm. I’ve tried pelipper, floatzel, iron treads and dragapult in that team when rain was picking up a trend. Tried amoonguss, iron jugulis, hydreigon, garganacl but I get mixed results. Only good results I’ve had was glimmora and Meowscarada but it feels weird to have 3 choiced users in a rain team but choice band works wonder with the cat and glimmora would have to be offensive since treads is the spinner. Not sure what else anyone has tried but I want to make rain work.
interesting that you run glimmora and meowscarada, i like having the rest of my team more bulky and letting the swift swim users do the offensive work, but i feel like that's just personal preference. why do you prefer floatzel over barraskewda?

finding the right defensive core is my main struggle at the moment as well. finch's team (128 spdef pelipper, physdef tusk & amoonguss, av scizor) works pretty well for me but imo it somewhat struggles to absorb chien-pao hits and special attacks, and i have a hard time getting up hazards. i quickly threw together something yesterday with tauros-fire and spdef garg over tusk and scizor, but i haven't tested it out yet. also bulky kingambit looks promising to me.
 

SketchUp

Don't let your memes be dreams
I noticed there isn't a thread for underrated (/ creative) sets yet, so I'll just post it here. Rotom-W is in my opinion easily a top 10 mon in the tier at the moment. It consistently runs into favorable matchups as popular archetypes like bulky offense generally don't have great Wisp switchins and can't afford giving away too much momentum to Voltturn spam. The standard PDef set with Protect is the best fit for most teams, but I think there are two other amazing sets.

:rotom-wash:
Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 248 Def / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunder Wave

This is just the standard PDef set but with Thunder Wave over Protect. Protect is obviously great to get extra Leftovers recovery, get additional burn chip and to simply scout the opponent's sets, but I find it not as useful on teams without Great Tusk. Rotom-W is usually the early game pivot into opposing Great Tusk if you don't have a Great Tusk yourself, so in a lot of matchups you won't be playing with Leftovers. Protect is still a useful move from time to time but definitely less impactful without lefties recovery. Thunder Wave is a great alternative to cripple special attackers that are used to soak up the Will-o-Wisp like Iron Valiant and Dragapult and it's great as a last resort against set up sweepers like Volcarona, Espathra, and CM Valiant, although it's often necessary to use your Tera Steel. There are a few other minor advantages such as dealing with Tera 50/50s against the likes of Tera Fire Kingambit.

:rotom-wash:
Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Discharge
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot

Balance and bulky offense often resort to awkward pivotting to play around Wisp and Volt Switch and this set takes full advantage of that. Pokemon like Toxapex turn from a great switchin to standard PDef Rotom-W into setup fodder for SubNP Rotom-W. With the combination of Subsitute, Levitate, and Tera Ghost it also has a great 1v1 matchup against all Garganacl sets (Curse boosted Salt Cure breaks the Sub but Garg can't take a boosted Hydro Pump). I've tried playing around with a set of Nasty Plot, Thunder Wave, and Hex with Tera Ghost but it's very inconsistent and requires quite a lot of support. It's a fun set to use on mid ladder but I wouldn't recommend it personally.
 
I noticed that dragonite and kingambit resist each other's weakeness except from the the fairy type(kingabit is neutral to it instead of resisting it).

does anyone know any movesets so I can combine these 2 as a core?
I'd say the two of them would make better offensive than defensive partners, especially in HO. I unfortunately think that defensive Dragonite lost much of the novelty it had last gen. No Defog, no Urshifu-R, no Lando to abuse with Ice Beam, most of the rain abusers now having ice coverage and being generally outclassed as a Volcarona answer (by Skeledirge and Clodsider for example).

Edit:
Forgot also to mention the prominence of Chien-Pao, Iron Valiant, Roaring Moon, Dragapult and Rotom-W, along with most Knock Off users, who all scare Dragonite out.
 
Last edited:
I noticed there isn't a thread for underrated (/ creative) sets yet, so I'll just post it here. Rotom-W is in my opinion easily a top 10 mon in the tier at the moment. It consistently runs into favorable matchups as popular archetypes like bulky offense generally don't have great Wisp switchins and can't afford giving away too much momentum to Voltturn spam. The standard PDef set with Protect is the best fit for most teams, but I think there are two other amazing sets.

:rotom-wash:
Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 248 Def / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunder Wave

This is just the standard PDef set but with Thunder Wave over Protect. Protect is obviously great to get extra Leftovers recovery, get additional burn chip and to simply scout the opponent's sets, but I find it not as useful on teams without Great Tusk. Rotom-W is usually the early game pivot into opposing Great Tusk if you don't have a Great Tusk yourself, so in a lot of matchups you won't be playing with Leftovers. Protect is still a useful move from time to time but definitely less impactful without lefties recovery. Thunder Wave is a great alternative to cripple special attackers that are used to soak up the Will-o-Wisp like Iron Valiant and Dragapult and it's great as a last resort against set up sweepers like Volcarona, Espathra, and CM Valiant, although it's often necessary to use your Tera Steel. There are a few other minor advantages such as dealing with Tera 50/50s against the likes of Tera Fire Kingambit.

:rotom-wash:
Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Discharge
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot

Balance and bulky offense often resort to awkward pivotting to play around Wisp and Volt Switch and this set takes full advantage of that. Pokemon like Toxapex turn from a great switchin to standard PDef Rotom-W into setup fodder for SubNP Rotom-W. With the combination of Subsitute, Levitate, and Tera Ghost it also has a great 1v1 matchup against all Garganacl sets (Curse boosted Salt Cure breaks the Sub but Garg can't take a boosted Hydro Pump). I've tried playing around with a set of Nasty Plot, Thunder Wave, and Hex with Tera Ghost but it's very inconsistent and requires quite a lot of support. It's a fun set to use on mid ladder but I wouldn't recommend it personally.
1. TWave Washtom loses excessively hard to Water Absorb Clodsire/Storm Drain Gastro. You can't do anything to it at all, that's a good portion of why Wisp is better than TWave.
2. The offensive set was fairly common a while back. It's just that bulky Washtom was just... Better at its job, given that your offensive moves are pretty much limited to meh moves or Tbolt/Hydro Miss.
 
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