Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

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Quick not meta related question when exactly do the quickbans go into effect on showdown? On a gameplay related topic how exactly do you deal with Grimmsnarl screens offense teams? I'm low ladder and feel like I see it most games but I am not really sure what I should be doing/what is effective against the strategy.
 

Taka

I'm the truth only time will teach ya
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I wanna talk a bit about Iron Thorns real quick bc I think he's quite slept on:

:ss/iron thorns:
Iron Thorns @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock (this can be so much more! coverage out the ass, tera blast is nice too)

Water is just a generic defensive Tera that I used for the sake of resisting Jet Punch; other decent options ime include Flying (immune to EQs thrown at you, resist Mach Punch from Breloom which ime is a big danger for HO, neutral to a lot of other prio), Rock (haha stone edge go brr), Grass (good midground for resisting Jet Punch + Ground), but anyway I think this mon is really good on HO. You can say that about like all the paradox mons but shrug, I really wanna talk about how nuts this is though.

Nothing in SV OU really tanks these 2 moves at +2, p much everything that could got snapped; Toedscruel and Breloom are the only 2 mons that resist both and they both get wiped off the face of the earth:

+1 252 Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Breloom: 225-264 (86.2 - 101.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO (+1 + booster energy, dies guaranteed if ur rock tera obv)
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 96 Def Tentacruel: 233-274 (64 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge damage (idk if anyones running this mon or what spreads theyre running if so but ya not much chip required, dies if u rock tera, u wall it if grass tera, etc)

Its Speed tier is really nice, it's unfortunately slower than Chien-Pao even at +1 but these EVs let you outspeed Meowscarada at +1; you could go higher if Kilowattrel or Weavile end up being relevant but I don't see either happening (assuming Chien-Pao stays in the tier that is). Obviously after a DD you just kinda obliterate shit, like a lot of the mons ppl use to "check" this are just not answers at all lol, for example:

+1 252 Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Iron Treads: 428-504 (111.4 - 131.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 452-532 (104.6 - 123.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 374-442 (93.5 - 110.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 261-308 (73.1 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

It's not perfect obvs, you're walled pretty hard by Quagsire unless you're Ground Tera (or Grass Tera Blast) and stuff like Hippo can soft check, but being super bulky & having overall solid coverage against everything while being so strong with Booster Energy and compressing the SR slot for HO makes this mon worth looking into imo.

Here's the 5 min team I built with it; I played like 5 games so I'm sure there's a ton I'm missing, but it was fun to mess around with and I won em all (albeit on very low ladder). https://pokepast.es/539113de37e88920 don't face breloom!

fun meta overall hoping it shapes up well :D
something very similar i want to bring up is this set under eterrain. though pinchurchin is kind of lackluster, dd tar with a grass tera + eterrain really lets you break past a lot of defensive cores, especially since wild charge is much more reliable and hits incredibly hard under terrain against corv/pex/mola teams
 
I think a Freeze-Dry Iron Bundle lead (that might not last long because it might get banned due to how insanely fast it is) could scare a Palafin Lead who thinks they can have a free switch at the start of the game to get their win condition set up
i'm extremely late to this but this is true! I use Agility Water-Tera Iron Bundle, and it works wonders against teams with Palafin leads. Booster Energy is set to give +SPA, and when Palafin decides to flip turn, Iron Bundle can freely set up an Agility and start sweeping. You can tera into water to resist Jet Punch to survive. Glimmora leads with FSash are annoying though but that's besides the point.
 

Taka

I'm the truth only time will teach ya
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you know whats the number one pokemon of all time though??? assault vest kingambit
unironically ran this a lot as my temporary flutter check (temporary bc it only beat booster energy sets occasionally and always lost to specs)
 
Don't really understand people calling for a Tera ban. Imagine throwing away the most interesting/fun mechanic pokémon has had in ages.

At least the quick bans this Gen make sense.
fun/interesting =/= broken. Tera may be broken only time will tell or if people alr figured it out then i guess soon via a test like dynamax went. Dynamax was fun, and banning a gen mechanic was smth that was an anti-ban argument but resulted in a 80%+ ban vote which is broken. Tera looks broken esp u can pick and choose what you counter and that is not exactly fun esp against an offensive team "Lol ur palafin can no longer reveneg the volcarona LMAO gets rekt and now you die" or "wow that calc shows that i live this hit... well never mind i just died to a tera stab attack" that just doesnt sound balanced
 

chimp

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Don't really understand people calling for a Tera ban. Imagine throwing away the most interesting/fun mechanic pokémon has had in ages.

At least the quick bans this Gen make sense.
The role of this website in regards to OU isnt to decide what is fun and what isn’t. We ban broken things. If banning Tera makes the game less fun for you specifically then play in a format that allows it.
 
OK but hear me out:

:ss/lucario:

Lucario @ Focus Sash

Ability: Inner Focus

Tera Type: Fighting

EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Timid Nature

IVs: 0 Atk

- Nasty Plot

- Vacuum Wave

- Aura Sphere

- Flash Cannon

Everyone's bitching about Chien-Pao and Iron Bundle, right? Both of them happen to have pitiful special bulk, and here's a Pokémon with special super-effective STAB priority to take advantage of that. Obviously getting it in is the hard part, especially if there are hazards on the field, but it's a neat check nonetheless.



But yeah Iron Bundle and Chien-Pao are low-key kinda nutty and should probably be next on the chopping block.
 

BeeOrSomething

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A post about sun
:ss/torkoal:

Been having a lot of fun and success using mons like flutter mane (before it was banned), roaring moon, great tusk, chi-yu slither wing, dragapult (replacement for flutter mane), gastrodon, blissey, corviknight, and scovillain. Gonna write a short bit about each mon, except flutter mane because it already got banned lmao.

