Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

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Honestly fuck Chien Pao and fuck the stupid ass ostrich, we're going back in time to get Weavile into OU.
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Oh man, is is Christmas in February? Pao AND Emu banned in the same evening!? It's like there IS a God (and it isn't Joey.)

Seeing that Chien-Pao ended with over 69% (nice) vote for ban shows that the majority of us in the community saw it as a problem. Seeing Espathra getting overwhelmingly banned across the board feels like absolute justice. Now matchup phishing will be minimized. c:

Just gotta watch for rogue Dragonites, and the looming threats of Great Tusk and Gholdengo.
 
Ctann said:
Un-Popular opinion:

I’m completely content with Tera , despite its perceived negative influence on the competitiveness of OU singles.

espathra would be less likely to be banned if the “Tera’s are shown at preview” condition was implemented
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Honestly, I agree, tera is fun, it's broken but fun, and I want a tera suspect to way loooong after the HOME, for at least to see what the usual mons are into you know? im not opposed to it, but please wait

and please ungarga the nacl
 
UnusualBoy said:
Finally we won’t get 9392828384 posts of people complaining about Pao or Pathra. Now we’ll just deal with the posts about Garganacci and Gholdy.
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Well people say the meta is more playable with pao and pathra banned. Let’s hope no mind is changed in the next few weeks lol. As for me, orthworm+polteageist :P
 
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I'm honestly incredibly excited for all the meta changes that could come from this. So many interesting other mons are more useable now, including the above Wo-Chien. It still has problems of course, but now it's not an automatic 5v6 to try it out.

As more and more people feel the teambuilding pressure come off too, I'm curious to see if Garg still remains on the radar at all. I still firmly believe in my ladder experiences that it is perfectly fine, a healthy addition, and does incur a large opportunity cost since it's almost always your Tera target. Even in a couple of weeks, people have learned how to counter common Garg sets, and then Garg adapts in kind. It's an interesting dynamic, but nothing new.

In all, I think we are far closer to a balanced pre-Home OU. May even be there now if I'm being honest. I'm tickled. What an amazing weekend!
 
Few friends have asked the following: "why cant we just complex ban speed boost on only Espathra? It still has two other abilities, if it's speed boost that makes it broken then just get rid of that ability on that singular mon."

Wanted to know reasons for this not being an option other than "complex bans bad"
 
Ctann said:
Un-Popular opinion:

I’m completely content with Tera , despite its perceived negative influence on the competitiveness of OU singles.

espathra would be less likely to be banned if the “Tera’s are shown at preview” condition was implemented
Click to expand...
100%. glad people have had a chance to play w it and adjust, because as far as generational gimmicks go, tera has been fun, unique, and competitive. it’s a great mesh of unpredictability and creativity without resorting to rng. there’s definitely a learning curve, but all the decisions are in the hands of the players.

will it push some mons like espathra over the edge and break them? sure, but with this latest round, it feels like the remaining OU mons use it healthily (at least healthier). I’ve really enjoyed the added layer of building and battling, personally.
 
Timboberino said:
Few friends have asked the following: "why cant we just complex ban speed boost on only Espathra? It still has two other abilities, if it's speed boost that makes it broken then just get rid of that ability on that singular mon."

Wanted to know reasons for this not being an option other than "complex bans bad"
Click to expand...

Part of the reason complex bans are avoided is because it opens up the slippery slope to micromanaging the metagame every time something becomes OP. Do we ban Chi-Yu or Overheat just to see if it's balanced without it? If that doesn't work, why not try removing Dark Pulse or Flamethrower from it? It's simpler to just ban the Pokemon and take the 1 Pokemon loss in diversity within a tier to not open that can of worms.
 
Timboberino said:
Few friends have asked the following: "why cant we just complex ban speed boost on only Espathra? It still has two other abilities, if it's speed boost that makes it broken then just get rid of that ability on that singular mon."

Wanted to know reasons for this not being an option other than "complex bans bad"
Click to expand...
This may just boil down to "complex bans bad" but a big reason why they're bad is because they're... well... complex. Imagine a banlist full of asterisks specifying which things are banned in conjunction with which other things and on which mons specifically. It'd be a nightmare to untangle. It's so much cleaner to just have a banlist that's "These mons are banned. This small handful of abilities, moves, and items are banned across the board. That's it."
 
Timboberino said:
Few friends have asked the following: "why cant we just complex ban speed boost on only Espathra? It still has two other abilities, if it's speed boost that makes it broken then just get rid of that ability on that singular mon."

Wanted to know reasons for this not being an option other than "complex bans bad"
Click to expand...
For that exact reason, cause complex bans should be avoided. Otherwise we'd have an argument to complex ban Salt Cure for Garg, ban Rage Fist for Annihilape, Shed Tail for Cyclizar and any other possibly broken thing in a mon that could use some balancing. We'd have no reason to limit a complex ban to only Espathra, and we'd soon start arguing over anything.
 
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Seth Vilo said:
View attachment 491360

I'm honestly incredibly excited for all the meta changes that could come from this. So many interesting other mons are more useable now, including the above Wo-Chien. It still has problems of course, but now it's not an automatic 5v6 to try it out.

As more and more people feel the teambuilding pressure come off too, I'm curious to see if Garg still remains on the radar at all. I still firmly believe in my ladder experiences that it is perfectly fine, a healthy addition, and does incur a large opportunity cost since it's almost always your Tera target. Even in a couple of weeks, people have learned how to counter common Garg sets, and then Garg adapts in kind. It's an interesting dynamic, but nothing new.

In all, I think we are far closer to a balanced pre-Home OU. May even be there now if I'm being honest. I'm tickled. What an amazing weekend!
Click to expand...


Whoa

Chien


I’m hype for this metagame, almost every issue I had with the metagame has just been axed, this looks great
 
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