Torkoal
With its great phys def and utility movepool consisting of stealth rock, rapid spin, lava plume, will-o-wisp, and even solar beam, torkoal makes for a great sun setter than can lead and set up its teammates or switch out to reset the sun later on.

Chi-Yu
Extremely good under sun with choice scarf or specs, though personally only used scarf. Either way, still been amazing. With beads of ruin, the sun boost, and potentially tera fire, I often find overheat and flamethrower so strong I don't even need to click dark pulse. I use memento in the last because it has a pretty shallow movepool and it can be nice to use in late game situations where chi-yu can't do much anymore or you want to set up something like dd roaring moon.

Roaring Moon
Speaking of, gonna keep this one short, if you want to see more read my post about it: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ou-metagame-discussion-see-post-163.3710915/post-9405053
Essentially, already amazing pokemon, put it under sun where you can activate protosynthesis without needing booster energy (though still recommended to use for when sun goes down) and get a great supporting cast of fellow sun abusers, and moon becomes even better.

Great Tusk
Similar to roaring moon, read my post about it for more: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/great-tusk.3711059/
Basically, already extremely threatening with rapid spin, its stats, its stabs, and its coverage, and throw on sun giving a choice band boost while also being able to run a different item than booster energy, and great tusk becomes insanely effective, especially now with flutter mane gone.

Slither Wing
One of the better switches to great tusk, though admittedly still shaky because you need to invest a lot in phys def to make it safe for more than 1 or 2 switches, which can come at the cost of attack or speed. Sun gives it a protosynthesis attack boost and increases the power of flame charge/flare blitz if it has either, and stab first impression, close combat, and the potential for u-turn and will-o-wisp make it a very nice utility attacker mon, especially with flutter mane gone.

Dragapult
I seriously expect this thing to become top tier OU now that its main competition and revenge killer, flutter mane, has been axed. It can run specs or dd, both with ghost tera, and both very effective. Lot of potential in this tier, though it has problems with sucker punch and depending on the set corviknight or blissey.

Gastrodon
Used this on every sun team I've built, very solid blanket check to quite a few physical attackers, electric and water immune, and sets spikes. Quite a nice utility mon.

Blissey
You know what this thing does. Twave, soft boiled, seismic toss, and uuhhhh some last move. Probably rocks to free up solar beam on torkoal since you don't need shadow ball for flutter mane.

Corviknight
With maximum physical defense, corviknight is a great blanket check to many physical attackers, including broken moon (if it choose steel tera instead of flying or poison). Also a very nice pivot and hazard clearer with u-turn and defog.

Scovillain
With its fire stab being boosted by sun, chlorophyll, potentially solar beam, life orb, and a coverage last move or two, scovillain can make for a very nice but very frail wallbreaker/revenge killer/sweeper, even better now that the houndstone ban will likely make sand a lot worse and flutter mane being gone removing a common revenge killer for scovillain.

All in all sun is very, very good in this meta as torkoal itself is a nice utility mon and the sun it sets up facilitates a lot of mons nicely, and unlike a lot of other very offensive styles, sun has plenty of room for a good defensive backbone.
1669004587902.png
 
I think flutter mane should go, but not houndstone
sure it’s fluffy set is good I don’t think it’s good enough to get banNed tho
if your gonna ban houndstone you might aswell Ban kingambit
 
I personally people are sleeping on Anahilape. Ghost/Fighting is amazing dual typing that hits everything for at least neutral damage. Rage Fist works really well with a bulky set (HP & SpDef investment, Bulk Up+ Drain Punch, leftovers). Being able to build up Rage Fist & recovering HP with Drain Punch + Bulk up is so good. The move can be a support move (Encore, Stealth Rocks, Taunt).
 

Attachments

VIABILITY LIST IS UP!!!

Much like last generation, we want to get something out ASAP so that everyone has a list for discussion, building, and so on. Please keep in mind it is very tentative and subject to change (much like the constantly evolving metagame in its infancy).
Putting Brute Bonnet on the list feels like a stretch.

As for old Pokemon, the only one that stuck out to me as missing was Pincurchin.
 

Finchinator

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Putting Brute Bonnet on the list feels like a stretch.

As for old Pokemon, the only one that stuck out to me as missing was Pincurchin.
see the part about this being tentative and loose was not an invitation for people to use this thread to suggest changes -- this is not the vr thread and there will not be one until rankings actually are out as opposed to just the list

thanks for the input though, i do appreciate the intent! this thread is still predominantly for the topic of metagame discussion rather than VR related matters
 
VIABILITY LIST IS UP!!!

Much like last generation, we want to get something out ASAP so that everyone has a list for discussion, building, and so on. Please keep in mind it is very tentative and subject to change (much like the constantly evolving metagame in its infancy).
Probably Skeledirge is missing in the new mons.

His most common set look like this
Skeledirge Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
252 HP 252 Spdef
Careful Nature
-Torch Song
-Will o Wisp
-Hex
-Slack Off
 
As for viable returning Pokémon, :alomomola: is missing. Yes, it did lose some valuable moves such as Knock Off, Toxic, and Scald (fuck GF) but it is still viable on stall and some balance builds for fat Wishes. Not as good as Toxapex or Slowtwins but still has a valuable niche bolstered by the recovery changes.

Aqua Jet Pog (Alomomola) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Def / 216 SpD
Impish Nature
- Liquidation
- Wish
- Protect
- Aqua Jet

Special (Alomomola) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Def / 216 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Chilling Water/Surf
- Wish
- Protect
- Ice Beam

Edit: Be nice to Finch, it is necessary to get him to ban Toxapex
 
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